Is there any way to be real tank?

[DenariusJay]

As in... survive more then 5 seconds against a Marauder and pyrotech? I don't have full uber leet gear yet (working on a set of BM gear) but I run full recruit armor with all the shield spec and as much defense as I can get, and I still get rocked in about 3 or 4 seconds from a Pyro or marauder.

 

I'm just curious if a build & gear setup exist where all you do is pure tanking, im not interested in damage tbh, I just wanna run a warzone and be damn near unkillable and be a real tank. Is it possible or is DPS king in this game?

[Pistols]

Doesn't really matter what you run, full or near full recruit gear, you are going to get wrecked with peeps who are in full modded WH gear due to massive expertise/other stats differences. The armor system is beyond stupid, and sadly we don't have any developers who PvP who understand this lack of forsight at all. So in short, have fun getting pumbled for a long time, until you finish up your BM gear, in which case you will just be slightly less squishier until you do another long grind for WH pieces.

 

Yes, the PvP Devs are atrocious, we know.

[Philosomanic]

As in... survive more then 5 seconds against a Marauder and pyrotech? I don't have full uber leet gear yet (working on a set of BM gear) but I run full recruit armor with all the shield spec and as much defense as I can get, and I still get rocked in about 3 or 4 seconds from a Pyro or marauder.

 

I'm just curious if a build & gear setup exist where all you do is pure tanking, im not interested in damage tbh, I just wanna run a warzone and be damn near unkillable and be a real tank. Is it possible or is DPS king in this game?

 

Once you hit full BM, you'll be able to survive for quite a while against Marauders. However, Pyro Powertechs will always melt you given even remotely equivalent gear. They have tons of elemental and armor-penetrating damage, so they're really good at melting tanks.

[HeavensTerror]

The only problem I have is Pyro/AS. They melt through you so fast it's not even funny...

 

[DenariusJay]

Bummer, so basically theres no "real" tanking build then for PvP? It's just a giant DPS fest. Oh well, I suppose I can do the assault build and work on DPS. I was hoping to be a good tanker, throwing guard on peeps and making them survive for awhile, but as it stands now I just can't survive for anything. I melt very fast.

[Stonedsoul]

Reading comprehension defective. Intelligence insufficiant. Unit lost...

 

What they were trying to tell you is: You can go tank if you want (altho SS is being complained about a lot too, but thats another problem), but gear will make a bigger difference then spec.

[Philosomanic]

Bummer, so basically theres no "real" tanking build then for PvP? It's just a giant DPS fest. Oh well, I suppose I can do the assault build and work on DPS. I was hoping to be a good tanker, throwing guard on peeps and making them survive for awhile, but as it stands now I just can't survive for anything. I melt very fast.

 

You CAN. You just need better gear. If you're in recruit now, you'll have a good 5k more health and take 1/3 less damage by the time you hit BM with a little war hero and maybe an augment or two thrown in. This means that you'll survive much, much longer. A good healer from my guild and I can hold off three or four people for quite a long time. You just need to gear up more so you're not so squishy. Stack all the expertise you can, that makes the biggest difference.

[paul_preib]

As in... survive more then 5 seconds against a Marauder and pyrotech? I don't have full uber leet gear yet (working on a set of BM gear) but I run full recruit armor with all the shield spec and as much defense as I can get, and I still get rocked in about 3 or 4 seconds from a Pyro or marauder.

 

I'm just curious if a build & gear setup exist where all you do is pure tanking, im not interested in damage tbh, I just wanna run a warzone and be damn near unkillable and be a real tank. Is it possible or is DPS king in this game?

 

"shield spec with as much defense as I can" -- One issue with this is that tank gear does not translate well to pvp, yes I realize there is an actual tank set for each of the three classes but defense, shield, etc. is circumvented by far too many attacks to be worthwhile.

 

Speccing for survivability at the early gearing stage is also not playing in your favor -- By and large it is easier to try and fade to the background as dps, then step into a more forefront roll once you are a bit more geared (think in terms of PVE-- if the tank is undergeared there's going to be a problem, if one of the dps is undergeared usually you can make it work even if you polish said boss off a few seconds into an enrage).

[harenmacar]

you really need to look at your spec, I run 31 sheild and have a ball going against maruaders. Now it will be 50/50 on if i win or not but you have to know what to look for.

 

If they pop their buffs remember you can do a few things.

1. Neural Surge, great short stun that doesnt kill ya in the long run.

2. Cryo Grenade another stun that you should use

3. Shield/Absorb Relic (this really boosts you)

4. Sheild/HoT/Rakata Stim(use the rakata in wz because of the health boost increases your ticks from your HOT)

If you use those in that order you can slow down your enemy enough to survive and get a party member or two to help you out.

 

I can easily survive against marauders long enough for reinforcements or to hold 1v1 and it be a close match. They are not OP, practice your class and start seeing what your doing wrong.

[Zekoisop]

As a tank u can't really one on one anyone. Your job is to guard , disrupt , and stall. If ur in recruit ur still gonna get melted. But it's still better being a recruit tank than recruit dPs. As dps ur

Damage is crap and ur suvivability is poor until way better gear. Dps VGs and PTs will always melt a tank but higher tier tank gear will make a difference still. Just throw all ur stuns at them and stall until someone comes to help deal with them. It's better still that they focus u instead of a healer or good dps.

[Zekoisop]

As a tank u can't really one on one anyone. Your job is to guard , disrupt , and stall. If ur in recruit ur still gonna get melted. But it's still better being a recruit tank than recruit dPs. As dps ur

Damage is crap and ur suvivability is poor until way better gear. Dps VGs and PTs will always melt a tank but higher tier tank gear will make a difference still. Just throw all ur stuns at them and stall until someone comes to help deal with them. It's better still that they focus u instead of a healer or good dps.

[Philosomanic]

As a tank u can't really one on one anyone.

 

Not true. You can win 1v1s pretty easily against certain classes. SWTOR has a rock-paper-scissors for PvP. Tech/Force (armor-penetrating) DPS beats Tank. Tank beats weapon damage DPS. Weapon DPS beats Tech/Force DPS.

 

So yes, given equal skill and gear, a PT/VG DPS will melt you as a tank. They have lots of attacks that ignore your shields and defense, deal internal/elemental damage, and/or penetrate armor. They're pretty clearly designed to be able to beat tanks.

 

However, going up against a Sniper, Marauder, or Juggernaut, you have a large upper hand. The majority of their attacks and all of their high-damage burst attacks can be shielded and defended. This means that your shields and defense rate cripple their DPS, and smoke grenade really hurts them. You still have enough damage as a Shield Vanguard that, given equal skill and gear, you should be able to beat weapon-heavy classes in a 1v1.

 

 

However, this really isn't all that relevant anyways. A Tanks should rarely (if ever) find themselves in a 1v1. Our job is to protect our team, not to go gallivanting around like a DPS player.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Philosomanic

[Zekoisop]

I shouldve said u can't beat anyone 1v1 but u can Definatly hang. The damage now is just too poor. I play a dps vanguard and it's like playing two acs within an ac.

[solistus]

Three things:

 

1. You're undergeared. As others have pointed out, tanking is always gear dependent, so you won't feel very tanky until you're closer to average PvP gear.

 

2. Tanking in PvP is largely about guards and taunts. It's not just about being able to take lots of hits. You can still be useful as a 'squishy' tank by guarding healers and taunting deepsers. Somewhat counter-intuitively, the best way to use taunts is usually to make sure they *can't* attack you, so it can act as a huge dps debuff instead of a taunt.

 

3. The fact that some damage types melt you doesn't mean you can't be a tank. It means that there are specs in the game that are good at countering tanks. High HP and guard/taunt are good against any spec, but shields and armor are only good against certain damage types. So, you're nearly immortal against some specs, but *almost* as squishy as other players against dedicated tank killing specs.

 

Itemization in PvP is kinda stupid given how dramatically your expertise scales moving up the tiers (if it was a smaller range from bottom to top, it wouldn't be such a problem, but as it stands a lot of matches are over before they start due to one side being way better geared), but if and when you get an even match in terms of gear, tanking specs do just fine in PvP. I actually think the ways they adapt tanking skills and builds to PvP is one of the most well-designed and balanced parts of SWTOR.

[TheRampage]

I must say that at current state I feel like complete waste as tank in PVP Every class kills me fast (too fast IMHO if I'm tank who should take a lot of beating, not just PT who melt us vanguards). Hell, marauder will guard turret longer then me

[NoaFlux]

I must say that at current state I feel like complete waste as tank in PVP Every class kills me fast (too fast IMHO if I'm tank who should take a lot of beating, not just PT who melt us vanguards). Hell, marauder will guard turret longer then me

 

It's tough. I had a great 2 weaks finishing in the top 2 or 3 all week than today I did horrible...worst than you can imagine.

 

Point is it's tough for tanks. It's always been like this. One think I hate is the gear...its really complicated...it knocks down your accuracy at higher levels...

 

My advice is this;

 

1. AOE fest. This will help you a ton. Don't use AOE's unless at least three are close, 5 is better. Don't get used to using AOE's to the point that you use them on one or two opponents...it can happen...especially since some AOES are good for stopping just one from getting a turret (Force in Balance). I checked my combat log, and as long as you have at least 3 people these always do the most damage.

 

2. Stand by your healer while protecting, on the sideline's and communicate with one another. I have won so many matches doing this...and either me or the healer get first place..the other gets second.

 

3.People will hate your guts. I am a Shadow Tank. People hate me to the point that I am constant target. This is where the inconsistency comes in. I stand out, people hate my stuns and force pulls...they also hate force wave...they will stalk you...they also see you going for the nodes all the time since you can stealth. try to lay low.

Edited August 19, 2012 by NoaFlux