Mezla Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 People who think that live servers are going to be better than the current PTS are delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 People who think that live servers are going to be better than the current PTS are delusional. Ooh ooh! Another quote I get to save and show off after servers are populated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feztonio Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 50-70 people on the PTS fleet but no queue pop with the LFG tool. I checked all the boxes trying to get anything to pop. Nothing. The transfers better make the servers pretty big or I expect that tool to be pretty useless. They probably should have just went with a xserver tool. cross server or bust. half-************ it with single-server seems like a silly restriction. as for server community.. there hasn't been any community (or players) on my server in weeks and weeks. there's nothing to ruin if they open up cross-server. there'd be more enjoyment since i'd actually get to do things just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 cross server or bust. half-************ it with single-server seems like a silly restriction. as for server community.. there hasn't been any community (or players) on my server in weeks and weeks. there's nothing to ruin if they open up cross-server. there'd be more enjoyment since i'd actually get to do things just sayin Because you were choosing your server with closed eyes on release, everyone did? Wow that Logik totally blows my mind Fact is, most people did select their servers smart and are happy with the game. Just a few were unlucky or just not very smart if it came to server selection. @ topic I hope BW does soon realise that catering the game to the whiners at the forum does not work. They will just never shut up, no matter what tools they get. Give them xrealm and they will cry about too hard dungeons, cmon we have all seen this at Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 aside from the obvious fact that transfers will HOPEFULLY increase population servers i beleive the point of the LFG tool is so you dont have to sit around and wait on the fleet bored out of your mind, u can do quests or run dalies ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wutru Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Same-server LFG tool would have worked at LAUNCH> Not anymore. The population is too low now, and transfers are not going to help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 aside from the obvious fact that transfers will HOPEFULLY increase population servers i beleive the point of the LFG tool is so you dont have to sit around and wait on the fleet bored out of your mind, u can do quests or run dalies ect. Yea and thats great... Problem is without a x server it will take 10x longer to find a group. By the time that group has popped i would have already outleveled the fp i wanted xp/loot from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignicity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I have always been a strong advocate for cross server queueing (pvp and pve). However, until we see the LFG tool operational on live servers, all this conjecture is exactly that. Conjecture. Edited June 9, 2012 by Ignicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothPl Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Reminds me of Rift and not being able to get a group there in first days of LFG tool If you want to do stuff with only your server, just get a premade and queup together. I'd rather take less time waiting and get instantly into group. It's what, 8 minutes for DPS in WoW right now, and insta queues for healers / tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helistin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I don't care, Bioware should have known better than this. People on the forums told them that they should have done a xserver tool. they didn't listen. Let it go live and then maybe after four more months of forum QQ they will get it right. Most likely the only reason why it isn't cross server is because it's much harder to implement. It will come when they know how to make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Because you were choosing your server with closed eyes on release, everyone did? Wow that Logik totally blows my mind Fact is, most people did select their servers smart and are happy with the game. Just a few were unlucky or just not very smart if it came to server selection. @ topic I hope BW does soon realise that catering the game to the whiners at the forum does not work. They will just never shut up, no matter what tools they get. Give them xrealm and they will cry about too hard dungeons, cmon we have all seen this at Wow. Coming from the person who constantly whined about Elitists in the WoW dungeons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amendial Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I love how people are quick to jump all over Bioware for not listening to the community on having a cross server LFG tool, but they themselves have ignored the community. I would say at best its a 50/50 split of those in favor and against the cross server LFG tool, but I wouldnt be surprised if more people oppose it than support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignicity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I love how people are quick to jump all over Bioware for not listening to the community on having a cross server LFG tool, but they themselves have ignored the community. I would say at best its a 50/50 split of those in favor and against the cross server LFG tool, but I wouldnt be surprised if more people oppose it than support it. To quote Mr Pink : Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the Bioware shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaiana Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I've always wondered how many people will never touch any lfg tool, not because they are opposed to it, but just because they group up with people they know or maybe don't want to group at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajmanPeetee Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think what's completely getting overlooked here is why exactly he sat in the queue for an hour. If it only takes 4 people to make a group and there's 70 people in fleet, in theory there would have to be atleast 10 of them queueing for the LFD, they're all probably DPS and this was the problem in WoW. I remember sitting in WoW's cross-server LFD for an hour on my Lock because there were no tanks or healer using the tool. And the problem is going to be worse here because you can only bring 2 DPS for every Tank/Healer, in WoW you could bring 3. It doesn't matter whether you have 20 people, 200 people, or 2000 people in the fleet, it doesn't matter whether it's cross server or single server or the entire game. If no one is playing a Tank or Healer, you're going to sit in the queue for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think what's completely getting overlooked here is why exactly he sat in the queue for an hour. If it only takes 4 people to make a group and there's 70 people in fleet, in theory there would have to be atleast 10 of them queueing for the LFD, they're all probably DPS and this was the problem in WoW. I remember sitting in WoW's cross-server LFD for an hour on my Lock because there were no tanks or healer using the tool. And the problem is going to be worse here because you can only bring 2 DPS for every Tank/Healer, in WoW you could bring 3. It doesn't matter whether you have 20 people, 200 people, or 2000 people in the fleet, it doesn't matter whether it's cross server or single server or the entire game. If no one is playing a Tank or Healer, you're going to sit in the queue for a very long time. And that is why SWTOR failed that early in the design phase. Once the decision was made to go with 4-man groups, the game was unrecoverable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgelling Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I think what's completely getting overlooked here is why exactly he sat in the queue for an hour. If it only takes 4 people to make a group and there's 70 people in fleet, in theory there would have to be atleast 10 of them queueing for the LFD, they're all probably DPS and this was the problem in WoW. I remember sitting in WoW's cross-server LFD for an hour on my Lock because there were no tanks or healer using the tool. And the problem is going to be worse here because you can only bring 2 DPS for every Tank/Healer, in WoW you could bring 3. It doesn't matter whether you have 20 people, 200 people, or 2000 people in the fleet, it doesn't matter whether it's cross server or single server or the entire game. If no one is playing a Tank or Healer, you're going to sit in the queue for a very long time. So why did they nerf healers in 1.2? I'm legitimately curious - why not make one of the more passive classes "OP" to encourage more players? At least they're making tanking relatively mindless in 1.3 - shouldn't that encourage FTM adoption? Although in the process they managed to alienate a lot of shadow/assassin tanks. Edited June 9, 2012 by jgelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Yep, many of us thought it was ludicrous they went same server only. We could be wrong, but I think in a few months we will suddenly hear how they have decided to go cross server LFG after all. There were more arguing against the cross server LFG then for it. Those of us that looked beyond our noses to the fact that it caused more problems then it solved know that it does little beyond filling the instant needs of those that tend to be the most troublesome when using the thing. The last time I queued for the cross server LFG with my dps on wow the wait time was 45 minutes to 2 hours for anything beyond the just released troll dungeons. A cross server tool is not the answer, and this guy's post does not support anything. It is this very type of visceral reaction and demand, based on a hysterical lack of reasoning, that supports the cross server LFG. One guy, one post, one time,and its a failure? Sampling size that of a "dead" server? This is the proof that we "need" a cross server LFG? Maybe we should wait and see what happens on live servers, when there are four times the people then this example, before we start passing out kool-aide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think what's completely getting overlooked here is why exactly he sat in the queue for an hour. If it only takes 4 people to make a group and there's 70 people in fleet, in theory there would have to be atleast 10 of them queueing for the LFD, they're all probably DPS and this was the problem in WoW. I remember sitting in WoW's cross-server LFD for an hour on my Lock because there were no tanks or healer using the tool. And the problem is going to be worse here because you can only bring 2 DPS for every Tank/Healer, in WoW you could bring 3. It doesn't matter whether you have 20 people, 200 people, or 2000 people in the fleet, it doesn't matter whether it's cross server or single server or the entire game. If no one is playing a Tank or Healer, you're going to sit in the queue for a very long time. You are misrepresenting the facts here in order to support your case. The reason that there were no tanks queuing up for randoms in wow was because of that very LFG tool and the lack of accountability of players (mostly dps) and the abysmal experience it represented. Many a post were put forth on the tanking forums, from even new tanks, that refused to do another LFG run because of what dungeon runs became. That is what we are hoping to avoid with the server wide tool by allowing for some accountability for players and therefore eliminate must of the problems caused by the lfg, with, as you've demonstrated, less then adequate results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajmanPeetee Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 There were more arguing against the cross server LFG then for it. Those of us that looked beyond our noses to the fact that it caused more problems then it solved know that it does little beyond filling the instant needs of those that tend to be the most troublesome when using the thing. The last time I queued for the cross server LFG with my dps on wow the wait time was 45 minutes to 2 hours for anything beyond the just released troll dungeons. A cross server tool is not the answer, and this guy's post does not support anything. It is this very type of visceral reaction and demand, based on a hysterical lack of reasoning, that supports the cross server LFG. One guy, one post, one time,and its a failure? Sampling size that of a "dead" server? This is the proof that we "need" a cross server LFG? Maybe we should wait and see what happens on live servers, when there are four times the people then this example, before we start passing out kool-aide. If it were to go live tomorrow, I can tell you exactly what would happen. Since the LFD tool needs 25% tanks, 25% healers, and 50% DPS from the player base to be successful, and the numbers are closer to 5% tanks, 10% healers and 85% DPS, the queues would look like this. Tank - Instant Healer - 7.5 minutes DPS - 60 minutes And that would be on the larger servers. The smaller servers may never see a tank or enough tanks to use the LFD tool the entire night. Those servers may have an infinite queue because there just may not be enough tanks to fulfill all the DPS queueing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajmanPeetee Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You are misrepresenting the facts here in order to support your case. The reason that there were no tanks queuing up for randoms in wow was because of that very LFG tool and the lack of accountability of players (mostly dps) and the abysmal experience it represented. Many a post were put forth on the tanking forums, from even new tanks, that refused to do another LFG run because of what dungeon runs became. That is what we are hoping to avoid with the server wide tool by allowing for some accountability for players and therefore eliminate must of the problems caused by the lfg, with, as you've demonstrated, less then adequate results. I am not misrepresenting anything. Group are made of 4 players, 2 DPS and 2 Tank + Healer. That means in order for the LFD tool to work half the player base has to be playing a tank or healer. Half........Half....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignicity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Yes, I've always been intrigued by the design decisions of this game. 4 Man teams consist of 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps 8 Man teams consist of 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 dps (1 off tank when needed) 16 man teams consist of 2 tanks, 4 healers, 10 dps With so much emphasis placed on the need for DPS at end game to beat enrage timers, it's no wonder there is a shortage of tanks and healers for 4 man teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) double post Edited June 9, 2012 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 If it were to go live tomorrow, I can tell you exactly what would happen. Since the LFD tool needs 25% tanks, 25% healers, and 50% DPS from the player base to be successful, and the numbers are closer to 5% tanks, 10% healers and 85% DPS, the queues would look like this. Tank - Instant Healer - 7.5 minutes DPS - 60 minutes And that would be on the larger servers. The smaller servers may never see a tank or enough tanks to use the LFD tool the entire night. Those servers may have an infinite queue because there just may not be enough tanks to fulfill all the DPS queueing. You are taking statistical assumptions and then extrapolating them based on imagined results. I can understand where you are coming from, but only for argument sake as there is no solid data to support this claim. We do not know how many tanks, healers, dps there are on any server on any given time frame, and we can't, at this time, gauge their desire. Its all speculation. I'm not questioning your intellect here, just arguing your analysis at this time. We had vast numbers on wow, yet no tanks were queuing. That would tend to counter your number's theory and point in another direction....which I'm arguing is player desire based on the quality of the event. Case in point would be myself. I would never queue for a cross server LFG, not ever. I will queue constantly for the server lfg, and I am a raid tank. My reasons are simple. Accountability of players, the occasion to meet players that I will actually see again and even interact with in the future, recruitment possibilities for my guild, the ability to sort out the negative players from those I would seek out again. These are all reasons stated as lacking for many of the tanks that spoke to us over in wow. I guess what I'm saying is that we can toss out all the statistical data that we want, but we cannot simply ignore the human element, especially in a case were such an impact will be had upon that particular element. one hundred tanks with no desire to run a dungeon as opposed to 20 tanks all with a desire to run a dungeon. The former represents greater statistics, the latter greater results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I am not misrepresenting anything. Group are made of 4 players, 2 DPS and 2 Tank + Healer. That means in order for the LFD tool to work half the player base has to be playing a tank or healer. Half........Half....... Only when playing a zero sum game....which is never the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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