Rage vs vengeance for dmg and PvP

[Dkrewe]

So I am looking at the two trees.....and I see great abilities in both. The Vengeance tree has Unstoppable to use with Force charge, and Rage gets Obliterate and a buffed up (uninterruptable) Force Choke so it has 2 gap closers (granted Obliterate is only 10m but it also gives a slight speed boost). The finisher for Vengeance hits harder but the Rage one is DoT and incorporates a snare.

 

Have many Juggernauts out there tested these two specs that could speak of the differences between these two trees? I am looking at mainly PvP because that has always been my passion but of course PvE will be needed as well for a dps role.

 

Thanks in advance for any insight from other warriors!!

[Noth]

Vengeance's top talent is a dot as well.

[Vaele]

So far (level 27) my findings have been that "Force" associated abilities are great in PvP, and the Rage tree improves greatly upon force attacks.

 

Force Choke is great in pvp, so is Scream, Smash, Push etc.

 

-3 sec CD on every force associated ability is great. (Although it does not remove 3 sec CD from Force Charge, bug?)

 

On top of the -3 sec CD, force choke also gets -10 sec CD from Ravager.

 

Obliterate is also great, and I don't even have the +40% speed boost yet. Worth mentioning about Obliterate is that 10 meter range is enough to jump up a "level" on Huttball.

 

I haven't tried vengeance for awhile now though, but I think Vengeance needs impale before it starts to shine damage-wise. But at the time I can get Impale, I've already gotten Shockwave and Dominate from the Rage tree, which are absolutely awesome.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Vaele

[BlobbMonster]

Rage is best for PvP. Vengeance is probably a bit better in PvE but IMHO Rage > Vengeance.

[Lord_Itharius]

I'm using rage, and obliterate never, EVER gets old. I'll miss it so much if I go vengeance

[Nanotech]

I prefer Vengeance in PvP (@level 23). I don't know why people act like Veng is a PvE spec when it CLEARLY has SEVERAL strong PvP talents. Unstoppable might be the best PvP talent in the Jugg's entire arsenal and Shien Form > Shii-Cho, imo. If you want raw damage and unhindered movement in PvP, you can't beat Veng. Edited December 19, 2011 by Nanotech

[Dharagada]

I prefer Vengeance in PvP (@level 23). I don't know why people act like Veng is a PvE spec when it clearly has SEVERAL strong PvP talents. Unstoppable might be the best PvP talent in the Jugg's entire arsenal and Shien Form > Shii-Cho, imo. If you want raw damage in PvP, you can't beat Veng.

 

The reason is due to the burstier nature of the Rage tree especially at higher levels. You can put out very decent damage (and aoe damage at that) with Smash when rage is fully decked out.

 

I'll admit though Vengeance seems like it would be the better tree in terms of survivability, I would love to get unstoppable in the rage tree.

[Nanotech]

The reason is due to the burstier nature of the Rage tree especially at higher levels. You can put out very decent damage (and aoe damage at that) with Smash when rage is fully decked out.

 

I'll admit though Vengeance seems like it would be the better tree in terms of survivability, I would love to get unstoppable in the rage tree.

 

One of the biggest problems I see with Rage is the emphasis on Force abilities. We have fewer Force abilities than melee abilities and Vengeance supports that. I haven't played either specs at "high" levels yet, but judging by the talent trees, I don't see how Rage will ultimately be "burstier" than Vengeance. Impale has a higher base damage value than Obliterate. Shatter comes close with a HUGE dot attached to it. The 60% bonus to crit chance w/ Force Scream after the fact cannot be denied either. Combine this with higher raw damage, dot effects for extra damage, and a lot of unhindered movement: I don't think i'll be respec'ing.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Nanotech

[Dharagada]

One of the biggest problems I see with Rage is the emphasis on Force abilities. We have fewer Force abilities than melee abilities and Vengeance supports that. I haven't played either specs at "high" levels yet, but judging by the talent trees, I don't see how Rage will ultimately be "burstier" than Vengeance. Impale has a higher base damage value than Obliterate. Shatter comes close with a HUGE dot attached to it. The 60% bonus to crit chance w/ Force Scream after the fact cannot be denied either. Combine this with higher raw damage, dot effects for extra damage, and unhindered movement: I don't think i'll be respec'ing.

 

Again it's primarily about the smash and how strong it becomes as you go up the rage tree (with points in decimate).

 

It goes from a 15 second cool down to a 9 second cool down, it becomes an auto crit after each obliterate. It gains damage bonuses and crit bonuses from several abilities in the rage tree (that also improve Force Scream, choke and crush), and then there's shockwave which turns smash into a monster.

 

Then throw in the fact that Smash is an aoe attack.

 

Chances are good that in strict single target damage vengeance would probably win, but Rage probably not as far behind as you would think and probably can do more AoE wise (course I'm just guessing this hard to tell for sure).

 

Course one could argue that the AoE damage isn't that valuable (other than making you look good on a score board) and that it's the ability to "assassinate" your target and self preservation that is more important and it's very possible that Vengeance is the best at these.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Dharagada

[Nanotech]

Again it's primarily about the smash and how strong it becomes as you go up the rage tree (with points in decimate).

 

It goes from a 15 second cool down to a 9 second cool down, it becomes an auto crit after each obliterate. It gains damage bonuses and crit bonuses from several abilities in the rage tree (that also improve Force Scream, choke and crush), and then there's shockwave which turns smash into a monster.

 

Then throw in the fact that Smash is an aoe attack.

 

Chances are good that in strict single target damage vengeance would probably win, but Rage probably not as far behind as you would think and probably can do more AoE wise (course I'm just guessing this hard to tell for sure).

 

Course one could argue that the AoE damage isn't that valuable (other than making you look good on a score board) and that it's the ability to "assassinate" your target and self preservation that is more important and it's very possible that Vengeance is the best at these.

 

Right, I understand, but Veng also gets a few abilities that enhance Smash and Smash is one of only a few Force abilities. AoE or Single-Target: I just can't get behind a spec that only supports a handful of attacks (or in-regards to your argument, mainly one). And that's essentially what Rage does (from a dps-standpoint).

Edited December 19, 2011 by Nanotech

[ururururu]

for you 40+, which one has more ideal burst, and which one has more consistent burst?

 

I'm too low level to comment but I'm curious about this.

[Lord_Itharius]

for you 40+, which one has more ideal burst, and which one has more consistent burst?

 

I'm too low level to comment but I'm curious about this.

 

Dunno what you mean by "ideal burst" versus "consistent burst."

 

Vengeance is more consistent damage and has a dot component. Rage is very erratic burst with periods of decreased damage between cooldowns.