Nyla Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 ... KISS principle "The principle is best exemplified by the story of Johnson handing a team of design engineers a handful of tools, with the challenge that the jet aircraft they were designing must be repairable by an average mechanic in the field under combat conditions with only these tools. Hence, the 'stupid' refers to the relationship between the way things break and the sophistication available to fix them." Modding gear does follow this principle. You get a shell item that defines your look and mods you plug in that define your stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) No flame, but can you please expand on this as you are the first person who I have come across that did not like the appearance tab. My experience with it comes from SWG & AoC & I loved it in each, while there were ways to improve upon each one, they adhered to the KISS system, or "keep it simple stupid" system. KISS principle I will admit that me disliking the appearance tab is a pet peevee of mine. And being a software designer and tester myself, I try to live by the KISS principle. But honestly, appearance tab to me feels like a lazy design mostly. There are other options to make your character look the way you want them to look, but of all options the appearance tab kills the desire to hunt down specific items more than any other. The major reason I dislike it, is because you can 'buy' a look through simple green gear, or by getting the lookalike easilly attained gear of old (which many MMO's add). At least moddable gear created a certain subset of items that are available to create whatever look you want, that is a thing I like about the design direction. Also, appearance tabs are usually very clunky UI wise. Your inventory will need to have 2 slots on each visible item slot or have a seperate tab to arrange looks from stats. The TOR design has all information: looks and stats, in the same inventory space and leaves it there. It is an elegant design that I love. I realise there is a seperate tab to arrange your stats in via the mod stations, but the end result is always visible from one area and one item. So really, the two major reasons are the Oranges create a subset of items you can use to modify your look which you need to hunt down. No getting looks easilly through easilly bought low quality items (keeping the grinding principle to looks as well). And the design itself, from a UI perspective, is a lot more elegant then appearance tabs/slots. PS. And I agree with the poster above me that the mod system does follow the KISS principle. It just feels less simple because it's a new system people need to get used to. Once you are, it is actually very easy to understand and intuitive, something some appearance tab UI's I've seen fail to deliver. PPS. just out of academic fun.. another example of the KISS principle seemingly being ignored but actually being followed. For those who play Magic: The Gathering, recently a new rule was added called Soulbond. The ruling text of it is very complex, but the actual workings of it are very intuitive. So you need some time to get used to it because of the big learning curve from the complex ruling text, but once you are used to it the rule is so intuitive that it actually did follow the KISS principle. Edited June 22, 2012 by Devlonir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xienive Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 KISS is one of my favorite bands, if you make an evil zabrak with normal skin and go dark you kind of look like a missing member of the band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ealaniel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I wish they would. I'm going to beta The Secret World today & I already know that I'm going to spend quite alot of time just messing around with it's character creator & mentally comparing it against TOR's & finding fault w/TOR's just cause I'll be able to actually create a face in The Secret World as opposed to just picking a face like in TOR. Boy are you in for a disappointment. TSW's CC is even worse than SWTOR's. Only one body type, no sliders, less options. The only real customization is in clothing (which they can do since there's no armor.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOGFelix Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I will admit that me disliking the appearance tab is a pet peevee of mine. And being a software designer and tester myself, I try to live by the KISS principle. But honestly, appearance tab to me feels like a lazy design mostly. There are other options to make your character look the way you want them to look, but of all options the appearance tab kills the desire to hunt down specific items more than any other. The major reason I dislike it, is because you can 'buy' a look through simple green gear, or by getting the lookalike easilly attained gear of old (which many MMO's add). At least moddable gear created a certain subset of items that are available to create whatever look you want, that is a thing I like about the design direction. Also, appearance tabs are usually very clunky UI wise. Your inventory will need to have 2 slots on each visible item slot or have a seperate tab to arrange looks from stats. The TOR design has all information: looks and stats, in the same inventory space and leaves it there. It is an elegant design that I love. I realise there is a seperate tab to arrange your stats in via the mod stations, but the end result is always visible from one area and one item. So really, the two major reasons are the Oranges create a subset of items you can use to modify your look which you need to hunt down. No getting looks easilly through easilly bought low quality items (keeping the grinding principle to looks as well). And the design itself, from a UI perspective, is a lot more elegant then appearance tabs/slots. PS. And I agree with the poster above me that the mod system does follow the KISS principle. It just feels less simple because it's a new system people need to get used to. Once you are, it is actually very easy to understand and intuitive, something some appearance tab UI's I've seen fail to deliver. PPS. just out of academic fun.. another example of the KISS principle seemingly being ignored but actually being followed. For those who play Magic: The Gathering, recently a new rule was added called Soulbond. The ruling text of it is very complex, but the actual workings of it are very intuitive. So you need some time to get used to it because of the big learning curve from the complex ruling text, but once you are used to it the rule is so intuitive that it actually did follow the KISS principle. Well thought out and insightful, thank you. Where I do like the ability to customize stats on gear via the ability to change mods & the use of the augment slot, the current implementation is still very clunky to me. With augment slots, it could have just been 1 kit to allow any level augment, keeping the augments with a level restriction to avoid abuse. The lack of orange gear still has a very limited set of choices for the end game. As a Jug I can look like a BH or a Jug, but not some of the more creative choices of gear I can equip, while this palette will expand come 1.3, it is still rather limited. As for the armor out there to get, I am all for having exotic sets and pieces that are earned not just made or found on a Koraban, but the appearance tab should not affect this implementation. In AoC, every class had an end game armor set & looked like little clones running around, (sound familiar TOR *cough*), the addition of the appearance tab, created many more creative looks and variations. Once that was implemented, I was a much happier customer as the ease of use was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOGFelix Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Boy are you in for a disappointment. TSW's CC is even worse than SWTOR's. Only one body type, no sliders, less options. The only real customization is in clothing (which they can do since there's no armor.) ^ This. It was a big let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Zorth_ Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 There is a ton of customization in this game already. I can't see where this would be of any priority. No there isn't, You don't have an appearance tab to customize your gear, You actually have to pay credits to pull mods out then put them into your desired gear piece. You only have 4 body types for each gender across all races, With all your gear put on everybody looks the same and there is no way to tell if someone is a zabrak, pureblood or cyborg if they ahve their helmet on.. They don't even let you know what GENDER the character you are inspecting is or even what moral alignment they have, something that is apparently a bug focus of this game? There are so many things to add here, First would be the convinience of an appearance tab, Second would be a wide variety of body types and races. Not just a human with different colors. Give us bizzare creatures to play as!! Third would be to let us actually know more details about the player we are inspecting i.e What gender they are or what alignment they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
split_light Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I know I'm biased, because the game I've previously played most is City of Heroes, which is the ultimate in character customization. That said, more is always better. I think developers often underestimate the importance of being able to have your own unique look, at least to a large subset of players. If they could add even one more face, hair, ornament, tattoo, or whatever per major expansion, people would be thrilled. Add a few more social outfits and they'll win the eternal devotion of a a good chunk of players who care far more about their look then almost any other facet of the game. I know at least 2 people who gimp themselves at least somewhat so they can look how they want. You may call them foolish, but that's what gives them enjoyment, and they aren't alone. There's an even larger group who are tempted to, but just can't quite bring themselves to put on the lesser gear. If the gear was there though, they'd wear it and be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapmaker Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 This is by far the weakest aspect of the game. At some point they need to allow us to customize our characters through a "barber" shop and more importantly dye kits for armors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ealaniel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I know I'm biased, because the game I've previously played most is City of Heroes, which is the ultimate in character customization. That said, more is always better. I think developers often underestimate the importance of being able to have your own unique look, at least to a large subset of players. Ok, let's be fair. CoH is truly amazing in the number of possible options you can put together. That said, because of their engine and its age, all the options look pretty bad compared to a modern MMO like SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol-Ra Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 and i believe it will be tied to the legacy system, so will only work on new chars. (which is pointless for those of us that had to consolidate all their chars onto one server and have no more room.) Sadly this may be the way they go, very SOEish. Give us what we want but not directly. Many of us asked for more customization from the start and it seemed to go unheard. I mean body type 2.5 anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimunga Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm a little disappointed with the character customization process, but not totally so. I understand that they don't want to fully let you customize faces (meaning you have like 12 set faces, 4 Caucasian looking, 4 Asian looking, and 4 African looking), because it would probably interfere with the cut scenes. I also get that each gender/class combo has the same voice, but it would be nice if you could mod the pitch a bit. I'm about as happy with the hairstyles in this game as I am with the dumb hats. There aren't enough, and most of them are ridiculous. There are only like 4 or 5 that I find bare able. There are no long haired options. I get that graphics wise, it's hard to figure out, because of all the crap that's sometimes on your back, but come one, it's 2012. You can figure it out. You figured out how to have chest pieces and skirts that are actually interacting with what you do, why not hair? But my favorite race is Rattataki, so It's a little moot for me. (Really, I just want to have a ****** long-haired ginger like the bounty hunter in the cinematics) One thing I was disappointed in in the lack of legacy customization. Meaning, if I max out a bounty hunter, trooper or warrior, (maybe even a Rattataki) I'd like to have access to their facial tattoos. If I max and inquisitor, I'd like to have access to the scars on the rest of my characters. Little things like that would make a big difference for me. Also, I want to have a skinny female character (body type one), but I hate the faces that go along with them. They all look like they just sucked an orange. Just a little pet peeve of mine. It looks ridiculous. On a slightly related note, I think appearance tabs are stupid. You should not be able to change the look of your gear to the look of different gear. Orange gear does that for you. Find a piece you like, then keep it, and keep modding it. When I played WoW, and they added tranmogrification (the wow version of the appearance tab) it literally killed my will to play the game (it was already dying, this was the last stoke of the sword, I suppose). I went back, did some easy dungeons, got the exact gear I wanted, and I never needed another piece of gear again, because it was always a dress up game for me anyways. So... no, appearance tabs suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholylightsaber Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 There is a ton of customization in this game already. I can't see where this would be of any priority. I wouldn't say they have a "ton", at most they have a "few" for character creation, but most are just ugly in all honesty. Too many times I have seen female characters with the small ponytail and the one-sided bang hairstyle, and I can agree that's only 1 of the 3-4 good hairstyles females get, of the 20+ they have. Plus, there's not one single hairstyle that extends below the shoulders...I know it's not Star Warsy to have long hair, but most of us find long hair beautiful, or appealing. And notice how I'm just talking about the hairstyles alone when there's a few other features that are very limited. I really hope they add more in-depth features and options to the character creation screen real soon. I would LOVE to spend 2 hours on making a new character look real good, but instead I only spend about 5-10 minutes on this game, create the character, find it unappealing with endgame gear, and delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comstrike Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 There is a ton of customization in this game already. I can't see where this would be of any priority. Really? I'm not seeing it. We are talking about the kind of great things you can do with LOTRO's system. THAT is customization, not coordinated gear. In fact I don't even rate what they've done as being worth calling customization. And I've said that since before launch. It was one of the specific topics the marketing ninjas hammered down on. They had a standard line of spin every time anybody asked. "Oh, well you'll have a wide range of gear to outfit your character with." End of comment. Nothing more. I didn't expect anything at launch. Took LOTRO a long while to get their system developed. But it is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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