A solution to the loss of names due to transfers

[Darth_Halford]

Yes, I did see all of it. I for one, am against displaying anything relating to my account, wether it's the actual name or a tag. By displaying that tag, people can deduce characters on that account, across all factions and servers. The only way that you should be able to figure out the characters I play is if I tell you.

 

This is not me being elitist. I'm simply getting annoyed that I have to repeat myself so often. I'll feel better when the fallacious appeal to pity or appeal to the masses stop.

[RaithHarth]

Except that it is exactly what bugjuice suggested.

 

 

 

Wee, we get to ride the merry-go-round yet again. I hope you pay better attention.

A) because you don't start with a Legacy Name

B) per A, The system identifies your character through the first name that it was created under. Without a Legacy, or other identifier, there's no way to "unlock" that.

C) If A were made untrue, that would weaken the value of having a Legacy and the rewards would need to be retooled.

D) Showing your Legacy name is an optional feature, and most players seem to take the option of hiding their Legacy.

E) Per D, there is no mechanic that makes this work without alienating those players, which is just as bad as forcing Wraith to "lose his identity"

 

Like I said countless of times a similar system worked in "Pirates of the Burning Sea" with no complaints, so I don't see why this can't work for SWTOR either, the account name won't be visible for anyone to see, it will be like it is now except names will be inter-linked with account names instead with a unlimited approach to naming characters instead of having a per server approach where names are limited.

 

Some even suggested having our legacy names added at the very beginning of gameplay so we can adjust to the mechanics easier.

 

For the players that prefer hiding their legacy names well why not introduce tag tables to preferences for players that like using the single username route without revealing there legacy, how this will work I haven't really thought it through yet but at least it's more than what you have came up with.

 

Instead of putting down ideas that could very well upgrade this community why not offer your own suggestions rather than dismissing the fact that this could actually work?

[Darth_Halford]

Like I said countless of times a similar system worked in "Pirates of the Burning Sea" with no complaints, so I don't see why this can't work for SWTOR either, the account name won't be visible for anyone to see, it will be like it is now except names will be inter-linked with account names instead with a unlimited approach to naming characters instead of having a per server approach where names are limited.

 

Some even suggested having our legacy names added at the very beginning of gameplay so we can adjust to the mechanics easier.

 

For the players that prefer hiding their legacy names well why not introduce tag tables to preferences for players that like using the single username route without revealing there legacy, how this will work I haven't really thought it through yet but at least it's more than what you have came up with.

 

Instead of putting down ideas that could very well upgrade this community why not offer your own suggestions rather than dismissing the fact that this could actually work?

Really? You really can't tell why we can't do it? despite it being spelt out for you a half dozen times? Do you just ignore anything that doesn't align with what you want things to be?

 

I'll make as easy possible for you to understand. It can't be like Burning Sea because this isn't Burning Sea. somewhat elaborated, character names aren't just "dummy code" in this game like it is in Burning Sea.

 

If the account name isn't visible than how do we differentiate individuals from one another? Forcing to show Legacy? I've already covered that

 

Have Legacy be a Level 1 thing? I've already touched on that as well.

 

Implementing "tags" per account? I've already explained why that can't work.

Why don't I write down ideas that could actually work? It's twofold. One, I've already suggested that you man up about this. That suggestion actually works. Two,even if the coding exists, there is no way to make this work without alienating another group of individuals, who are likely more numerous than you.

 

You haven't thought it through yet? No kidding. That's been evident since day 1. You're making this up as you go, willilng to tweak and adjust it however you can to get what it is you want, regardless of the possibility, practicality, or how it may affect other players.

[monkgryphon]

For the players that prefer hiding their legacy names well why not introduce tag tables to preferences for players that like using the single username route without revealing there legacy, how this will work I haven't really thought it through yet but at least it's more than what you have came up with.

 

No, because you're still forcing me to do something I don't want to do. Same thing Bioware did to people who had to change names. You're going to get your way, and irk a whole separate group of players. I don't want anything identifying my characters to each other, whether it's a tag or username. Same reason why I can hide my legacy name. I want to have a couple characters that are completely anonymous, but not to the point where I cannot function with random people I interact with.

Edited June 29, 2012 by monkgryphon

[capitalbel]

The problem was never with the naming policy. The problem was the need for server transfers.

 

Ideally you'd make your character and never have to change your name. BUT mistakes were made, populations were unbearable and servers had to 'merge'.

 

This meant that some people lost names that they developed a strong association with/put a lot of effort into obtaining.

 

As I've stated I do not like to display my legacy name.

 

only one John per server would be allowed to do so, having 2 or 5 johns hiding their legacy name would make things too complicated, unless you go by Jon instead of John then it would be accessable.

 

Or maybe it's just better off eliminating hiding legacy names altogether at least it wouldn't complicate things.

 

For one I do not like the idea of forcing legacy names to be visible. Some people have really long legacy names, that would make their first name, legacy name, title, extremely long and unwieldy. Some people RP and not all first name/last name combos go together. Losing names hasn't hurt everybody. Implementing forced display of legacy names could hurt more people AND hurt people that lost their names even more. Not to mention the changes that would need to be made to implement this system, it also wouldn't solve the problem of confusing characters:

 

Imagine that you have these characters in your guild/warzone/party:

 

1. John Smith

2. John Fantastic

3. Jane Smith

 

If you want to speak to/ refer to one of them for whatever reason, can you imagine how much confusion that would cause?

 

Yes it's workable, you could type their whole name, you can delegate nicknames, etc. BUT at the expense of how much additional organizing.

 

OR what if you have an in-game friend/guild leader/officer by the name of John Smith. You wanted to speak to them and you see Jane Smith running around. Is it the same person?

 

At the very least, either first name or legacy name should be unique. I actually like the unique first name system. And there wouldn't be a problem with this system if not for character transfers. Character transfers created a whole range of problems for people. Though not as big though as the problem it fixed in my opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong with suggesting ideas. I just don't agree with this one.

 

As far as I'm concerned what's happened has already happened. And once again, at least you'll probably never have to change names again, which is a good enough solution for me.

[Dalaell]

Oooh another thread.

 

I'm all for it, but seems a few people just prefer an archaic limited system as we have now.

[ModaanOfTarq]

I used this when I played SWG and we were "asked" to transfer off our galaxy. Basically, use the friends list, here's what I mean:

 

If your toon is going to be Imperial, log in a "test" toon (not actual name you're wanting to be). After you get through the story-line, try to add your name to your friends list. If it says it's an invalid player, your name isn't taken. If you're able to add it, sorry, someone has taken the name!

 

[ If going to be Republic, do the same ]

 

This worked because SWG's naming system wasn't too quick on removing inactive accounts/names from the game. I am unsure how StarWars/Old Republic works, so this all may not even be necessary.

[RaithHarth]

The problem was never with the naming policy. The problem was the need for server transfers.

 

Ideally you'd make your character and never have to change your name. BUT mistakes were made, populations were unbearable and servers had to 'merge'.

 

This meant that some people lost names that they developed a strong association with/put a lot of effort into obtaining.

 

As I've stated I do not like to display my legacy name.

 

 

 

For one I do not like the idea of forcing legacy names to be visible. Some people have really long legacy names, that would make their first name, legacy name, title, extremely long and unwieldy. Some people RP and not all first name/last name combos go together. Losing names hasn't hurt everybody. Implementing forced display of legacy names could hurt more people AND hurt people that lost their names even more. Not to mention the changes that would need to be made to implement this system, it also wouldn't solve the problem of confusing characters:

 

Imagine that you have these characters in your guild/warzone/party:

 

1. John Smith

2. John Fantastic

3. Jane Smith

 

If you want to speak to/ refer to one of them for whatever reason, can you imagine how much confusion that would cause?

 

Yes it's workable, you could type their whole name, you can delegate nicknames, etc. BUT at the expense of how much additional organizing.

 

OR what if you have an in-game friend/guild leader/officer by the name of John Smith. You wanted to speak to them and you see Jane Smith running around. Is it the same person?

 

At the very least, either first name or legacy name should be unique. I actually like the unique first name system. And there wouldn't be a problem with this system if not for character transfers. Character transfers created a whole range of problems for people. Though not as big though as the problem it fixed in my opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong with suggesting ideas. I just don't agree with this one.

 

As far as I'm concerned what's happened has already happened. And once again, at least you'll probably never have to change names again, which is a good enough solution for me.

 

Now there is a need for a naming policy fix, was the transfers really worth it? now it seems a good majority of players have gave up even trying to name their characters, because all the good names are taken, it's not easy naming a specific character, you don't just pick any name and go with it. I don't want to sound like a self absorbed individual that wants change, I don't speak for everyone but at least I gave one of the best ideas out there, if any of you can come up with anything better, please enlighten me, but don't say "accept what we got and move on" the system I offered is identical to the one used in "Pirates of the Burning Sea" at least it gave players a unlimited selection rather than what most MMO's provide.

 

I refuse to play until there is a change and I'm certain I'm not the only one who feels that way!

Edited July 4, 2012 by RaithHarth

[Anathar]

bioware wont do anything that leads to them admitting they were wrong in the first place.

 

every time i post about this they send me private messages warning me to shut up..as you can see i will not do that because im the one paying YOU bioware..not the other way around.

 

i dont want a simple name change ..i want my toons put back on their original server...with their original names intact.

 

the simple fact i have paid to play this game in the past should be reason enough for bioware to want to do what i ask.

 

but the only thing they do is appologize for not doing what i want from them --indeed not doing what they get paid to do-- then continue not doing it. then thank me for my "understanding" about it.

 

why does bioware even have customer service when they dont care about their customers nor do they offer service when the people paying them ask for it...?

Edited July 4, 2012 by Anathar

[monkgryphon]

Now there is a need for a naming policy fix, was the transfers really worth it? now it seems a good majority of players have gave up even trying to name their characters, because all the good names are taken, it's not easy naming a specific character, you don't just pick any name and go with it. I don't want to sound like a self absorbed individual that wants change, I don't speak for everyone but at least I gave one of the best ideas out there, if any of you can come up with anything better, please enlighten me, but don't say "accept what we got and move on" the system I offered is identical to the one used in "Pirates of the Burning Sea" at least it gave players a unlimited selection rather than what most MMO's provide.

 

I refuse to play until there is a change and I'm certain I'm not the only one who feels that way!

 

Seriously, all the good names? Tell me, what is a good name? Also, I love how you come up with the idea of how a 'majority' gave up, yet then state you do not speak for everyone and are not a self-absorbed individual. You seem exactly like that, especially with that hypocrisy.

 

You think you gave one of the best ideas out there. How did Pirates of the Burning Sea handle server transfers? I bet some people had to change one of their names to be different. Did they get a second chance at keeping their names? I'm quite sure they did not.

 

If you refuse to play, then thank you for supporting this game with your subscription.

Edited July 4, 2012 by monkgryphon

[RAZIMx]

If legacy names were the only unique identifier, chosen when a player creates their first character on a server, it'd be easier to have a much larger namespace. Avoiding the usual unnecessary vowel bloating of names.

 

e.g.

legacy = lu'cas

children : george.lu'cas, bob.lu'cas, sally.lu'cas, pablo.lu'cas, mary.lu'cas

 

Each character would be unique to the server but wouldn't lock out other players from having a cosmetic first name or alias. In chat they would still be bob.lu'cas even if they only chose to show Darth Bob as their visible name.

 

* The only other way to preserve privacy with that method that would be to mask the bob.lu'cas identifier with their playable name 'bob' and hope most people just chat in dedicated channels and don't need to whisper with slash commands. (If the legacy is hidden, mask the chat name.)

 

If you want to mail that user, they would have to give you their actual address "bob.lu'cas". As in real life, your not tossing your address out to strangers. Guild/Party invites should be available through chat context (right-click) menus on the player's name. I forget if we already have that level of chat functionality at the moment.

Edited July 5, 2012 by RAZIMx

[monkgryphon]

* The only other way to preserve privacy with that method that would be to mask the bob.lu'cas identifier with their playable name 'bob' and hope most people just chat in dedicated channels and don't need to whisper with slash commands. (If the legacy is hidden, mask the chat name.)

 

If you want to mail that user, they would have to give you their actual address "bob.lu'cas". As in real life, your not tossing your address out to strangers. Guild/Party invites should be available through chat context (right-click) menus on the player's name. I forget if we already have that level of chat functionality at the moment.

 

What if there were two bob with hidden legacy? How would you solve that one? I also don't need to chat to use the Group Finder, and still don't need to chat while doing the content.

Edited July 5, 2012 by monkgryphon

[RAZIMx]

What if there were two bob with hidden legacy? How would you solve that one? I also don't need to chat to use the Group Finder, and still don't need to chat while doing the content.

 

If people want to get really private, in chat they could just tag a number on the end. It'd be based on login/privacy-enabled time and how many concurrent players with the first name 'bob' are online and are hiding their legacy. Hiding the legacy any time after login would just make you the next number on the list.

 

A more basic solution: you could just color code the players' chat names based on class. Red Bob is the sith juggernaut.. Purple Bob is the sith sorcerer. It'd be rare to see that many people with the same name in a group chatting and worried about their legacy privacy though. Usually, from what I've observed, group communication is directed at either your class, spec, or your current role.. or in some cases a player's choice of light side or dark side conversation choices rather than your name.

Edited July 5, 2012 by RAZIMx

[monkgryphon]

If people want to get really private, in chat they could just tag a number on the end. It'd be based on login/privacy-enabled time and how many concurrent players with the first name 'bob' are online and are hiding their legacy. Hiding the legacy any time after login would just make you the next number on the list.

 

A more basic solution: you could just color code the players' chat names based on class. Red Bob is the sith juggernaut.. Purple Bob is the sith sorcerer. It'd be rare to see that many people with the same name in a group chatting and worried about their legacy privacy though. Usually, from what I've observed, group communication is directed at either your class, spec, or your current role.. or in some cases a player's choice of light side or dark side conversation choices rather than your name.

 

The number thing seems feasible. However, wouldn't it change every time you log in? How would you be able to mail Bob1 if he is Bob4 today, but you just don't know it? Now, I would like people to know Bob, just not by his legacy. Bob can have his own set of friends outside of his other characters.

 

The rest of what you offer are just simple variables that can still lead to 2 of the same people with the same thing going. Bob and Bob could easily both be Juggernauts with Dark Side 5.

[Darth_Halford]

the simple fact i have paid to play this game in the past should be reason enough for bioware to want to do what i ask.

 

Not really. You're not some magical snowflake of individuality here. We all pay to play and we all play by the same rules. When you sign up for your account you're told (if you actually bother to read) what you get for your terms of service.

 

Being able to ask bioware to ignore their own rules is not one of them.

[Havokk]

* The only other way to preserve privacy with that method that would be to mask the bob.lu'cas identifier with their playable name 'bob' and hope most people just chat in dedicated channels and don't need to whisper with slash commands. (If the legacy is hidden, mask the chat name.)

 

If you want to mail that user, they would have to give you their actual address "bob.lu'cas".

 

And how exactly would they give you their actual address if you can't /tell or mail them to ask them for it?

If I see an item for sale on the GTN by 'bob', how do I know to mail 'bob.lucas' to ask them a question about the item? If I recieve two emails, one from 'bob.lucas' and one from 'bob.fischer' but both have hiddne the last name so that I just see "From bob" in both messages then how do I know they are from two different characters?

 

The concept is simple: there must be a unique identifer for every character. The unique identifier must to be floating above the character's head and listed with sales on the GTN and listed with messages in chat channels and so on.

 

Whether that unique identifier is "Ben" or "Ben Kenobi" is irrelevant - what is relevant is that if another character with the same identifier is moved onto a server then one of the characters has to be renamed.

 

For this game, the unique identifier is the character's name (not name & legacy, just name). The uniqueness domain is the server, so we have issues when moving characters. If I'd designed it then names would be globally unique, but they didn't ask me. :-)

[RaithHarth]

Seriously, all the good names? Tell me, what is a good name? Also, I love how you come up with the idea of how a 'majority' gave up, yet then state you do not speak for everyone and are not a self-absorbed individual. You seem exactly like that, especially with that hypocrisy.

 

You think you gave one of the best ideas out there. How did Pirates of the Burning Sea handle server transfers? I bet some people had to change one of their names to be different. Did they get a second chance at keeping their names? I'm quite sure they did not.

 

If you refuse to play, then thank you for supporting this game with your subscription.

 

You still haven't caught on have you? When Pirates of the burning sea had it's own server transfers, at least players didn't have to change for the most part, you could have two Billy's on the same server or more, with different surnames, visa versa so it wasn't like names would be much of a problem.

[Darth_Halford]

You still haven't caught on have you? When Pirates of the burning sea had it's own server transfers, at least players didn't have to change for the most part, you could have two Billy's on the same server or more, with different surnames, visa versa so it wasn't like names would be much of a problem.

 

There's plenty of not catching on to go around Raith. You still haven't caught onto the idea that the only thing that Burnig Sea and Old Republic have in common is that they are MMO's and your characters have names.

[monkgryphon]

You still haven't caught on have you? When Pirates of the burning sea had it's own server transfers, at least players didn't have to change for the most part, you could have two Billy's on the same server or more, with different surnames, visa versa so it wasn't like names would be much of a problem.

 

You misunderstood. What if someone wanted to keep both names, but someone else already had that. A surname just adds more characters to the name. Billy Jones transferred, and he couldn't be Billy Jones again, because someone else already got it. How did they solve that? Forcing the guy to change one of the names. He didn't want to, so he did change it, then went to the forums to complain and offer a half-thought idea on how to fix things. Billy Jones is identified by being Billy Jones, not Billy James or Billy Jone. Why would he want to change his surname? He was there when the game launched and picked that name and played with it for a while.

Edited July 5, 2012 by monkgryphon

[RAZIMx]

The number thing seems feasible. However, wouldn't it change every time you log in? How would you be able to mail Bob1 if he is Bob4 today, but you just don't know it? Now, I would like people to know Bob, just not by his legacy. Bob can have his own set of friends outside of his other characters.

 

The rest of what you offer are just simple variables that can still lead to 2 of the same people with the same thing going. Bob and Bob could easily both be Juggernauts with Dark Side 5.

 

Yea that's the real problem. If players can't stand to see their legacy/surname public like that, an expanded system can't work. The masking suggestion was just to try and meet the privacy concern half way but it wouldn't be a foolproof solution. At least the namespace is a bit better than WoW's though since they included apostrophes.

 

At this point in time the legacy name is just a free unique title (per server), if you chose to use it.

Edited July 5, 2012 by RAZIMx

[RaithHarth]

There's plenty of not catching on to go around Raith. You still haven't caught onto the idea that the only thing that Burnig Sea and Old Republic have in common is that they are MMO's and your characters have names.

 

Except SWTOR has a limited naming policy per server which makes naming a character more challenging to the average player, POTBS is unlimited per server that gives players the freedom to choice, without debating whether a name is taken or not, at least for the most part.

Edited July 7, 2012 by RaithHarth

[RaithHarth]

You misunderstood. What if someone wanted to keep both names, but someone else already had that. A surname just adds more characters to the name. Billy Jones transferred, and he couldn't be Billy Jones again, because someone else already got it. How did they solve that? Forcing the guy to change one of the names. He didn't want to, so he did change it, then went to the forums to complain and offer a half-thought idea on how to fix things. Billy Jones is identified by being Billy Jones, not Billy James or Billy Jone. Why would he want to change his surname? He was there when the game launched and picked that name and played with it for a while.

 

maybe add some character to the name itself? when I played POTBS I was Billy Jack Bishop, lucky for me the server that I was on didn't force me to transfer but if someone had taken that name I would just work around it, at least I could keep my first name and lastname:

 

such as Billy bones Bishop while my previous name Billy Jack Bishop was being used by another player etc

 

nicknames would be an interesting feature to add to the legacy system, remember Ben Kenobi went by Obi Wan Kenobi, which could be used to recognize each individual player while one player is named John Smith, with another by Jon Smith, this feature could also be used on players that prefer to hide their legacy name

[monkgryphon]

maybe add some character to the name itself? when I played POTBS I was Billy Jack Bishop, lucky for me the server that I was on didn't force me to transfer but if someone had taken that name I would just work around it, at least I could keep my first name and lastname:

 

such as Billy bones Bishop while my previous name Billy Jack Bishop was being used by another player etc

 

nicknames would be an interesting feature to add to the legacy system, remember Ben Kenobi went by Obi Wan Kenobi, which could be used to recognize each individual player while one player is named John Smith, with another by Jon Smith, this feature could also be used on players that prefer to hide their legacy name

 

Regardless of how many names you have on that game, all it does is just adds more characters for a longer name. So your overall argument is invalid, especially when you offered a solution that other people have already offered and you seem to ignore. Use a different character. There are plenty of alt codes for plenty of letters that appear the same, but have some sort of diacritical mark. It's sad how you want to suggest what's in your OP, then just claim "I would just work around it."

 

Taking this post I quoted into account:

If your character name on SWTOR was John, then you transferred and lost your name, you should just make it Jon. If not, then Jaughn. If not that, then Jðhn or something similar. That should be the solution of loss of names, not that there should be numerous John players that have different legacy names. Especially when the system has the identifier as the first name only. If they added second names, then it would be the same as just allowing the current name system to have a space in it.

 

Overall, one or two identifier names doesn't matter when it comes to loss of names. One makes a lot less confusion than two, though. Could you imagine if you have these names on your friend list? John James, John Jame, Jon James? Would you seriously be able to remember who is who?

[RaithHarth]

Regardless of how many names you have on that game, all it does is just adds more characters for a longer name. So your overall argument is invalid, especially when you offered a solution that other people have already offered and you seem to ignore. Use a different character. There are plenty of alt codes for plenty of letters that appear the same, but have some sort of diacritical mark. It's sad how you want to suggest what's in your OP, then just claim "I would just work around it."

 

Taking this post I quoted into account:

If your character name on SWTOR was John, then you transferred and lost your name, you should just make it Jon. If not, then Jaughn. If not that, then Jðhn or something similar. That should be the solution of loss of names, not that there should be numerous John players that have different legacy names. Especially when the system has the identifier as the first name only. If they added second names, then it would be the same as just allowing the current name system to have a space in it.

 

Overall, one or two identifier names doesn't matter when it comes to loss of names. One makes a lot less confusion than two, though. Could you imagine if you have these names on your friend list? John James, John Jame, Jon James? Would you seriously be able to remember who is who?

 

The alt codes is another flawed attempt in the naming policy, they are more like cheat codes more than anything else, they aren't a solution, they are apart of the problem such as Jðhn. Players that prefer to use a single name would have to go with a nickname to identity them, this would avoid the confusion, since players do seems to value their first names more overall, but that doesn't mean that players value their legacy names any less, why make everything unique? it just causes major problems with the community especially now after the transfers.

 

It would be nice to see a John Smith and a Jon Smith, or even a John Doe and John Smith interacting on the same server status, we can already add siblings and foes to our legacy family tree's why can't we do the same with actual players? this would be another interesting feature to uphold.

[Havokk]

It would be nice to see a John Smith and a Jon Smith, or even a John Doe and John Smith interacting on the same server status

This still doesn't solve the issue.

If I am "John Smith" on server A and I transfer to server B where there is already "John Smith" then I have to change my name. Putting a space in the middle doesn't change this issue in the slightest. POTBS has this exaclt issue - the (full) name must be unique and when transferring, name conflicts can happen which require renames.

 

"John Smith" and "Jon Smith" are two different names - just like 'John" and "Jôhn" are two different names.

 

As far as I can come up with, the only alternative is to make names globally unique. As I've said before, if I were designing it, I'd do that. Bioware, however, didn't ask me. :-)