Sorc/Sage heals need to be returned to pre 1.2, other heals need buffs

[BurnsTwoThree]

IT's easy balance the sorcs healers, simply buff static barrier and make the trauma debuff from 30% to 25% the problem is to survive not the healings.

In pvp i die in secs with 1250 expertise and full WH gear, it's not about skill or gear it's about our shield it's not good with the output dmg of this patch.

Or just descrease the casting time of Dark Infusion by 0.5 secs.

I hope Bioware will read this... at least before guild wars2 come out...

 

Your post has litte/no thought or explanation as to why. Give me some points or examples.

 

Surival = Healing

Survival also can be defensive CDs

 

So if surviving is the issue but healing is not. Why are you biggest heals not healing you more than the highest hit you can take from a player.

 

GW2 won't be worth playing

Edited July 1, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[fungihoujo]

Ya, so pvping since 1.3- all that talk about 'dps is going to be nerfed so hard'- utter lie. It's worse than ever before by a long shot.

 

TTK has dropped to 3 seconds with two marauders on you now- and BW's just going to keep on nerfing healers and buffing marauders.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Ya, so pvping since 1.3- all that talk about 'dps is going to be nerfed so hard'- utter lie. It's worse than ever before by a long shot.

 

TTK has dropped to 3 seconds with two marauders on you now- and BW's just going to keep on nerfing healers and buffing marauders.

 

Fungi, healers have adapted. Those that learned how (and yes this includes Sorcs and Sages) are doing okay. Yes they need to cross heal, yes they need people to guard them, but they can and do turn the tide. I know you hate Marauders and Sentinels and I know you want them nerfed however things are actually fine.

 

Go look at rated teams.

 

Have you seen a single rated team that has 8 DPS classes? Of course not. Every really good rated team is running 2-3 healers 2-3 tanks and 2-3 DPS.

 

Some are running:

2 Healers, 2 Tanks, 4 DPS as well but they tend to not do as well.

 

Things are not as bad as you keep thinking they are. This patch nerfed cross healing a bit and did absolutely reduce burst. This was not going to nerf DPS. DPS doesn't need a nerf. This is just a learning how to play a healer in a non-wow environment situation.

 

Edit:

There also is at least one rated team I saw running 4 Healer 4 Tank and that one was a nightmare to try to beat on Voidstar or Alderaan Civil War.

 

You seriously need to get out of the mindset that Healers are Tanks in PVP. In TOR they aren't. They are insanely vulnerable to burst but are very good at holding off sustained damage. Tanks are highly resistant to burst but are eventually defeated by sustained damage. You put a Tank and a Healer together and they make sweet, sweet, music together.

 

The Tank protects the Healer from burst, the Healer protects the Tank from sustained damage and 2 DPS even focus firing the Healer in the pair down will find that they are having an almost impossible time of it.

 

Yes, there are tactics that can stop it... Knocking the Tank away from the Healer and rooting the Tank so that they can't get back in range to support each other for one. But every suit of armor has a weak point in it.

Edited July 1, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[BurnsTwoThree]

Fungi, healers have adapted. Those that learned how (and yes this includes Sorcs and Sages) are doing okay. Yes they need to cross heal, yes they need people to guard them, but they can and do turn the tide. I know you hate Marauders and Sentinels and I know you want them nerfed however things are actually fine.

.

 

We get it. You want PvP to not actually be PvP but rather something that conforms to your backpeddling, clicking and attack whatever you want playstyle. That's not how PvP should be and in the future if it doesn't change people aren't going to want to play this game because the PvP doesn't allow healers to actually play.

 

 

 

Just because you play Sentinels/Marauders does not make them okay. There's NO evidence as to why they should ever hit as hard as they do with almost 100% uptime, dots, and plenty of interrupts and CC. Your class is FoTM and I'm sure you are excited that you don't actually have to be good at the class to do well anymore, cause everyone here already knows you're not; but it still does not make this kind of damage alright.

 

 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=3463qs3&s=6

This will never be okay to be hit for 30-40% of your health pool in one GCD

This will never be okay for one GCD that has a CD of like 9 seconds

This will never be an okay amount of damage with no relic/no adrenals in RANKED PVP

 

If our biggest heal does not crit, it would take 3 heals to just barely do more healing than that.

Our biggest heal takes 2.2 seconds to cast, that would mean it would take 6.6 seconds to completely undo that damage if we did not get a crit.

 

When you have a logical answer and have numbers to support it come back to this thread. If you have a butthurt reply as to why YOUR CLASS SHOULDNT GET NERFED because you won't be able to jump and down on your keyboard and still get kills; then please escort yourself to the PvE forums where there are therapists and tissues there waiting for you.

 

Oh and please stay there for awhile.

 

 

You seriously need to get out of the mindset that Healers are Tanks in PVP. In TOR they aren't. They are insanely vulnerable to burst but are very good at holding off sustained damage. Tanks are highly resistant to burst but are eventually defeated by sustained damage. You put a Tank and a Healer together and they make sweet, sweet, music together.

 

Please link wherever anybody said that we SHOULD be the tanks of this game. Please do.

 

 

You won't find it because no one has said that. The only person that thinks we're saying that is you because you have no logical argument to what we are actually saying here.

 

Healers healing themselves while taking damage ≠ tanking. Of course healing ourselves just means we're going to take more damage, but yet that still has nothing to do with tanking. You might want to research up on what a tank really is because you're highly disillusioned.

 

Usually people come on the forums to make themselves look good because a lot of the time they are bad in-game. To each their own, but seriously why come on the forums and purposely make yourself look bad by not knowing what anything is or how things work.

Edited July 1, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[fungihoujo]

Fungi, healers have adapted. Those that learned how (and yes this includes Sorcs and Sages) are doing okay. Yes they need to cross heal, yes they need people to guard them, but they can and do turn the tide. I know you hate Marauders and Sentinels and I know you want them nerfed however things are actually fine.

 

Go look at rated teams.

 

Have you seen a single rated team that has 8 DPS classes? Of course not. Every really good rated team is running 2-3 healers 2-3 tanks and 2-3 DPS.

 

Some are running:

2 Healers, 2 Tanks, 4 DPS as well but they tend to not do as well.

 

Things are not as bad as you keep thinking they are. This patch nerfed cross healing a bit and did absolutely reduce burst. This was not going to nerf DPS. DPS doesn't need a nerf. This is just a learning how to play a healer in a non-wow environment situation.

 

Edit:

There also is at least one rated team I saw running 4 Healer 4 Tank and that one was a nightmare to try to beat on Voidstar or Alderaan Civil War.

 

You seriously need to get out of the mindset that Healers are Tanks in PVP. In TOR they aren't. They are insanely vulnerable to burst but are very good at holding off sustained damage. Tanks are highly resistant to burst but are eventually defeated by sustained damage. You put a Tank and a Healer together and they make sweet, sweet, music together.

 

The Tank protects the Healer from burst, the Healer protects the Tank from sustained damage and 2 DPS even focus firing the Healer in the pair down will find that they are having an almost impossible time of it.

 

Yes, there are tactics that can stop it... Knocking the Tank away from the Healer and rooting the Tank so that they can't get back in range to support each other for one. But every suit of armor has a weak point in it.

 

We get it prof- you play a sentinel, you love that you can kill someone in 3 seconds during a root without having to have any skill, and I don't blame you for wanting to keep your EZ mode free wins that you can now get with how insanely buffed up DPS are.

 

The fact is- damage has been uncontrollably buffed up with each patch, especially for marauders- marauders are doing almost double the damage that they were doing in champ gear- while healers are doing maybe 10% more healing. I could barely hit 5k heal trophies back when I was in champ gear as a sorc in January- I can still barely hit that 5k heal trophy in augmented, mostly BM, part WH gear now.

 

And it'll get worse- if they continue to remove the ability to get heals off, and throw in easier to move, off the GCD abilities for DPS while upping gear that scales considerably better for damage dealers, then damage is going to continue to go up at rates that are 2, 3, 5 times faster than healing scales.

 

You're the only one who can't see that such a massive disparity is a problem.

 

You're playing a class that has an uninterruptable ability that also roots and hits for over 10k damage, a trauma debuff that stacks with the permanent 30% debuff to healing- which can be kept up permanently. An interrupt that can permanently keep a healer's main heal locked out- and a bonus interrupt on leap to top it off, or interrupt CD heals to waste them. You have a DoT that ticks for over 5x what our only HoT (also only instant heal) ticks for in your dots spec.

 

It's fine to say 'just don't facetank a sentinel', but when that sentinel can keep you rooted for 39 seconds, through resolve, per minute- plus reduce your healing by another 20% all the time, plus hit you in three seconds for what would take 7.5 seconds of healing to heal back, plus has a permanent speed buff, plus can leap on a much lower CD than your only escape, plus has an instant mez to counter your cast mez, has a stun that can halt your force speed in place to not even need to use leap, plus has nothing but instant damage dealers, plus has the ability to interrupt all of your cast heals, and with speed buffs will always be able to get in distance to leap to you when you take the 2.5 seconds to heal yourself, plus has a slow that has no CD and lasts twice as long as your own snare which has a CD twice as long as it's duration, plus has multiple defensive CDs to counter your zero, plus simply does straight up far more damage than your healing output even if you weren't being interrupted- you don't get a choice.

 

You're going to be rooted, snared, interrupted all the time, you will have to move but won't be able to, and you will lose all your healing while you move. You have to stay still to heal, but if you stay still you die.

 

 

But you don't need to believe me. Try it for yourself. Get on your fully WH/augmented DPS character, blow some CDs and lay out some hits- look at the numbers you produce. Then, put on a set of recruit gear (which is better than the champ gear, but even so), do some hits, look at those numbers.

 

Then do the same as a healer.

 

You will see the difference in numbers for a healer is pitiful compared to the difference for a DPS- it's simply a fact that healers scale atrociously while DPS scales incredibly well with gear- and as gear continues to get better, TTK is going to continue to drop while healing is going to inch forward- unless they do something about it.

 

 

But please- continue your line of 'healers just wanna be tanks'. Wanting to be able to survive more than two GCDs with two people on you is NOT wanting to be a tank- if I wanted to play Battlefield 3 and deal with getting killed in under 3 seconds any time someone looked at me- I'd put the disc in my PS3. This is not an FPS, and BW needs to stop buffing DPS like it is.

Edited July 1, 2012 by fungihoujo

[Murder_Toys]

Hello guys

 

I know am going to sound like a total *** or sound big headed but I really don t have a problem with healing and getting jumped on as a sorc .. yes every now and then someone would mark me as a healer . but i can use that to my advantage and drag people around from capping because they so hell bent on killing the healer.

 

My job as I see it is to keep people alive and crowd control and stuns and hang back .

also I see no real point in wearing the War hero shell ( green or purple suit) just letting people " hey i am a healer mark em ) I like to go orange gear , keep my foes guessing =)

 

as a sorc that only heal's in WZI can t speak for dps

 

Thats my 2 cents

 

Edited July 1, 2012 by Murder_Toys

[BurnsTwoThree]

Hello guys

 

I know am going to sound like a total *** or sound big headed but I really don t have a problem with healing and getting jumped on as a sorc .. yes every now and then someone would mark me as a healer . but i can use that to my advantage and drag people around from capping because they so hell bent on killing the healer.

 

My job as I see it is to keep people alive and crowd control and stuns and hang back .

also I see no real point in wearing the War hero shell ( green or purple suit) just letting people " hey i am a healer mark em ) I like to go orange gear , keep my foes guessing =)

 

as a sorc that only heal's in WZI can t speak for dps

 

Thats my 2 cents

 

 

I feel as though you are one of those people who are average at everything they do and are beyond content with that.

 

I also feel like you're talking about Regular WZs, because if you're in Ranked you wouldn't be saying you are having no problems

Edited July 1, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[fungihoujo]

Hello guys

 

I know am going to sound like a total *** or sound big headed but I really don t have a problem with healing and getting jumped on as a sorc .. yes every now and then someone would mark me as a healer . but i can use that to my advantage and drag people around from capping because they so hell bent on killing the healer.

 

My job as I see it is to keep people alive and crowd control and stuns and hang back .

also I see no real point in wearing the War hero shell ( green or purple suit) just letting people " hey i am a healer mark em ) I like to go orange gear , keep my foes guessing =)

 

as a sorc that only heal's in WZI can t speak for dps

 

Thats my 2 cents

 

 

I'm sure the look of your gear has players fooled- none of them look at your health bar.

[NoTomorrow]

All healers have a psychological problem because they only get satisfaction from games where they:

1. Never die

2. Never get focused

3. Are allowed to free cast and heal everybody effortleslly.

 

If they dont get these, they come on forums and whine, like OP.

[fungihoujo]

All healers have a psychological problem because they only get satisfaction from games where they:

1. Never die

2. Never get focused

3. Are allowed to free cast and heal everybody effortleslly.

 

If they dont get these, they come on forums and whine, like OP.

 

All DPS have a psychological problem because they only get satisfaction from games where they:

1. Get kills

2. Don't have to waste time interrupting or CCing

3. Are able to tunnel vision and three shot everything they come across effortlessly

 

If they don't get these, they come on forums and whine, like they have for months asking for healer nerfs and buffs to DPS.

[NoTomorrow]

All DPS have a psychological problem because they only get satisfaction from games where they:

1. Get kills

2. Don't have to waste time interrupting or CCing

3. Are able to tunnel vision and three shot everything they come across effortlessly

 

If they don't get these, they come on forums and whine, like they have for months asking for healer nerfs and buffs to DPS.

 

We get kills. We interrupt (too bad my sniper has a 12 cd on interrupt). We dont have tunnel visions. We focus fire the stupid healers that are being guarded. And we also die. What we never want is a team of More than 3 healers being able to

 

1. Cross heal.

2. Aoe heal,

3. Stay alive indefinetely being able to guard whatever objective ad infinitum.

 

Its easy to say focus fire and interrupt, but i want to see you as a dps killing a team of 5 healers. You will not kill crap.

 

This idiotic trololol we heal everything teams must die.

Edited July 1, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[fungihoujo]

We get kills. We interrupt (too bad my sniper has a 12 cd on interrupt). We dont have tunnel visions. We focus fire the stupid healers that are being guarded. And we also die. What we never want is a team of More than 3 healers being able to

 

1. Cross heal.

2. Aoe heal,

3. Stay alive indefinetely being able to guard whatever objective ad infinitum.

 

Its easy to say focus fire and interrupt, but i want to see you as a dps killing a team of 5 healers. You will not kill crap.

 

This idiotic trololol we heal everything teams must die.

 

And I'd like to see you as a healer keep yourself up with 5 DPS on you.

 

These idiotic trololol 3 shot wonder DPS must die.

[DaedalusV]

Don't take the troll bait. we've got this topic up to 20+ pages of more or less quality posts.

I'll be amazed if bioware won't do anything to help out sages soon'ish. Because right now, if you bring a sage to a ranked match, you start with a weak link in your setup. Take two sages and you'll be ripped to shreds.

 

TBH the only use sages have in ranked atm is being bait and using a hybrid heals for the extra CC/off-healing. No other spec is viable (unless the dude/dudette behind the screen is godlike at playing a sage)

[spaace]

If anyone actually plays the game at a competitive level they might actually know whats going on.

 

 

Sage healers have nothing compared to Smugglers and Commandos..

 

Smug/commandos have "oh ****" buttons, an ability to make a big quick heal...

 

It's ok.. we got force speed, to get back from the graveyard quicker..

[fungihoujo]

Don't take the troll bait. we've got this topic up to 20+ pages of more or less quality posts.

I'll be amazed if bioware won't do anything to help out sages soon'ish. Because right now, if you bring a sage to a ranked match, you start with a weak link in your setup. Take two sages and you'll be ripped to shreds.

 

TBH the only use sages have in ranked atm is being bait and using a hybrid heals for the extra CC/off-healing. No other spec is viable (unless the dude/dudette behind the screen is godlike at playing a sage)

 

Except, we've been saying this since the PTS for 1.2. Frankly, with the uncontrolled DPS that scales considerably better, resolve that'll go from full to nothing while you're stuck in roots, knockbacks that stun you out of the game when you die to them, VS bomb exploits that have been there since launch, promise of ranked in 1.2 and promise of solo and premade turning into premade at 1.3 and no solo in sight, the failure that is Wintergrasp turning into no world PVP at all without any hints that world pvp is being brought back this year....

 

 

I think I have good reason to have zero faith in BW's pvp team. I know, on the forums, you have lots of people who complain mindlessly and similar with people who just say 'l2p' mindlessly back- but we've brought out the numbers, skill by skill comparisons, and full class write outs and none of them add up to logical balancing. I also know on the forums that people will constantly say they're going to quit when things don't go their way- but when 400k people quit after a patch MAYBE that's time to realize that it was a bad decision.

 

When BW defends all their decisions with 'our metrics say so' and add nothing else- sorry BW, do you have a calculator doing all your balancing for pvp?

 

I was fine defending BW's rocky start in pvp because the game started with decent balance, it was fun, and people were enjoying it- and we thought things would only get better. Yet, every single patch they make the pvp aspect of the game worse. GW2 is coming out- and frankly I don't want to be playing GW2, I want to play this game... but this game doesn't have good pvp, and the direction this game is continually going means that damage is going to be even higher next patch, healing will be the same, DPS operatives will be nerfed because they have to be in every patch, and zero problems will be fixed.

 

 

Oh wait, scratch that- the marauder carnage and annhilation specs are both among the best specs for DPS in the game, but rage is falling behind- so Rage will get a large buff to fix that problem. Heaven forbid marauders have one bad tree for pvp while several other classes have ZERO good dps specs.

[ProfessorWalsh]

And I'd like to see you as a healer keep yourself up with 5 DPS on you.

 

He wouldn't and he isn't supposed to be able to.

 

He is also right. You don't know anything about playing a DPS and assume that it is simply faceroll easy. You have no idea how much skill it actually takes. I have played a Healer, I have played DPS and I can tell you there isn't much difference as far as skill requirements go. I found it easier to play Healer than DPS.

 

Yes, Healers have a survivability problem.

DPS also has a survivability problem.

 

So me adapting to "having to run the moment anyone actually attacks me" wasn't that hard. You for some reason want your healer to work like a Tank and that ain't happening.

Edited July 1, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[ProfessorWalsh]

Healers healing themselves while taking damage ≠ tanking. Of course healing ourselves just means we're going to take more damage, but yet that still has nothing to do with tanking. You might want to research up on what a tank really is because you're highly disillusioned.

 

No. If you are able to heal yourself to the point that you cannot die, which is what Fungi wants, then that is tanking. If you are able to take a DPS going all out on you and/or a focus fire on your own then you are a Tank. In fact you are better than a Tank in that case. If you can prevent others from dying then you are a Tank.

 

In TOR Tanks do 2 things:

 

1. They survive being attacked.

2. They reduce/negate some or all of the damage a single teammate takes.

 

Effectively a Healer does a similar role...

 

They reduce/negate some or all of the damage a single and multiple teammates take.

 

A Tank is stuck to protecting a single target. A Healer can protect up to their whole team. The main thing that sets the two apart is that since a Tank can't protect multiple people at once he/she has more personal survivability. If a Healer can handle a lone DPS without assistance then they have:

 

1. They survive being attacked.

2. They reduce/negate some or all of the damage a single teammate takes.

3. They reduce/negate some or all of the damage multiple teammates take.

 

They suddenly become better than Tanks.

[Sevaar]

Apparently healers (mostly Sorcs/Sages) are meant to be free kills and tied to the hip of another class (Tanks) to survive.

 

Why so mad if healers can stale mate one dps in a 1v1 situation?

 

It's OK for healers to die 1v1 but it's not OK for a healer to negate the dps of one person in a 1v1 situation.

 

That sounds fair, impartial, and balanced.

 

Make a damage reduction version of Trauma, remove burst, and bring all dps down to the level of Sorc/Sages.

 

Sit back and watch the tears and QQ flood the forums.

 

Oh, it wouldn't be OK then? Why wouldn't it be OK for you but OK for us?

 

Tell me... have you seem any healer crit 5 people at once, every 2 minutess + setup time of course, for 7k to 8k healing? Snaps, me neither. But I'm sure you've lost count the amount of times you've seen a dps do that in rated and regular WZ.

 

Apparently a double standard exists and it only benefits dps.

 

Remove Trauma. Make Sent/Mara healing debuff 50%. Either reduce, by half, the damage of abilities such as Sweep/Smash or give my salvation the ability to crit that high on ONE tick; every 2 minutes + setup time, of course! -=)

[Ntranced]

He is also right. You don't know anything about playing a DPS and assume that it is simply faceroll easy. You have no idea how much skill it actually takes. I have played a Healer, I have played DPS and I can tell you there isn't much difference as far as skill requirements go. I found it easier to play Healer than DPS.

 

What? Who doesn't know anything about playing DPS? You think all the heal classes in this game can't also switch to DPS? You think healers don't also have multiple chars? Personally I've got more DPS chars than heal accounts, and my operative would still be DPS Concealment spec'd if it hasn't been nerfed in to the ground every patch.

 

How hard is it to play a DPS? It is the easiest thing in the world, you have a set of skills you use in a rough order depending on circumstance. You probably have to manage or build resources. Taking those two minor points our of the equation the rest is as simple as it gets. Most DPS can just faceroll and get the job done on any healer right now.

 

DPS also has a survivability problem..

 

No **** Sherlock. If you had any in the first place you blew all your credibility right there. DPS have a survivability problem (once they blow all the defensive CDs available to them and their SELF HEALS are all done or not specced in to) because there are no healers taking care of you. That is because they were all facerolled to death in 4 GCDs by DPS.

 

Are you by any chance James Ohlen? Serious question, you both seem to share the same delusion. Neither of you will appear to be happy until all the healers have re-rolled or quit.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Ntranced

[ProfessorWalsh]

Apparently healers (mostly Sorcs/Sages) are meant to be free kills and tied to the hip of another class (Tanks) to survive.

 

Why so mad if healers can stale mate one dps in a 1v1 situation?

 

It's OK for healers to die 1v1 but it's not OK for a healer to negate the dps of one person in a 1v1 situation.

 

That sounds fair, impartial, and balanced.

 

Make a damage reduction version of Trauma, remove burst, and bring all dps down to the level of Sorc/Sages.

 

Sit back and watch the tears and QQ flood the forums.

 

Oh, it wouldn't be OK then? Why wouldn't it be OK for you but OK for us?

 

Tell me... have you seem any healer crit 5 people at once, every 2 minutess + setup time of course, for 7k to 8k healing? Snaps, me neither. But I'm sure you've lost count the amount of times you've seen a dps do that in rated and regular WZ.

 

Apparently a double standard exists and it only benefits dps.

 

Remove Trauma. Make Sent/Mara healing debuff 50%. Either reduce, by half, the damage of abilities such as Sweep/Smash or give my salvation the ability to crit that high on ONE tick; every 2 minutes + setup time, of course! -=)

 

There is no double standard.

 

You aren't looking at it correctly.

 

Each role has two primary "jobs" and/or capabilities in PVP. There are 5 capabilities in PVP.

 

1. Reduce/Negate damage done to a single team mate.

2. Reduce/Negate damage done to multiple team mates.

3. Deal damage to a single enemy.

4. Deal damage to multiple enemies.

5. Mitigate damage done to themselves.

 

Healer:

1. Reduce/Negate damage done to a single team mate.

2. Reduce/Negate damage done to multiple team mates.

 

Tank:

1. Mitigate damage done to themselves.

2. Reduce/Negate damage done to a single team mate.

 

DPS:

1. Deal Damage to a single enemy.

2. Mitigate damage done to themselves.

(Alternate) 2. Deal damage to multiple enemies.

 

Now yes... DPS classes are the only classes in the game right now that have an alternate secondary capability. There are also 8 out of 8 possible DPS advanced classes.

 

If you notice the classes that have personal survivability tend to only do single target damage or are specced to "bomb" multiple enemy targets. Some DPS have little to no ability to mitigate but can also do Single and/or Multiple target damage. You don't find DPS that can reliably do all three.

 

As a Healer you accept that you can Heal others, and you can Heal yourself. Your self-healing however is not the capability to mitigate damage done to you. That is a different ability than healing. That is what differentiates personal damage mitigation from negating/mitigating damage done to others.

 

Again, if you had personal survivability you are infringing on one of the traits possessed by Tanks and to a lesser extent DPS. There are also varying degrees of this.

 

Now I know some Marauder/Sentinel hater will go:

"BUT SENTINEL AND MARA CAN HEAL SELF AND TEAM!!!!!111"

 

And yes, one spec can do that, for a whole 2% (approximately 400 damage on someone with 20,000 health) per tick, depending on critical hits on burn attacks, which is far far weaker than the minimum group PVP heal.

 

You as a healer cannot get personal survivability without breaking the balance of the game. It cannot happen.

 

Maybe in the future BioWare will create a new class that can have personal survivability and the ability to heal single target only, but I doubt it. Such a thing would be a better tank than a tank. This is because the second of a Tank's abilities, the ability to guard, is more or less the same purpose as healing.

 

Edit:

For those of you who will try to argue semantics on that last point...

 

If I, as a DPS, take 2,000 damage from an enemy's hit, and you as a Healer heal me for 1,000 damage, as far as I am concerned I took 1,000 damage. When all is said and done the damage that remains after the heal is the damage that matters.

 

If I, as a DPS, take 2,000 damage from an enemy's hit, and you as a Tank have me on guard thus making it so I only took 1,000 damage then when all is said and done the damage that remains after the guard is the only damage that matters.

 

Effectively both abilities serve the same purpose.

Edited July 1, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Sevaar]

You as a healer cannot get personal survivability without breaking the balance of the game. It cannot happen.

 

This right here, my son, broke your argument to pieces.

 

Why? Well... you see Timmy... play the damn game.

 

Sage/Sorc healers/dps having personal survivability breaks the game.

 

Tanks having personal survivability and dps does not break the game.

 

Any OTHER DPS having personal survivability does not break the game.

 

See the double standard?

Edited July 1, 2012 by Sevaar

[Elear]

Healers SHOULD NOT REQUIRE GUARD TO LIVE THROUGH 2 PEOPLE

So it should take 3 people to kill lone healer.

4 if he got guard.

5 if tank also taunts/peels.

10 if he gets help from another heal?

 

It's been said countless times - healer with tank can't be worth much more than 2 DPS because this would make any combination other than 4 heals 4 tanks useless.

 

Expertise favors DPS classes giving the most scaling to PvP damage boost. (24.48% damage vs 13.57% healing boost @ 1332 expertise).

 

You forgot to mention damage reduction that cancels out damage increase(unbeliveable) so assuming their victims aren't running around in PvE sets DPS doesn't get any noticeable boost.

 

Healers have to work against the 30% reduced incoming healing debuff known as Trauma.

 

Everyone has to. This is magic rule saying healing in PvP is 30% weaker than in PvE. It could be other way, healing in PvE could be 42% stronger, but it's easier to implement this way, and allows expertise to have some use fore healers beside survivability., because effects of this debuff are reduced by healing boost.

 

 

Sure, most Sage/Sorc players fold like cardhouses, but it doesn't mean it's entirely fault of AC. There are ones that can do just fine 1v1, but they are rather rare. That would indicate that skill level required to play Sage healer properly is above average, and this problem has been recognized long ago by BW.

[Sevaar]

It's been said countless times - healer with tank can't be worth much more than 2 DPS because this would make any combination other than 4 heals 4 tanks useless.

 

So I stopped here because according to you, 2 players should not equal 2 players.

 

Hmmm... tank + healer negating 2 dps by using their available tools...

 

That's so unfair.

 

The thread is not about Healers in general, it is about SAGES/SORCS.

 

You know, those cloth wearers you run all over 1v1 and group v group.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Sevaar

[Elear]

So I stopped here because according to you, 2 players should not equal 2 players.

 

Hmmm... tank + healer negating 2 dps by using their available tools...

 

That's so unfair.

 

The thread is not about Healers in general, it is about SAGES/SORCS.

I know you have issues with comprehension, but you should work on them.

'Much more' means more or less same thing as '>='(and if you don't know what it means, there is no hope for you)

 

And in case you haven't noticed: this thread isn'y only about sages/sorcs since page one.

[Sevaar]

I know you have issues with comprehension, but you should work on them.

'Much more' means more or less same thing as '>='(and if you don't know what it means, there is no hope for you)

 

And in case you haven't noticed: this thread isn'y only about sages/sorcs since page one.

 

You blew mind mind with your Logic putting 2 classes that negate damage vs 2 classes that produce damage. Also why can't your 2 dps chain interrupt or CC?

 

Sorc/Sage heals need to be returned to pre 1.2, other heals need buffs

 

That's my class, this is why I responded.

 

My mind... it's blown...