A solution to the loss of names due to transfers

[Darth_Halford]

I can't speak for everyone who has felt drafted because of the transfers, but when you pick a name any name it's suppose to stay with you, I've been with swtor since launch, I am a very loyal customer to bioware, but the matter of the fact is these names mean a great deal to most players, they are apart of the character's identity regardless of transfers, it was only a matter of time before they ended up forcing everyone to disband from our original servers anyways.

I'm missing how loyalty has any relevance to the discussion at all. Sure I'm a loyal Bioware guy: picked up every game they've made since Knights of the Old Republic, and I wouldn't care at all if I lost my characters name.

I'm curious where you get this "Most" idea from, considering "Most" players aren't complaining about this openly on a net forum.

I will give you that a name is part of an identity, but it is not the WHOLE identity of the character. Overall I'd say its probably the most minor part of your overall character's experience, considering nobody actually calls you by your name.

 

The naming process is a very difficult one, especially for those that take them seriously, sometimes it takes months to plan them only because they want the name to be iconic (like Obi-Wan Kenobi) only to have them taken away? How will my story ever be the same when I'm going by another name? It's not the same! You say POTBS mechanics may allow for greater flexibility, but the policy is the same, yes I will agree to that but maybe it's time for Bioware to do the same with SWTOR, it needs more flexibility in it's naming policy.

Months to plan? You've gotta be kidding me. That's either a gross exageration of facts, or just fanatical attention to something purely pointless. There is a difference between planning something out months in advance, and taking several months to plan.

Your name is completly seperate from the story. Anakin's past didn't magically change when he became Darth Vader, and Leia Organa didn't somehow stop being a princess when she took Solo's hand and name in marriage. Alice Cooper didn't change his entire personality and story when he changed his name from Vincent Furnier, nor did Marilyn Manson from Brian Warner.

 

I don't know how your skills are in attention to detail normally, but I've already covered all the problems mechanically about doing what you suggest and you completly ignore them, instead continuing on your sad sad song about how its just not the same and how much a simple name means to you.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Darth_Halford

[RaithHarth]

I'm missing how loyalty has any relevance to the discussion at all. Sure I'm a loyal Bioware guy: picked up every game they've made since Knights of the Old Republic, and I wouldn't care at all if I lost my characters name.

I'm curious where you get this "Most" idea from, considering "Most" players aren't complaining about this openly on a net forum.

I will give you that a name is part of an identity, but it is not the WHOLE identity of the character. Overall I'd say its probably the most minor part of your overall character's experience, considering nobody actually calls you by your name.

 

 

Months to plan? You've gotta be kidding me. That's either a gross exageration of facts, or just fanatical attention to something purely pointless. There is a difference between planning something out months in advance, and taking several months to plan.

Your name is completly seperate from the story. Anakin's past didn't magically change when he became Darth Vader, and Leia Organa didn't somehow stop being a princess when she took Solo's hand and name in marriage. Alice Cooper didn't change his entire personality and story when he changed his name from Vincent Furnier, nor did Marilyn Manson from Brian Warner.

 

I don't know how your skills are in attention to detail normally, but I've already covered all the problems mechanically about doing what you suggest and you completly ignore them, instead continuing on your sad sad song about how its just not the same and how much a simple name means to you.

 

Proper naming of characters have to fit the story and portrayal, you don't just pick any name and go with it,

it doesn't work that way. You think George Lucas just picked any name and put it in his script for star wars? No, it took careful timing and consideration, samething can be said about Vincent Furnier when he picked Alice Cooper or Brian Warner to Marilyn Manson they didn't pick these names, they had to think it through and sometimes these take time to process, if it's days, weeks or months it varies.

[Darth_Halford]

Proper naming of characters have to fit the story and portrayal, you don't just pick any name and go with it,

it doesn't work that way. You think George Lucas just picked any name and put it in his script for star wars? No, it took careful timing and consideration, samething can be said about Vincent Furnier when he picked Alice Cooper or Brian Warner to Marilyn Manson they didn't pick these names, they had to think it through and sometimes these take time to process, if it's days, weeks or months it varies.

Cooper and Manson both picked their stage names in a day, though it would take years (and alchoholism) for their names to be legally changed.

 

Considering Luke's last name changed several times in the writing process, I'd say George Lucas certainly didn't plan it out for MONTHS. Considering the name itself means nothing, and that all of the other names (Han, Leia, Lando, etc) were all made up, I would have to argue that "pick any name and go with it" is actually form and function in not just the world of Lucas, but Space Opera's and overall Fantasy as well.

[ArchangelLBC]

How come every time someone posts a suggestion for a system that allows them to keep or get back their old names without infringing on the names of people already on the server it gets shot down with "It's not a big deal to change your name, get over it."?

 

If you want to critique his suggestion that's one thing (Legacy name hiding concerns, Legacy name confusion in the coding scheme are all perfectly valid critiques btw), but just because it's not an issue for you doesn't make it not an issue, and there were more than just the people who post on these forums who weren't happy about changing their names when they'd been in the game since day 1. For the record, it's not an issue for me. My server ended up being a destination server.

 

My favorite solution is still tying names to accounts so you have "Name@Account Name", but that still leaves plenty of confusion for the purposes of inviting, or just plain clunkiness in chat.

 

The perfect system where everyone is happy, with the possible exception of the BW employees who have to code the change, may exist. More likely no such system exists.

 

In either case BW is most likely to go with the path of least resistance and leave things as they stand now, and with the myriad of other issues that they need to address at the best of times, I find it hard to blame them.

 

My empathy kind of wanes here since I'll be honest and say I'd rather have them designing new content, fixing current issues, and overall making the game better than have them spending time figuring out, coding, debugging, and implementing a system to get people their names back when things are pretty much already a done deal.

 

Still, for those who continue to worry about it, I say keep posting and coming up with ideas. While they'll still almost certainly do nothing if you continue, they might eventually implement something just to shut you up. They'll definitely do nothing if everyone just moves on though.

[RaithHarth]

How come every time someone posts a suggestion for a system that allows them to keep or get back their old names without infringing on the names of people already on the server it gets shot down with "It's not a big deal to change your name, get over it."?

 

If you want to critique his suggestion that's one thing (Legacy name hiding concerns, Legacy name confusion in the coding scheme are all perfectly valid critiques btw), but just because it's not an issue for you doesn't make it not an issue, and there were more than just the people who post on these forums who weren't happy about changing their names when they'd been in the game since day 1. For the record, it's not an issue for me. My server ended up being a destination server.

 

My favorite solution is still tying names to accounts so you have "Name@Account Name", but that still leaves plenty of confusion for the purposes of inviting, or just plain clunkiness in chat.

 

The perfect system where everyone is happy, with the possible exception of the BW employees who have to code the change, may exist. More likely no such system exists.

 

In either case BW is most likely to go with the path of least resistance and leave things as they stand now, and with the myriad of other issues that they need to address at the best of times, I find it hard to blame them.

 

My empathy kind of wanes here since I'll be honest and say I'd rather have them designing new content, fixing current issues, and overall making the game better than have them spending time figuring out, coding, debugging, and implementing a system to get people their names back when things are pretty much already a done deal.

 

Still, for those who continue to worry about it, I say keep posting and coming up with ideas. While they'll still almost certainly do nothing if you continue, they might eventually implement something just to shut you up. They'll definitely do nothing if everyone just moves on though.

 

I couldn't agree more, tying names to accounts is actually the best solution for all subscribers it will benefit everyone in the long run. I can't speak for everyone but like you said it may not be an issue for some players but in fact it matters to many of us, some even canceling their subs over it until it's resolved by bioware.

[monkgryphon]

only one John per server would be allowed to do so, having 2 or 5 johns hiding their legacy name would make things too complicated, unless you go by Jon instead of John then it would be accessable.

 

Or maybe it's just better off eliminating hiding legacy names altogether at least it wouldn't complicate things.

 

You're just producing the problem you're trying to prevent, bravo. Bioware forces a system in, people don't like it. Now you propose an alternate forced system... which can be the same exact thing. I will never sign off on your suggestion here, and will oppose it always. You just did a full circle back to Bioware's idea. I never really had an issue with the current system, but was willing to hear you out, and at first you didn't think of the fact that people CAN and DO hide their legacy names, and when I offer a situation that circumvents it, you make it forced like Bioware.

Edited June 26, 2012 by monkgryphon

[RaithHarth]

You're just producing the problem you're trying to prevent, bravo. Bioware forces a system in, people don't like it. Now you propose an alternate forced system... which can be the same exact thing. I will never sign off on your suggestion here, and will oppose it always. You just did a full circle back to Bioware's idea. I never really had an issue with the current system, but was willing to hear you out, and at first you didn't think of the fact that people CAN and DO hide their legacy names, and when I offer a situation that circumvents it, you make it forced like Bioware.

 

Got any bright ideas? And don't say "It's not a big deal to change your name, get over it" because that clearly isn't the answer either

[monkgryphon]

Got any bright ideas? And don't say "It's not a big deal to change your name, get over it" because that clearly isn't the answer either

 

I'm not the one putting my idea up for others to discuss. I don't have a good solution. However, it is obvious that you really didn't think upon your idea enough. When I offer a situation that circumvents it, you force it to be only one person and now you say 'Got any bright ideas?'

 

No, I don't have any bright ideas on this matter, but I don't have half-thought ones either.

 

You weren't even willing to start a brainstorm for that. You just copped out back to 1 per server, which is what you were trying to solve. 'Got any bright ideas?' doesn't seem like you want to brainstorm, instead it seems condescending.

 

Pick one name, and deal with it. It will become too much of a hassle for players to remember who is who on whose legacy anyways. There already is a thread about a person who thinks it's a hassle to type and remember his own character names out in the mail to send across faction.

Edited June 26, 2012 by monkgryphon

[RaithHarth]

I'm not the one putting my idea up for others to discuss. I don't have a good solution. However, it is obvious that you really didn't think upon your idea enough. When I offer a situation that circumvents it, you force it to be only one person and now you say 'Got any bright ideas?'

 

No, I don't have any bright ideas on this matter, but I don't have half-thought ones either.

 

Well it just seems that between you and Darth_Halford you both seem to run down some pretty decent ideas, I get the impression you two much rather take the "It's not a big deal to change your name, get over it" idea, but hey like I said in a previous post I can't speak for everyone.

 

Best way is to have a more flexible naming policy like in Pirates of the Burning Sea such as tying in username/legacy to account name so anyone can pick the name they want, as bad as the game was at least it had a naming policy that kept everyone happy. Because frankly taking the single name route is too cheap like WOW unless your a Darth or Sith Lord that only requires one name then that does have some credibility to it.

Edited June 26, 2012 by RaithHarth

[monkgryphon]

I think they implemented a single name because of the inclusion of so many titles.

[Darth_Halford]

Well it just seems that between you and Darth_Halford you both seem to run down some pretty decent ideas, I get the impression you two much rather take the "It's not a big deal to change your name, get over it" idea, but hey like I said in a previous post I can't speak for everyone.

 

Best way is to have a more flexible naming policy like in Pirates of the Burning Sea such as tying in username/legacy to account name so anyone can pick the name they want, as bad as the game was at least it had a naming policy that kept everyone happy. Because frankly taking the single name route is too cheap like WOW unless your a Darth or Sith Lord that only requires one name then that does have some credibility to it.

 

I would rather take the "get over it" approach, because it's the only one presented in this conversation that works. You even agreed when I stated that doing what you're suggesting won't get your old name back.

 

As was said before (and I hope this is the last time) Burning Sea is no better than The Old Republic in terms of policy and only marginally better in terms of mechanics. Mechanics, which by the way, cannot be replicated for reasons that have already been stated. Mechanics that, in order to be replicated, would require a great deal of new code to be added, including among other things:

1) The introduction of Legacy at level 1, thus cheapening the effect of earning it and requiring a rescaling of the rewards.

2) "Jailbreaking" Legacy bonuses from the name, so that you could have several people of the same last name and still earn Legacy, or have the same Legacy with seperate surnames

3) If given 2, that the system is able to differentiate between different Legacy's of the same name.

4) Forcing the display of Legacy/surname on all characters, which was previously an optional choice that (that I can tell) most players utilized to hide their Legacy Name.

5) Potentially displaying/sharing account name information, making net security an issue.

 

As per names fitting the story and the role, Havoc Squad CO, Major Houskie Brightmark fits damn well perfectly if I dare boast, and both the first name and the Legacy name took less than a minute.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Darth_Halford

[RaithHarth]

I would rather take the "get over it" approach, because it's the only one presented in this conversation that works. You even agreed when I stated that doing what you're suggesting won't get your old name back.

 

As was said before (and I hope this is the last time) Burning Sea is no better than The Old Republic in terms of policy and only marginally better in terms of mechanics. Mechanics, which by the way, cannot be replicated for reasons that have already been stated. Mechanics that, in order to be replicated, would require a great deal of new code to be added, including among other things:

1) The introduction of Legacy at level 1, thus cheapening the effect of earning it and requiring a rescaling of the rewards.

2) "Jailbreaking" Legacy bonuses from the name, so that you could have several people of the same last name and still earn Legacy, or have the same Legacy with seperate surnames

3) If given 2, that the system is able to differentiate between different Legacy's of the same name.

4) Forcing the display of Legacy/surname on all characters, which was previously an optional choice that (that I can tell) most players utilized to hide their Legacy Name.

5) Potentially displaying/sharing account name information, making net security an issue.

 

As per names fitting the story and the role, Havoc Squad CO, Major Houskie Brightmark fits damn well perfectly if I dare boast, and both the first name and the Legacy name took less than a minute.

 

Maybe it works for you and others like you, but you need to consider the other players that want change, because the "get over it" approach simply does not work for them or me. If Bioware used a system that linked tying in accounts names to legacy & usernames then that would benefit them greatly, not everyone is guaranteed certain aspects of the suggestions at hand but at least it leaves more breathing room for the player to pick a name, like I said earlier it's all about flexibility just like in POTBS. I'm sure I'm not the only player who has been turned away from SWTOR because of the forced name changes due to transfers, it's time that bioware takes this more seriously as should you, you may not be a supporter but at least think about the other players who were faulted because of this.

[Darth_Halford]

Maybe it works for you and others like you, but you need to consider the other players that want change, because the "get over it" approach simply does not work for them or me. If Bioware used a system that linked tying in accounts names to legacy & usernames then that would benefit them greatly, not everyone is guaranteed certain aspects of the suggestions at hand but at least it leaves more breathing room for the player to pick a name, like I said earlier it's all about flexibility just like in POTBS. I'm sure I'm not the only player who has been turned away from SWTOR because of the forced name changes due to transfers, it's time that bioware takes this more seriously as should you, you may not be a supporter but at least think about the other players who were faulted because of this.

 

I take this very seriously, and I'm not sure why I should think about what another group of players want. That's an appeal to the masses by technicality and is a pure logical fallacy.

Specifically, why should I, or Bioware for that matter, be more interested in making you and those of like mind happy than those that would rather have the game as it is? No matter what way you go about it, it's going to piss people off and I'd wager more-so than the people they would get back. Even if it was a net-positive in subscribers, it likely wouldn't be enough to offset the manpower needed to code the changes.

 

Instead, you should focus on the mechanics of the suggestions: can they be done, how easily, how does it affect the rest of the populace, what are the consequences. Etc. Far as I can tell, your interest is solely in getting what you want.

[RaithHarth]

I take this very seriously, and I'm not sure why I should think about what another group of players want. That's an appeal to the masses by technicality and is a pure logical fallacy.

Specifically, why should I, or Bioware for that matter, be more interested in making you and those of like mind happy than those that would rather have the game as it is? No matter what way you go about it, it's going to piss people off and I'd wager more-so than the people they would get back. Even if it was a net-positive in subscribers, it likely wouldn't be enough to offset the manpower needed to code the changes.

 

Instead, you should focus on the mechanics of the suggestions: can they be done, how easily, how does it affect the rest of the populace, what are the consequences. Etc. Far as I can tell, your interest is solely in getting what you want.

 

It's funny how you said you take this seriously, because obviously you don't seem to care about those that were affected by this, we were robbed of our identities, why should we bother taking anything less than that? It matters not if we transferred to another destination, we still have every right to remain who we were right from the getgo, yes I realize bioware doesn't keep track of these sort of things, but maybe it's time for some change around here in order to get some more flexibility between players.

 

Remember Quality always out measures Quantity, and clearly when it comes to the naming policies, there is no Quality at all only Quantity.

Edited June 28, 2012 by RaithHarth

[Havokk]

If Bioware used a system that linked tying in accounts names to legacy & usernames

You haven't explained exactly how this would work.

 

For example, in a system where character names are not unique, then:

I see a character run past with "Aerith the Hotshot Pilot" above their name. How do I send them a tell or invite them to a group?

I see an item on the GTN sold by Aerith. How do I send an email to that person?

I have an alt called Aerith. There is also an Aerith in my guild. There is another Aerith on my friends list. How do send email to a specific one of these?

 

Before you answer, please consider the following points:

* Account name should NEVER be visible to other people. Having people know other people's account names leads to potential DOS or fraud attacks on their accounts.

* Some players do not want their legacy name known. They want to be able to log on as alts in a way that someone who has fiended a nother character does not know they are online. Guild officers sometimes want to be anonynmous in the guild, to avoid being bothered by guild stuff.

[Phatzorro]

Cooper and Manson both picked their stage names in a day, though it would take years (and alchoholism) for their names to be legally changed.

 

Considering Luke's last name changed several times in the writing process, I'd say George Lucas certainly didn't plan it out for MONTHS. Considering the name itself means nothing, and that all of the other names (Han, Leia, Lando, etc) were all made up, I would have to argue that "pick any name and go with it" is actually form and function in not just the world of Lucas, but Space Opera's and overall Fantasy as well.

 

Hmm. but how would we have felt if, after Empire, Lukes name suddenly changed to Norman? While you may not attach much importance to a name, others do. And whether you agree or not, this is an issue that should be addressed, The transfers could have been handled better. Bioware did it this way because its the easiest way, and unless people complain about it, they will not know how this has affected people. The whole thing with business is customer satisfaction, and businesses will continue to think that everyone is satisfied with them if people do not complain about changes. If you are satisfied with the way it was handled then fine, but its a bit presumptuous to keep having a pop at people who are not.

[Phatzorro]

Oh, and the simplest way to deal with this is to give the people affected a free transfer to another server. I personally am annoyed that I was given no choice in where my toon went, it was either stay on a dead server or move to this server and have your name and legacy changed. Give people a choice of servers and you can pick and CHOOSE. If your name is taken on the new server move somewhere else.

[Darth_Halford]

It's funny how you said you take this seriously, because obviously you don't seem to care about those that were affected by this, we were robbed of our identities, why should we bother taking anything less than that? It matters not if we transferred to another destination, we still have every right to remain who we were right from the getgo, yes I realize bioware doesn't keep track of these sort of things, but maybe it's time for some change around here in order to get some more flexibility between players.

 

Remember Quality always out measures Quantity, and clearly when it comes to the naming policies, there is no Quality at all only Quantity.

 

No I don't care what happens. That doesn't mean I don't take it seriously. I'm looking at this from purely logical mindset, and not from the mindset of someone who feels that they've been wronged or owed something.

 

You were not robbed your identity: certainly not the one that matters (your real identity). You are still you and your character is still the same person that he/she/it always was.

 

You don't have a "right" to anything. You have "privelages" as described per the Terms of Service, In Game Policies and the End User Agreement.

 

Here's how I know YOU aren't taking this seriously: I've said numerous times why the kind of flexibility you're looking for won't work and you don't care or even adress the issues that are brought up.

[Darth_Halford]

Hmm. but how would we have felt if, after Empire, Lukes name suddenly changed to Norman? While you may not attach much importance to a name, others do. And whether you agree or not, this is an issue that should be addressed, The transfers could have been handled better. Bioware did it this way because its the easiest way, and unless people complain about it, they will not know how this has affected people. The whole thing with business is customer satisfaction, and businesses will continue to think that everyone is satisfied with them if people do not complain about changes. If you are satisfied with the way it was handled then fine, but its a bit presumptuous to keep having a pop at people who are not.

Anyone whose actually dealt with customer service realizes you can't please everyone at once, no matter how hard you try, and that trying to do so becomes more expensive than it's really worth.

 

Yes, they did do it the easy way, and well they should. There were more prevalent problems going on, like players on servers being completly unable to do any content that involved more than one character. The ammount of coding to get it so that what Wraith is expecting to happen would have added alot of additional time to the process with no real benefit to anything.

 

I'm not taking a shot at him or anyone else because he's not happy. I'm taking a shot at his idea because its wholly unrealistic and makes no logical sense.

[Bugjuice]

On one hand I don't understand why all games don't adopt the system where as you friend, message and interact with the account name or an account tag, and then they can name their characters whatever they like for RP purposes, and for the world to see.

 

That said, the only reason people have overlapping character names is because their names are not original. As proven by the fact that they are happened upon by more than one person. And when in the history of forever have you ever been in a place where no two people share a first or a last name?

 

But in a more pragmatic and realistic approach to SWTOR's existing system: I can see how it would be irritating to share both first and last name with another person since you're supposed to be a unique snowflake and a hero character, but I see no reason why two people couldn't have the same first name, for example. So how about releasing the lock on first names, and using legacy name to friend & whisper.

[Havokk]

On one hand I don't understand why all games don't adopt the system where as you friend, message and interact with the account name or an account tag, an

1. Because I don't want you or anyone else knowing my account name. Ever.

2. Because I sometimes want to be online without my friends and guildmates knowing that I am online.

[DeltaCharlieTwo]

I love this idea, I've even heard it a few times, that and this topic has annoyed me to no end since I lost both of my mains names to Imperial classes (I fight for the Republic) and one of them seems to be just holding the name to either sell it or because the owner had the same name. that and marriage would be good to see as well, allow two player's family trees merge. =)

 

But what about if you've already imported over your character with another name or used those "Alt Codes"? my suggestion would be either add in a NPC onto the Republic/Imperial Fleet or here on the SWTOR website in an area like the character transfer area.

[RaithHarth]

1. Because I don't want you or anyone else knowing my account name. Ever.

2. Because I sometimes want to be online without my friends and guildmates knowing that I am online.

 

nobody will know your account name it will be unseen, in-game usernames and legacy names will be linked per account not server

Edited June 29, 2012 by RaithHarth

[Darth_Halford]

nobody will know your account name it will be unseen, in-game usernames and legacy names will be linked per account not server

 

Except that it is exactly what bugjuice suggested.

 

On one hand I don't understand why all games don't adopt the system where as you friend, message and interact with the account name or an account tag, and then they can name their characters whatever they like for RP purposes, and for the world to see.

 

But in a more pragmatic and realistic approach to SWTOR's existing system: I can see how it would be irritating to share both first and last name with another person since you're supposed to be a unique snowflake and a hero character, but I see no reason why two people couldn't have the same first name, for example. So how about releasing the lock on first names, and using legacy name to friend & whisper.

Wee, we get to ride the merry-go-round yet again. I hope you pay better attention.

A) because you don't start with a Legacy Name

B) per A, The system identifies your character through the first name that it was created under. Without a Legacy, or other identifier, there's no way to "unlock" that.

C) If A were made untrue, that would weaken the value of having a Legacy and the rewards would need to be retooled.

D) Showing your Legacy name is an optional feature, and most players seem to take the option of hiding their Legacy.

E) Per D, there is no mechanic that makes this work without alienating those players, which is just as bad as forcing Wraith to "lose his identity"

[Bugjuice]

Is there a particular reason why so many people in here are so jaded, cynical and hostile? We're just talking theoreticals here. And I did say "OR AN ACCOUNT TAG". But I guess you stopp reading after "OMG he said something I don't agree with".

 

Check your hostile and elitist attitudes, please.