Advice vs Sith Assassin please

[Rodein]

Hi,

 

I am a relatively well geared Anni Mara with full BM and 4 WH items, I do well in most 1vs1 scenarios but I keep getting beaten badley by well geared Sith Assassin's. I would like to know if anyone has any tips that can help.

 

See combat log, which is a pretty good indication of my last few fights against decent Sith Assasins http://www.anjesoftware.com/?player=allPlayers&display=damageDone&file=6808&ability=all&encounter=210662

 

I start the fight leaping in, deadly saber, rupture, (beserk) Battering Assault, Annihilate, obfuscate, disrupt etc.. repeat cycle through in a force choke and intimidating roar, use defensive buffs etc... and this works in most 1vs1 but not against sith assasins in which i cant seem to get them below 75% health!

 

Looking at the combat logs, 2 attacks with Annihilate did 324 damage (what!?) i usually hit 3k each on that. Ravage x4 = 1484. Only my bleeds seemed to have any affect. Obfuscate makes no difference in reducing there attack power, saber ward and cloak of pain do very little if anything to negate there damage.

 

Any advice is appreciated

[Yescek]

Hi,

 

I am a relatively well geared Anni Mara with full BM and 4 WH items, I do well in most 1vs1 scenarios but I keep getting beaten badley by well geared Sith Assassin's. I would like to know if anyone has any tips that can help.

 

See combat log, which is a pretty good indication of my last few fights against decent Sith Assasins http://www.anjesoftware.com/?player=allPlayers&display=damageDone&file=6808&ability=all&encounter=210662

 

I start the fight leaping in, deadly saber, rupture, (beserk) Battering Assault, Annihilate, obfuscate, disrupt etc.. repeat cycle through in a force choke and intimidating roar, use defensive buffs etc... and this works in most 1vs1 but not against sith assasins in which i cant seem to get them below 75% health!

 

Looking at the combat logs, 2 attacks with Annihilate did 324 damage (what!?) i usually hit 3k each on that. Ravage x4 = 1484. Only my bleeds seemed to have any affect. Obfuscate makes no difference in reducing there attack power, saber ward and cloak of pain do very little if anything to negate there damage.

 

Any advice is appreciated

 

Until 1.3 there's nothing you can do. I'm Carnage so I have it worse. I can't even make the HP of a fully WH geared one move and I'm in 6-parts WH. Seriously. I don't have a log handy but ask anyone on Vornskr. Alien's not just nigh unkillable, unless you have all 8 people wailing on him he *IS* unkillable.

[xSalvatioN]

My advices would be:

- Obfuscate earlier and he'll hopefully blow his CDs

- Use relics!! Although you probably just forgot to write that you did

- Time your attacks! He obviously had defensive CDs up if your hardest hitting abilities (ravage, anni) hit below 2k in total.. AKA not the time to blow your offensive CDs

- Time your CC! When you see that your attacks hit low -> choke, IR or force camo (not CC i know, but it will give you time) that bastard so that his defensive CDs go out.

- Defensive CDs: Yes, you said you used them, but did you use them correctly? CoP -> SW at 70% -> UR at below 20%

- Medpacks + stims if you have them, if not then buy wz medpacks

- Force camo to pause the fight

 

Hope it helps a bit

Edited June 16, 2012 by xSalvatioN

[Rodein]

My advices would be:

- Obfuscate earlier and he'll hopefully blow his CDs

- Use relics!! Although you probably just forgot to write that you did

- Time your attacks! He obviously had defensive CDs up if your hardest hitting abilities (ravage, anni) hit below 2k in total.. AKA not the time to blow your offensive CDs

- Time your CC! When you see that your attacks hit low -> choke, IR or force camo (not CC i know, but it will give you time) that bastard so that his defensive CDs go out.

- Defensive CDs: Yes, you said you used them, but did you use them correctly? CoP -> SW at 70% -> UR at below 20%

- Medpacks + stims if you have them, if not then buy wz medpacks

- Force camo to pause the fight

 

Hope it helps a bit

 

Thanks for the advice. I did all of the above . Adrenal was on CD.

 

Used obfuscate early. Two Annihilate attacks did 324 dmg, thats 162 for each annihilate. And it normally hits 2-3k each at least. So hes mitigated 90-95% of my most powerful attack damage?

 

Force choke very rarely works in PvP (just ticks but they aren't stopped) however it did this time and he unleashed. Later in the fight I put more dots on force camo then out of force camo intimidating roar to buy me some more time but nothing worked.

 

I am not convinced Obfuscate or the defensive abilities make any difference vs them, i had saber ward up at the start when he did most of his big hitting.

[xSalvatioN]

Hmm, sins are very dangerous opponents atm, but they should be able to take down. And seeing a fellow anni mara doing such pitiful dmg with that much effort is heartbreaking :'(

 

Those two anni hits you got on him were both while his def CDs were up. Sins have two noteable def CDs:

First one is Deflection (similar to our SW) 50% dmg to melee and range for 12 sec. This gives you a difficult time as mara and also explains why your dots where your top dmg because they ignore this def.

 

And then there is the second, force shroud: This removes all dangerous effects and makes him immune to force and tech moves for 3 sec. I belive you tried to choke him when he had shroud up and therefore you lost the chance to pause the fight and let your dots tick.

 

I could keep on speculating on what didn't go your way against the sin, but the best way is for you to learn the class yourself, especially if this is the only class you have large difficulties with! Also, try becoming friends with good sins and duel them! There's no better way to learn how to beat them than battling them over and over! Anyways, I wish you luck

[Rodein]

Thanks.

 

So deflection increases melee and ranged defense by 50% for 12 seconds. How does a 50% defense increase equate to Annihilate doing 162 damage? It just doesn't add up to me, its 5% dmg that it normally does.

 

Without deflection are you saying I should be able to take them down easily? Is it worth just force choke, intimidating roar and then force cloak at the start of the fight if they use this?

[xSalvatioN]

I'm afraid it's a little bit more complicated than that because it's hard to avoid them that muck + that you won't be able to put out dmg and not to mention resolve, unleash and vanish. Sins are hard to take down, and you will always struggle on taking down a good sin, but with the right timing on abilities etc you'll atleast be able to stand a chance.

[Crawelc]

good info here, thanks you guys.

[Yescek]

I'm afraid it's a little bit more complicated than that because it's hard to avoid them that muck + that you won't be able to put out dmg and not to mention resolve, unleash and vanish. Sins are hard to take down, and you will always struggle on taking down a good sin, but with the right timing on abilities etc you'll atleast be able to stand a chance.

 

I'd ask you to take on a fully War Hero geared PLUS optimized mods PLUS fully (every single peice you can at the moment) aggued Tank Sin in DPS gear while you're in less than 7 parts War Hero and tell me you stand a chance again. If you've got a toon on Vornskr, I can point out several players who are just so geared.

[ChaosDogg]

I'd ask you to take on a fully War Hero geared PLUS optimized mods PLUS fully (every single peice you can at the moment) aggued Tank Sin in DPS gear while you're in less than 7 parts War Hero and tell me you stand a chance again. If you've got a toon on Vornskr, I can point out several players who are just so geared.

 

Pretty much this. The fight is interesting when you have equal gear but if they severely outgear you, it is very very difficult.

 

Here's what darkness sins can do and will abuse during the fight

 

- Deflection kills your damage (physical) but your force attacks will go through. Deflection parries also denies Force Charge root.

- Force Shroud makes them immune to force abilities and bleeds.

- Force Charge root can be removed with Force Speed

- They have ranged capabilities with Shock and Lightning.

- Self healing (12% hp healed from 3 stack Lightning full Channel), passive healing from dark surge and 10% hp healed from their level 50 cooldown (don't remember the name).

- Some of their melee abilities give them auto crit on Shock

 

In 1v1, you basically have to keep them cripped when force speed is down, keep deadly throw up and know when you can trade cds and you shouldn't. If they make a mistake and lightning with 2 stacks of harnessed darkness, you can interrupt it, otherwise you have to deny it. You have a few options namely trying to LoS, camo, choke or fear it. A lot of it comes down to knowing what they can do and when. If you know they are going to stun and you're going to take a lot of damage, you have to trade a cd by pre-emptively cloaking/saber ward or camo the electrocute.

 

One of the things they can abuse in a duel or 1v1 situation is forcing your unleash, vanish sap and seethe in your face while you sit the cc. In this case it's advantage for them. But you have a few options for it such as saving unleash, or trying to predict and sweeping slash into the vanish. If they force shroud and you smash the vanish by accident, you still keep in combat even though you did no damage so they can't sap you.

[Rodein]

Great tips so far, thanks guys have learnt a lot.

 

Hope you don't mind me spamming combat log's, hoping to understand this as a I read them. The ability tool tips don't really explain what they are doing.

 

Another Sith Assasin experience, I won this one but mainly because of a healer . Does Slow Time make a big difference to damage dealt?

 

[01:15:17.636] [@Rodein] [@Theeoo] [Annihilate {808123866546176}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (3438* kinetic {836045448940873}) <3438>

[01:15:18.633] [@Tukosh] [@Rodein] [slow Time {981503106351104}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Slow Time (Force) {981503106351360}] ()

[01:15:19.549] [@Rodein] [@Theeoo] [Annihilate {808123866546176}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (625* kinetic {836045448940873}) <625>

 

Also Force Breach seems to reduce accuracy a LOT ? My Accuracy is 101% but should I look at increasing this?

 

[01:15:05.176] [@Tukosh] [@Rodein] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Accuracy Reduced {964675424485667}] ()

[01:15:06.550] [@Rodein] [@Tukosh] [Assault {898601647603712}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (178 kinetic {836045448940873}) <178>

[01:15:06.552] [@Rodein] [@Tukosh] [Annihilate {808123866546176}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -parry {836045448945503}) <1>

[01:15:06.604] [@Rodein] [@Tukosh] [Assault {898601647603712}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -parry {836045448945503}) <1>

[01:15:06.933] [@Rodein] [@Rodein] [Deadly Saber {1259666663276544}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[01:15:06.933] [@Rodein] [@Rodein] [] [spend {836045448945473}: rage point {836045448938497}] (3)

[01:15:06.933] [@Rodein] [@Rodein] [Deadly Saber {1259666663276544}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Deadly Saber {1259666663276544}] ()

[01:15:07.205] [@Rodein] [@Tukosh] [Assault {898601647603712}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -parry {836045448945503}) <1>

[01:15:07.534] [@Rodein] [@Rodein] [Assault {898601647603712}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[01:15:07.535] [@Rodein] [@Tukosh] [Assault {898601647603712}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[01:15:08.173] [@Rodein] [@Tukosh] [Assault {898601647603712}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -parry {836045448945503}) <1>

 

etc....

 

Thanks again.

[ChaosDogg]

Should be 5% damage from slow time and 5% accuracy from force breach. Hitting them is also reliant on how much tanking gear they wear (defense etc). And having more shield/absorb reduces the size of your hits. But, one thing to note is that a critical is the first priority in a hit table so if you roll a crit, they won't shield.

 

Don't forget a lot of sins don't use force slow because of slow time. Slow time however is only a 30% slow to make up for the fact that it's aoe and spammable but your crippling slash is 50% and physical.

Edited June 17, 2012 by ChaosDogg

[Varicite]

Pretty much this. The fight is interesting when you have equal gear but if they severely outgear you, it is very very difficult.

 

Here's what darkness sins can do and will abuse during the fight

 

- Deflection kills your damage (physical) but your force attacks will go through. Deflection parries also denies Force Charge root.

- Force Shroud makes them immune to force abilities and bleeds.

- Force Charge root can be removed with Force Speed

- They have ranged capabilities with Shock and Lightning.

- Self healing (12% hp healed from 3 stack Lightning full Channel), passive healing from dark surge and 10% hp healed from their level 50 cooldown (don't remember the name).

- Some of their melee abilities give them auto crit on Shock

 

.

 

I just thought I'd note a small discrepancy here.

 

I play a Tankassin and Carnage Marauder, my fiance plays an Annihilation Marauder. We duel a LOT.

 

I have noticed that while Force Shroud will REMOVE bleed effects, it does not actually prevent them from being reapplied.

 

You may not have noticed this, but if you open your abilities tab, you will see that Rupture is actually classifed as a "Melee" ability, not Tech/Force. This means it will still land through Force Shroud (and means you can immediately reapply your DoTs right after they hit Shroud).

 

As long as the physical portion of the attack lands, even during Force Shroud, the bleed effect is still applied. I do not know if this is a bug or not, but this is the way it works currently.

 

Deadly Saber, since it's tied to your other abilities, can also be applied by using melee abilities during Force Shroud.

 

This way, you can wait for Shroud and just reapply your bleeds, negating a large portion of his "immunity". My fiance likes to bait Tankassins into using Shroud early by just using Rupture and then putting the full stack on them after they've blown Shroud.

 

Just thought this might help. : )

Edited June 17, 2012 by Varicite

[zxckakel]

Against tank sins/shadows at first I was having a hard time as an annhi. So I switched to Carnage.

What I did was first i'd use intimidating roar on them upon clash to make them use their cc breaker if not free gore+ ravage!. I usually start my defensive rotation with Obfu so they can waste some force, Cloak of pain @ 90, SW @ 60, UR @ 20%(this is the time I use medpack/wz pots).

 

Try popping gore+ravage as a trap to make them use their CC on you, now it's up to you whether or not to use the cc breaker at first cc, i usually use it on the first so I can set up my defense rotation easily.

 

I always pay attention to how much I'm damaging him, if you can't hit him for 3k/pop, then it's time you force camou yourself outta the way and wait for the CD. I always set up with ravage in order to bait him to use a cc on them, by the time he has no more CC to use or my resolve is full, the ultimate combo of massacre+gore+ravage+FS would be available. I always spam BA>(Gore)>Mass>VS>FS> while waiting for the cd of ravage. The success with assassin is popping up the Defense abilities at the right timing as well as baiting him into CC'ing me in the early phase of the combat.

[Yescek]

Against tank sins/shadows at first I was having a hard time as an annhi. So I switched to Carnage.

What I did was first i'd use intimidating roar on them upon clash to make them use their cc breaker if not free gore+ ravage!. I usually start my defensive rotation with Obfu so they can waste some force, Cloak of pain @ 90, SW @ 60, UR @ 20%(this is the time I use medpack/wz pots).

 

Try popping gore+ravage as a trap to make them use their CC on you, now it's up to you whether or not to use the cc breaker at first cc, i usually use it on the first so I can set up my defense rotation easily.

 

I always pay attention to how much I'm damaging him, if you can't hit him for 3k/pop, then it's time you force camou yourself outta the way and wait for the CD. I always set up with ravage in order to bait him to use a cc on them, by the time he has no more CC to use or my resolve is full, the ultimate combo of massacre+gore+ravage+FS would be available. I always spam BA>(Gore)>Mass>VS>FS> while waiting for the cd of ravage. The success with assassin is popping up the Defense abilities at the right timing as well as baiting him into CC'ing me in the early phase of the combat.

 

Once again, against someone with Full War Hero not even getting off the full Massacre > Gore > Ravage > Scream combo with adrenals+relics+bloodthirst will drop them below 80% and that's if you crit like a boss. Bloodthirst no longer stacks with itself. It's hard when, as Carnage, the above listed combo doesn't do much. And that's even the combo designed to nail down hard targets. Our other, Berserked Massacre Spam does even worse, but that's to be expected due to the nature of the damage.

[SpiritOfMage]

Don't use obfuscate against them early!!! The only time when u gonna use obfuscate at the start is if u engage them first and u can land obfuscate before they have started their trash/trash or VS/VS shock rotation. Chances of that are really slim, since most of the times they engage first from stealth and before u know it they have landed their 1st trash/Viscous Slash. So your best bet would be to save Obfuscate for when you are under 30%HP couse thats when they will try to Assassinate you (Assasiante is similar to our Viscous Throw acc. only usable on targets below 30%) and Assassinate makes lots of dmg. Apart from Trash/VS/Maul and Assassinate almost all their atacks are force based, so using obfucaste in any other time is a poor waste!