Archaar Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 So....I re-rolled a scoundrel a while back and levelled purely through PvP, I never at any point felt like I could not contribute or did not have a chance of winning a fight. I've been playing a Scrap/Bones hybrid (slightly more offensive than usual, i.e. no emergency medpac) and went through warzones getting upwards of 20Kb's, top damage and rarely dying and I mean rarely. So I ding 50, bought myself a full Recruit set and War Hero main hand blaster, I'm sitting at about 978 expertise and feel....useless. My damage is horribly low. What gives? The difference between Recruit -> BM surely cannot be that much that it will make a significant difference to my damage output? I get absolutely walloped by other classes and I mean walloped, my health bar just vanishes. I pop adrenals hit them back and barely break 1k on crits, I just don't get it. For a point of reference, I went on my Shadow which is full BM and I haven't played that char in almost 2 months (got bored of it), came up with a balance hybrid spec and wrecked a warzone was seeing constant high crits after adrenal popping, I'm pretty shocked how ineffectual I feel on my scoundrel and bioware is slightly nerfing the class again in 1.3. Is it purely a gear thing or are scoundrels really in a horrible place DPS wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkangl Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yes gear in this game makes a HUGE difference in pvp... Many of my friends have hated pvping on a fresh 50 but once you get top gear you become the hunter not the prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlem Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 The PvP gear curve is absurde, BW has yet to figure out that it's the reason why so many people get discouraged from PvP'ing at 50 and not because of the quote in my sig below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icechai Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 It's not even that great a curve since getting 5 pieces of BM for bonuses takes a week on average. But the difference is huge from having that many BM pieces compared to Recruit. You'll find yourself killing a lot more w/ DF build until you get 4+ pieces of BM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well I've endured a night of PvP I have one piece of BM gear, I tried a full scrapper build and it was pretty pathetic, then to top things off in my last warzone of the night a Merc absolutely destroyed me, I mean completely and utterly destroyed me. I kept seeing 3-4k crits on my screen, so far that merc is the player that's killed me faster than any other player and I mean in under 10 seconds, never seen anything like it before, I did not think they were capable of such ridiculous damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrunip Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well I've endured a night of PvP I have one piece of BM gear, I tried a full scrapper build and it was pretty pathetic, then to top things off in my last warzone of the night a Merc absolutely destroyed me, I mean completely and utterly destroyed me. I kept seeing 3-4k crits on my screen, so far that merc is the player that's killed me faster than any other player and I mean in under 10 seconds, never seen anything like it before, I did not think they were capable of such ridiculous damage. Yep, I got hit over 4K on Rail Shot from a Powertech. A freakin' tank! I managed to hit a maximum of 3.6K dmg as a full BM scapper. Sounds fair. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrys Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 The most important component of any scoundrel/operative PVP guide is GEAR-GEAR-GEAR. Got Gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joajoa Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 It was hard for my scoundrel too when he hit first hit 50.At the time,Centurion gear was still around,and that's what I had to use at first. Most of your problems stem from the big jump in damage you receive against uber-geared opponents at the 50 bracket.It's not a class issue,it's a gear issue. At level 50,you have to realize that you will get dropped in a few seconds.It's just the way it is.If you're scrapper build,you have to adjust your gamestyle around your squishyness.You have to do a better job of picking targets,make sure you focus fire along with your team and don't try to be a hero and take on a guy with uber-gear 1 vs 1. With weak gear,you need to hit wounded,unguarded targets and try to kill them fast.If someone stronger than you tries to lock you into a one vs one fight,Flash Grenade or Dirty Kick them off you and go pick on somebody you can beat. You can forget about trying to carry the ball in Huttball.If someone passes you the ball,hit your defensive screen and pass the ball as fast as you can to someone else. If you get real frustrated,switch to Sawbones for a while,until you can get better gear.Then switch back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yep, I got hit over 4K on Rail Shot from a Powertech. A freakin' tank! I managed to hit a maximum of 3.6K dmg as a full BM scapper. There's quite simply no way a tank-specced powertech hit you with a railshot for 4k. It was almost certainly a pyrotech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 There's quite simply no way a tank-specced powertech hit you with a railshot for 4k. It was almost certainly a pyrotech. Yep. And Powertechs are usually specced in Pyrotech, not their Tanking tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 What a thoroughly frustrating class, have a bit more gear now and I still feel useless. I honestly think that going DD can only be done with full augmented War Hero and the only other option is to play a heal bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystak Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 What a thoroughly frustrating class, have a bit more gear now and I still feel useless. I honestly think that going DD can only be done with full augmented War Hero and the only other option is to play a heal bot. I just got a server transfer. Im currently farming people like its no ones business. Must be different on your server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I just got a server transfer. Im currently farming people like its no ones business. Must be different on your server I can only do this against very undergeared, bad PVPers. So far, there's not a lot of bad Imperials on P5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombalurina Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Go full DF, it's a lot of fun and you can pull 700k if you know what your doing. Trying to break 1 mil as scoundrel DF personally. I did it in healing.... http://i.imgur.com/5d8Iz.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmille Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Go full DF, it's a lot of fun and you can pull 700k if you know what your doing. Trying to break 1 mil as scoundrel DF personally. I did it in healing.... http://i.imgur.com/5d8Iz.jpg Hey look, it's the SS again. Impressive indeed. Post it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmaybon Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Yep. And Powertechs are usually specced in Pyrotech, not their Tanking tree. Wait what? Power techs specing In pyrotech. Correct me of I'm wrong but aren't they different advanced class for imperial agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heggelund Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wait what? Power techs specing In pyrotech. Correct me of I'm wrong but aren't they different advanced class for imperial agent? Powertech/pyrotech = BH sniper/ops = IA 2 totally different classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Nearly no power/surge on recruit set. And after seeing that you somehow wanted to melt faces with recruit dps hat. Dissapointment. May be you need aroung 800 tech bonus damage and around 75 % crit multiplayer (augmented WH) to not feel dissapointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Nearly no power/surge on recruit set. And after seeing that you somehow wanted to melt faces with recruit dps hat. Dissapointment. May be you need aroung 800 tech bonus damage and around 75 % crit multiplayer (augmented WH) to not feel dissapointment. It is not about "melting faces" in recruit gear, its about the class under performing as dps. I am now full BM apart from the shotgun and the class still under performs. Even my recruit geared sage feels like it performs better. My freinds have already said they would take my BM shadow over my BM scoundrel for warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 It is not about "melting faces" in recruit gear, its about the class under performing as dps. I am now full BM apart from the shotgun and the class still under performs. Even my recruit geared sage feels like it performs better. My freinds have already said they would take my BM shadow over my BM scoundrel for warzones. It could be user error. Scoundrels are extremely gear dependent especially weapon dependent. On my WH geared Norse Powertech, there were maybe 2-3 scoundrels that I ever even worried about. 2 of them were amazing stun machines who never stopped moving, and kept me kited better than any other spec I have ever seen. This one guy took pleasure in destroying me every time I stood off by myself. Could I kill him with ease if my CD's were up, yes, but he taught me more about how to kill a Scrapper than any other player. I now play a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel, and spend 90 percent of my time weaving in and out and kiting for kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 It could be user error. Scoundrels are extremely gear dependent especially weapon dependent. On my WH geared Norse Powertech, there were maybe 2-3 scoundrels that I ever even worried about. 2 of them were amazing stun machines who never stopped moving, and kept me kited better than any other spec I have ever seen. This one guy took pleasure in destroying me every time I stood off by myself. Could I kill him with ease if my CD's were up, yes, but he taught me more about how to kill a Scrapper than any other player. I now play a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel, and spend 90 percent of my time weaving in and out and kiting for kills. It has to be user error does it? I have no problem killing things and performing on my Shadow, I know how to kite, how and when to stun, when to use defensive cooldowns, when to interrupt etc.... WH Geared Powertechs are not a good example, they are arguably one of the most if not the most OP class in the game right now, if your not killing everything 1v1 your playing the class wrong. I had no problem fighting anything while levelling 10-49 through PvP only, I was able to kill anything 1v1, sometimes 2v1 and even won a 4v1 (huttball, in their pit area), admittedly I was level 48 at the time (2 of them were level 20-30, 1 was a 45 commando, the other a 12 Sage), you don't just suddenly forget how to play when you reach level 50. Is the class so gear dependant that you HAVE to have full WH to be able to compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Could I kill him with ease if my CD's were up, yes Exactly. And this is the case with everyone of my characters. No matter how well a scrapper plays I stomp them unless I'm already under 50% health when they open on me. And even then its like 50/50. When I play my own scrapper, I farm newbs mostly in bad gear but I know that against a competent enemy I have to blow everything I've got, from stealth opening, and play much better than them to get the win. Other classes it's just much easier and more readily repeatable because I'm not desperately trying to break out of combat and I don't have to try kiting while dipping in for 4m blaster whip and back blast @ their back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Is the class so gear dependant that you HAVE to have full WH to be able to compete? As a scrapper you need the enemy to be at a significant health deficit from your opening because a competent enemy won't let you get another backblast on them without blowing your vanish cooldown. With bolster, everyone is at around 12k. At 50, everyone is 16k to 20k+. HP scale higher than damage scales (HP goes up 50% while your damage goes up 30% from stat distribution on BM gear). So until you're fully, fully kitted out you just can't hit the types of numbers you need to and it will become even worse with 1.3. The bottom line is if they're over 40% health by the time you finish tossing punches you will lose the fight (if they aren't horribad) - that's pretty demanding to ask out of like 5 GCDs. What needs to happen is backblast needs to lose its directional facing requirement, vanish needs a lower cooldown (to counter the fact that if anyone survives your opening you're stuck in combat at least until vital shot wears off) and vanish needs to cleanse rather than having to waste dodge on it. Those 3 changes completely fix the class because you can actually USE dodge, you can get out of combat if you need to more readily and your applied DPS is more consistent with other melee classes. Edited June 21, 2012 by dcgregorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayshames Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 So....I re-rolled a scoundrel a while back and levelled purely through PvP, I never at any point felt like I could not contribute or did not have a chance of winning a fight. I've been playing a Scrap/Bones hybrid (slightly more offensive than usual, i.e. no emergency medpac) and went through warzones getting upwards of 20Kb's, top damage and rarely dying and I mean rarely. So I ding 50, bought myself a full Recruit set and War Hero main hand blaster, I'm sitting at about 978 expertise and feel....useless. My damage is horribly low. What gives? The difference between Recruit -> BM surely cannot be that much that it will make a significant difference to my damage output? I get absolutely walloped by other classes and I mean walloped, my health bar just vanishes. I pop adrenals hit them back and barely break 1k on crits, I just don't get it. For a point of reference, I went on my Shadow which is full BM and I haven't played that char in almost 2 months (got bored of it), came up with a balance hybrid spec and wrecked a warzone was seeing constant high crits after adrenal popping, I'm pretty shocked how ineffectual I feel on my scoundrel and bioware is slightly nerfing the class again in 1.3. Is it purely a gear thing or are scoundrels really in a horrible place DPS wise? I felt this exact way about my operative, concealment spec from like 20-50 pvp was amazing, soon as I hit 50 i'm getting torn down so easily, I'm really struggling to get battlemaster because quite frankly getting mauled down in a split second by everything isn't all that enjoyable. Don't get me wrong I can do OK damage if im not being targetted, but about 2 mins into a WZ when people realise it's me they'll stop attacking a sorc with 1k hp to come kill me (13k hp) and probably faster aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I felt this exact way about my operative, concealment spec from like 20-50 pvp was amazing, soon as I hit 50 i'm getting torn down so easily, I'm really struggling to get battlemaster because quite frankly getting mauled down in a split second by everything isn't all that enjoyable. Don't get me wrong I can do OK damage if im not being targetted, but about 2 mins into a WZ when people realise it's me they'll stop attacking a sorc with 1k hp to come kill me (13k hp) and probably faster aswell. before 3 pc WH, your best bet as a dps scoundrel is to farm the outskirts and play defense until you get enough gear to make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts