Thoughts on GameSpy's Article on SWTOR

[Dezzi]

But not a new one. If I recall, City of Heroes was the first to do this.

 

Essentially, I have a problem with comparing a game to another in the genre instead of the genre as a whole. SW:TOR does things better than GW2. GW2 does things better than SW:TOR. It is asinine to dispute that - almost as asinine as it is for "journalists" to go out of their way to state one-half of the argument for the sake of hits.

 

You're more than welcome to go write an editorial about it.

[Photoshop]

I'm just looking forward to Star Wars 1313.

[MasterKayote]

There is a massive difference that you are ignoring, perhaps to suit your own purposes.

 

The public has played GW2, several times, for long periods of time not just short demos and the general response is that the game is delivering on the promises, living up to the hype, and people cannot wait to get back in.

 

So yeah.. different situation I am affraid.

 

What purposes do I have exactly? I always knew what SWTOR was ... I knew id start skipping dialogue sooner or later, I knew the combat was nothing to gawk at, and I always called companions glorified pets (and dislike having to use them to this day). I have no loyalty to Bioware and specially not EA. SWTOR had its beta's as well. Some testers loved it, some didnt ... same as GW2. Bioware may have kept the NDA up for a long time but there were plenty of leaked sites everywhere with literal copies of the beta forums. There is no difference at all, just a different flavor of hype. These writers are writing what will get them the most attention (clicks, hits, whatever) SWTOR is the newest MMO toy out there thats noticeable ... its on the news and still being promoted, GW2 is the next big competitor, you do the math.

 

The funny is part is that none of the things you mention are a product of hype or being misled. All of that is there. And the perception of those features remains true for a lot of players. For SW:TOR, people were not misled by the developers themselves - they created their own bloated perceptions based on personal, and unrealistic (SW:G fanboys, anyone?) expectations.

 

If the hype about Guild Wars 2 was to be believed, content would have to be created in real-time as players experience it.

 

Hype doesnt = false. Any writer worth his salt can take any standard feature and hype it up to no end without saying a single lie. This causes excitement to the readers, getting them more attention. Had the writer actually commented truthfully, compared the games strengths to the best out there ... we probably wouldnt even have this thread right now.

 

And yes, those features are there but now that the hype is gone people are seeing it as just another mediocre feature and hardly care about it anymore. Before the dialogue meant something in TOR, people loved taking part in it, and playing with the different options. Now is just a repetitive pos that leads to nothing and is being overshadowed but the "short/easy end-game," or the "increasingly stale PvP".... take your pick. Same will happen with GW2 and its hyped up features ... hype will fall, the media drones will move on to comparing Secret World or whichever other MMO to GW2 and we all repeat the process again and again.

 

Aion had its special PvP promises and "aerial combat,"....

WAR had its PvP, its Public Quests....

AoC had its dialogue, its combat ....

SWTOR had its stories, companions, choices ...

WoW? Had nothing ... "easier leveling maybe?" Yet thats the jackpot winner somehow ...... go figure

Edited June 20, 2012 by MasterKayote

[Shingara]

I wasn't aware that gear had to have any point beyond appearance, though gear does provide customizable stat bonuses in GW2. That said, gear of your non-modified level drops in "lowbie" areas.

 

Extremely elegant solution.

 

so beyond apperance gear is nothing ? why not just go buy costumes from the cash shop there, if its detuning you and auto doing your stats when you go lower and thats classed as endgame what is the point of doing top level where its not tunning you.

 

All that will happen is there is a fav dynamic event for everyone and they all do that and swamp that event on farm status.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Shingara

[Lundli]

Dynamic events were much-lauded in Rift, too. Early on, they were great. The Invasions, even better.

 

Have you been there lately?

 

This can't be stressed enough, once the newness wears off people tend to not bother.. to be fair, they had to scale back on things and what they had planned because the engine couldn't cope.

[Muskaan]

This can't be stressed enough, once the newness wears off people tend to not bother.. to be fair, they had to scale back on things and what they had planned because the engine couldn't cope.

 

Yep. Once the newness wears off, people will just stop caring.

[Dezzi]

so beyond apperance gear is nothing ? why not just go buy costumes from the cash shop there, if its detuning you and auto doing your stats when you go lower and thats classed as endgame what is the point of doing top level where its not tunning you.

 

Correct, in games where gear isn't the home of your stats. Your gear gives you bonuses in GW2, like it does in any game, but your basic stats are scaled down in PvE and scaled up in PvP. A guy wearing +10 precision gear who is leveled 10 (5) is going to do better than me, as a level 10 (5) in +5 precision gear.

[Bloodstealer]

All of which you just wrote still holds true in TOR today. None of that was made up. I love those parts of the game. In my opinion, those 3 things are still big selling points and they are what I love about this game. So, your point is moot, even if you had one.

 

I think that poster has a good poont and anyone who has been around the MMO block will understand this this... its a decent enought game, largely outdated with poor combat mechaincs and being held together by its VO storyline that grows thin after the 2nd alt... and they think legacy unlocking of playable races is going to appease this... the same tired storylines over and over only serves to accelerat the players desire to space bar through and move on ASAP the next 25% of its player base grows tired of the highly rpetitive worlds they play within... shame really.. decent game that had much potential sadly seems to be facing the big red danger sign by the clifffedge... maybe F2P will be its saviour

[Shingara]

Correct, in games where gear isn't the home of your stats. Your gear gives you bonuses in GW2, like it does in any game, but your basic stats are scaled down in PvE and scaled up in PvP. A guy wearing +10 precision gear who is leveled 10 (5) is going to do better than me, as a level 10 (5) in +5 precision gear.

 

Your missing the point, Lets make player A, hello player A what are you doing today, Well there mr shingara today i will mainly be buying a karma buff and farming the hell out of the dynamic event in the starter area, doing this i shall get a shed load of karma, gold and item drops.

 

Really Player A you can do this.

 

Of course says player A, there is no reason what so ever for me todo top level, i can just sit here and farm this dynamic event and buy gear from the karma i earned, and sell the drops on the auction house. fun itsn it.

 

No not really says I.

[Dezzi]

Your missing the point, Lets make player A, hello player A what are you doing today, Well there mr shingara today i will mainly be buying a karma buff and farming the hell out of the dynamic event in the starter area, doing this i shall get a shed load of karma, gold and item drops.

 

Really Player A you can do this.

 

Of course says player A, there is no reason what so ever for me todo top level, i can just sit here and farm this dynamic event and buy gear from the karma i earned, and sell the drops on the auction house. fun itsn it.

 

No not really says I.

 

Then don't do it and play the game the same way everyone else will be.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Dezzi

[Arkerus]

I think that poster has a good poont and anyone who has been around the MMO block will understand this this... its a decent enought game, largely outdated with poor combat mechaincs and being held together by its VO storyline that grows thin after the 2nd alt... and they think legacy unlocking of playable races is going to appease this... the same tired storylines over and over only serves to accelerat the players desire to space bar through and move on ASAP the next 25% of its player base grows tired of the highly rpetitive worlds they play within... shame really.. decent game that had much potential sadly seems to be facing the big red danger sign by the clifffedge... maybe F2P will be its saviour

 

I don't even...opinion..not fact...mind, can't, cope with comments...like this....

[Shingara]

Then don't do it and play the game the same way everyone else will be.

 

So you dont think thats what people will be doing then. if in swtor we could farm a dynamic event at the respective level, we got a currency to buy the best gear like black hole commendations, we got gear drops of our level and gold that we could do constantly on taris or tat lets say, whats the point of doing anything else especialy when we can buy a buff that increases the currency we can earn in a set time limit.

 

I would sure as hell do that all the time and just be q'd for warzones.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Shingara

[Dezzi]

I don't even...opinion..not fact...mind, can't, cope with comments...like this....

What? Bloodstealer was only responding with his opinion to another opinion. What makes the guy he was responding to anymore right or wrong than he is?

All of which you just wrote still holds true in TOR today. None of that was made up. I love those parts of the game. In my opinion, those 3 things are still big selling points and they are what I love about this game. So, your point is moot, even if you had one.

All opinion. So what?

[kevlarto]

I see allot of personal preferance in that stroy, I have seen gw2 in action, and it really is not that different from any other game on the market, a few nice twists and turns, one thing gw2 has that is really nice imho is the world vs world pvp.

I think once gw2 goes live we will hear allot of complaints like all games, it will do well because the buy and play model is very popular, gw2 is built around MT's will see how that fly's with allot of folks.

 

But in the end two very different games, that will appeal to two very different kinds of players, I might play gw2 at some point, down the road, but for now I am home here in ToR, I have not fallen in the transient gamer state, flip flopping to every new game that comes out, I am sure gw2 will be there when I am ready to play it and if not oh well..LOL

[Dezzi]

So you dont think thats what people will be doing then. if in swtor we could farm a dynamic event at the respective level, we got a currency to buy the best gear, we got gear drops of our level and gold that we could do conatsntly on taris lets say, whats the point of doing anything else especialy when we can buy a buff that increases the currency we can earn in a set time limit.

 

I would sure as hell do that all the time and just be q'd for warzones.

 

It's a perfectly legitimate, albeit not very fun way to play the game. If someone wants to spend their time grinding out low level events and dungeons, that's their prerogative. The player in your example is not gaming anything or doing anything counter to the rules of the game. His level is scaled down, so he will perform like a well-geared lowbie.

 

So what?

 

I guess I just don't understand your point...

Edited June 20, 2012 by Dezzi

[Fox_McCloud]

Dynamic events were much-lauded in Rift, too. Early on, they were great. The Invasions, even better.

 

Have you been there lately?

 

Sorry your logic does not hold up.

 

One of World of Warcrafts biggest contributions to the MMO genre was the idea that leveling should be done by doing quest after quest after quest in order to draw your attention away from the fact that you were grinding out XP for leveling purposes. It did this rather successfully.

 

However Everquest had quests too, like.. enough quests to give you 1 out of your 65 levels =P

 

The difference was the scale and the fact that World of Warcraft had been built from the ground up. It was revolutionary with "quest leveling" and it worked, even though questing had been done before.

 

In the same way, dynamic events have been done before in games like warhammer and rift. However just like in Everquest vs World of warcraft, the scale is completely off. Guild Wars 2 is built from the ground up around the idea that dynamic event leveling is how you should level, and much the same way that World of Warcraft defined Quests, Guild Wars 2 is defining dynamic events.

 

So in the end your comparison is way off base.

 

Human beings like to establish routines. As a whole, we like having things run smoothly, without interruption, and in the time frame we want them to run in. Anyone see where this is going yet?...

 

Human beings do not like change. As a whole, we don't like it when things become different. Things like, not being able to vendor items because no one is fighting invasions, or other Random Events any more. Things like, no matter how they purportedly scale, my choice is now to go somewhere else, or deal with this thing that is now in my way.

 

There is some truth to what you are saying, and thats why the MAJOR cities in GW2 for each race (like the fleet in SWTOR, or Orgrimmar/Stormwind in WoW) are not up for being over run by dynamic events. They are safe places where you can count on your vendor being there every time you go.

 

Out in the world however, when you go adventuring, that is compeltely different, things are different and exciting, and that IS what players are wanting now and from having played GW2 the feedback is extremely positive.

 

Remember back when Everquest was THE mmo to play, people sat around in groups they didnt necessarily want to be in because you couldnt solo, and just grinded monsters for XP. World of Warcraft came along and said every class can now solo no problem at all, and questing shall be how you level now, no more grinding mobs for xp. Guess what? WoW was a HUGE success, people loved it. It changed. People will accept certain change. Guild Wars 2 is along this level of change.

 

Keep cheering for GW2 as this revolutionary *next coming.* It is neither revolutionary, nor will it be evolutionary.

 

People said the same thing about World of Warcraft before it was released too. You try to appear like you know what you are talking about in your post, but you have actually provided absolutely no actual reasons why GW2 won't be the game changer a lot of people are saying it will be.

 

Your "facts" above were effortlessly taken care of in my replies above. Nice try.

[Taurusaud]

There is room for both games.

 

Why do people want the genre to be so homogenous? You saw what happened to WoW when it had no competition for years... it stagnated and look at the mess it is today.

 

Competition breeds innovation, which only means our experience as players will get better. So stop being so shortsighted. You think the world would be better with just one game? Variety is a good thing, and fortunately there will always be new games out there and you will eventually move onto them, just like you moved on to this game from whatever last one you were playing.

[Shingara]

It's a perfectly legitimate, albeit not very fun way to play the game. If someone wants to spend their time grinding out low level events and dungeons, that's their prerogative. The player in your example is not gaming anything or doing anything counter to the rules of the game. His level is scaled down, so he will perform like a well-geared lowbie.

 

So what?

 

I guess I just don't understand your point...

 

I shall try todo them better, point A, buy for cash a karma buff, B, do shortest dynamic events, C, buy best gear, D the end. Whats the point of leaving an area.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Shingara

[Valkirus]

I'm not subscribed, but my account is active thanks to BioWare's (EA's?) funny math.

 

However, I don't know what having a subscription has to do with having an opinion. I've invested the last 11 months toward playing this game (I started playing as a general tester in August)--four of which I paid for the pleasure (or displeasure?).

 

I unsubscribed a month ago, but was gifted a free month which runs out today, I believe. I waited until I was absolutely sure that my playstyle was not a priority or a foreseeable priority for this team before I made the decisio to move onto other things. I'm leaving behind characters I've developed for months, great friends, and a guild that felt like home.

 

Given all of this, I don't know why having a subscription--or not having one--automatically entitles someone to talk about the game or automatically barres them from doing so, in the case of the latter.

 

You're damn right that people like me, who have invested time and money in the game and want it to succeed will have something to say. You like it, that's great. Good for you. But don't disparage me because I don't.

 

You have had some real solid debates on the state of TOR Dezzi. Should this be your last day to post, I wish you the best in your MMO play and it has been good to see someone here post unbias opinions on the game. My sub runs out next month ( not counting the 30 day free time )..so I am not far behind you.

[Varteras]

Guild Wars 2 won't be the game changer people think it will be. This is a post-WoW landscape where people have already seen just about everything being offered by current and near future MMOs. Whatever success any MMO still using the same models in a different wrapper has will be sizzled out in less than a year. I've seen many posts and an increasing number of blogs talking about the future of MMOs and what many people are really wanting at this point.

 

These theme park MMOs which have segregated much of their content and have been tossing in pseudo-dynamic events to try to make the worlds feel alive while still stringing people along a particular path are probably going to become a very niche market in about 10 years. Games like World of Warcraft, Rift, The Old Republic, and Guild Wars 2 will be the kind of games played because the players either enjoy the universe that they come from or because there will still be people who enjoy what I can really only describe as restricted MMO gameplay but they will no longer be the gold standard of MMO design.

 

I was not originally a fan of big open-world, sandbox MMOs mostly because I felt that they were ahead of their time and not in a way that worked when they were first introduced. Considering the way I've been feeling about MMOs lately, what I find myself wanting, and what I've been hearing from other people it almost seems like that which I didn't originally care for is now what I'm wanting in an MMO more than anything. Nothing that any of these MMOs provide for me now or may provide for me in the near future is anything that will satisfy me for very long and I suspect that many feel the same. Unfortunately right now the tech just isn't there to create the true second virtual life that people such as myself are yearning for now.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Varteras

[Dezzi]

I shall try todo them better, point A, buy for cash a karma buff, B, do shortest dynamic events, C, buy best gear, D the end. Whats the point of leaving an area.

 

Again, if this is your point, so what? If that's how someone wants to play, the game provides them the opportunity to do so. The fact of the matter is that each individual event awards so little karma that grinding them would be, in a word, stupid. To each his own, I guess.

 

What's the point of leaving an area? Questing, exploration, lore discovery, and progression.

You have had some real solid debates on the state of TOR Dezzi. Should this be your last day to post, I wish you the best in your MMO play and it has been good to see someone here post unbias opinions on the game. My sub runs out next month ( not counting the 30 day free time )..so I am not far behind you.

Much appreciated. All the best to you as well.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Dezzi

[Shingara]

Again, if this is your point, so what? If that's how someone wants to play, the game provides them the opportunity to do so. The fact of the matter is that each individual event awards so little karma that grinding them would be, in a word, stupid. To each his own, I guess..

 

What's the point of leaving an area? Questing, exploration, lore discovery, and progression.

 

At endgame my dear boy, endgame, once at endgame you would assume you had explored and done the quests. And if everything scales upto you then you have to assume so will karma. This is what we are talkling about not what you do whilst leveling.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Shingara

[Dantalist]

I can't see myself playing GW2 at all. I played GW1 for awhile and found the depth of the actual game completely lacking. It almost felt like an action rpg more than an mmorpg to me which I despise. The funny thing is, sci-fi rpgs have always seemed to have more depth to the game to me. I guess that's why my favorite game is still eve online (talk about depth).

 

I started out on MUDs back in the day and actually find every mmorpg ever made so lacking in depth. I'm still waiting for someone to make a an mmorpg that has the depth of an old school MUD. When something like that comes out I might give a gamespy article like that some credibility.

 

For now, that story looks to me to be someone wanting GW2 to be revolutionary and only focusing on what might make that happen, rather than truly looking at it objectively.

[belizar]

I agreed with this sentence: "Once you leave the vivid cutscenes, most of SWTOR's galaxy is a pretty lifeless place" It's true, in swtor is all static, there isn't changement, npcs attack only after your first attack, it's all too static in swtor and that's a very negative aspect of this game.

Regarding the PvP aspect we can't say anything because SWTOR is a PvE game and GW2 is a PvP game.

 

erm gw2 a pvp game so all them events crafting, gathering,puzzles and story dungeons and advance dungeons are what fluff ?

[Avicii]

While I liked GW2 there are a few people in here who are fan boys and think GW2 is the end all be all and there are people that think that of SWTOR but be realistic GW2 is in Beta no one has gotten to 80. You "think" that because of level scaling it will keep people interested as well as the dynamic events. I am not so sure. I loved them in Rift others got bored of them (yes they arent the same but not to far off).

 

This game had balance issues, GW2 does have and will have balance issues, people complain about 3 then 4 PvP maps. GW2 has 2 currently but it does have competitive PvP which will keep some people hooked. And the wPvP. It is impossible to say how GW2 is gonna go. It is not the next evolution that it might be a step in the right direction but claiming it is the next evolution is a heavily fan boyish anyway you cut it. Try to be objective, I know its hard cause you are jizzing over the game but stating the same thing over and over again that is your opinion doesnt make it fact.

 

Believe me I have had it with SWTOR and I like GW2 a lot. However a little reality here would be nice.