Liquidacid Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) I actually find it amusing as well. Why can't we all just get along? because getting along isn't as much fun? Edited June 21, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 because getting along isn't as much fun? So true. Where would the world be if people set aside ther differences? More importantly where would these forums be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) So true. Where would the world be if people set aside ther differences? More importantly where would these forums be? seriously how interesting would these forums be if everyone just agreed with each other? Edited June 21, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 because getting along isn't as much fun? That we can agree on... ohwait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirdthestrill Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I read them. And no it isn't. Lightsaber resistant armor is in. For the moment. Big difference between resistant and proof. No one ever said it was Lightsaber PROOF. It's only seen directing glancing slices, never a full on stab for the kill. Same as cortosis. Or Phrik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirdthestrill Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 That we can agree on... ohwait! Lol. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Which brings us back to the main problem here, in my mind: If you came to the EU through Traviss' work -- and/or you enjoy Traviss' spin on SW more than other authors' -- then you will naturally take her side in any debate about the appropriateness of the stories she told, because you've already bought into her characterizations. You are, in essence, assuming your own conclusion: relying on evidence (consciously or not) from Traviss herself to justify her decisions. But what's important here is the contrast between Traviss' treatment of various characters and everyone else's treatment of those same characters. Everyone is certainly entitled to prefer Traviss' interpretation of the SW universe; hell, for awhile, I think LucasArts very much enjoyed the fact that she appealed to a different flavor of fan. Still, whether you like Traviss or not, it seems obvious to me that she abused established canon. That she may have done so inadvertently isn't important, and in fact her prideful ignorance of the source material is itself a bit of an affront. If I started a new job by proudly refusing to learn anything about the company that hired me, I probably wouldn't last very long. As it turned out, Traviss didn't last very long either, but she still probably lasted longer than she should have. I think you point out an important aspect of this debate. Traviss was not the original and her ideas are not the definitive. Her concepts, characterizations, rationalizations all involve her implanting her ideology into a universe she entered knowing nothing about with an agenda to force her ways into canon and make them THE reality of the universe because she could not accept what G-canon and previous C-canon materials already established as the facts. Her hubris, immaturity, and abuse of a creative license has done damage to the mythos that since her work others have had to adapt to her views or scrap their projects and more recently outright retcon them. If her works get retcon'ed to oblivion, I will not complain. Were there good things that came from Traviss's work? Of course, such as the mandalorian language even SWTOR adopts into its lore. Do these things overshadow the bad? No, they are barely a pebble in comparison to the mountain she created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 seriously how interesting would these forums be if everyone just agreed with each other? I spend like 3 hours on the forums reading all of the arguments:D What would I do if the forums didn't have thsi tension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I spend like 3 hours on the forums reading all of the arguments:D What would I do if the forums didn't have thsi tension? if everyone here started agreeing with each other I'd lie and make **** up just to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 if everyone here started agreeing with each other I'd lie and make **** up just to disagree lol nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) let's also not forget that in established lore said warrior culture has battled against the jedi many many times... it's not like they are new to the fighting jedi game And they got absolutely whipped every single time they ever went up against the Jedi. In fact, Jango Fett killed more jedi in that one battle (that bare-handed killing crap) than the entire other compliment of Mandalorians present combined. The Mandalorians as a culture had a big fat goose egg (and still do, really) as far as fighting Jedi and Sith went, until Karen Traviss came along with her "cannot sense intentions in the Force" fighting style, which the Jedi had already faced in the Vong (couldn't sense the Vong at all, in fact, which is even worse) and made it so that Jaina's "trainer" stomped her into the ground. Because, you know, Lightsaber resistant armor and not being able to sense her opponent's intentions in the Force were so new to Jaina "Sword of the Jedi" Solo. I can't believe people are actually still trying to excuse Traviss' total (and seemingly gleeful) curb stomping of established Canon. Edited June 21, 2012 by Aximand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 And they got absolutely whipped every single time they ever went up against the Jedi. In fact, Jango Fett killed more jedi in that one battle (that bare-handed killing crap) than the entire other compliment of Mandalorians present combined. The Mandalorians as a culture had a big fat goose egg (and still do, really) as far as fighting Jedi and Sith went, until Karen Traviss came along with her "cannot sense intentions in the Force" fighting style, which the Jedi had already faced in the Vong (couldn't sense the Vong at all, in fact, which is even worse) and made it so that Jaina's "trainer" stomped her into the ground. Because, you know, Lightsaber resistant armor and not being able to sense her opponent's intentions in the Force were so new to Jaina "Sword of the Jedi" Solo. I can't believe people are actually still trying to excuse Traviss' total (and seemingly gleeful) curb stomping of established Canon. *fistbump* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 *fistbump* *accepts* Don't even get me started on Traviss originally saying that the Mandalorians, a culture of warriors, mercenaries and soldiers didn't have a way to express time because they thought it was unneeded. My. GOD. This is a woman that served in the military (granted, as a journalist) and she's trying to tell us that a warrior culture didn't have a way to express TIME?! "When are we supposed to flank them again?" "Soon, don't worry." "Yes, but WHEN exactly, are we supposed to attack?" "...?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 *accepts* Don't even get me started on Traviss originally saying that the Mandalorians, a culture of warriors, mercenaries and soldiers didn't have a way to express time because they thought it was unneeded. My. GOD. This is a woman that served in the military (granted, as a journalist) and she's trying to tell us that a warrior culture didn't have a way to express TIME?! "When are we supposed to flank them again?" "Soon, don't worry." "Yes, but WHEN exactly, are we supposed to attack?" "...?" Soontm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Soontm Yea really. The funny part is, I would have been perfectly fine with her as an author if she just stuck to writing Mandalorians, wasn't allowed to write Force Users (Given her painfully obvious hate for them) and if she didn't try to inject political narrative into pretty much all of her dialogue. If she'd owned up, and just admitted that three million clones was a ridiculously small number for a galactic military (Over SIXTY MILLION people died in World War II alone), and didn't try to pass off the Clone Wars as a "small brush fire war", then she never would have compared people that disagreed with her to the Taliban (because you know, everyone that has an opinion is a mass murdering psychopath). Gah, I'm just so happy that she's writing for Gears of War and Halo now, the lore for those series can't get any worse anyway. Edited June 21, 2012 by Aximand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Yea really. The funny part is, I would have been perfectly fine with her as an author if she just stuck to writing Mandalorians, wasn't allowed to write Force Users (Given her painfully obvious hate for them) and if she didn't try to inject political narrative into pretty much all of her dialogue. If she'd owned up, and just admitted that three million clones was a ridiculously small number for a galactic military (Over SIXTY MILLION people died in World War II alone), and didn't try to pass off the Clone Wars as a "small brush fire war", then she never would have compared people that disagreed with her to the Taliban (because you know, everyone that has an opinion is a mass murdering psychopath). Gah, I'm just so happy that she's writing for Gears of War and Halo now, the lore for those series can't get any worse anyway. Oh, you'd be surprised what damage she could do to Halo especially. I'm with you on Gears, though. That one is nothing but an old '80s sci-fi action movie, but still a lot of fun. And Bender is Marcus Fenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradTheImpaler Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 And they got absolutely whipped every single time they ever went up against the Jedi. In fact, Jango Fett killed more jedi in that one battle (that bare-handed killing crap) than the entire other compliment of Mandalorians present combined. The Mandalorians as a culture had a big fat goose egg (and still do, really) as far as fighting Jedi and Sith went, until Karen Traviss came along with her "cannot sense intentions in the Force" fighting style, which the Jedi had already faced in the Vong (couldn't sense the Vong at all, in fact, which is even worse) and made it so that Jaina's "trainer" stomped her into the ground. Because, you know, Lightsaber resistant armor and not being able to sense her opponent's intentions in the Force were so new to Jaina "Sword of the Jedi" Solo. I can't believe people are actually still trying to excuse Traviss' total (and seemingly gleeful) curb stomping of established Canon. I agree with about 98% of this---but the Neo-Crusaders in the Mandalorian wars were no pushovers. They haven't won a full war against the Jedi, but in one they won a number of battles, and managed to inflict a lot of casualties, even after the Revanchists joined in the war. It took using the mass shadow generator at Malachor V, and killing many Jedi along with the Mandalorians in the process, and Revan defeating Mandalore in single combat, to finally end that war, and even five years after this they were strong enough to help the Exile on Dxun and on the Ravager. The Jedi got pretty well whipped too before the war was over. Of course, that's Old Republic Mandalorians, not Traviss Mandalorians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirdthestrill Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 *accepts* Don't even get me started on Traviss originally saying that the Mandalorians, a culture of warriors, mercenaries and soldiers didn't have a way to express time because they thought it was unneeded. My. GOD. This is a woman that served in the military (granted, as a journalist) and she's trying to tell us that a warrior culture didn't have a way to express TIME?! "When are we supposed to flank them again?" "Soon, don't worry." "Yes, but WHEN exactly, are we supposed to attack?" "...?" In which book do you see this? I never remember anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirdthestrill Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 and even five years after this they were strong enough to help the Exile on Dxun and on the Ravager. The Ravager was awesome. Just Sith Troopers strutting around like they own the place...then Mandalore arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Oh, you'd be surprised what damage she could do to Halo especially. I'm with you on Gears, though. That one is nothing but an old '80s sci-fi action movie, but still a lot of fun. And Bender is Marcus Fenix. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the Halo thing, I always thought that the SPARTAN project was a blatant and thinly disguised rip-off of Warhammer 40K's Space Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 In which book do you see this? I never remember anything like that. It was a dramatization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassusVerda Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Gah, I'm just so happy that she's writing for Gears of War and Halo now, the lore for those series can't get any worse anyway. I'm not...... : ( <-Big Halo Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm not...... : ( <-Big Halo Fan Well, Halo sucks and SPARTANs are a bunch of sissies, so there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 We'll just have to agree to disagree on the Halo thing, I always thought that the SPARTAN project was a blatant and thinly disguised rip-off of Warhammer 40K's Space Marines. Which in turn was a blatant and thinly disguised rip-off of Captain America and the Super Soldier Project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Which in turn was a blatant and thinly disguised rip-off of Captain America and the Super Soldier Project. I'm sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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