Why do people feel that everything should be easy to obtain?

[KennethHoover]

You have a moribund culture built upon instant gratification and participation medals...along with a healthy dose of "speshul snowflake" status.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised this sense of entitlement when it comes to gaming (of all things) isn't worse than it already is.

[islander]

This is THE MOST casual-oriented mmo I've ever played -- far more than ever WoW. Everything is dumbed down in SWTOR and gear is given out for free (e.g. BM gear is basically now free, and it's very competitive with WH).

 

I played "The Secret World" beta this last weekend and it was such a JOY to play something that wasn't dumbed down. You actually had to think about your builds (vs. placing talents in a vertical line . . .), you had to think about quests, and you had to think about how to handle content and switch builds to adjust. And none of this was ingenious nor ground-breaking: the devs just decided against going for the lowest common denominator.

 

Yeah, think about your builds for that boring as all hell combat. I played the beta as well. Wasn't impressed.

[Havocjones]

Thomasmeadows I was also a huge EQ fan but you can't compare EQ to SWG. If the bosses were not instanced like EQ there would be fewer people with boss drops.

[makjulos]

 

 

 

 

I played "The Secret World" beta this last weekend and it was such a JOY to play something that wasn't dumbed down. You actually had to think about your builds (vs. placing talents in a vertical line . . .), you had to think about quests, and you had to think about how to handle content and switch builds to adjust. And none of this was ingenious nor ground-breaking: the devs just decided against going for the lowest common denominator.

 

Hmm sounds like something to check out - i get a bit of tunnel vision when i start up a new game like i now play this one, good fun with dedication, but for sure i miss out on goodies because of it too....

 

[Kalfear]

The problem is, the individual who posted that he has 90 days playtime in this game which has been out for 180 days wants to exclude me and my friends and family from content simply because we don't play 12 hours a day for 6 months straight. He specifically said he wants things that only people with that kind of "dedication" in terms of time played can achieve.

 

I have no problem with others getting maximum enjoyment, but what about everyone else? This game isn't designed to reward that kind of time played, and likely never will be. It seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

 

This game has been created with common sense. I really LOL'd that you believe the "casual" players are the vocal minority? What? True casuals don't even speak up about anything. They just play the game a few hours a week. The vocal minority are the people who have 12 hours a day free time to play, and also post on forums. Whether they are a housewife or a ****** in prison, I don't care. They are still here either way trying to find some way to distinguish themselves in the game as being better than the next person. It's funny.

 

If I had to guess I think most normal members of society want a challenge, but not one that requires them to rearrange their entire life or stop showering. They don't want to log in and be insta-win. Play 1 hours a week. But 20 seems REASONABLE. And that is what is being offered by BW. 100 hours a week is not reasonable. It doesn't match up with commonly accepted values of western society. It is not profitable. It is dumb to want to require that of anyone. There is a balance somewhere. Sure Joe with 12 hours a day can go faster than me, but I can still do everything I want eventually. I'm sure any normal person would be happy with that.

 

NO he doesnt

 

Thats how you choose to read it

What he wants is for you not to be handed everything as the current format does

 

He want you to get the oppertunity to have the exact same stuff after the same amount of time

 

So if he plays 90 days in 180 days (still dont see why you keep going to that like you have some foresight as to why he plays that much, you dont so not to be rude but shut it with the veilled "no life" insults already) he wants you to have to play 90 days as well.

 

NO WHERE does he say he doesnt want you to have the oppertunity to get the stuff, he doesnt want you getting it after playing 10 days!

 

And I agree

 

As for rest of post, I could care less what you LOL about. Seems like you insult people and suggest their lifes are less productive then yours based on game play time! Tell me, I own my own house with no morgage, I pay all my bills on time, I have a active social life on week ends, and during the week I play 12-14 hours/day because I choose to. Tell me how I fit your little suggested insults? FACT is your jealous over those of us that dont need to slave away at McDonalds 60 hours a week anymore. Playing time is nothing more then a indicator that someone chooses to play more! THATS IT! Doesnt make some more or less of a human being inside or outside the game. If your only real comment is to constantly bring up how much someone else plays more then you, you have no point, just pety jealousy and envy that they are able to do that for what ever reason.

 

The QQing casuals that want everything handed to them on a silver platter are the VOCAL MINORITY.

 

Said it before and say it again, All but 2 of the casuals I know (and were talking different gaming orientated communities of 100s if not possibly 1000s) want challenge and are fine with not being spoon fed everything mindlessly like TOR, RIFT, WOW and others did. They are fine with someone who plays lots getting something in 2 months where they have to wait 9 months to reach same part of game as long as they have oppertunity at that time to obtain what ever.

 

They are the SILENT MAJORITY of casual players and they dont want FAST, EASY, SLOPPY MMO design!

 

Maybe they should be more vocal, I wish they were. But they are not.

 

And if Fast, easy, sloppy was so popular as you like to insist, why have all the MMOs since WOW that used that format suffered industry record setting cancellations just 1-2 months after release? Where are these majority of players when it comes to supporting these games. I mean Im assuming you understand these games should be designed for the people that will play them long term, not the 1-2 monthers that come in, eat all content up and quit. You do understand how the long term base is the important base of a MMO because subscription MMOs make most of their money off the monthly fee and not the box/digital sale.

 

And it seems Ive torn apart every one of your veilled insults and arguements with logic. I sit with baited breath for the next one. And can you drop the "but he played more then me" qq already. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH MORE SOME ELSE PLAYS.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Kalfear

[Razdek]

NO he doesnt

 

Thats how you choose to read it

What he wants is for you not to be handed everything as the current format does

 

He want you to get the oppertunity to have the exact same stuff after the same amount of time

 

So if he plays 90 days in 180 days (still dont see why you keep going to that like you have some foresight as to why he plays that much, you dont so not to be rude but shut it with the veilled "no life" insults already) he wants you to have to play 90 days as well.

 

NO WHERE does he say he doesnt want you to have the oppertunity to get the stuff, he doesnt want you getting it after playing 10 days!

 

And I agree

 

As for rest of post, I could care less what you LOL about. Seems like you insult people and suggest their lifes are less productive then yours based on game play time! Tell me, I own my own house with no morgage, I pay all my bills on time, I have a active social life on week ends, and during the week I play 12-14 hours/day because I choose to. Tell me how I fit your little suggested insults? FACT is your jealous over those of us that dont need to slave away at McDonalds 60 hours a week anymore. Playing time is nothing more then a indicator that someone chooses to play more! THATS IT! Doesnt make some more or less of a human being inside or outside the game. If your only real comment is to constantly bring up how much someone else plays more then you, you have no point, just pety jealousy and envy that they are able to do that for what ever reason.

 

The QQing casuals that want everything handed to them on a silver platter are the VOCAL MINORITY.

 

Said it before and say it again, All but 2 of the casuals I know (and were talking different gaming orientated communities of 100s if not possibly 1000s) want challenge and are fine with not being spoon fed everything mindlessly like TOR, RIFT, WOW and others did. They are fine with someone who plays lots getting something in 2 months where they have to wait 9 months to reach same part of game as long as they have oppertunity at that time to obtain what ever.

 

They are the SILENT MAJORITY of casual players and they dont want FAST, EASY, SLOPPY MMO design!

 

Maybe they should be more vocal, I wish they were. But they are not.

 

And if Fast, easy, sloppy was so popular as you like to insist, why have all the MMOs since WOW that used that format suffered industry record setting cancellations just 1-2 months after release? Where are these majority of players when it comes to supporting these games. I mean Im assuming you understand these games should be designed for the people that will play them long term, not the 1-2 monthers that come in, eat all content up and quit. You do understand how the long term base is the important base of a MMO because subscription MMOs make most of their money off the monthly fee and not the box/digital sale.

 

And it seems Ive torn apart every one of your veilled insults and arguements with logic. I sit with baited breath for the next one. And can you drop the "but he played more then me" qq already. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH MORE SOME ELSE PLAYS.

 

Casuals did get it in te same amount of time he did... He just sits in fleet all day with nothing to do and is bitter about it because he plays for too long. Hardcores need to suck it up.... They are now the minority in the mmo world because people who actually have a life can now play these games and achieve something without ruining their quality of life.... Maybe its time for hardcores to adapt and try getting some sunlight!

[Kalfear]

You kinda contradicted yourself at the end with the who cares part. If that's the case, swing it the other way, who cares HOW person A got item Z as long as you both got it in a way you both enjoyed.

 

Good post though.

 

No because the WHO cares is meant as

 

Why do I care if person A can play 100 hours and person b can play 10 hours

 

These people posting for fast easy sloppy like to try and insult anyone that plays more then them as "no lifers" and other random insults

 

WHO CARES how much someone plays. Thats up to each individual

 

But I do care what the difficulty curve (time and mob str combined) in the game is because if I play 100 hours a week, I still want the game to have new meaningful content for me 2-3-4-ect months down the road.

 

Take RIFT for example, Rift was amazingly fun, for 3 weeks. Thats when the leveling process ended and thats when the mass cancellations started. While haveing a brilliant concept and art/graphics, it was fast, easy, sloppy to level in and thus could not hold its base.

 

TOR is same thing. You really think if TORs level curve was much longer there would have been same amount of cancellations so soon aafter release? I know for a fact most of those bored 50s would have stayed and made it to 50, even if the 2 week max was turned into a 2 months max for big hour players (which makes it a 6-7 month max for the low hour casuals). The stories were strong enough the masses would have stayed to finish at least one character. Not everyone but far mroe then did.

 

So I say again

 

You play 100000000 hours because you choose to

or

You play 1 hour because you choose to

 

Thats completely YOUR CHOICE!

 

But in game, when the 1 hour player has everything the 10000000 hour player has, nothing is meaningful or unique!

[Grayseven]

But in game, when the 1 hour player has everything the 10000000 hour player has, nothing is meaningful or unique!

 

MMO's are games for the masses. Not for individuals. Nothing should be meaningful or unique. Everyone should have the opportunity to achieve everything everyone else has achieved.

 

No one is asking to have everything handed to them, they are simply asking that they not be forced into a specific play style. If something takes 20 hours played time to achieve, the player who can spend 12 hours a day playing will get it faster than the person who only plays one or two hours a day, but they both can achieve it.

 

Nothing should be made so time intensive that only people who have no life outside of cyberspace can achieve it. That is catering to the small population whose entire life revolves around a video game and is the quickest way to turn of the larger population where video games are a hobby or diversion. No company makes good money catering to the smallest population sample.

 

There is nothing hard about video games. Nothing. Especially MMO's where skill comes not from reflexes but from knowledge.

 

If Bioware was smart, the HK unlock would come from an epic quest line, not from a lame mechanic requiring people to alter their play style. The argument isn't about the difficulty of the unlock but from the simple fact that many do not want to have characters of opposite factions on the same server.

 

If Bioware were to come out and say that having a level 50 of each faction on an ACCOUNT wide basis instead of on the same server, this discussion simply would not be happening. I'm sure most players have tried out the other side to see what it is like, so it isn't a stretch to ask them to take one character from the other side to 50...

 

The same argument about legacy unlocks has been bandied about. Bioware as a company should begin to think about legacy not on a server by server basis, but on an account wide basis. The same goes for the HK unlock. When game companies begin to think in terms of account over server, the MMO world will be a much better place.

[Socialist]

I'm not trolling, I want to have a serious discussion.

 

For example, the HK-51 companion coming out is probably going to require both a lvl 50 imperial and a lvl republic character on the same legacy to get. People all of a sudden start to complain about how they "don't feel like leveling an opposite faction character" and "Bioware messed this one up I'm quitting". I happen to like the requirement because not everyone is going to get it, it's fun to experience leveling a character on both sides, and it's not another one of those freebies to come in the mail. We have to work for it. People in this game feel they are entitled to get everything that comes out in this game, and if they don't feel like doing it, it becomes "unfair" and "bad business Bioware".

 

I think some people fail to realize that this is not a single player game. You aren't going to get everything handed to you. In MMOs a lot of the successful players have things the other don't because they put in more effort. This isn't even a diffcult requirement anyway. I applaud Bioware for making this awesome companion at least a little difficult to get. I'm not trying to disparage anyone, I'd really like to know why people feel that if they don't like to do something then it shouldn't be a requirement to get a cool companion. I know some people have filled all their charact6er slots but have like a lvl 40, a lvl 20 and six lvl 1-10 characters. You can afford to delete one of them to level a republic guy if you want HK-51. It is your choice whether to fulfill the requirements or not.

 

Can we at least have a somewhat civil discussion for once? I have a feeling it's going to be too much to ask.

 

Because the concept of putting effort into a game is just far too silly.

 

Why do we have to extend the competitiveness and pseudo-meritocracy inherent to the 'real world' to our imaginary galaxy?

 

I work, research and (obviously) study. I have basically something around 6 hours/week to play this. And my life is already competitive and hard worked enough.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Socialist

[timmyw]

Reading this thread has been a hoot. Thanks

 

The simple thought that occurs to me is that No One ever makes you do anything. Does Bioware have a gun held up to your face, gangster style saying things like "You level this character immediately!"..?

 

Nope.

 

If you don't wanna role an opposing faction character then.... don't. Then you miss out on HK-51... big deal! You don't need him to play the game. My companions are already pretty powerful so you can easily make do with those ones.

 

Bioware are not making you do anything. People who are whining about having to roll an opposing faction character don't get that this game has a Legacy system, It was made with this kind of thing in mind and Bioware want to create things in the game that take advantage of that system. This will be one of them. If you don't want to expand your legacy then don't . It's simple.

 

Personally I hate pvp in this game, it reminds me too much of WoW so I skip it. It means I miss out on some stuff I want but I don't feel obligated to go to something I will not enjoy just to get that stuff.

 

Personally I love this. It's great! I have been yearning for something involved to do for a while now and this I hope will be really fun.

 

For all you people that are whining because you don't have to time to do something in a game and will miss out because you have real lives.. then perhaps you are missing your own point. Go live those lives. This is after all just a game.

[jfzoom]

its the same argument as... BUT MY MOM AND DAD ALWAYS HAD BMWS I GRADUATED COLLEGE I WANT IT NOWWWWWW. I dunno people dont wanna earn stuff anymore. I understood WoW 40 man raid stuff..I mean those were hard to get items and so few people did that content due the organization\scale\commitment involved...but I mean...you can level two characters solo. Id like HK to be cool..not some kinda novelty skin to other droids. if everyone has him on day one it'll be so worthless, the one thing Bioware does well with this game is the quests and storylines relative to other MMO's, Im excited for this dont want a dumbed down wait by mailbox and get my HK just because Im breathing, dont even have to be breathing geezus. Besides what else do we have to do? Theres not a whole lot of end game content right now.

[thomasmeadows]

Thomasmeadows I was also a huge EQ fan but you can't compare EQ to SWG. If the bosses were not instanced like EQ there would be fewer people with boss drops.

 

I did not compare bosses in EQ. Only the fact that EQ had things that were hard to get. And a lot of them.

 

This game has nothing that is hard to get. Everything can be obtained within 1-3 days of hitting level 50. The reason 90% of the servers are empty is because the other 90% of the populations of all the servers got everything they wanted well within the first 30 days and the only people left on the 6 servers we have left are the casual players who play for 4 hrs a day at most.

 

The fact that 1% of people have x item and 99% of the rest of the server doesn't gives the 99% a reason to keep playing this game instead of quitting. If 1% of people have really cool looking items with awesome stats. Well thats the life's bell curve. If everyone in the world had a billion dollars, no one would want a billion dollars anymore. Thats capitalism.

 

SHOULD NOT SOMETHING BE HARD TO GET IN THIS GAME? AND I DON'T MEAN LEVELING 2 CHARACTERS TO 50. GRINDING IS DIFFERENT FROM DIFFICULT.

 

btw, I was being sarcastic when i said I had 90 days played. People going on about nonsense for an eternity in 5-6 paragraphs make no sense and are completely off track of the topic. It just shows ignorance. How about talk about the topic, not how long someone played.

[utio]

No because the WHO cares is meant as

 

Why do I care if person A can play 100 hours and person b can play 10 hours

 

These people posting for fast easy sloppy like to try and insult anyone that plays more then them as "no lifers" and other random insults

 

WHO CARES how much someone plays. Thats up to each individual

 

But I do care what the difficulty curve (time and mob str combined) in the game is because if I play 100 hours a week, I still want the game to have new meaningful content for me 2-3-4-ect months down the road.

 

Take RIFT for example, Rift was amazingly fun, for 3 weeks. Thats when the leveling process ended and thats when the mass cancellations started. While haveing a brilliant concept and art/graphics, it was fast, easy, sloppy to level in and thus could not hold its base.

 

TOR is same thing. You really think if TORs level curve was much longer there would have been same amount of cancellations so soon aafter release? I know for a fact most of those bored 50s would have stayed and made it to 50, even if the 2 week max was turned into a 2 months max for big hour players (which makes it a 6-7 month max for the low hour casuals). The stories were strong enough the masses would have stayed to finish at least one character. Not everyone but far mroe then did.

 

So I say again

 

You play 100000000 hours because you choose to

or

You play 1 hour because you choose to

 

Thats completely YOUR CHOICE!

 

But in game, when the 1 hour player has everything the 10000000 hour player has, nothing is meaningful or unique!

 

Actually, It's the people wanting it to be harder than crapping bricks that are the first to jump in with the insults. They immediately get all defensive and start calling people entitled kids, etc, without even having a discussion, without even thinking about the other persons point of view.

Like i said before, I'm on neither side, but it does seem to me there's an attitude here that there should be only one way to get an item, and that's the hard way. Always been that way, so why change.

 

Just saying how it looks to me.

And one other thing, nothing IS meaningful or unique, no matter how easy or hard it is to obtain.

Edited June 19, 2012 by utio

[lordcanth]

It is very simple. If Bioware or any company wants me to play their game, they must give me content to play. If Bioware wants HK to be part of the content to keep me, then Bioware needs to let me get HK in a way that makes me feel like I *can* get him. If not, then HK doesn't exist to me, and gives me no reason to continue my sub.

 

It is not Entitlement, I know I have no right to any content. However, the reverse is also true. Bioware is not entitled to my money unless I feel I get value from it. I have already run thru much of the game on 7/8 of the classes, and I don't feel like doing the other to be honest, or repeating it.

 

So, if I run out of content, I guess I'll go play many of the dozens of games that have come out this year that I have ready and waiting. In other words, I don't care if BW gets my money or not. BW sure should, and everyone who actually cares about SWTOR should want as many people to sub as possible as that's the best way to get the most content.

[RicoFrost]

Simple answer people are lazy end of story.

 

People that say "it shouldn't be like working" don't understand that to get what you want you have to work for it.

 

If you like sports and you want to be good at it you have to train hard, work hard.

 

Its the same with any other mmo its no different, why do people still fail to understand it? If everything was easy you would get board. It wouldn't feel like you accomplished anything if its just given to you. If you feel like working to get something is too much work then don't play this game or any other mmo.

 

My view on it is, work for it and your rewarded. If working for something is too hard for you, then harden up boy cause that's life.

 

Bottom line if you feel this game is a job THEN DON'T PLAY!!! don't play any game because playing games get you nothing but enjoyment. If you don't enjoy it don't play it. It really is that simple.

 

I remember grinding for hours after work because i just wanted to unwind, grinding was relaxing for me.

Edited June 19, 2012 by RicoFrost

[Greywatch]

Easy! This is a game and not a job... I work most of the day and have only a couple of hours to play, sometimes none at all... so i don't want to get out from one job to get into another...

 

I have a full-time job and work most of the day, but I can't work out - however, I want muscles. God should make muscles easier to obtain because I don't want to get out from one job to another.

[MWidowmaker]

NO he doesnt

 

Thats how you choose to read it

What he wants is for you not to be handed everything as the current format does

 

He want you to get the oppertunity to have the exact same stuff after the same amount of time

 

So if he plays 90 days in 180 days (still dont see why you keep going to that like you have some foresight as to why he plays that much, you dont so not to be rude but shut it with the veilled "no life" insults already) he wants you to have to play 90 days as well.

 

NO WHERE does he say he doesnt want you to have the oppertunity to get the stuff, he doesnt want you getting it after playing 10 days!

 

And I agree

 

As for rest of post, I could care less what you LOL about. Seems like you insult people and suggest their lifes are less productive then yours based on game play time! Tell me, I own my own house with no morgage, I pay all my bills on time, I have a active social life on week ends, and during the week I play 12-14 hours/day because I choose to. Tell me how I fit your little suggested insults? FACT is your jealous over those of us that dont need to slave away at McDonalds 60 hours a week anymore. Playing time is nothing more then a indicator that someone chooses to play more! THATS IT! Doesnt make some more or less of a human being inside or outside the game. If your only real comment is to constantly bring up how much someone else plays more then you, you have no point, just pety jealousy and envy that they are able to do that for what ever reason.

 

The QQing casuals that want everything handed to them on a silver platter are the VOCAL MINORITY.

 

Said it before and say it again, All but 2 of the casuals I know (and were talking different gaming orientated communities of 100s if not possibly 1000s) want challenge and are fine with not being spoon fed everything mindlessly like TOR, RIFT, WOW and others did. They are fine with someone who plays lots getting something in 2 months where they have to wait 9 months to reach same part of game as long as they have oppertunity at that time to obtain what ever.

 

They are the SILENT MAJORITY of casual players and they dont want FAST, EASY, SLOPPY MMO design!

 

Maybe they should be more vocal, I wish they were. But they are not.

 

And if Fast, easy, sloppy was so popular as you like to insist, why have all the MMOs since WOW that used that format suffered industry record setting cancellations just 1-2 months after release? Where are these majority of players when it comes to supporting these games. I mean Im assuming you understand these games should be designed for the people that will play them long term, not the 1-2 monthers that come in, eat all content up and quit. You do understand how the long term base is the important base of a MMO because subscription MMOs make most of their money off the monthly fee and not the box/digital sale.

 

And it seems Ive torn apart every one of your veilled insults and arguements with logic. I sit with baited breath for the next one. And can you drop the "but he played more then me" qq already. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH MORE SOME ELSE PLAYS.

 

right on....the whole no life generalization is a failure argument with no basis in reality

Edited June 19, 2012 by MWidowmaker

[Amyas]

I'm not trolling, I want to have a serious discussion.

 

For example, the HK-51 companion coming out is probably going to require both a lvl 50 imperial and a lvl republic character on the same legacy to get. People all of a sudden start to complain about how they "don't feel like leveling an opposite faction character" and "Bioware messed this one up I'm quitting". I happen to like the requirement because not everyone is going to get it, it's fun to experience leveling a character on both sides, and it's not another one of those freebies to come in the mail. We have to work for it. People in this game feel they are entitled to get everything that comes out in this game, and if they don't feel like doing it, it becomes "unfair" and "bad business Bioware".

 

I think some people fail to realize that this is not a single player game. You aren't going to get everything handed to you. In MMOs a lot of the successful players have things the other don't because they put in more effort. This isn't even a diffcult requirement anyway. I applaud Bioware for making this awesome companion at least a little difficult to get. I'm not trying to disparage anyone, I'd really like to know why people feel that if they don't like to do something then it shouldn't be a requirement to get a cool companion. I know some people have filled all their charact6er slots but have like a lvl 40, a lvl 20 and six lvl 1-10 characters. You can afford to delete one of them to level a republic guy if you want HK-51. It is your choice whether to fulfill the requirements or not.

 

Can we at least have a somewhat civil discussion for once? I have a feeling it's going to be too much to ask.

 

I do not want easy what I also do not want is silly time sinks. Make his parts raid drops and such,

[Stoofa]

I fall firmly into the "You shouldn't get everything on a plate" category. Now before I go any further no I don't have all the best stuff and feel that nobody else should get it, in fact far from it. Due to my time constraints within the game (times I can play for longer periods) I am just not able to get into many operations and thus cannot get the "high end" gear. Does this upset me? No, not particularly. In all honesty there is no way I deserve to get the same kind of things as those that play plent of operations do.

 

What I would however like to see is alternative ways of getting items. I am NOT talking about easier ways, something that would take just as long, but give people an alternative route to gain things.

One example would be Black Hole items. Why not allow you to buy Black Hole commendations with daily tokens - but an incredibly bad exchange rate? Gives people the same opportunity but gives them another route to getting it.

 

So I don't have 3hrs spare at a time to run an operation, so maybe I could be given an alternative, as difficult way to achieve something that would require me to put 3hrs of game time in but allow me to split that time up into 3x 1hr sessions for example.

 

PvP there is no real way of an "alternative" route to the items.

 

So I fully support Rewards through Effort - the more effort the more and higher "gear" and equipment you get. I would however like to see there being routes to the better stuff for all, no easier but via a method that suits the players play-style.

[Phyreblade]

Point of people being agree isn't because they have to work for it, but because they are forced to do it. BW simply doesn't give any alternatives to obtaining HK thought a single faction. Many people like the fact that they can be associated with a single faction, and so far as I know there hasn't been a single MMO out there that forced someone to level both factions in order to obtain a big part of the game play. Sure there may have been instances where if you had dual factions characters you may have gotten some title or some vanity item, but not miss half the game play.

 

Think of it this way, what if in order to gain access to some high level content in an MMO, you had to have dual faction characters, there is no way around it. Level the faction you don't like playing to 50,60 or 80 before you can see new content, because this is basically what it all comes down to.

 

This just goes to show BW's piss poor solution to the lack of content in SWTOR. They don't have new content to release, so instead they will make you grind for the little that they have in hopes people will do and buy themselves some time.

 

This actually drives me a bit bonkers. No one is being FORCED to do anything. Seriously.

 

Rather, if you WANT the companion added to your game experience, there are certain STEPS to achieving the thing which MAY or MAY NOT require just such an effort as rolling toons on both sides of the aisle. If you choose to refrain from doing so it MAY or MAY not be much much harder to get the companion. It might prove impossible, shrug. I myself don't know, but Bioware hasn't actually clarified what the process will entail other than to say it's going to be massive and it's going to take alot of work.

 

So the thing is, at the end of the day, no one has to get the HK companion. You can, or not. It's totally up to you. If you want HK, then you'll have to follow the steps towards the companion. That's it. Do or do not, because there's simply no forcing you either way.

[CosmicKat]

MMO's are games for the masses. Not for individuals. Nothing should be meaningful or unique. Everyone should have the opportunity to achieve everything everyone else has achieved.

 

No one is asking to have everything handed to them, they are simply asking that they not be forced into a specific play style. If something takes 20 hours played time to achieve, the player who can spend 12 hours a day playing will get it faster than the person who only plays one or two hours a day, but they both can achieve it.

 

Nothing should be made so time intensive that only people who have no life outside of cyberspace can achieve it. That is catering to the small population whose entire life revolves around a video game and is the quickest way to turn of the larger population where video games are a hobby or diversion. No company makes good money catering to the smallest population sample.

 

There is nothing hard about video games. Nothing. Especially MMO's where skill comes not from reflexes but from knowledge.

 

*snip*

 

I'm sorry but this is exactly the attitude that is killing the MMO. MMO's are not games for the masses, they are games for MMO players. Bowling on the Wii is for "the masses".

 

Of course there is a play style that one must follow to play an MMO. You must play it like an MMO. If you can't play it lke an MMO, with the expectation that your progress will be determined by the time you have to commit to it, then you should not be playing MMO's.

 

There are simple video/PC games and hard ones. A large problem with this game is that it is far too simple to play. There is very little skill or knowledge required to play TOR. The difficulty in this game has been turned so low that it is in "off".

 

A secret that most all veteran MMO players know is that gear, even godlike uber gear does not make a bad player good. A person who can't work with a party is useless, no matter how uber his or her gear is. A major issue with TOR's non-MMO flavour is that because everything is so insanely simple, new players never learn how to play an MMO. Yes, it takes SKILL. The skill isn't in how good you are at pressing hotkeys, it is in knowing your limitations and strengths, and how to work with other people and classes.

 

In short... The uber tank from Everquest who had the once-a-month drop from uber monster #20 was never uber because he had the Sword of Uberness, or because he could play 16 hours a day. He was uber because he knew how to play his role in an MMO. The tiny percentage of extra damage he may have been doing because of said sword is completely insignificant.

[Deyjarl]

really, name me a game thats done my model thats failed!

 

Name one that has been a huge success?

 

I never said any failed. That is your strawman argument you've mad eup to defeat.

 

Have there been games on that model that are surviving? Sure. Never said there weren't. But there are no widely successful ones, at least not in the NA market that use that model. Not even DAoC.

[Deyjarl]

You are not entitled to everything in a game. You should not be able to get everything in a game. I have everything in this game because it is easy.

 

Is this even what most people are asking for? Or just a few and the rest want something within reason?

 

I see people saying with in reason, or alternate methods of obtaining something similar or equivalent.

[Deyjarl]

When will ppl accept that not every game is designed with them specificly in mind?

 

But then some people are trying to change this into something else. They seem to be trying to change this game into some kind of hardcore model, which is not what it is now.

 

So shouldn't they be the ones to realize this game wasn't designed for them?

Edited June 20, 2012 by Deyjarl

[Deyjarl]

I'm telling you...

 

They should put in an "epic" button after you select your faction! Then if you hit this "epic" button you will be instantly epic and be level 50! Then you can brag to everyone about how awesome you are!!

 

lol

 

Ooorrrrr..people who can't play the game for what it is should just leave. I don't think things in games should be easy. I want to work for something. I don't want it handed to me on a silver platter.

 

Pointless hyperbole that doesn't add anything intelligent to the discussion. If you have to make ridiculous exaggerations like that to counter those who disagree with you, it says a lot about you.