Guardians & Juggernauts are Ball Hogs

[richardya]

Do not get me wrong, they are the best ball carriers in the game. But, these guys never pass. Generalizing, but it's true. Not for everyone, well maybe everyone, not sure.

I played sports (unlike most of you (joke)) as a youngster and we had people like this on our teams.

 

Thanks, I needed to get that off my chest. I feel much better now.

Edited June 21, 2012 by richardya

[Lymain]

Passing is risky and we can just jump to teammates every 20 seconds. We've gotten enough leaping interceptions to know just how risky it can be!

[unixbomber]

... lol

[richardya]

Passing is risky and we can just jump to teammates every 20 seconds. We've gotten enough leaping interceptions to know just how risky it can be!

 

I am on the other side of the fire, you have five people beating on you, I can do it, I know I can make it the last 20 feet to the goal line if you just pass me the ball, give my GS a chance.

 

And please dont give me the "sorry bro, didn't see you" I know you lie.

Edited June 21, 2012 by richardya

[Lymain]

I am on the other side of the fire, you have five people beating on you, I can do it, I know I can make it the last 20 feet to the goal line if you just pass me the ball, give my GS a chance. And please dont give me the "sorry bro, didn't see you" I know you lie.

 

Maybe if you're in cover.

[Astarica]

I remember someons said "Passing leads to interceptions" in one of those 'dumb things you heard in WZ', but this statement is surprisingly true. Unless you're passing to a Force Shrouded Tankasin, you've significantly less than 50% chance of making a successful pass (50% it gets intercepted, plus some unknown % of any number of CC that knocks the receiver away) while Intercede is going to get you there 100% of the time.

 

The problem is that even when you you think you have great position, you really don't because there is a PT waiting at the bottom of the pit ready to grapple you back as soon as you caught the ball. The reason he hasn't grappled the Jugg yet is because he knows the Jugg will just charge back up, so he's hoping the Jugg will pass it to someone who can't leap back up. Now of course sometimes you must pass (if you're about to die, for example) but the receiver is rarely as open as they thought they are.

[LarryRow]

I remember someons said "Passing leads to interceptions" in one of those 'dumb things you heard in WZ', but this statement is surprisingly true. Unless you're passing to a Force Shrouded Tankasin, you've significantly less than 50% chance of making a successful pass (50% it gets intercepted, plus some unknown % of any number of CC that knocks the receiver away) while Intercede is going to get you there 100% of the time.

 

You are very unlucky; I find passing to be surprisingly reliable.

 

That said, I am still going to Guardian Leap to you. Why? Because I can jump through the next fire pit and you can't. Or I can push someone through it and then jump to him. Meanwhile, you are still in a good position to get in front of me for another leap or a pass.

 

However, I always pass to teammates in the endzone if Guardian Leap is on CD. Many times I have squeaked out a pass just before resolve wore off and I got grappled somewhere bad.

[Aetou]

The problem is that even when you you think you have great position, you really don't because there is a PT waiting at the bottom of the pit ready to grapple you back as soon as you caught the ball. The reason he hasn't grappled the Jugg yet is because he knows the Jugg will just charge back up, so he's hoping the Jugg will pass it to someone who can't leap back up. Now of course sometimes you must pass (if you're about to die, for example) but the receiver is rarely as open as they thought they are.

 

This.

 

The number of times I've passed it to the guy on the other side of the fire only for him to get pulled/KBed and then mess up passing it back to me... It's just so much safer and easier to wait the 6s for my leap to come off CD and then jump to you. Now, if you were a shadow with resilience and force speed I'd be confident of you making it to the line and so make the pass while turning back to mid but almost any other class is too much of a liability. Let me get across the fire to you then run into their endzone and then I'll throw it to you if you're open although to be honest some classes should just never be there (Gunslingers being a good example) and so I may just run it in out of principle.

[richardya]

although to be honest some classes should just never be there (Gunslingers being a good example) and so I may just run it in out of principle.

 

GS is very underrated in huttball. You guys may not see it, but a well timed flash grenade, a well timed root and well timed super knockback, a well timed aimed shot knockback, is the reason you are not dead. Sometimes we, for whatever reason, end up on the offensive part of the field. We can also hold the ball in cover with hunker down until someone is in position for a pass and no one will pull us anywhere.

Edited June 21, 2012 by richardya

[Astarica]

Passing is at best 50/50 if it's covered. It's lower than that because while both side can use various CC (mostly KBs), if both get KBed the passing still fails (no receiver) so the defender wins more than 50% of the time. If the best ball runner is already pressured it's hard to see having a completely open defender that isn't even covered, but let's just assume that there's a guy standing past the final fire pit from scoring with no enemy covering him, and you the ball carrier is behind it. Assume the Jugg is in no immediate danger of dying but it pressured heavily (otherwise you obviously have to pass).

 

First of all the Jugg is likely to have a full resolve bar because if not, someone should be trying to knock him down or into the fire pit. This means once he gets past the fire pit whether through running or intercede it should be a sure goal because they can't use CC on him.

 

But let's say resolve bar isn't filled for the Jugg. It isn't filled for the guy who is open because he hasn't been fighting anyone that can fill it up. So in this case it's likely whoever has the ball gets knocked down or grappled. However, if the guy getting knocked down is the Jugg he can intercede back to the receiver, Force Charge someone near the receiver (you'd think someone ought to try to kill the receiver sooner or later), or pass. If the receiver get knocked down, he can only pass it back up to the Jugg, plus possibly charge. Intercede is not an option obviously.

 

So Jugg getting knocked down has 3 ways to get back up compared to at most 2 for whoever that isn't the Jugg receiving.

 

Now of course this is assuming there is no immediate of dying. If there is, that changes everything. That said, although I can't prove it, I certainly hear a lot of "Rotworm pass intercepted oh the disgrace!" in Huttball. I don't know if that happens more than "Rotworms just ripped the ball handler apart!" but it certainly happens a lot.

[TheronFett]

If I'm carrying the ball with my Guardian, you'd better be WIDE OPEN in order to expect a pass from me. Especially if I have any kind of support with me while I'm carrying. Because:

 

A) Even if you are in fact, wide open, most of you will run out of the pass circle when I throw it to you

B) Those of you with stealth have been known to vanish when the ball is heading your direction because you simply don't want it

C) Most of the rest of you lack any kind of situational awareness to get the ball to the goal line

[Seravis]

I could explain to in GREAT detail about it all but...

 

The simplest and most effective strategy is to just have a Tank Juggernaut hold the ball in the enemy pit until he can Leap to an ally or enemy at the goal line. Only real way to counter it is by having a ******** of Pulls on your team.

 

Now if said Juggernauts are DIEING with the ball then they are retarded.(as in they have no healers on their team, and they should have realized it and passed the ball)

[Aetou]

GS is very underrated in huttball. You guys may not see it, but a well timed flash grenade, a well timed root and well timed super knockback, a well timed aimed shot knockback, is the reason you are not dead. Sometimes we, for whatever reason, end up on the offensive part of the field. We can also hold the ball in cover with hunker down until someone is in position for a pass and no one will pull us anywhere.

 

I don't under-rate Gunslingers at Huttball, I just am pretty sure that they should almost never be so far forward that they are past the last fire pit instead of making sure we have full control of Mid (which is what they excel at.) Going past the first pit to be a leap target is great, running all the way to the enemy endzone isn't so good in 95% of circumstances.

 

Get the ball, stop the enemy getting the ball, killing the ball carrier, snaring and killing people attacking the ball carrier... all valid functions a GS should be doing and can do well. If you're playing deep offense, though, you probably should be leaving that to other people on your team.

[Astarica]

The survivality + movement ability of the premier ball carrying classes is just so great that passing the ball to a lesser ball carrier should be a last resort, like when you're about to die. Especially in the case of Jugg, you pretty much are just there for him to intercede, or show up as bait for the enemy to grapple instead of the Jugg.

 

Now I know there are times when you see a guy die 10m from endzone and you say 'OMG PASS" but again, if he passed there's generally a less than 50% chance of succeeding (whoever killed him is probably in range to cover you, the passer is probably moving and in a state of duress, and you might be moving too), and if you're 10m from goal it's certainly reasonable to think the runner could've succeeded at least 50% of the time. After all, I'm sure we all have had time where we scored and then immediately died, but that's still good for a goal. So again it's still a matter of probabilities. If you run the ball you've about 50% chance of succeeding, if you pass you usually have less than 50% of completing the pass even in the endzone, so you still shouldn't pass. Yes, sometimes you'd be wrong, but over the long run you should still come out ahead.

[DocSinn]

Like football or basketball, its all about making the SMART pass. SMART passing is essential to winning huttball. Knowing when to pass it and who to pass it to makes all the difference. Huttball requires teamwork. There is no middle ground in huttball. You are either helping your team win, or helping them lose.

 

Knowing when to pass, when to dead the ball, and when to grind it to the goal line is the difference between winning and losing.

[EbonFade]

Like football or basketball, its all about making the SMART pass. SMART passing is essential to winning huttball. Knowing when to pass it and who to pass it to makes all the difference. Huttball requires teamwork. There is no middle ground in huttball. You are either helping your team win, or helping them lose.

 

Knowing when to pass, when to dead the ball, and when to grind it to the goal line is the difference between winning and losing.

 

It's in general a really bad idea to pass if you are a main tank. It's better for your team to pull you/keep you up.

 

The reason it's better is bc it's more controlled and less randomized. Some1 you pass the ball will not have guard and might be losing the healers. He also might not have a resolve bar or CDs up and can readily be pulled into a fire or back in the pit. It's just a bad play more often than nought and will lose the game against a good team.

[Dracosz]

Speak for yourself son >_>

[Astarica]

Like football or basketball, its all about making the SMART pass. SMART passing is essential to winning huttball. Knowing when to pass it and who to pass it to makes all the difference. Huttball requires teamwork. There is no middle ground in huttball. You are either helping your team win, or helping them lose.

 

Knowing when to pass, when to dead the ball, and when to grind it to the goal line is the difference between winning and losing.

 

This sounds like the sports analyst that takes about how the team just need to 'play defense better' because clearly pro players go in with the plan of 'not play defense'.

 

Passing is dumb. If the decision isn't so dead obvious then it's probably not a good time to pass. You should pass when you're about to die. You should pass if the guy is past the first fire pit while you have the ball just past the acid pit. These cases are so obvious even very bad players will do it because it's literally a no brainer.

 

The more complicated cases for passing almost invariably favors toward not passing. Huttball is not won on making the decision to pass on a position where it's 51% correct to pass. It's about making the pass when it is 100% correct to pass. If there's some kind of game highlight to show the pass you did, it's only a good pass if everyone looks at it and say, "Yep, definitely should've passed there." If you have a play like say you've 50% health, 10m from endzone and you pass it to another guy in endzone that was covered. Regardless of what the outcome is, if you ask 5 guys on what they think about that play you could get 5 different results. That's an example of where you probably should not pass.

[LarryRow]

Some good points about people moving out of passing circles. I try to stand somewhere advantageous and jump up and down to signal I want a pass and won't move. Sometimes I attract enemy attention, but I feel it's a decent trade-off.