To all Carnage Marauder, does your "Execute Skill" work?

[Brightbillatb]

because half of carnage/combats skills are craptastic, that is why no good marauders/sentinels play anything but annhilation/watchmen.

 

 

Honestly its prob half or even more marauders that are crap period.. No spec is more superior to the other to me atleast, each play key roles and each spec is now viable on the marauder class and very powerful aswell. Give you this, annihilation is prob the best spec survivability wise and you can do great damage aswell, but as I said no spec is more superior to any of the other its more about the person behind that marauder.

[Yescek]

It's a single hit (i.e. only one damage value) - yes, it benefits from off-hand damage bonus, so many annihilation marauders have begun with all 3 points to get the 66% damage bonus from dual-wield mastery, but all the best annihilation marauders I've spoken with have found that 2 points in dual-wield mastery is sufficient - the change in annihilate's damage values with/without is only ~ 200 even when it's a crit on an unbubbled light armor wearer - it also only uses main-hand accuracy value to determine its hits... Massacre, on the other hand does 2 seperate damage values (3 when you count the automatic ataru form proc) and since the off-hand is less likely (than the main-hand) to land, carnys really need to maintain a good bit of accuracy. Sure, it's easy to hit for over 5k if you don't use much accuracy, but those off-hand hits will certainly miss a lot on many tank classes, sorc/sages/sins/shadows (particularly if they have defense relics and redoubt augs, grr) - and to miss those off-hands, you'll actually be missing out on a LOT of overall dps (which sucks for us).

 

Thank god, someone else who knows. And people wonder WHY I say Carnage Maras need at least 105% melee acc.

[SinnedWill]

To quote the talent tree.

Annihilate.

Strikes the target with both lightsabers for 920 - 1200 weapon damage. Each use of this ability grants Annihilator for 15 seconds, lowering the cooldown of your next Annihilate by 1.5 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Requires two lightsabers.

 

The tooltip description is misleading - its deals ONE damage value, its accuracy is based solely off main-hand special attack accuracy. Now, it DOES gain some damage bonus from off-hand damage bonus (but since it doesn't actually roll an off-hand attack, off-hand accuracy is not even factored in). As I said before, the difference in damage between having 3 points in dual-wield mastery (which puts you at 66% off-hand damage bonus) and 2 points in dual-wield mastery (which puts you at 54% off-hand damage bonus) with Annihilate roughly translates into a loss of ~ 200 damage against fully WH-geared sorc/sages without a bubble.

 

Can't log in right now, since servers are down, but if I remember correctly, I think the maximum damage value from the tooltip for annihilate is ~3800 for me - compared to massacre's maximum damage value which is ~1400. Difference is: massacre causes a main-hand attack AND an off-hand attack (and an ataru form attack), so massacre causes 3 damage values (assuming they all land) - annihilate only causes 1 damage value.

Edited July 8, 2012 by SinnedWill

[SinnedWill]

I must say in the smaller 4 man premades annihilation is much better but in 8 mans carnage hands down... massacre is soo good with berserk and gore popped.

 

And to counter that arguement, carnage is much more easily countered offensively - my carny rarely gets to take advantage of gore procs (since every good enemy ranked team will counter its short window). What carnage DOES do better in rateds compared to annihilation is that they bring lots of rooting, great healer pressuring (well, anything that uses activateds, really, since berserk + massacre spam causes 3 seperate damage values -assuming you're connecting with your off-hands- which heavily impacts extending the timers for activated abilities - I'd certainly say that this causes an equally if not more significant impact compared to annihilation which has a talented cooldown reduction on their interrupt).

[BountyHuntertwo]

Personally I've noticed that for raids Carnage dps is very competitive with Annihilation once you have 75% or higher crit damage so our crits can catch us up to Anni's DoTs.

[zxckakel]

because half of carnage/combats skills are craptastic, that is why no good marauders/sentinels play anything but annhilation/watchmen.

 

Yeah, hitting 2k to 2.5k massacr, 1.6k gore, 4k FS is crap. Your ravage with gore buff can hit 12k with ravage alone. oh wait there's more, ataru strikes albeit you are snared... oh wait, healers won't be able to cleanse your bleed because you don't need bleed... oh wait, predation's speed against kiters.... oh wait, the roots... oh wait, how you can beat a pure tank class in 10 secs... Yeah, Carnage is bad

[hyuplee]

Yeah, hitting 2k to 2.5k massacr, 1.6k gore, 4k FS is crap. Your ravage with gore buff can hit 12k with ravage alone. oh wait there's more, ataru strikes albeit you are snared... oh wait, healers won't be able to cleanse your bleed because you don't need bleed... oh wait, predation's speed against kiters.... oh wait, the roots... oh wait, how you can beat a pure tank class in 10 secs... Yeah, Carnage is bad

 

lol nice sarcasm

 

In open world with rakata adrenal my gore + ravage record is 17.5k on a recruited gear commando. (by the second hit his hp is down to 2.2k and he has roughly about 14k hp. No screenshot. Didn't expect to crit 3 ticks with the last hit critting for 7.2k. Sorry).

 

Honestly annihilation is easy mode. Just bleed, annihilate, bleed + pop CD if needed then you're alright. You can also afford a lot of mistakes in anni.

 

Real marauders play Carnage, and it honestly doesn't do half bad in warzone if you know how to use it.

http://www.leethacker.com/images/ynob9qj3rt3apld5ttwl.jpg

 

PS. I do play anni for fun though. Rage mara is just fail. No KB and force scream in carnage actually does more damage against geared player than smash in rage.

Edited August 22, 2012 by hyuplee

[-Yui-]

Honestly annihilation is easy mode. Just bleed, annihilate, bleed + pop CD if needed then you're alright. You can also afford a lot of mistakes in anni.

 

Real marauders play Carnage, and it honestly doesn't do half bad in warzone if you know how to use it.

http://www.leethacker.com/images/ynob9qj3rt3apld5ttwl.jpg

 

I beg to differ. On my first day as Carnage after switching over from Annihilation I hit 500k in 300-0 Civil Wars. If I can nuke out 500k in quick Civil Wars while barely getting used to the spec, and by my own admission, while also making a ton of mistakes, you ought to be able to afford a lot more mistakes in Carnage.

 

And saying that only "real marauders play Carnage" is just living behind a rock. Both specs are plenty viable, and I know good Carnage marauders as well as good Annihilation marauders. Its more which spec you prefer.

 

And, yes, Annihilation doesn't do half bad in the hands of someone who knows how to use it either.

Edited August 22, 2012 by -Yui-

[hyuplee]

I beg to differ. On my first day as Carnage after switching over from Annihilation I hit 500k in 300-0 Civil Wars. If I can nuke out 500k in quick Civil Wars while barely getting used to the spec, and by my own admission, while also making a ton of mistakes, you ought to be able to afford a lot more mistakes in Carnage.

 

And saying that only "real marauders play Carnage" is just living behind a rock. Both specs are plenty viable, and I know good Carnage marauders as well as good Annihilation marauders. Its more which spec you prefer.

 

And, yes, Annihilation doesn't do half bad in the hands of someone who knows how to use it either.

 

You probably should read my post more - I did say I play annihilation for fun. i said annihilation is easy mode, which is obviously, because people tend to do well in annihilation - that's part of the reason why everyone plays that build.

 

Never once did i say annihilation is a bad build, it's just that carnage is harder to do well. If you actually do 500k in carnage (screenshot or it didn't happen) you'd probably do better in anni.If anyone ever lose to someone in 1 vs 1 playing annihilation they should probably reroll. It dishes out more substaindamage and has more survivability and interrupt than carnage.

 

And yet anni is rarely ever useful in ranked warzone because it has less utility than carnage. (saber root, ravage root, Speed boost, 2 cc breaker), which is why more and more people decide to go with carnage because it helps their team rather than their e peen when they look at the scoreboard. These people are the 'real' marauders, because unlike those who are obsessed with damage they'd rather pick a class that helps their team.

 

PS. I post the damage screenshot to help people understand that you CAN in fact do damage in carnage. Not that it is of any importance to me.

Edited August 23, 2012 by hyuplee

[-Yui-]

You probably should read my post more - I did say I play annihilation for fun. i said annihilation is easy mode, which is obviously, because people tend to do well in annihilation - that's part of the reason why everyone plays that build.

 

Never once did i say annihilation is a bad build, it's just that carnage is harder to do well. If you actually do 500k in carnage (screenshot or it didn't happen) you'd probably do better in anni.If anyone ever lose to someone in 1 vs 1 playing annihilation they should probably reroll. It dishes out more substaindamage and has more survivability and interrupt than carnage.

 

And yet anni is rarely ever useful in ranked warzone because it has less utility than carnage. (saber root, ravage root, Speed boost, 2 cc breaker), which is why more and more people decide to go with carnage because it helps their team rather than their e peen when they look at the scoreboard. These people are the 'real' marauders, because unlike those who are obsessed with damage they'd rather pick a class that helps their team.

 

PS. I post the damage screenshot to help people understand that you CAN in fact do damage in carnage. Not that it is of any importance to me.

 

Your screenshot as requested: http://i.imgur.com/ieflc.jpg

 

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am not comparing the two specs. I simply think that calling out users who play as Annihilation while saying that only combat marauders are "real" is disrespectful.

 

In fact, in the past week since I've started using Carnage, I've been doing more damage consistently than Annihilation. I've done 3 500k Civil Wars that weren't even long games - these two I'm posting only lasted 10 minutes. In contrast, in my last 10 months as a Annihilation marauder/sentinel, I've probably only done a dozen Civil Wars of that much damage in that short a time period.

 

Both specs have their respective strengths and weaknesses, and even in ranked, Annihilation has its uses. An Annihilation marauder can completely shut down a heals, and place an almost permanent slow on the target - as useful as the crippling throw root or master-strike immobilize imo. And don't forget the group heals that Annihilation provides - which most competent healers will tell you, help ease the strain of healing.

 

I'll just repeat what I said in the beginning. Both specs have their uses, and saying that only Carnage marauders are "real" is either being arrogant or ignorant - or a mix of both.

 

In response to your P.S., it is my personal experience that Carnage straight outdpses Annihilation by a little bit (I'm averaging around ~530k in full length Voidstars against ~500k in Annihilation) However, add in the extra heals, and Annihilation is substantially higher.

Edited August 23, 2012 by -Yui-

[hyuplee]

Both specs have their respective strengths and weaknesses, and even in ranked, Annihilation has its uses. An Annihilation marauder can completely shut down a heals, and place an almost permanent slow on the target - as useful as the crippling throw root or master-strike immobilize imo. And don't forget the group heals that Annihilation provides - which most competent healers will tell you, help ease the strain of healing. .

 

OH REALLY? I TOTALLY DID NOT KNOW THAT. You mean Annihilation actually has its uses? I thought it's the worst spec in the world and no one plays it anymore. You really showed me the light - please proceed to tell me more because obviously i haven't played anni before.Thanks so much for showing off your knowledge to me you totally blew my mind. (Here's a fun fact - you can use leg slash + spec into a rupture slow as carnage as well. But let's not go there)

Your screenshot as requested: http://i.imgur.com/ieflc.jpg

 

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am not comparing the two specs. I simply think that calling out users who play as Annihilation while saying that only combat marauders are "real" is disrespectful.

 

I'll just repeat what I said in the beginning. Both specs have their uses, and saying that only Carnage marauders are "real" is either being arrogant or ignorant - or a mix of both.

 

.

 

That's fair enough.

I'll continue to think that 'real' marauder uses combat/carnage, because it's more of a team oriented spec, and you can continue to think I'm arrogant, disrespect, ignorant or whatever. I really don't care. (Someone is being arrogant on the forums? Gasp. Somebody call the cops)

 

We're both entitled to our opinions. I sincerely think Carnage > Anni in RWZ and I can say that having played both build and used them both in RWZ, and nothing you can say will ever change that. But I'm not gonna call you anything so you can rest easy.

 

I do like the screenshot though. Most people don't provide those these days.

 

 

PS. carnage actually kill/shut down a healer faster than annihilation, but only when used properly. The self heal's also not as great as you make it out to be consider you heal around 3k tops per berserk/ zen. Deny it all you want but most mara knows this pretty well ; anni = Survivability. Carnge = Team-oriented.

Edited August 23, 2012 by hyuplee

[vimm]

I must say in the smaller 4 man premades annihilation is much better but in 8 mans carnage hands down... massacre is soo good with berserk and gore popped.

 

One thing that's very valuable about Annihilation is its ability to lock down healers with the close-up charge for an interrupt, as well as your main interrupt being on a 6 second cooldown. I definitely value that as well.

[BountyHuntertwo]

The reality is that Carnage and Annihilation are basically even in damage output. Now will Carnage do better burst, and therefore be better suited to the role most melee dps fill in PvP? Yes, it does, but Annihilation brings other things to the party that makes it just as good in certain teams/roles as well. Anni gives you a faster CD on our interrupt, shorter CD on Charge, and it gives us better sustained dps with less severe valleys in between damage peaks. Sitting here saying one or the other is markedly superior to the other is silly when they have similar, if not quite even, dps, and both have features that make them better and worse in certain situations. Now what should be mocked as a worthless spec for Marauders, and considered terrible is Rage, which as we all know is a gimmicky AoE spec, and utterly inferior to Carnage in single-target burst as well as being far too dependent on people clumping together.

[Omophorus]

The reality is that Carnage and Annihilation are basically even in damage output. Now will Carnage do better burst, and therefore be better suited to the role most melee dps fill in PvP? Yes, it does, but Annihilation brings other things to the party that makes it just as good in certain teams/roles as well. Anni gives you a faster CD on our interrupt, shorter CD on Charge, and it gives us better sustained dps with less severe valleys in between damage peaks. Sitting here saying one or the other is markedly superior to the other is silly when they have similar, if not quite even, dps, and both have features that make them better and worse in certain situations. Now what should be mocked as a worthless spec for Marauders, and considered terrible is Rage, which as we all know is a gimmicky AoE spec, and utterly inferior to Carnage in single-target burst as well as being far too dependent on people clumping together.

 

I would mostly agree with you, were it not for the rise of the ludicrous army of Rage Juggernauts. And considering that Rage Marauders really aren't any worse, I think it's also more of a situational thing.

 

Under ordinary circumstances, one will be best served by Carnage or Annihilation depending on the situation (and any "real" Marauder has the gear, skills, and knowledge to use any spec when it's needed, the above poster positing that "real" Marauders use a single spec is rofltacular at best), but with the right team makeup and tactics, Rage could be a compelling choice.

 

It's not a tactic I care for, or would particularly incite a team to adopt, but it is used, and a wall of Smashing Warriors is, under the right circumstances, nearly impossible to counter. On the flipside, under most other circumstances, it's very manageable to counter, and the team winds up being very weak.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Omophorus

[BountyHuntertwo]

I would mostly agree with you, were it not for the rise of the ludicrous army of Rage Juggernauts. And considering that Rage Marauders really aren't any worse, I think it's also more of a situational thing.

 

Under ordinary circumstances, one will be best served by Carnage or Annihilation depending on the situation (and any "real" Marauder has the gear, skills, and knowledge to use any spec when it's needed, the above poster positing that "real" Marauders use a single spec is rofltacular at best), but with the right team makeup and tactics, Rage could be a compelling choice.

 

It's not a tactic I care for, or would particularly incite a team to adopt, but it is used, and a wall of Smashing Warriors is, under the right circumstances, nearly impossible to counter. On the flipside, under most other circumstances, it's very manageable to counter, and the team winds up being very weak.

 

You can definitely do very good raw damage in the right situation, but Marauders running in Rage versus Juggernauts give up a lot of survivability, and really don't add a lot of dps since Smash doesn't benefit from an off-hand lightsaber. I wasn't saying Rage was useless, just that if you were going to run a Rage/AoE team you want Juggs, not Marauders given their heavy armor and larger health pools.

[Varicite]

One thing that's very valuable about Annihilation is its ability to lock down healers with the close-up charge for an interrupt, as well as your main interrupt being on a 6 second cooldown. I definitely value that as well.

 

We play one of each for this reason. Annihilation + Carnage = pure win. Or destruction, whichever floats your boat.