Same gender relationships clarifications?

[natashina]

I feel that all characters, 50 or not, should be allowed the one free reset after the first companion quest. After that, the player has to pay, preferably with in-game credits. If someone repeats any companion quests after a reset while they are leveling, they don't get the exp. I thought about this way of going about it due to some people wanting to change their romance options while they level. If SGRs drop and I'm on, say, my JK that's level 44, I'd like to be able to reset the companion quests and try to romance the character I would want.

 

I do think that regardless of whether a player is leveling or at 50, they should get the one free reset.

 

Edit: After chatting with my husband, he pointed out that it could be a royal pain for the devs to try to keep track of any exp a player may have gained along the way as opposed to doing it at 50. There is some pros and cons to this whole thing for sure!

 

I don't know, what does everyone else think?

Edited September 16, 2012 by natashina

[Uluain]

Let's take my character as an example: A Lvl. 37 Smuggler, who has been working up his reputation with Corso all through the story. Had he been a female character, I imagine he would long since have passed where the hook to begin an opposite-sex romantic relationship appears in the course of companion stories. For the sake of the example, we will pretend that Corso has been made eligible as a romantic companion for the same gender, and this comes about just when I have my character where I have him now in terms of level, affection, and companion missions already accomplished.

 

Now, if the conversation once patched in simply offers the conversation once it recognizes that my character is male, is at or past Level X, is at or past Y affection with Corso and has completed Corso's conversations up to point Z, registers that I have not been offered the new conversational prompt, and offers it, then it doesn't matter if I am level 50 or not, whether I have missed the OGR-trigger point or not, or any of the rest of it. I would not have to reroll, nor reset the companion conversations. the SGR availability would be wholly independent of OGR - its own discrete story arc.

 

That is how I would like to see it go in. No need to reroll, no need to re-play the character or even just all the prior companion scenes, no doubling-up on XP. And while I only have very minimal experience creating NPC dialog and with adding content to existing game builds, on a much more primitive engine on an entirely amateur scale, it does not seem to me that it would be any more difficult than adding it in any other manner.

[stuffystuffs]

Let's take my character as an example: A Lvl. 37 Smuggler, who has been working up his reputation with Corso all through the story. Had he been a female character, I imagine he would long since have passed where the hook to begin an opposite-sex romantic relationship appears in the course of companion stories. For the sake of the example, we will pretend that Corso has been made eligible as a romantic companion for the same gender, and this comes about just when I have my character where I have him now in terms of level, affection, and companion missions already accomplished.

 

Now, if the conversation once patched in simply offers the conversation once it recognizes that my character is male, is at or past Level X, is at or past Y affection with Corso and has completed Corso's conversations up to point Z, registers that I have not been offered the new conversational prompt, and offers it, then it doesn't matter if I am level 50 or not, whether I have missed the OGR-trigger point or not, or any of the rest of it. I would not have to reroll, nor reset the companion conversations. the SGR availability would be wholly independent of OGR - its own discrete story arc.

 

That is how I would like to see it go in. No need to reroll, no need to re-play the character or even just all the prior companion scenes, no doubling-up on XP. And while I only have very minimal experience creating NPC dialog and with adding content to existing game builds, on a much more primitive engine on an entirely amateur scale, it does not seem to me that it would be any more difficult than adding it in any other manner.

 

That's exactly what I would like to see as well.

 

I don't think creating separate paths will take that much effort considering:

 

1) SGRAs will only be with a few select current companions.

 

2) The possibly already worked on some of the content prior to launch but it didn't make it in (that's the word at least).

 

I also like it b/c even someone who maxed out their companion affection could take advantage (even though the SGRA conversations would play back to back and it might seem rushed vs. playing it through with the main story...but I'm willing to accept that).

[NRVNQSR]

I honestly don't think we'll see any sort of reset for the Companion conversation lines. Largely due to how other aspects of the game have been handled, when you reach level 50 with a given character you unlock that race for use with non-standard classes, but there is no way to change anything about an existing character based on such unlocks (I remade my level 50 Guardian already because I had no way to alter her appearance). That being said I would LIKE something like this to happen. It would certainly make things easier than my current strategy of "never talk to same gender companions"

[Tatile]

As much as I hate the thought, Bioware is likely to put Companion Conversation resets in the cash shop, along with in-game character re-customisations, new armour sets and the like. We won't know until Free2Play drops, but I fully expect them to milk us for all they can, no matter how noble their initial announcements have been.

[Kioma]

I see a lot of demonisation of F2P (and Bioware) about nowadays. Personally I feel it's a bit of a shame, but in some ways I guess it's not surprising.

 

Many F2P models have proven more profitable, from what I understand, than subscription models. LotRO has done extremely well with it. Generally there's a period of disruption when the game is all of a sudden free and people who've been avoiding it come to check it out - but it's no more hectic than game launch and it has more or less the same impact. A free player is no less 'legitimate' than a paying player, either; they only have access to less features. And after the rush is done the servers calm down and everything goes back to normal.

 

When you think about it logically a F2P model MUST be more profitable. Very few subscription payers will stop paying their subscriptions because they want to keep their cool stuff, and instead of non-payers being unable to play the game they'll make a little purchase here and there that the MMO company would otherwise miss out on.

 

Bioware: Austin, however, isn't giving a lot of players much of a hook to hang their faith on. People are upset at the silence, dismayed at the job cuts, angered about promises not kept. I can certainly see why players might think they'll mess up a F2P model, but I think it's somewhat premature to make predictions about it, for the better or worse.

 

But what they HAVE said is that story content will be free. That's a vital point in regards to SGRAs because there's simply nowhere else - at all - that SGRAs can fit. All romance is firmly story-based. As long as this isn't another promise made that won't be kept we can at least rest partially assured that when F2P rolls around that Pay2Gay won't be happening. We'll get SGRAs and they'll be free.

 

Quirks like companion conversation resets, well, who knows? I could see - if they implement it - the matter going both ways.

 

Realistically if they put companion conversation resets in it'll be mostly in order to make up for the fact that a portion of the population has missed out on new conversation options because we've been diligently levelling and have had faith that SGRAs are coming, despite the distinct lack of this feature that we all want. On that note I could see them issuing a companion conversation reset token to all existing characters, for sure.

 

But after that, for all new characters, why wouldn't it be a store feature? I can't see any issue with that. As long as the free companion tokens don't expire anyone with an existing character can log in even months after the change and their extant characters are covered. Their new characters will have the new conversation options and if someone screws up a conversation on a new character and wants to reset it they can drop a few Cartel Coins and do so (which is more than anyone can do right now).

 

That would cover our extant characters for free, it would mean a cheap cost to cover any mistakes on new characters, and it would mean (very importantly) that BW:A is still getting funds, and can thus continue to provide the MMO to us, the players, at a reasonable cost with excellent in-game flexibility.

[Uluain]

All of this speculation is well, all we have to do until they talk to us about how this is going to be implemented. Maybe they don't know, yet, either – apparently a lot of things regarding the cash store are still up in the air. So long as I don't have to reroll, wait for a post-50 companion, or pay for SGR through actual money or in-game currency, I'll be content. But any of those thing will disappoint me, quite possibly to the point of leaving the game.

 

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ ] No

[natashina]

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ x ] No

 

Absolutely no. I know that the mods are doing their best with the information they have, and they are doing a great job in keeping the forums civil. However, the amount of silence on the part of the devs is getting disheartening. It's one thing to keep silent about story updates, but it's another to allow this many months to go by without any sort of real sign. I do wonder what it'll take to have any sort of certainty whatsoever.

 

Maybe I'm asking too much, but even a "Hey, SGRs are coming in 1.5, so get ready," would really boost morale. I would be satisfied if they did that, and gave no other information. After over a year, there needs to be something fair more concrete that they devs will allow the mods to say at this point.

Edited September 18, 2012 by natashina

[Tatile]

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ X ] No

 

Ahahahahaha. No.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Tatile

[stuffystuffs]

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ X ] No

 

^^

 

Considering that the base feature (i.e., romance story) is already a part of the game (just 'limited' to special PCs who happen to be straight)...yeah, no.

 

I'd cut them slack if companion romance was a completely new feature waiting implementation....I'd understand the secrecy as it would be a 'cool new feature' and all that.

Edited September 17, 2012 by stuffystuffs

[Uluain]

On the unlikely chance that my own feelings in the matter are unclear...

 

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ x ] No

 

I agree that actually just waiting to roll it in with all companion romances - even if that meant waiting on all companion romances - would have been an equitable way to handle it. Having made the choices they've made, however, well, a graceful recovery would be difficult. Not even trying just looks inconsiderate and dismissive.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Uluain

[Tatile]

At the very least this will allow the team to realise we're not happy in the only way that's dead easy to understand: binary questions.

[Uluain]

If they understand binary questions, what is so hard to grasp about "are we still on track to see SGRs in game this year?" That should be an easy one.

[Tatile]

They probably forgot how they defined "this year", otherwise that is heartbreaking. There cannot be anyone in Bioware at the moment who thinks they have handled this situation anywhere close to 'adequately', it's an utter shambles and it's shambling further towards a shambolic death.

[Captain_Zone]

Also, when I read the bolded part of your post Captain, I pictured it in Machoman Randy Savage's voice.

 

Oddly enough, so did I.

[Palar]

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ ] No

 

Wait.. they've being addressing it? Huh, must have missed that amongst all the deafening silence.

 

(That's a 'no', obviously)

[BumpBump]

All of this speculation is well, all we have to do until they talk to us about how this is going to be implemented. Maybe they don't know, yet, either – apparently a lot of things regarding the cash store are still up in the air. So long as I don't have to reroll, wait for a post-50 companion, or pay for SGR through actual money or in-game currency, I'll be content. But any of those thing will disappoint me, quite possibly to the point of leaving the game.

 

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ X ] No

 

Vote with your money. Do NOT pay for anything until they treat LGB romances the same way they treat heterosexual romances, including subscriptions and microtransactions they WILL NOT listen otherwise. They lie and say their resources are all tied up with the switch to free to play BUT the new content like the Cathar is not being done by the same crew that handles romances so it is not tying up the people responsible for living up to pre-game promises. Which is it? Either their resources are tied up or they aren't. BioWare does not care about you, you are just a customer to them. Well, remind them if you are an unhappy customer and withhold your money. We are customers, not fans, so act like a customer and send it back if it's not what you asked for.

[Kioma]

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[ ] No

 

I abstain.

 

I simply can't say how they're addressing it. In all honesty I don't think anyone can (not even you, Uluain). The reason I think that is because they might be doing everything within their ability to address it, and they might be doing an extremely good job of it - or they might be doing nothing.

 

Point of fact: we don't know because they refuse to tell us.

 

If the question had been, 'Do you feel that Bioware is doing an adequate job of keeping us informed of the progression of SGRA development in SWTOR?' well, that would be something I'd feel comfortable answering (though in all honesty I don't see much point; if they can't infer from our ongoing conversations that we're mighty annoyed then they don't have the mental capacity to run a hamster in a cage, let alone an MMO).

[Kioma]

Vote with your money. Do NOT pay for anything until they treat LGB romances the same way they treat heterosexual romances, including subscriptions and microtransactions they WILL NOT listen otherwise. They lie and say their resources are all tied up with the switch to free to play BUT the new content like the Cathar is not being done by the same crew that handles romances so it is not tying up the people responsible for living up to pre-game promises. Which is it? Either their resources are tied up or they aren't. BioWare does not care about you, you are just a customer to them. Well, remind them if you are an unhappy customer and withhold your money. We are customers, not fans, so act like a customer and send it back if it's not what you asked for.

 

The problem with that is that if we stop paying subscriptions we lose forum access, and the main focal point of our voice is gone.

[Tatile]

If the question had been, 'Do you feel that Bioware is doing an adequate job of keeping us informed of the progression of SGRA development in SWTOR?' well, that would be something I'd feel comfortable answering (though in all honesty I don't see much point; if they can't infer from our ongoing conversations that we're mighty annoyed then they don't have the mental capacity to run a hamster in a cage, let alone an MMO).

 

I took it to be an all encompassing question with regards to how they update us, address our concerns (the game as it stands is heterocentric/homophobic) and how we are generally treated. I can't say I'm impressed with anything about how this (and many other things) is being handled and while it may not be the fault of the Community Team, it certainly is the fault of Bioware or EA (and I don't mean developers, I mean the middle management who make the decisions).

[BumpBump]

The problem with that is that if we stop paying subscriptions we lose forum access, and the main focal point of our voice is gone.

 

That's why they set it up so only active accounts can post. Money is the only language EA speaks and that is the only thing they listen to. That's why the delete posts that say "SGR or I quit!"

 

I can't even bear to log onto the game right now because I am so disgusted with how little they even pretend to care about this subject. They got all their media attention for it and now they have left it in the dust.

[Brunnis_G]

That's why they set it up so only active accounts can post. Money is the only language EA speaks and that is the only thing they listen to. That's why the delete posts that say "SGR or I quit!"

 

I can't even bear to log onto the game right now because I am so disgusted with how little they even pretend to care about this subject. They got all their media attention for it and now they have left it in the dust.

 

It's not content I need, but I'm gona b pretty mad if it doesnt get added soon. I'm a longtime bioware customer, I been playin there games since Baldurs Gate, n if they don't fix this n show they can keep there promises I won't b buying there next game, it's principal man, what's a company worth if it can't keep a promise to it's own fans. Especially wen it's a sensitive subject like this, not cool. Wether or not they still have my sub when free play drops will depend largly on how they deal with this. Do the right thing guys.

[Uluain]

I took it to be an all encompassing question with regards to how they update us, address our concerns (the game as it stands is heterocentric/homophobic) and how we are generally treated. I can't say I'm impressed with anything about how this (and many other things) is being handled and while it may not be the fault of the Community Team, it certainly is the fault of Bioware or EA (and I don't mean developers, I mean the middle management who make the decisions).

 

This is more or less how I meant it, to take in "is same-gender affection adequately represented in the game as it stands" as well as "are you satisfied with what has been said will be done". These are opinions we can have regardless of what may or may not be happening in the design studio – but not knowing is, of course, its own element contributing to my dissatisfaction.

[JediMB]

Quick straw poll. Do you think BioWare is doing an adequate job of addressing same-gender content in SWTOR?

 

[ ] Yes

[x] No

 

Certainly not.

 

And BioWare have gotten into a bad habit of releasing what is frankly unfinished games.

[natashina]

It's starting to get a little gloomy in here, so let's try to liven things up some.

 

I finally cracked down and started really working on my IA. Once I got used to the play style, I am finding this the most entertaining class to date! I gotta say that this thread inspired me to roll her up, grit my teeth through Hutta and finally continue her.

 

As far as Kailyo goes, I can certainly see why she's not to everyone's taste. While fun, she's more than a little unhinged and I'm not sure I would romance her in a SGR setting. I know what they say about crazy women and straightjackets, but I'd rather not take my chances.

 

Without too many spoilers, how does Vector compare?