Balance or Telekinesis for endgame dps?

[FrostTrooper]

Just wondering what everyone's opinion was on this. I've tried both and each has its advantages and disadvantages. Just looking for more experienced, wise Sage advice to help me on my way.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Kumakichi]

I'm no expert but from what I've read it seems telekinesis is slightly better than balance. I pve'd just a little as balance at mid levels and it seems strong compared to other classes at the same levels. In pvp balance is nice dps and most importantly mobile. But I'd like to hear some posts from other more seasoned pve'ers as well.

[eventidephoenix]

for PvE or PvP?

 

Different advice for both.

 

PvE it's up to you. Personally some raids favour TK more, some raids favour Balance more. Simulations show almost negligible difference between all 3 types - Hybrid, TK or Balance. TK has a steeper learning curve, Hybrid and Balance have rotations that are so easy that you may or can get bored with.

 

PVP? I'd got the classic control spec.

Edited June 16, 2012 by eventidephoenix

[Ximix]

PvP or PvE?

 

PvP you really need to go Balance

PvE you can do either, but if you're also going to do PvP then I'd just stick with Balance to save yourself the respec costs.

[Ewgal]

For PvP we are talking balance or a hybrid. Hybrid dps/healer can work out quite well. For PvE TK/hybrid/balance all are viable in the Ops, I think.

[Skaol-dirtyd]

I find that the hybrid 0/20/21 works best at least for me.

[eventidephoenix]

I find that the hybrid 0/20/21 works best at least for me.

 

sadly this is true and its the only build that works well... Also worth noting that you cannot have too many (or in fact, more than one) 0/20/21 sage in a group... Too much utility = nothing accomplished

[Tripwirre]

Another thing you really have to take into account is your ability to monitor procs and act accordingly with your rotation. I leveled up with a TK heavy/Balance hybrid spec. I loved dropping double insta cast TK waves at mobs. I was loathe to leave it behind to raid, but tracking procs and boss mechanics, even for an experienced raider like myself, proved to be difficult. I did OK in my first raid, but I didn't pull my own weight like I needed to. There was just too much going on for me to really get into a rotation. So I followed advice from guild mates and swapped specs and it was a major difference.

 

If you have not raided before, or even if you have but you don't know the boss fights in the raids, my advice is Balance heavy hybrid spec where you only have to pay attention for the Presence of Mind proc. In many boss fights there is a lot of movement. TK spells have cast times that will often be interrupted by the need to move out of fire. Balance favors insta-cast spells, thus allowing you to move as needed and learn the fights. After that, if you find yourself doing fine, perhaps you can experiment a bit more with a TK build. Initially though, in raids at least, simplicity will increase your DPS as a whole.

[ZudetGambeous]

I play a full TK spec in PvE. I like it much better than Balance just because I almost never run out of force. However in PvP Balance or Hybrid is much better then TK.

[dkangl]

I play a full TK spec in PvE. I like it much better than Balance just because I almost never run out of force. However in PvP Balance or Hybrid is much better then TK.

 

Why is balance that much better? It seems TK has some nice CC effects that would work better then balance

[Bugattiboy]

I'm no expert PvPer, but from what I'm seeing is that Balance is better for people because it has more instant casts and is more mobile. While TK locks you down with cast times making you a lot less mobile and very prone to interrupts and focus fire.

[Daellia]

Why is balance that much better? It seems TK has some nice CC effects that would work better then balance

 

Balance is far more mobile due to the higher number of instacast effects (TK is very turrety), plus the 9 second cooldown root on Sever Force (and roots aren't on Resolve).

[Vir_Cotto]

I agree with all of the above posters. Balance is much better for PvP, with more insta casts & more mobility. I personally leveled as Telekenetic, as it favored my play style of standing still and casting. It is also generally agreed to do slightly more damage at endgame, as your top skill in your tree gives you your best ability, which is also auto crit.

[ChuangTzu]

I have tried both full balance and TK but I now go with a hybrid 0/16/25 which works for me. Is it the best spec in the game? Probably not but I find it keeps me more mobile while still able to do good aoe damage. Edited July 7, 2012 by ChuangTzu

[hatterson]

for PvE or PvP?

 

Different advice for both.

 

PvE it's up to you. Personally some raids favour TK more, some raids favour Balance more. Simulations show almost negligible difference between all 3 types - Hybrid, TK or Balance. TK has a steeper learning curve, Hybrid and Balance have rotations that are so easy that you may or can get bored with.

 

PVP? I'd got the classic control spec.

 

Actually on a Patchwerk style fight TK (Lightning for Sorcs) is at about 1850 DPS whereas 1/12/28 Hybrid and full Balance (Madness) are at about 1775.

 

Obviously the tradeoff is that Lightning requires more skill/learning curve and is extremely susceptible to movement.

[Sitherall]

I like the mobility of full Balance for my sage; instant casts are your friend in PvP IMO. I am also a terror guarding doors and turrets from getting taken with Force in Balance and other instant cast stuff. While TK might have a slight overall possible damage output benefit, Balance is so close to it, and provides mobility/survivability that i've decided to go with Balance, and it suits me.

[RanisTheSlayer]

Telekinetics is easier to play, however, someone who is good at balance will always outshine tk.

[Daellia]

Telekinetics is easier to play, however, someone who is good at balance will always outshine tk.

 

Er...completely backwards, in every respect. Telekinetics is significantly harder to play well in end-game PvE, due to increased rotational complexity, increased necessary awareness, and the increased necessary fight knowledge (to offset the increased movement vulnerability). However, a skilled TK will always beat a skilled Balance player, unless the fight significantly favors Balance. SimC is showing TK to be about 4% ahead of Balance on a sustained single-target Patchwerk fight.

[RanisTheSlayer]

Er...completely backwards, in every respect. Telekinetics is significantly harder to play well in end-game PvE, due to increased rotational complexity, increased necessary awareness, and the increased necessary fight knowledge (to offset the increased movement vulnerability). However, a skilled TK will always beat a skilled Balance player, unless the fight significantly favors Balance. SimC is showing TK to be about 4% ahead of Balance on a sustained single-target Patchwerk fight.

 

I really don't care what your program shows. Player skill will always be the determining factor. I'm the best dps sage on canderous ordo, only two other sages can compete and they are both balance sages because tk is garbage for pve. Balance requires a deep level of skill and precison most people could never hope to achieve or perfect. Besides, tk is laughably easy to play. Here's the best part about why you are incprrect: zero raid bosses are "sustained single target patchwerk" fights. None. That is why balance will always be better. And why your program is wrong.

[hatterson]

I really don't care what your program shows. Player skill will always be the determining factor. I'm the best dps sage on canderous ordo, only two other sages can compete and they are both balance sages because tk is garbage for pve. Balance requires a deep level of skill and precison most people could never hope to achieve or perfect. Besides, tk is laughably easy to play. Here's the best part about why you are incprrect: zero raid bosses are "sustained single target patchwerk" fights. None. That is why balance will always be better. And why your program is wrong.

 

I'm not even sure what you're arguing.

 

- It is a fact that Lightning/Telekinetics can provide higher DPS on a sustained patchwerk style fight.

- It is a fact that no fights in SWTOR are exactly Patchwerk style fights.

- It is a fact that with appropriate fight knowledge and player skill you can turn most fights into roughly similar equivalents by knowing *when* and *how* you have to move and planning accordingly

 

 

As far as TK/Lightning having a "laughably easy" rotation I just can't fathom how anyone can say that.

 

Hybrid/Balance can be reduced to "use everything on cooldown and spam Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw when you can't do anything else" When Lightning/TK is reduced to that you get much more performance loss.

[Aurojiin]

Balance requires a deep level of skill and precison most people could never hope to achieve or perfect.

Troll confirmed.

[Daellia]

Removing the pieces that deal with cooldown usage (which are all honestly roughly the same complexity), Madness has the following action list:

 

• affliction,if=!ticking
  
• death_field,if=force>80
  
• crushing_darkness,if=buff.wrath.react
  
• creeping_terror,if=!ticking
  
• force_lightning

 

Lightning has:

 

• affliction,if=!ticking
  
• thundering_blast,if=dot.affliction.remains>cast_time
  
• force_lightning,if=buff.lightning_barrage.react
  
• chain_lightning,if=buff.lightning_storm.react
  
• crushing_darkness
  
• sequence,name=pewpew:force_lightning:lightning_strike

 

Are you really going to try to maintain that the former, which uses 5 abilities and has only a single reaction conditional (that is up 99.99% of the time by the time its off cooldown), is more complex than the latter, which has 6 abilities, 2 reaction conditionals (both of which must be used within 10 seconds, but are lower priority than other spells), and a woven filler rotation?

 

I think I'm going to have to agree with Aurojiin here. Troll confirmed. Then again, any time I see the phrase "I don't care what your program says", I take it as a given that I'm dealing with someone who is either incompetent, trolling, or so astoundingly hubristic that I just have to shake my head in awe a bit.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Daellia

[KorrigTS]

Telekinetics is easier to play, however, someone who is good at balance will always outshine tk.

 

TK is definitely not easier to play:

 

TK has:

1 Dot - Weaken Mind

2 Stacking Buffs - Concentration & Tremors

2 Procs - Psychic Projection & Tidal Force

2 Short CD Attacks - Turbulence & Mind Crush

 

Balance has:

2 Dots - WM & SF

1 Proc - PoM

1 Short CD Attack - FIB