^This. I hear so much "Carebear This" and "Carebear That" nonsense. BW, for all their faults, create a place where anything goes and guess what? It's almost always empty. Wonder why that is? If you and yours are so hyped up for free for all, no holds barred pvp then why arent you at the place that provides free for all, no holds barred pvp? I've got three guesses. The first two dont count....

It was not just about this game. It was about the MMO industry in general. It was accurate to a large degree also. MMOs on a whole are on a decline. Read and decide for yourself. http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/mmo-dying-223042438.html

To the OP: Give up. You will convince no one. MMO players do not understand nor do they wish to understand the concept of competitive player vs. player. They dont pvp for the enjoyment of pvp or for the spirit of competition. They do it for gear. If there was no gear, they wouldnt do it. They are not interested in competition. They are interested in making their characters as strong as possible. What they and developers fail to realize is that gear progression pvp is only going to attract a certain amount of people. Even the mighty World of Warcraft could not sustain viable pvp through gear progression. Veteran players will always punish newbs because they have the advantage. They've been playing and grinding gear. Newbs get pummeled and have two choices: 1. Grind the gear also or 2. Stop playing. What MMO PvPers dont realize is that, especially with the console market becoming more and more versatile, most players are going to take Option 2. The truth is right in front of you. Rated PvP que times are terrible. SWTOR PvP on a whole is frowned upon by the community. MMO subscriptions ACROSS THE BOARD are down. Only a handful of games are able to maintain thier playerbase without going F2P. FPS shooters sell in the hundreds of millions. There are tens of millions of players. Because despite their flaws(cheaters, exploits, etc) the PvP is based on your performance, not how long you grinded gear. But you arent going to convince the MMO community(at least not this one) of this. So stop trying. Play until you stop having fun. When its no longer fun, quit. Talk with your money. But you are wasting your time here.....

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what happens when gear progression invades PvP. The moment you introduce gear progression into a PvP setting, you get "individuals" like this who believe they should faceroll other players simply because of what they are wearing. Players who barely know how to play their class but believe that because they grinded out top tier gear they should automatically win. To the OP, your problem is simple. You think your gear is an automatic IWIN button. You are wrong. Improve your playing skills and maybe you'll stop "falling over" to recruits.

Signed, signed, and signed again. I dont know why BW doesnt let us choose which WZ to que up for. It seems ridiculous. Unlike the OP I'm not all that interested in the Star Wars Game Show Death Match(Huttball). I enjoy Voidstar and Novare Coast. But I agree wholeheartedly that we should be able to choose what WZ we want to play. There is simply no good reason why we shouldnt. Agree 100% with this post. Let us choose what WZ to play.

Celebrity gamer = Kim Kardashian with an Xbox Controller. Pro gamer = LeBron James leveling a Sentinel. Outside of that, there is no such thing as a "pro celeb" gamer. Want to test it? Ask anyone outside of the gaming community to name just two celebrity gamers. Now ask anyone outside of the basketball community who Kobe Bryant is. LOL @ "Pro Celeb" gamers.....

The problem with arenas in SWTOR is the same problem that will rear its head Tuesday when Ranked PvP hits. The game isnt balanced for it. There are still several class issues that need to be addressed. Arenas are one of those ideas that sound good on paper, but in practice(particularly in an MMO) is just not feasible. Certain classes and teams will dominate. The player base will express discontent. Bioware will be forced to nerf and buff classes in the name of "balance". Raids, PvE content, and even WZs will become collateral damage from the nerfs and buffs to "balance" arena. The end result would be a mess. Truthfully I can see a similar scenario taking place next week. SWTOR simply is not ready class wise for this. It is exacerbated by the fact that certain classes perform better than others under certain circumstances and in certain WZs.(Juggs and Assassins excel in Huttball, Operatives and Mara/Sents excel in Alderaan for example). Proper map design would have to be taken into account. You cant just throw 4 people in a room and have them fight it out. It wouldnt work. I'd like to one day see Arena competition in SWTOR. But not now. Not any time soon. Not at this stage of the game's development. It's not ready and I'm sure you are reasonable enough to see that.

Like football or basketball, its all about making the SMART pass. SMART passing is essential to winning huttball. Knowing when to pass it and who to pass it to makes all the difference. Huttball requires teamwork. There is no middle ground in huttball. You are either helping your team win, or helping them lose. Knowing when to pass, when to dead the ball, and when to grind it to the goal line is the difference between winning and losing.

Such a tiresome subject.....people let it go. Roll a Sent/Mara, learn their weaknesses, or unsub. These threads....jesus....enough already...

And that is why MMO pvp is dying and MMOs are regressing back into the nich genre they once were. Developers are too afraid to push the boundaries. So while the rest of the gaming industry continues to take revolutionary strides forward, MMOs will continue to be stuck in neutral.....and subs will continue to fall. Check the clock. MMOs subs are down across the board. SWTOR is a just a face in the crowd.....

MMOs in general are dying. The problem is the MMO industry as a whole, not just one game. MMOs have became stagnant, stale copies of themselves. Sure some of them have a few different bells and whistles, but for the most part MMOs are one big "been there done that" experience. The complacency of MMO developers is driving the industry downward. They are slowly but steadily killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. Look at the evolution of PC, Console, and Handheld games over the past decade. Gaming in 2012 looks nothing like gaming 2002. Games today are light years ahead of games 10 years ago. Now look at MMOs. Virtually nothing has changed. It's the same experience you remember from 10+ years ago. Fetch it quests. Predictable instanced raids that are little more than gear vending machines. Grind oriented progression. Imbalanced PvP bound by the PvE trinity(tank/healer/dps). This is the state of virtually every MMO on the market. You arent going to see the type of players WoW enjoyed in its prime from ANY GAME(including WoW itself) until developers show some stones and do something new. MMOs are on their way to being a nich genre again and that wont change until someone breaks out of the same old same old mentality and start pushing the boundaries of the industry.

I've never set foot in a lower level area with the distinct purpose of killing someone lower level than me. When I want PvP, I fight people my level or higher. Why? Because I dont get better face rolling greys. I know you dont believe that. I know you dont understand that. I also know why you dont believe or understand it. It's because deep down, its YOU and people like you who are the TRUE care bears. People who are afraid of a real fight. People who roll in packs because you dont have the stones to stand on your own, even in a lowbie area. People who need to camp lowbie quest givers and claim you are doing it to stir up high levels, even though there is no one near your level in sight and if you wanted to stir up a high level, you'd roll up to a high level area and attack them. I always roll on a PvP server. Always. I never complain about getting ganked. Ever. I also never gank lowbies. Why? Because I am PVPER! Its you and people like you who are the true care bears. Poor pvpers who cannot handle a real fight on even terms. You cant conceive or believe that because true care bears actually think griefing is PvP. The reality is that its you that should be on a PvE or RP server because without your level advantage, you'd likely be fodder for all the REAL PvPers. I reiterate. Ganking is not against TOS. It's also par for the course on a PvP server. But stop making excuses for why you do it. Everyone knows why....even you. Care Bear.....

See? Perfect example right here. I didnt say I didnt World PvP. I said I didnt gank lowbies. The fact that you dont see a distinction proves my point.

World PvP, ganking, attacking lowbies etc is not against TOS on a PvP server. When you roll on a PvP server and you are in a contested area, you should expect to be attacked at any moment. That is the reality of a PvP server. Now that said, lets stop pretending World PvP is anything but a lowbie gankfest. Let's stop pretending that the people ganking lowbies are "trying to summon higher lvls to compete with". Thats BS and everyone knows this. If you wanted high level PvP you'd go to where high levels are or compete in WZs with the big boys. Let's stop pretending that gankers are looking for fun and challenge. If you are at the level cap killing lowbies you are not looking for fun and challenge. You are looking to grief. Period. Just own it. I roll on PvP servers when I play MMOs. I dont gank. Ever. But I dont cry, b****, or moan when I get killed by a higher level. Why? Because I rolled on a PvP server and that's what happens on PvP servers. It helps me learn evasion tactics and it helps to point out who the bad players are(you know, the ones in the lowbie zone ganking people instead of competing in their own weight class). But lets stop the nonsense. Stop the lies. You arent trying to create meaningful PvP when you gank lowbies. You arent trying to stir up high levels(why would you go to a LOWBIE area to stir up high levels?). You are looking to grief. You need to feel strong and what better way to stroke your E-Peen than to kill someone you know cant fight you back. Period. This is why truly competitive gamers laugh out loud at MMO World PvP. Because they know that MMO World PvP as it exists in most games is just cellar dwellers looking to frustrate lower level players because they can. Is it against TOS? Nope. Should people who dont want to get ganked roll on PvE servers? Yep. Are gankers just griefers looking to exploit their obvious advantage for s**** and giggles? Yep.....

If that is the case, then Pyrotechs, Operatives, Assassins, DPS Juggernaughts and Snipers also need a nerf because each one of these classes will eat an unguarded healer for breakfast. There is a reason Taunt and Guard exist in PvP. Use them. My suggestion is not 2 v 1, 1 v 1 or anyone variant of "v 1". My suggestion is to work as a team. I know working as a team is not very popular these days and showboating is the thing now but working as team = victory. As for being on top, to be honest with you, I'm right where I've always been. Bad players get sent to their spawn with the quickness. Good players make me hard work for it. Great players push me to the limit and one mistake means I'm done. I dont have a E-Peen to bruise. SWTOR is a game, nothing more. I'm simply hoping that somewhere along the line people stop exaggerating and stop making NERF(INSERT CLASS HERE) threads and actually start looking into what is truly causing class imbalance. Oh and I'm not whining. I've been playing my characters since Day 1 and I'll be playing them until I unsub, come what may. I'm just trying to inject some sense into this. Nerfing one class doesnt create balance. Once Mara gets nerfed, you guys will be moaning about a different AC in short order. If its truly balance you want, you are going about it all wrong. I'm out.