Infinite_Burnout Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) I'm a bit confused on what stance the game wants me to take on the Killiks. When saving a daughter from the Killik Hive Mind, it's considered a DarkSide choice. But when saying they are less than sentient or posing the idea they are dangerous, it is a dark side choice. But, when i'm playing an Imperial Agent And the time comes to punish my contact's family, enslaving the nest is considered a Dark Side Choice. So, are the Killiks, a race of hive-minded insects who kidnap people, considered evil or not? Edited June 16, 2012 by Infinite_Burnout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crezelle Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) haha this one gets me too, considering i'm...er my femagent is all over vector like her in-laws are all over an unatended picnic spread. his hive seemed clean and tidyish, but other nests are littered with muck and even human bones... they take over castles, eat people they don't join, ect ect..... yet from what i've heard from some of his convos, it seems joiners are much more in tune with the natural order of the force, on a primitive, non sith, non jedi way, like, a raw understanding of it. so who knows. i'd really love to ask him about these things. Edited June 16, 2012 by Crezelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdyjuice Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 they are bugs. I hate bugs. just squish em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainApop Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Okay for the record you can't go all binary and claim killiks are evil or good. They are just Killiks. Any opinion on their good or evil'ness is going to be very subjective. Letting a whole family be killed is a dark side choice. Forcing someone to leave a hive against their will is also a darkside choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotcat Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I love bugs, ngl. When I was little and my teachers asked the class what we wanted to be when we grew up, and all the other little girls said "ballerina" or "princess" or some other dumb crap, I said "entomologist". So I totally dig the Killiks. I'd let them Join me, sounds fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberduh Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I'm a bit confused on how the game wants me to view humans. Many of the humans I encounter in the game are shortsighted, selfish, or downright cruel. They've dominated the galaxy for thousands of years and they're on, like, their fourth galactic war. Yet, when I save one from death it's almost always a light-side choice. What gives, Bioware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crezelle Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I'm a bit confused on how the game wants me to view humans. Many of the humans I encounter in the game are shortsighted, selfish, or downright cruel. They've dominated the galaxy for thousands of years and they're on, like, their fourth galactic war. Yet, when I save one from death it's almost always a light-side choice. What gives, Bioware? touche and yeah..bugs don't irk me ether...i used to raise mealworms, superworms, waxworms, crickets, dubia and hissing cockroaches for lizards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pubsam Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 It's a nuanced, gray sort of issue that doesn't fall on strict LS/DS lines. Personally, I think taking over someone else's consciousness falls into the 'bad' category. And the utter bliss of the Joiners seems like classic creepy cultist behavior. But unlike with cult victims, not sure there's any way to reform a Joiner that's been assimilated so... just letting them be would be the most humane thing. But the whole mess is a damn shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudCastle Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I think like a lot of things in this game, whether you view something as "light" or "dark" all depends on which side of the fence you are on. The sith are assumed to be the evil ones, but the things the jedi do can be pretty darn creepy in their own way. The game often leaves grey areas and I like that. I think the Killiks are technically neutral. They are often portrayed as enemies by both factions though because they are so very very alien in their thinking and in the looks department. One of our highest values is individuality and the Killiks don't value that at all, instead they value community. The thought of being Joined is really horrific to most of us - I mean we are talking about a major loss of free will! I don't think the Killiks are sitting around Mwhahahaha-ing like sith when they Join someone though. I'm willing to bet that they either are indifferent to the whole thing, or that they even view themselves as being downright generous. I also think that like every race there are "good" nests and "bad" nests - some are peaceful, some are violent, etc. I think the game purposefully gives you seemingly conflicting info about this race because they aren't black and white. And of course if you play an agent, you see a very different and more in depth side of them altogether. They don't attach emotional meaning to things like we do, but they also see the world in a really strange and fascinating way. I think they are way more in-tune with the natural order of things than most races are. "Rescuing" that noble's daughter from the Killiks is dark side because it only hurts all the parties involved. She can't be unJoined, her family will probably never accept her, she would rather stay with the nest now, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 They're human sized ants that sometimes drop some rather epic loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luhrsen Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Actually on the Republic side you have the opportunity to unjoin a soldier at the request of a jedi and it's considered a Light choice. And you are praised for releasing him from the living nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KtheN Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 yeah i remember that quest... overall however i think that those who are joined really just want to stay joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakSomtaaw Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I'm a bit confused on what stance the game wants me to take on the Killiks. When saving a daughter from the Killik Hive Mind, it's considered a DarkSide choice. But when saying they are less than sentient or posing the idea they are dangerous, it is a dark side choice. But, when i'm playing an Imperial Agent And the time comes to punish my contact's family, enslaving the nest is considered a Dark Side Choice. So, are the Killiks, a race of hive-minded insects who kidnap people, considered evil or not? Reason why the daughter is the darkside choice is because you're ripping them away from a place they want to stay against their will(This is beside the forced Joining and ethics invovled in that.) Saying they are less than sentient is also dark side because the killiks are clearly not. For your spoiler well... its slavery. Now for me... well.... I'd gladly take those dark side points. BURN EM. BURN IT ALL! NONE MAY LIVE! ALL MUST TURN TO ASHES! BURN THE PLANET TO THE GROUND! Same goes for colicoids. Bloody bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Actually on the Republic side you have the opportunity to unjoin a soldier at the request of a jedi and it's considered a Light choice. And you are praised for releasing him from the living nightmare. No that person isn't joined yet. He is in the middle of being joined, but he hasn't become a full joiner yet. Additionally it isn't a "light" choice, it is just a side quest with no LS/DS points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Reason why the daughter is the darkside choice is because you're ripping them away from a place they want to stay against their will(This is beside the forced Joining and ethics invovled in that.) Saying they are less than sentient is also dark side because the killiks are clearly not. For your spoiler well... its slavery. Now for me... well.... I'd gladly take those dark side points. BURN EM. BURN IT ALL! NONE MAY LIVE! ALL MUST TURN TO ASHES! BURN THE PLANET TO THE GROUND! Same goes for colicoids. Bloody bugs. I agree with this person during that quest on alderaan I gladly took those dark side points and told the thule lord that after the battle he should kill the killiks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I hate those quests for empire. How can we know the daughter is in her right mind when we speak to her, and that she isn't being influenced by bugs? She could have hostage syndrome, and is feeling sympathetic to her captors for all we know. To assume she is herself, and truly wants to stay is stupid. It's a horrible choice for light side to leave her there. It would be better to take her home, break her connection with the hive mind, and then if she still wants to go back after a time, then let her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I hate those quests for empire. How can we know the daughter is in her right mind when we speak to her, and that she isn't being influenced by bugs? She could have hostage syndrome, and is feeling sympathetic to her captors for all we know. To assume she is herself, and truly wants to stay is stupid. It's a horrible choice for light side to leave her there. It would be better to take her home, break her connection with the hive mind, and then if she still wants to go back after a time, then let her. I think that the whole point is that you don't know and can't know. The same goes for Vector. (Although less so, as he can pull back a little and still seems to want to stay a Joiner.) But really, you don't know. Is the person a Joiner only because they've been dosed with pheromones (and are essentially an addict), or are they truly happier this way? The same, though, could be said for most loyalties in game, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperiumAlpha Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all! The only good bug is a dead bug. Would you like to know more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I hate those quests for empire. How can we know the daughter is in her right mind when we speak to her, and that she isn't being influenced by bugs? She could have hostage syndrome, and is feeling sympathetic to her captors for all we know. To assume she is herself, and truly wants to stay is stupid. It's a horrible choice for light side to leave her there. It would be better to take her home, break her connection with the hive mind, and then if she still wants to go back after a time, then let her. I think the point is supposed to be that whether she is in her right mind or not, this is who she is now. Within the context of the quest, I don't believe it is supposed to be possible to break her connection as her joining process is too far along. The LS/DS choice is built upon the assumption that these are your options: -Leave her to the hive where she will experience something akin to bliss -Take her away from the hive so that she will be in pain for the rest of her life because of her isolation from the hive Those are what your options are supposed to be. *shrug* It makes sense to me. I mean it isn't like there is a miracle cure for joiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanana Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 LS/DS points are often stupid. Brainwashed victim getting forcibly extracted so she can be deprogrammed and returned to her family? Apparently dark side. Killing a man instead of letting him be tortured and later executed? Apparently dark side too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veniras Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The Killiks are neutral in sense. But for the affected ppl it's very much a LS/DS The daughter has joined. She can never be un-joined, much to the despair of herself and her family if you bring her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 the killiks remind me of the borg from star trek they enslave races into their hive mind claiming its a better life yet doing so they loose a part of their mind. but i beleive the killiks wernt always agressive for a long time they coexsisted with the humans of Alderan but the violance of the war has affected the hive minds of some causing them to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crezelle Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 the killiks remind me of the borg from star trek they enslave races into their hive mind claiming its a better life yet doing so they loose a part of their mind. but i beleive the killiks wernt always agressive for a long time they coexsisted with the humans of Alderan but the violance of the war has affected the hive minds of some causing them to fight. then theres always the " we were here first, YOU are the invasive pest" argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad_Dracul_ Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Exterminate them from the face of the galaxy. This cosmic plague should be primary target for an Empire instead of Jedi Order. Their reminds me Zergs, Tyranids, Arachnids...even Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Perhaps worse, cause they seems 'peaceful' and calm, what is more treacherous. Oh, and there is one actual problem about it: btw. There is one sidequest on Alderaan, when I could save noble girl hijacked by Killiks and already poisoned. Why bring her to her dad is Dark Side option? I would understand, if she join them voluntarly like Vector Hyllus did, but she were hijacked, as well as other people what you must save in this quest. And in Imperial Agent story, you can give House Cortess, people included, to Killiks, but this is Dark Side option too. What I think is very Dark option, I agree. But I dont see logic there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I think the Killiks are technically neutral. They are often portrayed as enemies by both factions though because they are so very very alien in their thinking and in the looks department. One of our highest values is individuality and the Killiks don't value that at all, instead they value community. The thought of being Joined is really horrific to most of us - I mean we are talking about a major loss of free will! I don't think the Killiks are sitting around Mwhahahaha-ing like sith when they Join someone though. I'm willing to bet that they either are indifferent to the whole thing, or that they even view themselves as being downright generous. I also think that like every race there are "good" nests and "bad" nests - some are peaceful, some are violent, etc. ... I think the game purposefully gives you seemingly conflicting info about this race because they aren't black and white. And of course if you play an agent, you see a very different and more in depth side of them altogether. They don't attach emotional meaning to things like we do, but they also see the world in a really strange and fascinating way. I think they are way more in-tune with the natural order of things than most races are. This, mostly, I think. They are just completely alien. Not good or bad. Like sharks or lions, or something. I think if anything they think that they are doing people an honor by letting them become joiners - because who wouldn't want to be Killik if they could? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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