AP Better than Pyro for Ranked!

[TheOpf]

Some of my highest damage games are losses too. I can't say getting huge numbers wins games, but i can say that the reason why i lost the game that i did 950k damage on novarre coast was due to my team having crappy pugs. There are so many factors that come in to winning games and as long as you are doing your job as a powertech you should be satisfied. If you are doing 700k in ranked (this is about my average in a full length warzone against a good team) and your team is losing consistently, get a new team.

 

And also i disagree with your comment about dps assassins being the best dps class. Maybe ive just never seen any good ones but i think pyrotechs have better burst thats more sustainable over long fights AND are harder to kill. Pyrotech is king right now.

 

Pyrotech's are only hard to kill because most people have no clue how to cleanse and stun properly. As a dirty fighting scoundrel, Pyrotech's are my favorite guys to kill. Cleanse, shield during td, stun after Rocket punch, and boom they die.

 

I have and still believe it's true all three powertechs are extremely viable in ranked right now. The problem most teams face is a lack of cleanse communication and learning to hard counter them. Everyone hard counters snipers and mercs because if you don't they are the most powerful classes in the game hands down. Two of the top damage dealers on the Bastion are an arsenal commando and a lethality sniper. They easily clear 500k regularly according the high level ranked guys I know.

 

Assault/Pyro - easy to kill, split up their burst and they are wet noodles, hated by lightsaber fanatics because if you don't keep those dot's cleansed they can rip you.

 

AP - steady damage makes it easy to heal through. Strong on return damage hated by any ranged with a knockback.

 

Tank - Lack of stuns make it the least desired tank, but it's a pain in the arse to kill and easily one of the top damage tanks out there now. I have seen one hit 200k damage and 120k protection.

[lolcthulhu]

As a dirty fighting scoundrel, Pyrotech's are my favorite guys to kill. Cleanse, shield during td, stun after Rocket punch, and boom they die.

 

Stun after rocket punch? lol Why is that the best time to stun? Scoundrels and Operatives are actually my favorite class to hunt down too as a matter of fact. Evasion, cleansing dots, shield probe, these things are minor compared to other classes imo. Sorry though, i'm getting off subject.

[T-Assassin]

Stun after rocket punch? lol Why is that the best time to stun? Scoundrels and Operatives are actually my favorite class to hunt down too as a matter of fact. Evasion, cleansing dots, shield probe, these things are minor compared to other classes imo. Sorry though, i'm getting off subject.

 

 

 

because it procs a free RS, thusly, stopping the PT's burst potential. (listen for the laugh)

 

this is why u see all the nerf PT/VG dumb *** threads...

 

as a merc, lol yes...merc/PT, i DESTROY PT/VG's...cleanse, keep >10m...

 

if they get on me, when all my CD's are down (which is very rare, i only use ED, CM, JB when NEEDED) they'll rip me a new one...(i also have a VG, which i melt newbs all day...smart players, much more challenging..especially, good kiters)

 

but, that would be my own damn fault...

 

never stun first, they only have 2 real CC abilities...(snare is weak at best)

 

OT: any well played AC has a role...i saw a VG/tactics thwart our HB team several times due to the HO and the shortened grapple...and i did 560k and was 56-2...he changed the game.

 

then, the s.o.b. was in a NC...and we couldn't get a cap, cuz of his mobility node to node...(they were obviously communicating in VC, i was puggin).

 

u want a utility player...dps tanksin or VG/PT tac/AS.

Edited July 6, 2012 by T-Assassin

[lolcthulhu]

 

 

 

because it procs a free RS, thusly, stopping the PT's burst potential. (listen for the laugh)

 

this is why u see all the nerf PT/VG dumb *** threads...

 

as a merc, lol yes...merc/PT, i DESTROY PT/VG's...cleanse, keep >10m...

 

if they get on me, when all my CD's are down (which is very rare, i only use ED, CM, JB when NEEDED) they'll rip me a new one...(i also have a VG, which i melt newbs all day...smart players, much more challenging..especially, good kiters)

 

but, that would be my own damn fault...

 

never stun first, they only have 2 real CC abilities...(snare is weak at best)

 

OT: any well played AC has a role...i saw a VG/tactics thwart our HB team several times due to the HO and the shortened grapple...and i did 560k and was 56-2...he changed the game.

 

then, the s.o.b. was in a NC...and we couldn't get a cap, cuz of his mobility node to node...(they were obviously communicating in VC, i was puggin).

 

u want a utility player...dps tanksin or VG/PT tac/AS.

 

Not really in a mood to compare meta strategies between classes, just know 1v1s are like a chess game and any move a class makes powertechs have a counter for. Flame burst reapplies the dot instantly and unlike cleanse its not on a cooldown. You waste your global on cleanse and i'll waste mine on another flame burst, for example.

That being said, the only class that really counters pyrotechs is marauder.

 

Also other classes have better utility than AP powertechs, so like i said in my original post i think people shoud play to their classes strengths. You want to play a utility class roll a tankassin.

Edited July 6, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[TheOpf]

Not really in a mood to compare meta strategies between classes, just know 1v1s are like a chess game and any move a class makes powertechs have a counter for. Flame burst reapplies the dot instantly and unlike cleanse its not on a cooldown. You waste your global on cleanse and i'll waste mine on another flame burst, for example.

That being said, the only class that really counters pyrotechs is marauder.

 

Also other classes have better utility than AP powertechs, so like i said in my original post i think people shoud play to their classes strengths. You want to play a utility class roll a tankassin.

 

I don't think there is a class that combines output and utility like the AP can. I agree with the above poster our best node defender, and node preventer is the Tactics guy on our team. The rest of us can be slowed, he can pop Htl and keep going. his faster grapples make him better at peeling off our healers than pyro guys, and I have yet to meet a pyro that I don't have to go um can we taunt more.

 

The reason you stun after RP is to prevent the stupid TD/RS/RP/RS burst from blowing you up. It buys you and your healer a few seconds. Assault is easily countered if played right. BTW, If I kite you at over 10m you can't reapply the dot. Like I said, I would rather face assault than ap any day. AP doesn't scare you, but you can't hard counter them like you can an assault, they don't die easily, and only their railshot which they rarely use is mitigated.

 

I just finished a Huttball. I have 3 piece WH a BM gun and everything else recruit. I racked up 363k damage, had 13 kills (really poor, but the team had 4 healers) which horribly led the team. 6 of those kills were Pyro's who tried to solo me. I have played a pt for a long time. I know the sounds, the hand motions, and the moves they like to make. Pyro/Assault is not hard to counter, but they are a pain if you don't cleanse and stun at the right time.

 

Heck when my cc was down or they had one other help I got roasted.

 

One last note, I would rather have a Pyro hitting me with Ion pulse to reapply their dot than having them hit me with a Rail Shot. A railshot every 9 seconds hurts less than 2 railshots in 9 seconds.

Edited July 6, 2012 by TheOpf

[lolcthulhu]

I don't think there is a class that combines output and utility like the AP can. I agree with the above poster our best node defender, and node preventer is the Tactics guy on our team. The rest of us can be slowed, he can pop Htl and keep going. his faster grapples make him better at peeling off our healers than pyro guys, and I have yet to meet a pyro that I don't have to go um can we taunt more.

 

The reason you stun after RP is to prevent the stupid TD/RS/RP/RS burst from blowing you up. It buys you and your healer a few seconds. Assault is easily countered if played right. BTW, If I kite you at over 10m you can't reapply the dot. Like I said, I would rather face assault than ap any day. AP doesn't scare you, but you can't hard counter them like you can an assault, they don't die easily, and only their railshot which they rarely use is mitigated.

 

I just finished a Huttball. I have 3 piece WH a BM gun and everything else recruit. I racked up 363k damage, had 13 kills (really poor, but the team had 4 healers) which horribly led the team. 6 of those kills were Pyro's who tried to solo me. I have played a pt for a long time. I know the sounds, the hand motions, and the moves they like to make. Pyro/Assault is not hard to counter, but they are a pain if you don't cleanse and stun at the right time.

 

Heck when my cc was down or they had one other help I got roasted.

 

One last note, I would rather have a Pyro hitting me with Ion pulse to reapply their dot than having them hit me with a Rail Shot. A railshot every 9 seconds hurts less than 2 railshots in 9 seconds.

 

SCENARIO: Operative opens on Pyrotech. Pyrotech does his rotation, gets to rocket punch and gets stunned. Pyrotech breaks the stun and is now white bar'd (opener + stun = white bar) Operative is now screwed and must vanish or die. Pyrotech knows this and puts stealth scan down infront of Operative. Operative is dead.

 

You must just be fighting bad pyrotechs i guess. A cleanse isnt going to negate a railshot. If railshot is ready to be used then they shouldnt be using flame burst at all (resetting that move is a huge dps loss), that's what incendiary missile(30 meter range by the way) is for right? Maybe everyone on my server is just horrible but from what i've seen personally, you cant stop a pyrotech unless you kill it. Theres no evidence to show that pyrotech is any easier to kill then AP by the way.. unless you're using ion cylinder? Energy rebounder from pyrotech's tree brings your shield up twice as fast as the other trees so if anything pyrotech is harder to kill in warzones, especially in ranked.

 

My team doesn't stick powertechs on nodes regardless of their spec. We actually had a guy playing AP for a little while just for ***** and giggles but he was getting so outplayed by everyone on the team (getting out damaged by our tank assassins who put up 500k+ sometimes) he switched back to pyro.

 

Heres the list of classes that you should have solo guarding your off nodes > > > > Tank Juggernauts Tank Assassins Operatives

Maybe a FULL tank powertech but honestly having one of those on the team still seems like a waste to me when they could be pyro and melting people instead. Anyone else shouldnt be there, and honestly i prefer to have a stealther over a tank jugg simply because they have a lower chance of getting "sap capped" by two stealthers that work together.

Edited July 6, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[TheOpf]

SCENARIO: Operative opens on Pyrotech. Pyrotech does his rotation, gets to rocket punch and gets stunned. Pyrotech breaks the stun and is now white bar'd (opener + stun = white bar) Operative is now screwed and must vanish or die. Pyrotech knows this and puts stealth scan down infront of Operative. Operative is dead.

 

You play with some bad operatives. First off, you completely ignored my entire post. I am Dirty Fighting Scoundrel. I have no idea why you would be white barred so soon. I want you to break the first stun, because now I am over 10m away and kiting you.

 

You must just be fighting bad pyrotechs i guess. A cleanse isnt going to negate a railshot. If railshot is ready to be used then they shouldnt be using flame burst at all (resetting that move is a huge dps loss), that's what incendiary missile(30 meter range by the way) is for right?

75 percent of all PT's will never waste the energy on IM unless over 30m. If they want to hit me from 30m away with that dot, fantastic! Cleanse and then when they get close to pop FB, I will cleanse the dot again. No dot means you have to keep dotting me. If my cleanse is down, I am going to break your damage up, by stunning, or Mez.

 

Maybe everyone on my server is just horrible but from what i've seen personally, you cant stop a pyrotech unless you kill it. Theres no evidence to show that pyrotech is any easier to kill then AP by the way.. unless you're using ion cylinder? Energy rebounder from pyrotech's tree brings your shield up twice as fast as the other trees so if anything pyrotech is harder to kill in warzones, especially in ranked.

 

Every Tactics/AP specs into damage reduction and 20 percent less damage when stunned. Those are huge. A PT is like a Mara with worse defensive cooldown, you catch them, and they will die.

 

My team doesn't stick powertechs on nodes regardless of their spec. We actually had a guy playing AP for a little while just for ***** and giggles but he was getting so outplayed by everyone on the team (getting out damaged by our tank assassins who put up 500k+ sometimes) he switched back to pyro.

 

AP is so completely different than Pyro. This is why people hate AP and AP players. Every Pyro who trys to go AP sucks at it for at least a week, because you have to unlearn every bad habit you ever had as a pyro. It's like the difference between dirty fighting and scrapper except more extreme. If he wasn't breaking 500k as AP he wasn't playing it right. I love when guys who play AP for like 3 WZ's suddenly think they know how to play it. This is why we get pyro is OP and AP sucks threads, because people who can't play them talk about them.

 

Heres the list of classes that you should have solo guarding your off nodes > > > > Tank Juggernauts Tank Assassins Operatives

Maybe a FULL tank powertech but honestly having one of those on the team still seems like a waste to me when they could be pyro and melting people instead. Anyone else shouldnt be there, and honestly i prefer to have a stealther over a tank jugg simply because they have a lower chance of getting "sap capped" by two stealthers that work together.

 

Your bias is evident. You have no ability to think outside of what someone told you. I am sure you think Mercs/Commandos are awful, sages can't dps, that the nerfs to tankassins broke them, juggernaughts are broken dps, mara's are unkillable, Pyro Powertechs are over powered, and any operative outside of a healer is broken. All of those are common misnomers and hilarious bad mistruths spread by those who can't play and have no clue how to play those classes.

 

I know guilds who have 2200 rankings who run two tank pt's. They are extremely tough to kill. I prefer Juggernaughts because they have crazy stuns, and assassins because they can stealth.

 

Finally, every single operative hearing this statement just laughed outloud. Guarding a node to perhaps the squishiest class out there? yeah that's brilliant. I give you the tankassins and the tank Juggernaughts. I would never keep a tank on a node though, I find their guard too valuable. Keeping an AP on a node is a great idea, and like the other poster stated, a well played AP is the best cap stopper in the game outside of a tankassin

[lolcthulhu]

The best cap stopper isnt very good if its dead. I was just going thru my server forums and I realized you are posting there too. Are you on Jung Ma? "Knowing 2200 rated teams" Is different then being on one. All you said is "cleanse cleanse cleanse" and thats how you're going to kill me, you should give it a try lol. Tank Powertechs are viable and hard to kill but lack the dps and utility that tank assassins have, which is why i said they are better suited as dps. You just seem inexperienced is all i'm trying to say. I'm not talking about viability i'm talking about optimization.

 

Please get back to me with whether or not you're on Jung Ma, i'd like to set up some experiments with you.

 

p.s. Operatives are great at stopping caps until backup arrives, it seems like you are the one who cant think outside of the box

Edited July 6, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[lolcthulhu]

You play with some bad operatives. First off, you completely ignored my entire post. I am Dirty Fighting Scoundrel. I have no idea why you would be white barred so soon. I want you to break the first stun, because now I am over 10m away and kiting you.

 

I play empire, i was under the impression that dirty fighting = concealment but it seems im mistaken. I've already said having imaginary 1v1's is pointless on the forums in a previous post, i was just trying to make a point with why stunning after rocket punch doesnt make a huge difference. You seem very hard headed and maybe I am too, so it seems the only way one of us will get our point across is if we 1v1. Did you move to the Bastion yet or are you still on Jung Ma?

[lolcthulhu]

This is my last post on this subject as I feel like im starting to repeat myself. Advanced Prototype gives you more utility but not enough utility to let you compete with the other classes in that field. Pyrotech does the most damage out of any class in the game right now except for maybe an amazing sniper. If you want to play your class to its fullest play pyrotech, if you want to play AP then know you're missing out on BURST and overall damage. /rant

[TheOpf]

The best cap stopper isnt very good if its dead. I just was going thru my server forums and I realized you are posting there too. Are you on Jung Ma? "Knowing 2200 rated teams" Is different then being on one. All you said is "cleanse cleanse cleanse" and thats how you're going to kill me, you should give it a try lol. Tank Powertechs are viable and hard to kill but lack the dps and utility that tank assassins have, which is why i said they are better suited as dps. You just seem inexperienced is all i'm trying to say. I'm not talking about viability i'm talking about optimization.

 

Please get back to me with whether or not you're on Jung Ma, i'd like to set up some experiments with you.

 

p.s. Operatives are great at stopping caps until backup arrives, it seems like you are the one who cant think outside of the box

 

Heh, I was until they opened the transfer to Bastion. I know about Jung Ma there are only two 2200 teams right? Their pre-50 pvp was awful, my guild had rerolled and ended up hating Jung Ma. It was either saddled with 4 sub 50k damage guys or rolling over the imps. I never once had under 300k in since I hit 30 as an op on Jung Ma. Once I got to the Bastion, it was next to impossible to get to 200. The pvp level is that big.

 

I am not saying, we can't stop the caps, heck at my gear level I do it all the time. better me in 80 percent recruit than a better geared sniper. I am saying that operatives are not better than a dps juggernaught, mara, or powertech at node guarding. Well depending on how many attack. Now we are into hypothetical situations. let's stop there.

 

Anyways, I transfered over all my characters before realizing I wanted to keep at least one over because I liked Jung Ma's community. They are nice guys, but the top damage dealer I have ever ran into was on Bastion and it was a commando. On Jung Ma, most people were claiming they were broken for pvp.

 

I apologize if I come off as harsh. I just get tired of people claiming certain trees are broken. I now make it a habit to go after the "broken" classes and play them.

 

Side Note: I can't seem to beat a good juggernaugt or guardian at all. Not on my pt, assassin, or scoundrel.

[TheOpf]

I play empire, i was under the impression that dirty fighting = concealment but it seems im mistaken. I've already said having imaginary 1v1's is pointless on the forums in a previous post, i was just trying to make a point with why stunning after rocket punch doesnt make a huge difference. You seem very hard headed and maybe I am too, so it seems the only way one of us will get our point across is if we 1v1. Did you move to the Bastion yet or are you still on Jung Ma?

 

I apologize if I come off as harsh or rude. It actually makes a huge difference. Even if you break the stun, typical response time with lag gives me at least 1 global cooldown maybe 2 before you are up and hitting me with the rail shot. That may open up another cleanse and so on.

 

If you want to duel a hard to kill operative find Carth Onasi. I left the first day they opened it up. I am not trying to argue, simply trying to point out that you aren't looking at the classes except in ewww, I don't like that colored glasses.

 

For future endeavors,

 

Dirty Fighting = Lethality

Scrapper = Concealment

Sawbones = whatever the healing operative is.

[FeralPug]

Let me just state that my team is winning consistently with a current record of 48-7. Our biggest problem seems to be disconnects, and getting folks together at the same time. It's like herding cats.

 

I'm not posting here because I feel the need to do something drastic to win games. We haven't lost a game in a long time, sometimes playing with 7 players do to disconnects.

 

I'm posting my thoughts on AP because I personally feel that pyro is a one trick pony in ranked play. I could care less what my damage is at the end of the match. The win is the most important thing. On my server the competition is fierce. Lots of strong teams are climbing the ladder, and from what I have observed: damage done has 0 correlation with wins. 0. The teams we've lost against field several classes that spend some time in a match being totally immune to railshot., so I'm exploring other options. The highest team on my server just cleared 1700 (we're right below them), which is a testament to the fact that there is serious competition. Server to server ELOs mean nothing, so don't compare.

 

Currently, the number 1 team on my server does not field a pyro/assault FYI.

 

The bottom line is that I am feeling limited by pyro, and am looking for another option. I see a lot of potential in AP, and would like to encourage other PT's who are playing on competitive ranked teams to give it a shot so we can compare notes.

 

As to survivability: pyro, regardless of energy rebounder, dies more than a properly specced AP. There is NO comparison. I literally die half as much as AP simply due to damage reduction and mobility.

 

Almost done with my WH combat tech set. One more piece to go. Will be doing ranked with AP once my set is complete.

[TheOpf]

This is my last post on this subject as I feel like im starting to repeat myself. Advanced Prototype gives you more utility but not enough utility to let you compete with the other classes in that field. Pyrotech does the most damage out of any class in the game right now except for maybe an amazing sniper. If you want to play your class to its fullest play pyrotech, if you want to play AP then know you're missing out on BURST and overall damage. /rant

 

And I repectuflly disagree. The burst on Pyro is great, and it's the best during that 6 seconds. However over the span of a 15 second fight they do the same damage except the AP's damage never changes. The idea that you have to play pyrotech to play a class to it's fullest is a joke. A shield tech played to it's fullest is worth just as much in his role as the Pyro.

 

The correct comment should be. If you want to do nothing but kill people and do all your damage in short bursts with big pretty numbers than go pyro. If you want to have more utility and a little more freedom in your class go AP. If you want to protect your friends, be hard to kill, and in general annoy everyone on the field play a Shield tech.

 

Your comment is very biased, and if you can't see that than you need to open your mind a bit. I had to do it. I was once like you mate.

[TheOpf]

Let me just state that my team is winning consistently with a current record of 48-7. Our biggest problem seems to be disconnects, and getting folks together at the same time. It's like herding cats.

 

I'm not posting here because I feel the need to do something drastic to win games. We haven't lost a game in a long time, sometimes playing with 7 players do to disconnects.

 

I'm posting my thoughts on AP because I personally feel that pyro is a one trick pony in ranked play. I could care less what my damage is at the end of the match. The win is the most important thing. On my server the competition is fierce. Lots of strong teams are climbing the ladder, and from what I have observed: damage done has 0 correlation with wins. 0. The teams we've lost against field several classes that spend some time in a match being totally immune to railshot., so I'm exploring other options. The highest team on my server just cleared 1700 (we're right below them), which is a testament to the fact that there is serious competition. Server to server ELOs mean nothing, so don't compare.

 

Currently, the number 1 team on my server does not field a pyro/assault FYI.

 

The bottom line is that I am feeling limited by pyro, and am looking for another option. I see a lot of potential in AP, and would like to encourage other PT's who are playing on competitive ranked teams to give it a shot so we can compare notes.

 

As to survivability: pyro, regardless of energy rebounder, dies more than a properly specced AP. There is NO comparison. I literally die half as much as AP simply due to damage reduction and mobility.

 

Almost done with my WH combat tech set. One more piece to go. Will be doing ranked with AP once my set is complete.

 

If you want to have fun go two piece Combat Medic for the improved shield. A 15 second shield is very addicting.

[lolcthulhu]

Your comment is very biased, and if you can't see that than you need to open your mind a bit. I had to do it. I was once like you mate.

 

I dont see how my comment is biased. If you look in my sig, my main is a marauder, which goes to show that at the very least i have played other dps classes. What im doing is not comparing the powertech trees to eachother.. I'm comparing the trees to other classes. Tank powertechs fall behind tank assassins and tank juggs in damage, crowd control, and utility (Not damage mitigation or protection necessarily). AP powertechs fall behind dps assassins and marauders of any spec when it comes to a balance of utility and damage (even huttball running). When you look at each individual class and try to define its role, thats when you start to see that pyrotechs shine above the other specs.

 

 

I like to think i'm open minded, and i really love talking about the different ways to play classes in this game. The "Mobility" argument is lost on me as well, since i usually patrol a set location and i have healers and tanks that i need to be defending anyway. Pyrotech is an excellent kiter and chaser with the infinite single target snare it has, and pull + stuns. If AP really seemed like the most effective way to play powertech I would definitely play it. So feel free to try to open my eyes a little, because as it is now im just not seeing it.

Edited July 6, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[TheOpf]

I dont see how my comment is biased. If you look in my sig, my main is a marauder, which goes to show that at the very least i have played other dps classes. What im doing is not comparing the powertech trees to eachother.. I'm comparing the trees to other classes. Tank powertechs fall behind tank assassins and tank juggs in damage, crowd control, and utility (Not damage mitigation or protection necessarily). AP powertechs fall behind dps assassins and marauders of any spec when it comes to a balance of utility and damage (even huttball running). When you look at each individual class and try to define its role, thats when you start to see that pyrotechs shine above the other specs.

 

 

I like to think i'm open minded, and i really love talking about the different ways to play classes in this game. The "Mobility" argument is lost on me as well, since i usually patrol a set location and i have healers and tanks that i need to be defending anyway. Pyrotech is an excellent kiter and chaser with the infinite single target snare it has, and pull + stuns. If AP really seemed like the most effective way to play powertech I would definitely play it. So feel free to try to open my eyes a little, because as it is now im just not seeing it.

 

You play two dps specs that are kill or be killed and you don't see how you might be biased at all? Mara's and Pyro's are essentially the same. They rely on kill or be killed mentalities. You state you like to think about different ways to play the game, but you only care about damage when discussing classes. Your statement of pyro gets more damage and burst so is the only way to play is completely counter to your statement that you "love talking about different ways".

 

If you can't see how AP is significantly more mobile, and absolutely is the 2nd best ball carrier in huttball than i can't help you. If you somehow think a Mara is a better ball carrier (I am sorry, but that is so funny) than AP. I will give you the Juggernaught, but there isn't a single reputable pvp team or player who would make the statement that AP isn't fantastic in huttball. You can't see the utility of AP, because you play two trees/classes that are single minded focus, and it fits you. That's great. Someone who cares that much about "Burst" and being top damage should never roll anything but a Pyro or Mara.

 

Like I said before, you are simply repeating what forum posters and naysayers say, and you refuse to look at anything that doesn't go bing bang boom. My favorite comment is when posters go AP has no burst. Really so my 4.8k crit immolate followed by 2.8-3.3k Fire Bursts and 3k Rocket Punch and 8-10k damage on Flame Thrower isn't burst. Heh!

[lolcthulhu]

You play two dps specs that are kill or be killed and you don't see how you might be biased at all? Mara's and Pyro's are essentially the same. They rely on kill or be killed mentalities. You state you like to think about different ways to play the game, but you only care about damage when discussing classes. Your statement of pyro gets more damage and burst so is the only way to play is completely counter to your statement that you "love talking about different ways".

 

If you can't see how AP is significantly more mobile, and absolutely is the 2nd best ball carrier in huttball than i can't help you. If you somehow think a Mara is a better ball carrier (I am sorry, but that is so funny) than AP. I will give you the Juggernaught, but there isn't a single reputable pvp team or player who would make the statement that AP isn't fantastic in huttball. You can't see the utility of AP, because you play two trees/classes that are single minded focus, and it fits you. That's great. Someone who cares that much about "Burst" and being top damage should never roll anything but a Pyro or Mara.

 

Like I said before, you are simply repeating what forum posters and naysayers say, and you refuse to look at anything that doesn't go bing bang boom. My favorite comment is when posters go AP has no burst. Really so my 4.8k crit immolate followed by 2.8-3.3k Fire Bursts and 3k Rocket Punch and 8-10k damage on Flame Thrower isn't burst. Heh!

 

My problem is that you're saying things that are just completely wrong. 10k damage to 1 target over 4 globals(assuming they all crit) isnt burst especially when you compare it to TD + railshot doing 10k at the exact same time. Thats burst. You saying AP is the second best ball runner is just rediculous. It literally makes no sense. Juggernauts are great, followed by assassins(force speed + shroud) followed by marauders. You think marauders are bad ball runners? Its cool if you like to be different but you just dont make sense with the things you say. Carnage marauders with +80% movement speed, amazing defensive cooldowns, LEAP, and 5 seconds of invincibility(meaning they can get pulled into fire and NOT die) are all reasons why huttball teams need marauders more then AP powertechs haha. You are COMPLETELY missing every point i've made so far. The fact that i like to play dps classes has no relevance here and stating that pyrotechs do the most damage isnt a biased statement at all. Its something i can back up with hours of experience and tons of screen shots. You've got to be a troll or you're just stupid.

 

The "Mobility" increases that AP get are so miniscule that they shouldnt even be mentioned. HO is a great skill, 30% speed and you cant be stunned/knocked back. Great. Other then running the huttball I fail to see how that makes you guard nodes better. 8 Seconds of not being stunned or knocked back is just like having a full resolve bar. Yay.

15% movement speed passively is hardly noticable too, I hear the same thing from every AP powertech(theres very few of you) and it just doesnt rationalize playing the spec when you lose so much.

 

You're right I do have a single minded focus. Winning. I fit a role that every team needs to be successful. I never said "you cant play any other spec as powertech." Anyone can play any way that they think is fun. If you cant see why playing pyrotech is the most effecient way to play then I dont know what to tell you. This. Game. Is. Not. Balanced.

If you're trolling me, good job it worked lol

Edited July 6, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[lolcthulhu]

Your statement of pyro gets more damage and burst so is the only way to play is completely counter to your statement that you "love talking about different ways".

 

 

Aren't we talking about different ways to play? Herp Derp. I just made a broad statement about the game as a whole, i could talk about marauder / sorc / operative specs all day too.

[FeralPug]

especially when you compare it to TD + railshot doing 10k at the exact same time. Thats burst.

 

This doesn't happen in 1.3 against geared targets, i.e. in ranked play.

 

1852 Aim

879 Power

1295 Expertise

[lolcthulhu]

This doesn't happen in 1.3 against geared targets, i.e. in ranked play.

 

1852 Aim

879 Power

1295 Expertise

 

Okay, 4500 railshot 4500 thermal detonator and 1k combustible gas cylinder proc then. Theres 10k. You know the red buff on the maps still give you +15% damage so 12k+ instantly is still doable

[FeralPug]

Okay, 4500 railshot 4500 thermal detonator and 1k combustible gas cylinder proc then. Theres 10k. You know the red buff on the maps still give you +15% damage so 12k+ instantly is still doable

 

Screenshot of this happening in a ranked game please.

[lolcthulhu]

Screenshot of this happening in a ranked game please.

 

lol seriously? if you have the stats you're claiming you can do it easily

[FeralPug]

lol seriously? if you have the stats you're claiming you can do it easily

 

I have the stats I'm claiming. No point in exaggerating. As AP the Aim goes up to 1900+ give or take, as I recently changed some mods around.

 

I ask for a screenshot of TD and Railshot critting in a ranked WZ for 4500 each simultaneously because no one is going to provide it. It might happen from time to time, but it is simply not something you can rely on. Soft targets are usually guarded. Several classes have ways of mitigating railshot damage to the extreme, so even if you can coax these numbers from time to time you can't possibly suggest that this is the norm against equally geared players.

 

Pyro requires stringing several cycles of burst together. It's easy to do, but the numbers you're talking about are few and far between against well-geared players.

 

Opf's AP burst numbers are actually conservative, and unmitigated.

 

I have found that AP's damage is within 5% of pyro. You can keep denying this, but this is my finding.

 

Do you play a pyro in ranked? If not, what valor level is your pyro?

[lolcthulhu]

 

Do you play a pyro in ranked? If not, what valor level is your pyro?

 

I play a pyro in ranked, my group runs with 2 of us and we call targets so our burst is always hitting the same person. I've got 104 wins and 4 losses with this group. My valor rank is 82 atm but this was my alt until the server merges thats why its low. If you dont believe me i can easily screen shot my pvp menu, its much easier then stopping mid fight to try and take a picture of some numbers lol