Infiltration

[reinforever]

I know a lot of you say it's broken, but damn these imps are dropping quick. I may be very easy to kill, but they hardly get the chance cause they're dead before I am.

[Xinika]

I know a lot of you say it's broken, but damn these imps are dropping quick. I may be very easy to kill, but they hardly get the chance cause they're dead before I am.

 

That's great. That makes me feel so much more assured about the spec.

[reinforever]

That's great. That makes me feel so much more assured about the spec.

 

Also what I'm expecting is since they're raising level cap, they'll probably be reworking the trees to make infil more optimal and whatnot. Not sure when they're doing the raise, but they said they are! Yay for hope.

[Xinika]

Also what I'm expecting is since they're raising level cap, they'll probably be reworking the trees to make infil more optimal and whatnot. Not sure when they're doing the raise, but they said they are! Yay for hope.

 

No. No. The whole bloody tree needs to be reworked. Especially with changes in 1.3, the game is aiming to support sustained DPS over burst DPS. Scrappers are in the same boat, but have it even worse. (They don't have no Force Potency ability.)

[reinforever]

No. No. The whole bloody tree needs to be reworked. Especially with changes in 1.3, the game is aiming to support sustained DPS over burst DPS. Scrappers are in the same boat, but have it even worse. (They don't have no Force Potency ability.)

 

The changes being the adrenal and relic inability to be used in pvp? Or are there others I'm not aware of yet?

[MiaRB]

The changes being the adrenal and relic inability to be used in pvp? Or are there others I'm not aware of yet?

 

lol. never listen to anyone who thinks an entire skill tree needs to be redone.

[Xinika]

The changes being the adrenal and relic inability to be used in pvp?

 

Yes. The game is shifting away from burst specs, making them more useless than they already are. You made this post because you managed to blow up someone in a warzone 1v1. That's great. I (and I guarantee you) many others can do the same thing as that spec. Did you win that warzone? How much support did you really give to the team? Did you actually fight good players?

 

Here's the dramatic drawbacks of the spec in teamplay:

 

- Too predictable.

Anyone that has been in PvP for some time has probably ran into a Deception Assassin or Infil Shadow.

They know what's coming after your infamous two yo-yo swings. They will negate it, or buy enough time

for their team mates to come help. With rateds coming out in just days, I can almost guarantee you, you will

never burst a soul in those games. Difference with Scrappers is that their burst is upfront and on-demand.

 

- Horrible Survivability

This spec literally suffers just as (if not worse) than Scrappers in terms of survivability. Force Cloak makes you

equally useless as being dead to the team. Your active survivability buffs are too short and your passive

survivability is even more of a joke. No 30%+ armour or 30% less AE damage is saving you from being gunned

down from a smart team. Besides that, why even hurt your head saving the infil when it could've been a sent

who can brush those attacks off far better?

 

- Lack of Fillers

You just got your rotation off. How many options do you really have when everything is on CD for fillers?

CS? Saber Strike?

 

- Bad Force Management

It seems like they didn't quite think this spec through because the force management on it can be rather poor.

Especially in delayed battles.

 

(Here's the best one) - No. Group. UTILITY

There's literally nothing an infiltration Shadow brings to the table that another spec or class doesn't. You literally

gimp your team in taking the player who chooses this spec. Sents for example have this wonderful thing called

Inspiration. And Transcendence is hands down the greatest group boost I have ever seen to date. Scrappers

can at least off-heal. You can taunt... but so can a KC or Balance Shadow who are more useful due to their

utility.

 

IF there was an arena (such as 2v2, 3v3) in this game. The spec would be more desirable. As it stands, warzones are the only rewarding form of PvP and this is not a good warzone spec.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Xinika

[Xienive]

Yes. The game is shifting away from burst specs, making them more useless than they already are. You made this post because you managed to blow up someone in a warzone 1v1. That's great. I (and I guarantee you) many others can do the same thing as that spec. Did you win that warzone? How much support did you really give to the team? Did you actually fight good players?

 

Here's the dramatic drawbacks of the spec in teamplay:

 

- Too predictable.

Anyone that has been in PvP for some time has probably ran into a Deception Assassin or Infil Shadow.

They know what's coming after your infamous two yo-yo swings. They will negate it, or buy enough time

for their team mates to come help. With rateds coming out in just days, I can almost guarantee you, you will

never burst a soul in those games. Difference with Scrappers is that their burst is upfront and on-demand.

 

- Horrible Survivability

This spec literally suffers just as (if not worse) than Scrappers in terms of survivability. Force Cloak makes you

equally useless as being dead to the team. Your active survivability buffs are too short and your passive

survivability is even more of a joke. No 30%+ armour or 30% less AE damage is saving you from being gunned

down from a smart team. Besides that, why even hurt your head saving the infil when it could've been a sent

who can brush those attacks off far better?

 

- Lack of Fillers

You just got your rotation off. How many options do you really have when everything is on CD for fillers?

CS? Saber Strike?

 

- Bad Force Management

It seems like they didn't quite think this spec through because the force management on it can be rather poor.

Especially in delayed battles.

 

(Here's the best one) - No. Group. UTILITY

There's literally nothing an infiltration Shadow brings to the table that another spec or class doesn't. You literally

gimp your team in taking the player who chooses this spec. Sents for example have this wonderful thing called

Inspiration. And Transcendence is hands down the greatest group boost I have ever seen to date. Scrappers

can at least off-heal. You can taunt... but so can a KC or Balance Shadow who are more useful due to their

utility.

 

IF there was an arena (such as 2v2, 3v3) in this game. The spec would be more desirable. As it stands, warzones are the only rewarding form of PvP and this is not a good warzone spec.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Just because you killed a lot of people in one WZ does not make the spec good. Infiltration is fun to play against people who are squishy, but overall if you play Kinetic properly then switch to Infiltration you realize just how bad it is in comparison.

[Spiili]

I know a lot of you say it's broken, but damn these imps are dropping quick. I may be very easy to kill, but they hardly get the chance cause they're dead before I am.

 

Yes mate, the tree is fine as it is, just gotta be patient, when you're on War-Hero, you'll be popping off massive Projects and breaches.

 

A lot of people judge it, because when they play it, they die, then cry about it. So you get Hybrids. Stick at Infiltration mate, it's good fun

[reinforever]

Yes. The game is shifting away from burst specs, making them more useless than they already are. You made this post because you managed to blow up someone in a warzone 1v1. That's great. I (and I guarantee you) many others can do the same thing as that spec. Did you win that warzone? How much support did you really give to the team? Did you actually fight good players?

 

Here's the dramatic drawbacks of the spec in teamplay:

 

- Too predictable.

Anyone that has been in PvP for some time has probably ran into a Deception Assassin or Infil Shadow.

They know what's coming after your infamous two yo-yo swings. They will negate it, or buy enough time

for their team mates to come help. With rateds coming out in just days, I can almost guarantee you, you will

never burst a soul in those games. Difference with Scrappers is that their burst is upfront and on-demand.

 

- Horrible Survivability

This spec literally suffers just as (if not worse) than Scrappers in terms of survivability. Force Cloak makes you

equally useless as being dead to the team. Your active survivability buffs are too short and your passive

survivability is even more of a joke. No 30%+ armour or 30% less AE damage is saving you from being gunned

down from a smart team. Besides that, why even hurt your head saving the infil when it could've been a sent

who can brush those attacks off far better?

 

- Lack of Fillers

You just got your rotation off. How many options do you really have when everything is on CD for fillers?

CS? Saber Strike?

 

- Bad Force Management

It seems like they didn't quite think this spec through because the force management on it can be rather poor.

Especially in delayed battles.

 

(Here's the best one) - No. Group. UTILITY

There's literally nothing an infiltration Shadow brings to the table that another spec or class doesn't. You literally

gimp your team in taking the player who chooses this spec. Sents for example have this wonderful thing called

Inspiration. And Transcendence is hands down the greatest group boost I have ever seen to date. Scrappers

can at least off-heal. You can taunt... but so can a KC or Balance Shadow who are more useful due to their

utility.

 

IF there was an arena (such as 2v2, 3v3) in this game. The spec would be more desirable. As it stands, warzones are the only rewarding form of PvP and this is not a good warzone spec.

 

Not very good filler I'll give you that, but i never really run out of force or am stuck on CD's.

Predictable, yes, but I tried your hybrid build that had no rotation and I didn't see much damage being pumped out.

As far as Team play, it's not meant to go into group situations and kill a bunch of people in the midst of a big group of people duking it out, like it's name say's it's an infiltrator. I realize the lack of adrenals and relics is going to severely hurt the burst aspect, but I NEVER use adrenals anyways cause I'm credit stingey and I only recently bought relics. Before I was doing nice damage and was killing people 1v1 and ninja-capping. If I didn't get the ninja cap, it's because I either cloaked out because I would have died or people came. Either way reinforcements came and drew them off a different node which IMO is a good team effort.

[reinforever]

Yes mate, the tree is fine as it is, just gotta be patient, when you're on War-Hero, you'll be popping off massive Projects and breaches.

 

A lot of people judge it, because when they play it, they die, then cry about it. So you get Hybrids. Stick at Infiltration mate, it's good fun

 

How do you think we'll fare once relics and adrenals are gone? I personally only recently started using relics, and I think we'll do fine.

[InariOkami]

Gonna have to agree with Shinarika on this one. Bioware has made their intention clear: No more burst DPS. Just as TTK went way down in 1.2 due to expertise changes, it's going back up in 1.3 with the relic/adrenal change. Even now deception/infiltration has no spot on a serious competitive ranked team. You might be able to take out one subpar person on the other team with your cooldowns and then you're a sitting duck for another 75 seconds while stay in stealth or do negligible dps with a weak rotation. And the argument that "omg i hit someone for 6k with project/shock!!! infiltration is fine l2p" obviously has absolutely no idea how pvp works in this game. Deception/infiltration was tuned for small scale encounters (it would be viable in a 2v2 arena style deathmatch, though still not fantastic, they'd have to make it less predictable), in a game where the only pvp is 8v8 mass warzones. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun spec, but against players who know what they're doing, it just cannot perform.

[reinforever]

Gonna have to agree with Shinarika on this one. Bioware has made their intention clear: No more burst DPS. Just as TTK went way down in 1.2 due to expertise changes, it's going back up in 1.3 with the relic/adrenal change. Even now deception/infiltration has no spot on a serious competitive ranked team. You might be able to take out one subpar person on the other team with your cooldowns and then you're a sitting duck for another 75 seconds while stay in stealth or do negligible dps with a weak rotation. And the argument that "omg i hit someone for 6k with project/shock!!! infiltration is fine l2p" obviously has absolutely no idea how pvp works in this game. Deception/infiltration was tuned for small scale encounters (it would be viable in a 2v2 arena style deathmatch, though still not fantastic, they'd have to make it less predictable), in a game where the only pvp is 8v8 mass warzones. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun spec, but against players who know what they're doing, it just cannot perform.

 

I'm open to try to do the hybrid dps spec, i just don't think I was doing it correctly.

[Xinika]

I'm open to try to do the hybrid dps spec, i just don't think I was doing it correctly.

Just go KC... 31/0/10. (Or 31/2/8, take your pick) Even with the nerf, it's still the best spec (23/1/17 aside) that our class has to offer for PvP by a rather large margin.

 

Edit: If you're referring to 23/1/17 as the "hybrid" then believe me when I say this: You can pump out much more damage as this spec than infil can ever dream of. (If you care about wz scoreboards) 13/28 is a more advanced spec and requires patience before mastering it. These hybrid specs are not one-dimensional.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Xinika

[dronepilot]

No. No. The whole bloody tree needs to be reworked. Especially with changes in 1.3, the game is aiming to support sustained DPS over burst DPS. Scrappers are in the same boat, but have it even worse. (They don't have no Force Potency ability.)

 

TBH, I thought the change on relics in PVP would actually hurt us, BUT ! actually could work out to be a good thing in the end, as having a sustained buff to my power relic, rather, than a short 15 sec burst. OK adrenals are out.. but even though I am not happy with that, I still want to see how Infiltration actually plays out in 1.3 BEFORE throwing the whole spec in to the bin, sweety.

 

Pretty sure we have just been jumping the gun over this, and there could be work arounds to the problem, if you 'really' do want to continue on with Infiltration as I do, since I have since the start of the game.

Edited June 23, 2012 by dronepilot

[MiaRB]

How do you think we'll fare once relics and adrenals are gone? I personally only recently started using relics, and I think we'll do fine.

 

the ability to use augments on PVP gear after 1.2 boosted overall damage above BW's target numbers in PVP. 1.3 will be adding the ability for even more augment slots for PVP which will push damage even higher above their target numbers. changes to relics and adrenals counter that so damage in PVP doesnt go even higher above their target numbers. those target number apply to every class/AC/spec, not just inf spec or "burst" specs.

 

never listen to people who are always complaining tell you how to play or what to play. 1.3 will be here on tuesday and you will see that you will still do fine. and really, WZ adrenals only last for 25 seconds and have a 3 min CD. relics last 20 seconds and have 2 min CD. so even now, you are playing without either most of the time in WZs.

[dronepilot]

the ability to use augments on PVP gear after 1.2 boosted overall damage above BW's target numbers in PVP. 1.3 will be adding the ability for even more augment slots for PVP which will push damage even higher above their target numbers. changes to relics and adrenals counter that so damage in PVP doesnt go even higher above their target numbers. those target number apply to every class/AC/spec, not just inf spec or "burst" specs.

 

never listen to people who are always complaining tell you how to play or what to play. 1.3 will be here on tuesday and you will see that you will still do fine. and really, WZ adrenals only last for 25 seconds and have a 3 min CD. relics last 20 seconds and have 2 min CD. so even now, you are playing without either most of the time in WZs.

 

Proof will be in the pudding, hun. We shall see !

[Xinika]

TBH, I thought the change on relics in PVP would actually hurt us, BUT ! actually could work out to be a good thing in the end, as having a sustained buff to my power relic, rather, than a short 15 sec burst. OK adrenals are out.. but even though I am not happy with that, I still want to see how Infiltration actually plays out in 1.3 BEFORE throwing the whole spec in to the bin, sweety.

 

Pretty sure we have just been jumping the gun over this, and there could be work arounds to the problem, if you 'really' do want to continue on with Infiltration as I do, since I have since the start of the game.

 

You're forgetting the fact that this applies to all classes/ACs as well. Including the famous Sents/Maras who are the best sustained pressure DPS in the game. Not to mention, Balance is also a pressure DPS, so if anything, 1.3 would work in favour of Balance, not infil.

 

I'm not saying to not test it. Go ahead. Just be realistic and unbiased.

 

the ability to use augments on PVP gear after 1.2 boosted overall damage above BW's target numbers in PVP. 1.3 will be adding the ability for even more augment slots for PVP which will push damage even higher above their target numbers. changes to relics and adrenals counter that so damage in PVP doesnt go even higher above their target numbers. those target number apply to every class/AC/spec, not just inf spec or "burst" specs.

 

never listen to people who are always complaining tell you how to play or what to play. 1.3 will be here on tuesday and you will see that you will still do fine. and really, WZ adrenals only last for 25 seconds and have a 3 min CD. relics last 20 seconds and have 2 min CD. so even now, you are playing without either most of the time in WZs.

 

You're right, we should listen to people like you who spread slander and pollute these forums with misinformation.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Xinika

[Deathstroke]

Go Balance and never look back lest you turn to a pillar of salt The balance spec is highly versatile and really displays the full range of the shadow's capabilities.

[MiaRB]

 

 

You're right, we should listen to people like you who spread slander and pollute these forums with misinformation.

 

slander? really? you are the one who makes personal attacks in this section of the forums. talk about misinformation, lol. sorry, not agreeing with your opinions isnt slander.

[Xinika]

slander? really? you are the one who makes personal attacks in this section of the forums. talk about misinformation, lol. sorry, not agreeing with your opinions isnt slander.

 

Hahaha yeah okay. Says the guy who said that infiltration could beat tank specs 1v1 (Kinetic)

Oh you didn't forget about that one, did you?

[InariOkami]

the ability to use augments on PVP gear after 1.2 boosted overall damage above BW's target numbers in PVP. 1.3 will be adding the ability for even more augment slots for PVP which will push damage even higher above their target numbers. changes to relics and adrenals counter that so damage in PVP doesnt go even higher above their target numbers. those target number apply to every class/AC/spec, not just inf spec or "burst" specs.

 

never listen to people who are always complaining tell you how to play or what to play. 1.3 will be here on tuesday and you will see that you will still do fine. and really, WZ adrenals only last for 25 seconds and have a 3 min CD. relics last 20 seconds and have 2 min CD. so even now, you are playing without either most of the time in WZs.

 

You're vastly overestimating how augments actually affect damage. The only reason TTK went down so much in 1.2 was because of the drastic expertise buff. Even with 6 willpower augments, you only gain about 72 willpower, which only increases damage per GCD by around 23. Compare that to the 12-15% damage increase that occured from the expertise buff and then you'll understand why burst went up so much in 1.2. Adding more augments in 1.3 won't change the fact that TTK is going to go up to almost pre 1.2 levels because of the relic and adrenal change. Getting rid of those destroys on demand burst, and now WZ adrenals are going to be used even more often than before for the damage reduction. Take more time to understand the game before you attack people on their opinions.

[Populism]

MiaRB, I've only read a handful of your posts but your information is laughably inaccurate and it seems like you're a diehard Infil fanboy. I guess having a favourite spec is cool or whatever, but completely disregarding the merits of other specs seems close minded and stupid.

 

Anyway, you seem like you're pretty bad at this game from what I have read and would greatly appreciate it if you stopped posting because you suck.

 

Thanks.

[Daiyukie]

MiaRB, I've only read a handful of your posts but your information is laughably inaccurate and it seems like you're a diehard Infil fanboy. I guess having a favourite spec is cool or whatever, but completely disregarding the merits of other specs seems close minded and stupid.

 

Anyway, you seem like you're pretty bad at this game from what I have read and would greatly appreciate it if you stopped posting because you suck.

 

Thanks.

 

Guildie to the rescue!

[MiaRB]

You're vastly overestimating how augments actually affect damage. The only reason TTK went down so much in 1.2 was because of the drastic expertise buff. Even with 6 willpower augments, you only gain about 72 willpower, which only increases damage per GCD by around 23. Compare that to the 12-15% damage increase that occured from the expertise buff and then you'll understand why burst went up so much in 1.2. Adding more augments in 1.3 won't change the fact that TTK is going to go up to almost pre 1.2 levels because of the relic and adrenal change. Getting rid of those destroys on demand burst, and now WZ adrenals are going to be used even more often than before for the damage reduction. Take more time to understand the game before you attack people on their opinions.

 

im not going to go look for it, was either at guild sumit or maybe one of the weekly Q&As. when talking about the 1.2 changes they said that augments caused their target numbers to be overshot( in PVE as well as PVP). it may not seem like much, but that number gets amplified on crit attacks and gets amplified even more with WZ adrenal boost. the higher your base damage the bigger the boost from WZ adrenals and then those numbers gets amped up even more when you are talking about a team of 8 people.

 

yes, getting rid of WZ adrenal damage boost and the changes to relics will cut down on a damage boost. which is a good thing overall, because the amount of damage people could put out with relics and adrenals was pretty over the top. but, it will not hurt any class/spec more than any other because, as i said, you are spending most of your time in WZs without either.

 

specs that can single target damage with bursts will still burst and will still be effective and needed. with full time static boost from relics and with more augments slots damage will still be up overall in WZs. keeping the damage reduce part of WZ adrenals will counter that somewhat.

 

anyway, tuesday will be here soon enough and everyone can play and see for themselves.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MiaRB