Ranked WZ's and Merc's...

[Swaggz]

Now, I know as Pyro us Merc's can deal some decent damage. We can keep up or beat most classes on damage done (our AoE's help in this) but we all know that damage done doesn't always mean much (esp considering KB's, objective points, etc). I know in some situations, depending on WZ, we can kite using LoS, but most of the time it seems that we're free kills for most melee who have at least half a brain. Yes, we're more mobile than Arsenal, but not by much. Once RS and TD are on CD we're pretty much either running around spamming Rapid Shots or turreting PS/Unload hoping for a RS proc. Small rant, but oh well, now to the actual question. From a purely utility standpoint, what would be the reasoning for bringing a non-bodyguard spec'd Merc into a Ranked WZ premade? The only real thing we have utility wise is:

 

- 1 stun (not counting concussion missile due to cast time and not gonna save power surge just for that all the time).

- 1 knockback (yes, Arsenal can spec into a Rocket Punch knockback, but it's really not all that great from a survivability stand point)

- 1 25% damage reduction reduction shield on a 2m CD.

 

Now I know some will say we have self heals, but unless you're spec'd into it, they absolutely blow and will overheat you in a heartbeat. As for Kolto overload...well, if you can't DPS through that with your spammable white dmg abitlity, then you need to see what you're doing wrong. Now compared to other classes, we have:

 

- No Leap/Jump ability

- No real slow (yes, we have them on rapid shots (if CGC actually applies the affect) and unload depending on tree, but seriously...2s while we're planted?)

- No interupt

- No Speed boost

 

Now I'm not saying we should have all of those, but compared to most other classes, we're lacking in the utility department. So I guess that brings be back to the main question...Why bring a non-bodyguard spec'd Merc to a Ranked WZ when other classes can do what we can, only better?

Edited June 12, 2012 by Swaggz

[Enkaizu]

Just give us a reliable snare that is comparable to a melee's snare. IE: Sith Assassin's snare with a 30m range. Past that most of our issues rely on not being interrupted.

[Serpieri]

Arsenal needs to be similiar to sniper.

Pyro needs to be made closer to the powertech w/100% snare and w/instant cast PowerShot. Unload should not be needed in this tree. Pyro must be mobile.

[Splaktar]

Good post in the OP. I pretty much feel the same way while PVP'ing on my Merc. Yes, I can knock people off the ledges in huttball IF I get my knockback off before the enemy. But everyone else seems to be leaping, grappling, summoning, force running, around while I'm stuck in slow motion trying to get in range of the ball carrier. If I do get in range, I get charged and thrown off the ledge.

 

In other WZs, the knockback doesn't buy me any utility other than about 3s longer to live. Which doesn't generally result in any kind of successful strategy, especially when half of the time at least one player around me in completely immune to the knockback and just stays right on top of me or my healer.

[Macroecon]

what would be the reasoning for bringing a non-bodyguard spec'd Merc into a Ranked WZ premade?

 

THE only rational reason to bring a Merc is that the Merc pilot is highly skilled and makes up for his toon's deficiencies with better player skill. No team seeking best performance would otherwise select a gimped class.

[Automage]

I roll a merc pyro in pvp. Finally got 2 piecies of war hero gear and with my macros I am pulling about 400k a round. Problem is the stigma that mercs have... And I will say people really don't give the class any credit... Makes every Jedi counceler kill that much more satisfying but it's making it impossible almost to get into a ranked war zone. Wish people would give us a chance :-/

[DaPorkchop]

I haven't read this, just know, everything you do, a Power Tech can do better. Plus they have more utilities. As arsenal, you can do more burst. However, you die the quickest in the game. I have tried to defend this class for a long time. I give up. A Power Tech with the same spec as you will do more damage and survive a lot longer. There's no reason for a rated WZ team to bring you over any other dps class. You can't even do more damage than a sniper and a sniper has more stuns and knockbacks and other fun stuff. I'm so over this class.

[DaPorkchop]

Arsenal needs to be similiar to sniper.

Pyro needs to be made closer to the powertech w/100% snare and w/instant cast PowerShot. Unload should not be needed in this tree. Pyro must be mobile.

 

making us equal is still making us less. Even if we put as much damage out as a sniper, we still wouldn't have the utilization they have. If we did as much damage as a power tech, they would still have the ability to guard and we don't. Plus more survivability. This class is THE worst class in the game. We may even heal the same as Sorcs and Ops, but they, again, have more utilization. Worst class in the game and I am really upset. The only thing I can do though, is roll another class and hope I can gear up in time for RWZ's

Edited June 16, 2012 by DaPorkchop

[LordZym]

I'm sorry but this is just no no no. Every class is meant to be unique in it's own right you can't have every class with stun's snares and knock backs otherwise there would be no incentive to play each class.

 

Granted Powertech is set towards a Dps spec but their is no way it can compete in terms of the damage a Merc can do. I've played through almost every class to a decent level and i have a merc at level 50 with a few BM pieces. I understand that i'm not seeing the full potential of the class and haven't played against the same players you are. But even so i don't think you can say mercs not having enough utility.

 

You say melee with half a brain is whats troubling you. As the name suggests, Melee is a close combat class so your environment and line of sight is the key to beating them especially in arsenal spec. In huttball you aim is the ball handler unless your healing. You need to set yourself up on the second tier of platforms overlooking the acid pit on your side. Preferably just in front of one of the fire pits. This way if someone jumps to you they are likely to either end up in the flame pits and just stun them otherwise just knock them off. By standing on the second tier it also allows you to fire down to the lower tier and focus damage if the opponents do get past the first pit. This also reduces the line of sight for melee classes to leap to you as the angle from lower to upper is so tight it's difficult for players to change camera angles.

 

Post your skill tree spec.

Edited June 16, 2012 by LordZym

[DaPorkchop]

Who are you talking to?

 

A couple points to your post. Name something a Merc can do that a PT can't do. PT's out damage us. Or at least vanguards. To be honest, they are the only class I don't stand a chance against.

 

No not every class can be the same. However, if we are not top damage (to equally geared people), then what are we? Cause we certainly do not have the ability to do anything except damage. I have all war hero, eliminator set. There is a PT in my guild. He has MAYBE 3 pieces of War Hero, yet he out damages me, and can stay alive ALOT longer than I can. The reason I'm harping on Power Techs is because they are the only class to out dps me in a WZ, on a regular basis. Occasionally a Mara or a Sorc will do more.

 

Edit- I said the above then realized, equally geared/skilled snipers will out dps me everytime.

 

Now with all this said, this is as Pyro. As Arsenal, I can burst someone down quite well if I'm left alone. Get someone on me and I spend my of my time trying to get the guy away from me. Usually, to no avail. While i'm doing this I lose damage. Also, someone can LOS me or interrupt me and screws up my damage as well.

 

And another note, Pyro is able to put these numbers up because they can't get LOS'd like most other ranged classes. Then against melee you can keep them away from you. BUT...good luck trying to bring down any half decent healer solo.

 

No this isn't a solo sport, but what do Mercs bring to the table another class can't do better???

Edited June 16, 2012 by DaPorkchop

[T-Assassin]

Who are you talking to?

 

A couple points to your post. Name something a Merc can do that a PT can't do. PT's out damage us. Or at least vanguards. To be honest, they are the only class I don't stand a chance against.

 

cleanse PT/s DoT's, knockback, mezz, heal.

 

No not every class can be the same. However, if we are not top damage (to equally geared people), then what are we? Cause we certainly do not have the ability to do anything except damage. I have all war hero, eliminator set. There is a PT in my guild. He has MAYBE 3 pieces of War Hero, yet he out damages me, and can stay alive ALOT longer than I can. The reason I'm harping on Power Techs is because they are the only class to out dps me in a WZ, on a regular basis. Occasionally a Mara or a Sorc will do more.

 

i play defensman, like hockey, in HB. i keep the center clear and allow no one past the "blue line".

 

VS- i use pillars to kite and shoot planters...works very well.

 

NC/Ald- i provide long range DPS support and kill healers.

 

Edit- I said the above then realized, equally geared/skilled snipers will out dps me everytime.

 

they do not out DPS me...maybe 1% of the time

...MAYBE)

 

Now with all this said, this is as Pyro. As Arsenal, I can burst someone down quite well if I'm left alone. Get someone on me and I spend my of my time trying to get the guy away from me. Usually, to no avail. While i'm doing this I lose damage. Also, someone can LOS me or interrupt me and screws up my damage as well.

 

And another note, Pyro is able to put these numbers up because they can't get LOS'd like most other ranged classes. Then against melee you can keep them away from you. BUT...good luck trying to bring down any half decent healer solo.

 

smart, well played healers are VERY difficult to kill... if they have to heal themselves, guess who's NOT getting healed...and i guarantee you this...the one heal they cast on someone OTHER than themselves, is all i need.

 

No this isn't a solo sport, but what do Mercs bring to the table another class can't do better???

 

DPS and kite.

 

since the server merges, i've noticed many SW/JK automatically jumping to me (or my SI/lightning guildie). he dies fast, i do not. i'll run em to the pit, kite em then KB em off cliffs, drag em to my team, etc.

 

i am NOT an easy kill. even with >2 on me. had 4 melee chasin me in NC...kited em around the tent 3 times before we ninja capped and then i KB'd em off the ledge...classic.

 

this class is just more difficult to master.

 

but, any RWZ group that would turn me down for any other DPS, would be making a mistake.

[Serpieri]

since the server merges, i've noticed many SW/JK automatically jumping to me (or my SI/lightning guildie). he dies fast, i do not. i'll run em to the pit, kite em then KB em off cliffs, drag em to my team, etc.

 

i am NOT an easy kill. even with >2 on me. had 4 melee chasin me in NC...kited em around the tent 3 times before we ninja capped and then i KB'd em off the ledge...classic.

 

this class is just more difficult to master.

 

but, any RWZ group that would turn me down for any other DPS, would be making a mistake.

 

You run them into the pit....aha.....

KB em off cliffs...

Drag them to your team....

 

Clearly the Merc class is OP - all that's neeeded to suceed is to use acid pits, cliffs, and the rest of your team to be successful.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Serpieri

[DaPorkchop]

since the server merges, i've noticed many SW/JK automatically jumping to me (or my SI/lightning guildie). he dies fast, i do not. i'll run em to the pit, kite em then KB em off cliffs, drag em to my team, etc.

 

i am NOT an easy kill. even with >2 on me. had 4 melee chasin me in NC...kited em around the tent 3 times before we ninja capped and then i KB'd em off the ledge...classic.

 

this class is just more difficult to master.

 

but, any RWZ group that would turn me down for any other DPS, would be making a mistake.

 

You are living in a dream world.

 

You act like healers can't line of site you. Also, you don't have much in the way of burst, meaning, healers can keep up with the damage you are doing.

 

You are lying to yourself, snipers out damage you. Go level a sniper and play it yourself if you think you are better than snipers because of pyro. Either you have unskilled or ungeared snipers if they aren't out dps'ing you.

 

You said: cleanse PT/s DoT's, knockback, mezz, heal.

 

All of which you have no time or heat to do to anyone else but yourself. Again, making us prretty useless. There is NO place in RWZ for a merc non healer bh. Face it.

Edited June 17, 2012 by DaPorkchop

[Artichokey]

I took a month off from this game hoping things would improve for Mercenary.

 

I can now clearly see that BW doesn't give a sh!@ about the advanced spec at all. The 1.3 changes are laughable at best and do absolutely NOTHING to improve our survivability. I am disgusted with war zones as Arsenal, laughable damage, terrible mobility, no utility and ZERO survivability. In other words: DO NOT PLAY MERCENARY ADV. SPEC IF YOU WANT TO PVP. Throw the entire design in the garbage and start over.

 

How can developers not see this? It goes far beyond incompetence if they haven't discovered the state Mercs are in. Hell WoW would have fixed these issues in a day or two if such an issue ever occurred. Do you just not care? Or are you only catering to the glow stick fan boys with clear disregard to the lesser specs?

 

I have never been so unhappy with an advance spec until now. 1.2 completely ruined Arsenals way of life while improving every other class. Please, spend the time it takes to test out Merc, 1 hour tops and you will see our very clear short comings. Stop burrying your head in the sand (or someplace else) over this issue and step to it and improve us. I enjoyed my class all the way till 1.2, now i cant stand logging in even to check mail.

 

If i am coming off as mad, well i am. I have never seen such a clear lack of effort on class development as i have seen from BW. It just makes me wonder, what happened to you guys after Dragon age 2 and ME 3's ending. Ive seen nothing but a downwards slope from you guys every year and its bothersome....

 

You guys clearly need to address things much faster than you have been. You only bring shame to BW's name and worsen EA's image by continually failing your faithful few remaining customers. You can do better and you know it.

 

Anyway, rant over, post probably being deleted soon after being read, oh well.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Artichokey

[T-Assassin]

You are living in a dream world.

i must be in some fanatasy land...and in this place i play a Merc, and i succeed in PvP...no, wait. that's on MZL and now DPB.

 

You act like healers can't line of site you. Also, you don't have much in the way of burst, meaning, healers can keep up with the damage you are doing.

they can try to LoS me...that's fin...as long as they aren't healing anybody else...

 

You are lying to yourself, snipers out damage you. Go level a sniper and play it yourself if you think you are better than snipers because of pyro. Either you have unskilled or ungeared snipers if they aren't out dps'ing you.

no...i'm not. i'm excellent at DPS, and i've rarely been beat, by any class. did i mention my VR55 sniper...i know i have...well, i just find Merc "easier" to play and succeed in PvP...just my play style...run and gun.

 

You said: cleanse PT/s DoT's, knockback, mezz, heal.

 

All of which you have no time or heat to do to anyone else but yourself. Again, making us prretty useless. There is NO place in RWZ for a merc non healer bh. Face it.

 

i have plenty of time to cleanse while i kite...never had an issue..

 

did you know??, TSO: your next ability generates no heat...and combined with power surge!!! makes it instant...could be handy trying to mezz, heal, FM...

 

i know i'm nothing special, but my merc does well above average in PvP...

 

maybe it's you.

[DaPorkchop]

i am the best merc dps on my server. end of story. i still can not do what others do. even if you were top dps in a server full of the most awesome players in the world, merc would be useless. the end. believe what you want, just don't be pissed cause people won't bring you. you have nothing to offer that other classes can't do and better.

 

with that i'm done arguing with you cause you're still dreaming. also, i now have a 50 jugg so i will be shelving my useless merc.

Edited June 18, 2012 by DaPorkchop

[DaPorkchop]

i know i'm nothing special, but my merc does well above average in PvP...indiviually, only doing damage, not really doing anything someone else with more utility can do.

 

maybe it's you.

 

Ok one more. Fixed.

 

No intterupt, no healing debuff, 1 stun every min, no guard, not healing if you are top dps, not taunting, not able to sprint, no aoe stun, not doing BURST.

 

What makes snipers better is that they can BURST a healer down, hitting them for 5k kinda makes it hard to heal through. Slowly ticking someone's life away....not that hard to heal.

[Artichokey]

Ok one more. Fixed.

 

No intterupt, no healing debuff, 1 stun every min, no guard, not healing if you are top dps, not taunting, not able to sprint, no aoe stun, not doing BURST.

 

What makes snipers better is that they can BURST a healer down, hitting them for 5k kinda makes it hard to heal through. Slowly ticking someone's life away....not that hard to heal.

 

I gave this more thought. Currently we are designed to have an efficient resource system with a light yet steady damage to balance us. This works well in PVE where burst is not needed, but in PVP this proves to be a killer as we will not be able to kill a healer even without guard on them.

 

What we need is the opposite.

 

A less efficient yet high damage and high burst system to better cater to PVP. PVE will not suffer, through intelligent management of our resources and the higher damage output things will stay the same so long as you don't blindly overheat yourself. And PVP will thrive with this model as we will have all the burst we need, but with a resource we will have to manage far more carefully (think Pyro Tech heat management but with alot more damage).

 

Currently as Arsenal our resources are endless as long as we watch heat. However we can spam for days and still not take down an enemy as the damage of those abilities is just not there. I know BW probably stopped reading posts months ago, but id hope one or two of them would be browsing this and other similar threads to get an idea of the player bases feelings over BH, but as of yet nothing has been done of any consequence.