AP Better than Pyro for Ranked!

[lolcthulhu]

You should go back to posting in your AP tread, TheOpf, because this thread isnt about whether or not you can have fun playing AP.

 

Its funny that the people I have talked to about this thread keep telling me "There's no use talking to that idiot" (They remember you from VZ) but i've got to say its been amusing so far.

Edited July 12, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[CharterMonkKent]

All I've done is argue which spec is better and you're the one who seems to think there is some kind of war going on. You have no basis for anything you said in this last post! The one thing I keep saying is in response to the name of the thread and you're just too stupid to realize it. There really is no use arguing with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Its true the art of debate really is dying because people like you just spout off ******** and claim it as fact. The reason nobody is going to respond with a picture of their wins/losses as AP powertech is because there arent any that are on 2200+ rated teams. If there are, there are VERY few and I still stand by the statement that they would be more helpful to their team as Pyrotech. Stay on subject buddy this isnt about you and me.

 

p.s. Misinformation? Laugh.

 

Next time I see a pryo do 50K+ damage in 3 seconds I'll believe you that pyro is always more helpful. And asking for a picture is never a good way to find proof. I've seen people post pyro stats over a million and lose plenty of times. Shrug. This is an argument no one can win because it's a video game

[lolcthulhu]

Next time I see a pryo do 50K+ damage in 3 seconds I'll believe you that pyro is always more helpful. And asking for a picture is never a good way to find proof. I've seen people post pyro stats over a million and lose plenty of times. Shrug. This is an argument no one can win because it's a video game

 

Well, +50% damage on your flame thrower(prototype flame thrower) isnt going to add up to 50k+ damage, but i get your point. I've NEVER said AP isnt a viable spec, in fact i've probably said it IS viable 10 different times in this thread. Also I never asked for a screen shot of any specific match, I was looking for wins/losses and personal rating for ranked warzones. When you click the pvp button that little menu pops up, thats what i want screen shotted by good AP players, and yes this is really just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. This games forums have been boring lately.

Edited July 12, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[CharterMonkKent]

Well, +50% damage on your flame thrower(prototype flame thrower) isnt going to add up to 50k+ damage, but i get your point. I never asked for a screen shot of any specific match, I was looking for wins/losses and personal rating for ranked warzones. When you click the pvp button that little menu pops up, thats what i want screen shotted by good AP players. and yes this is really just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

 

I don't have a team to play rated WZs in but I consider myself a very good AP. I beat Pyros on damage regularly when I want to just do damage. Shrug. It's also the player behind the keyboard and the team they play with/against. I said earlier in this post that pyro was boring to me because it's one note and the downtime is annoying. Arguments can be made both ways on who is better, I think neither are. They are very different.

 

8k-11k damage on 5 players happens often in a match. Why do you think ap is the best at melting healers?

[TheOpf]

You should go back to posting in your AP tread, TheOpf, because this thread isnt about whether or not you can have fun playing AP.

 

Its funny that the people I have talked to about this thread keep telling me "There's no use talking to that idiot" (They remember you from VZ) but i've got to say its been amusing so far.

 

I refuse to be drawn in by the troll.

[TheOpf]

Well, +50% damage on your flame thrower(prototype flame thrower) isnt going to add up to 50k+ damage, but i get your point. I've NEVER said AP isnt a viable spec, in fact i've probably said it IS viable 10 different times in this thread. Also I never asked for a screen shot of any specific match, I was looking for wins/losses and personal rating for ranked warzones. When you click the pvp button that little menu pops up, thats what i want screen shotted by good AP players, and yes this is really just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. This games forums have been boring lately.

 

I refuse to be drawn in by the troll.

[lolcthulhu]

I don't have a team to play rated WZs in but I consider myself a very good AP. I beat Pyros on damage regularly when I want to just do damage. Shrug. It's also the player behind the keyboard and the team they play with/against. I said earlier in this post that pyro was boring to me because it's one note and the downtime is annoying. Arguments can be made both ways on who is better, I think neither are. They are very different.

 

8k-11k damage on 5 players happens often in a match. Why do you think ap is the best at melting healers?

 

My goal has never been to diss AP players or the spec. All i've been trying to convey is that in coordinated ranked teams, where targets are called and killed in seconds flat your AOE dps isnt as helpful as the single target burst that pyro gives. Sure great players can play AP very well but they can also play pyro very well(its very easy) and be more productive on a high calibur team.

 

Also other than in voidstar I find it hard to hit 5 players with flame thrower and with explosive fuel up pyro can do great damage with the regular flame thrower. So even if you do 45k with 1 flame thrower the pyrotech player can do 30k with it. 50% damage isnt that much when you compare it to what you lose.

[TheOpf]

I don't have a team to play rated WZs in but I consider myself a very good AP. I beat Pyros on damage regularly when I want to just do damage. Shrug. It's also the player behind the keyboard and the team they play with/against. I said earlier in this post that pyro was boring to me because it's one note and the downtime is annoying. Arguments can be made both ways on who is better, I think neither are. They are very different.

 

8k-11k damage on 5 players happens often in a match. Why do you think ap is the best at melting healers?

 

Pyro troll about to be incoming this is too much logic for him. Haha, This was my first thought but I refuse to reply to any post he makes. I am going to take the dardack and agooz method of ignoring the troll and hoping he goes away since logic isn't his strong suit. My favorite part of all his comments is when he goes this isn't personal. Than calls me an idiot 10 different times in 3 different posts, but hey it's not personal. I swear I must have farm killed him or trolled him in game sometime, or maybe I just never acknowledged him after he got killed. Meh.

 

 

Dangit, I told myself I wouldn't get pulled in by the troll ARGH! Wait I do remember liono!! haha, oh man, this guy is epic. If I could I would tell you stories of him in WZ's. Haha, my brother fought them recently hahaa, oh man. But I digress I will leave it alone.

 

I have to keep telling myself - I refuse to be drawn in by the troll.

Edited July 12, 2012 by TheOpf

[lolcthulhu]

I refuse to be drawn in by the troll.

 

Call me a troll or whatever but that doesn't change that pyro is better than AP for ranked warzones. Don't post anymore thats fine, your opinions would go better elsewhere anyways.

[TheOpf]

My goal has never been to diss AP players or the spec. All i've been trying to convey is that in coordinated ranked teams, where targets are called and killed in seconds flat your AOE dps isnt as helpful as the single target burst that pyro gives. Sure great players can play AP very well but they can also play pyro very well(its very easy) and be more productive on a high calibur team.

 

Also other than in voidstar I find it hard to hit 5 players with flame thrower and with explosive fuel up pyro can do great damage with the regular flame thrower. So even if you do 45k with 1 flame thrower the pyrotech player can do 30k with it. 50% damage isnt that much when you compare it to what you lose.

 

ooo, like I said Wnk - too much logic for him to handle. I love it, because in his world no one ever groups up, and no one ever steps in a cone. PYRO RULES and Liono is the king of them all! All hail the Troll!

 

Dangit, he got me again!

Edited July 12, 2012 by TheOpf

[lolcthulhu]

ooo, like I said Wnk - too much logic for him to handle. I love it, because in his world no one ever groups up, and no one ever steps in a cone. PYRO RULES and Liono is the king of them all! All hail the Troll!

 

Dangit, he got me again!

 

5 players are not going to be stacked on eachother every 18 seconds anywhere except voidstars and MAYBE huttball (in huttball they're always moving.) Regardless thats not important. For somebody who claims I can't understand logic you don't seem to be using very much of it yourself.

 

Oh and call me a troll all you want it doesnt bother me. Besides i'm obviously getting to you lol.

[TheOpf]

5 players are not going to be stacked on eachother every 18 seconds anywhere except voidstars and MAYBE huttball (in huttball they're always moving.) Regardless thats not important. For somebody who claims I can't understand logic you don't seem to be using very much of it yourself.

 

Oh and call me a troll all you want it doesnt bother me. Besides i'm obviously getting to you lol.

 

ooo burn!! I bolded the best TWO parts. Please relearn the trees than talk to me. Anything you don't think of is NOT IMPORTANT. PYRO LIONO HAS SPOKEN! IT IS LAW.

 

Can we please get input from tidus? I mean doesn't he stir up enough trouble without you?

Edited July 12, 2012 by TheOpf

[lolcthulhu]

The more I think about it the more it has become apparent that the real problem is you just don't understand what I'm saying. You've never been on a truely coordinated team (2000+ or even 1800+) so you don't realize how that gameplay really is. You probably havent even played against a truely skilled team before. You're basing all of your information off of pugging which is why you cant comprehend anything beyond your own experiences. Its okay tho, I understand.

[TheOpf]

The more I think about it the more it has become apparent that the real problem is you just don't understand what I'm saying. You've never been on a truely coordinated team (2000+ or even 1800+) so you don't realize how that gameplay really is. You probably havent even played against a truely skilled team before. You're basing all of your information off of pugging which is why you cant comprehend anything beyond your own experiences. Its okay tho, I understand.

 

I am sure you are right. Because you are Liono, king of snarf, pyro god of Jung Ma. You are the greatest pvp player of all time, and all who dare cross your path are evildoers who must be vanquished. Only you may dictate who can play and who can't. Do not dare cross the paths with this man! No one ever successfully played any other tree to ranked play. Thank you for your input. We all are better off with your input. You have contributed greatly to the powertech forums. We shall sticky all you say for future players who wish to know greatness.

 

Many great pvpers will now reroll to Jung Ma to see your greatness in action. Sleens and Jawa Bunny Ranch will come crying back to you for guidance because their pt's are tanks and therefore worthless. Thank you so much for showing me the errors of my ways.

Edited July 12, 2012 by TheOpf

[lolcthulhu]

ooo burn!! I bolded the best TWO parts. Please relearn the trees than talk to me. Anything you don't think of is NOT IMPORTANT. PYRO LIONO HAS SPOKEN! IT IS LAW.

 

Can we please get input from tidus? I mean doesn't he stir up enough trouble without you?

 

This is awesome lol you're such a child. Yeah I dont spec AP so my flamethower does 50% less damage has a 3 second longer cooldown. You got me?

[TheOpf]

This is awesome lol you're such a child. Yeah I dont spec AP so my flamethower does 50% less damage has a 3 second longer cooldown. You got me?

 

Thank you for your input. We all are better off having known you and heard from you. You have contributed greatly to the powertech forums. We shall sticky all you say for future players who wish to know greatness.

Edited July 12, 2012 by TheOpf

[lolcthulhu]

I swear I must have farm killed him or trolled him in game sometime, or maybe I just never acknowledged him after he got killed. Meh.

 

Haha, my brother fought them recently hahaa, oh man. But I digress I will leave it alone.

 

I have to keep telling myself - I refuse to be drawn in by the troll.

 

Oh, i missed your ninja-edit. Yeah that couldnt have possibly happened since when you were on jung ma you only played pre-50 right?

I have only played my marauder like 3 times since the transfers so im sure your brother has great stories. All losses to OoS premades lol. Keep making up more ******** bro!

[Kothakk]

Anything useful in this thread? I cba with reading "troll this, troll that".

[lolcthulhu]

Anything useful in this thread? I cba with reading "troll this, troll that".

 

Yeah anything before like page 7 i think, then it got a little out of hand

[CharterMonkKent]

My goal has never been to diss AP players or the spec. All i've been trying to convey is that in coordinated ranked teams, where targets are called and killed in seconds flat your AOE dps isnt as helpful as the single target burst that pyro gives. Sure great players can play AP very well but they can also play pyro very well(its very easy) and be more productive on a high calibur team.

 

Also other than in voidstar I find it hard to hit 5 players with flame thrower and with explosive fuel up pyro can do great damage with the regular flame thrower. So even if you do 45k with 1 flame thrower the pyrotech player can do 30k with it. 50% damage isnt that much when you compare it to what you lose.

 

It doesn't look like you have played AP for any length of time. AP does great single target damage, not sure why you say it doesn't. AP damage is not proc related. Immolate 3.8-4.4k, rocket punch (no heat) 3.1-3.6k, here you can spam flame burst 2.4-3.7k (usually best option), or use RB 1.5k non dot damage and then RS 3.5-4.3k. I won't count pft in this at all (which would be 8-12k and the best part, you would hit other players too). Low end is 14.3 K damage, high end 17.6. Both numbers not using dot damage or PFT. The damage can't be blocked or mitigated, except rail, many builds of AP don't use rail because of this. There is no overheating and the damage doesn't require a proc, except the optional rail.

 

I don't expect a response to this because there isn't anything to say. I just want others that read this post to know that your opinions about AP are different from someone who actually plays AP.

[Suryi]

lolctulhu is talking about when somebody in your team calls out "nuke X" and the pyro swaps to him, the bulk of the damage from the Pyro comes quicker then it would from an AP, even if AP would eventually deal the same damage. In other words, over the same periods of time both would do comparable damage, Pyro would just hit harder at the start.

 

And sadly, blowing stuff up is the current conception of PT/VGs and most people seem to think that PT/VG = Pyro/Assault and they're only there to blow things up and chew bubble gum. I don't think there's enough good AP/Tactics out there to show the world that the middle tree isn't the middle finger.

 

Before I'm jumped, I'm not saying AP is useless or non-viable or anything bad about AP.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Suryi

[CharterMonkKent]

lolctulhu is talking about when somebody in your team calls out "nuke X" and the pyro swaps to him, the bulk of the damage from the Pyro comes quicker then it would from an AP, even if AP would eventually deal the same damage. In other words, over the same periods of time both would do comparable damage, Pyro would just hit harder at the start.

 

I know what burst is AP can do 12k damage in 2/3 globals with no proc required. If that's not burst then maybe I don't know what burst is...

[Suryi]

I know what burst is AP can do 12k damage in 2/3 globals with no proc required. If that's not burst then maybe I don't know what burst is...

 

Sorry I keep editing my post so it's troll proof.

 

I later mention that there aren't enough good AP/Tactics out there to show the world that it's viable because atm people seem to think VG/PT = Assault/Pyro

[CharterMonkKent]

Sorry I keep editing my post so it's troll proof.

 

I later mention that there aren't enough good AP/Tactics out there to show the world that it's viable because atm people seem to think VG/PT = Assault/Pyro

 

I hear ya. When I steam roll a pyro on my AP I get some whispers asking why my flame burst hits 1-2k harder than them, or why I don't overheat. The biggest gripe I hear from 1v1 with pyro/assault is when I have them under 8k health and I stun then use PFT. they die before they unstun. I get called a cheater sometimes because there are so few APs people don't understand its mechanics. Or when stunned how AP takes 20% less flat damage. Being stunned with both shield and adrenal rail hits AP for between 900-1300. That's why we rarely use our cc breaker until its absolutely needed.

[TheOpf]

lolctulhu is talking about when somebody in your team calls out "nuke X" and the pyro swaps to him, the bulk of the damage from the Pyro comes quicker then it would from an AP, even if AP would eventually deal the same damage. In other words, over the same periods of time both would do comparable damage, Pyro would just hit harder at the start.

 

And sadly, blowing stuff up is the current conception of PT/VGs and most people seem to think that PT/VG = Pyro/Assault and they're only there to blow things up and chew bubble gum. I don't think there's enough good AP/Tactics out there to show the world that the middle tree isn't the middle finger.

 

Before I'm jumped, I'm not saying AP is useless or non-viable or anything bad about AP.

 

You are correct the lack of good AP/Tactics players is what creates the issue. Plus you have Pyro players who make the switch and can't seem to do that well because they play it the same. There is one technical piece that's a bit misleading. Pyro doesn't have a single attack over the span of 3 seconds that hits harder than anything AP has over that same period of time. The difference is in how it's delivered.

 

1. TD plus RS is 8k instantly even though it takes 3 seconds or 2 Global Cooldwons but it's all backloaded. There is no difference in the time taken to reach it. Simply instead of 4k plus 4k it's 5k and 3k at one time because of TD's delayed hit.

 

2. Combustible Gas Cylinder is the single reason Pyro end up with higher damage and will end up with more damage in a warzone than an equally played AP player. Combustible Gas Cylinder is the best cylinder in the game and the rolling dots tick for significantly more than RB. IF you don't believe me roll AP with CGC and your overall damage will increase. A spammable 50 percent slow with a dot that ticks for 300 - 500 is way better than 30 percent slow with a tick of 150-300.

 

I have repeated this using facts, numbers, and testing. AP and Tactics in a 1v1 battle will deliver the same amount of damage over the same period of time with the exception of CGC being the difference maker. The damage of Pyro's biggest hitters is equal to AP's biggest hitters of the same period of time. The difference is in method of delivery.

Edited July 13, 2012 by TheOpf