The beginning of the end?

[Foxadawa]

I’m not normally one to whinge on the forums, and I’m not about to start now. However, I feel the need to let Bioware know why I’m considering leaving the game next month. Unfortunately I know there’s no quick fix to a lot of these issues, and it really is soul destroying and heart wrenching to think of those who have recently lost their jobs due to certain sales targets not being met (I assume).

 

I put my all into SWTOR, both in the long run up to the game, and the many hours and days I’ve played it. I listened to every podcast I could get my paws on, read as many articles and watched as many videos as I could. I knew that beta players were saying the game wouldn’t be as successful as people hoped, but I stuck at it, and had faith that Bioware would add enough content to keep things interesting. I built a guild with many of my friends from our huge WoW guild, and started on what I thought was an epic adventure. But now there’s only a handful of people left in the guild, they wanted to love it, but they just couldn’t wait for Bioware to get the game up to speed. So in a message to Bioware, and to get my sad thoughts off my chest – here’s what I believe are the problems....

 

1) Where’s the MMO?

a.MMO’s are about being social, or at the very least feeling part of a lively hubbub of activity, even if you’re not participating. Yet due to the very immersive single-player story experience, people don’t want to socialise when levelling. This started the whole game off on the wrong foot in terms of the usual MMO experience.

b. Grouping is a pain for many. Personally I don’t mind shouting out in general chat, but for most, and especially for people with limited play time, they need an LFG tool, or at least a way to teleport to the instance. I know this is coming in 1.3, but unfortunately it seems too late.

 

2) Lack of variety

a. Visually - Sci-fi style corridors, there’s a heck of a lot of them about, especially in flashpoints. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had a lot of “OMG that’s beautiful” moments, but they’re all outdoors, or when transitioning from a dark cave to a wonderful bright and detailed outdoor landscape. But the amount of corridors in general is just overwhelming.

 

b. All player characters are humanoid, this isn’t a massive problem, but it feels a little lazy considering there is such a variety of creatures in the Star Wars universe.

c. PvP is a little “broken”, as faction imbalance means Hutball comes up a lot, which people are sick of.

 

d. Lack of addons or proper UI modifications – I actually kinda got used to not having addons, and it was rather nice not to worry about them, plus the improvements in 1.2 were a massive help. But... the cracks started to show after a while. Little things like not being able move my debuffs separate to my target, just makes me sigh, and long to be able to fiddle with stuff more. And there’s still not a “ready check”, small things, but they all add up.

3) Not enough endgame content

a. No achievements – The “codex” system was bolted on, and whilst I’m not really an achievement go-getter, it gives people a lot to do.

 

b. No faction/reputation system – these can be grindy, but also fun, and again, give us things to do.

 

c. Only 2 operations at launch, with 1 soon after. Actually I rather like the operations, I just wish there wasn’t an “easy mode”, just as I wish that about WoW. I still cannot get it out of my head that once I’ve done it on easy mode, why would I want to do it again with one hand tied behind my back? At least make a couple of bosses only appear on hard modes, so there’s more reason to complete them.

 

4) Crafting & Gear

a. The original concept was interesting, the result is actually pretty dull, though I do get excited when my RE’s proc occasionally. This issue isn’t just with TOR, crafting in general in all MMO’s I’ve played is pretty boring.

 

b. What I did find odd is the gear system, when I piece of loot drops in WoW, I enjoy having to gem and enchant it, and run around grabbing mats and finding someone to do the enchant, it makes it feel more powerful somehow. But loot in TOR just drops pre-gemmed (kinda), which takes away some of the enjoyment, and again give us less to do.

 

Overall, I’m comparing TOR to WoW, which many think is unfair. After all WoW has been out for 6 years, and TOR only 6 months, and in fact I was in this camp shortly after launch. However, what Bioware did, and indeed openly admitted, was to create a “Me too” product. TOR wasn’t about innovating, it was about copying WoW, taking some of the better bits, and doing what they do best – a great story. And to be fair, the story is awesome. The problem creating a “Me too” product is that you have to be better than or at least on a par, with your competition. ToR lags behind WoW a lot. I’m not talking about the ton of content in terms of world and expansions, I understand that will be added over time. There is just a lack of basic functions, and variety of things to do at endgame.

 

There is no getting away from the fact that ANY MMO that comes out since WoW either has to offer something very different, or do what WoW does far better. Given the fact that WoW is so very well established, the latter is somewhat unlikely.

 

All that said, I enjoyed my time in SWTOR a lot, and I’m maybe not done with it yet. 1.2 was a great patch, the Rakghoul event was brilliant in that it was a total surprise (Surprises are rare in these days of PTR’s and such), and gave us things to do. 1.3 seems a little lacklustre, and unfortunately I don’t believe will bring people back. It’ll make it easier for people to do things, but unfortunately many players have done all they want to do. Bringing out LFG with some new content..that’d have been far better.

 

SWTOR – I love you...but I need you to mature before I can devote my time and money to you. Unfortunately, I’m not sure how long that will take

 

Foxx

Edited June 8, 2012 by Foxadawa

[Laris_Rai]

If you think there are no pets in this game you didn't do your homework.

[Foxadawa]

I stand corrected I'd forgotten about the recent additions. i've removed that point

[Dibdabs]

I’m not normally one to whinge on the forums, and I’m not about to start now. However, I feel the need to let Bioware know why I’m considering leaving the game next month....

So, don't tell US, tell THEM.

[VegaPhone]

3b valor rank is the same. But i guess you want something a bit different from the rewards

3c there are a bunch of speeders and vanity pets. Maybe not as much other MMOs, but I think there are enough since I dont go for those things, and I have heard completionists talk about all the time and money they spent on getting those things. Again, you might want to be more specific about meaningful, and what that entails. Is it a unique look, with extra and different bonuses or the method of attaining them possibly?

 

Your argument became weak here by not being specific enough. Also the lack of mmo features that you want for the future was never mentioned or wasnt clear enough. Be more specific, and use bulletin points if it makes your post too long.

Edited June 8, 2012 by VegaPhone

[Swe_Profanity]

Interesting points, but to me who really dislikes this game - there's no need to break it down with flashy colors & all.

 

This game has failed to deliver. = check

 

This game attracted alot of "oldtimers" like myself. & WoW runners = check

 

All of us was spoiled, me excpeting a 2011+ finished game. Wow players, a new horizon = check

 

None of the points BW delivered, i blame Jeff from Warhammer & DAoC, no cowboy-boots in the world will make up for your intervention in this saga.

 

Here we stand, breaking it down to balance issues & content. This game aint alone with those fights. Thing is, this game totally failed on delivering any of our expectations.

[VegaPhone]

Interesting points, but to me who really dislikes this game - there's no need to break it down with flashy colors & all.

 

This game has failed to deliver. = check

 

This game attracted alot of "oldtimers" like myself. & WoW runners = check

 

All of us was spoiled, me excpeting a 2011+ finished game. Wow players, a new horizon = check

 

None of the points BW delivered, i blame Jeff from Warhammer & DAoC, no cowboy-boots in the world will make up for your intervention in this saga.

 

Here we stand, breaking it down to balance issues & content. This game aint alone with those fights. Thing is, this game totally failed on delivering any of our expectations.

 

As a pvper they overall certainly fell short on my expecations which were reasonably set for a AAA MMO with a large budget, and long development time.

 

There might have been some bugs in OPs and FPs which were game breaking as well which lowered my enjoyment of the game.

 

However, one thing they certainly lived up to was the cinematics, VO, and alignment choice system. For an MMO, that is something they have surpassed others in, and certainly lived up to the hype they created for that area of development. However, story is not what makes an MMO. Yes its an important part, but its only a portion of what the game as a whole should be.

 

So swtor delivered in some things for sure, like companions and good A.I. with companions and fulfilling their roles to complete difficult quests or heroics. Or story. And comabt, I like the combat feel and look in swtor. For example force push, force jump, and guard by Juggs/Guards in hutt ball when on ramps feels very much like a Jedi jumping from place to place.

 

However in other things, I agree with you on that. But we are past the story poart of the game, and that is why this game feels dead or below expectations. Basically we played the single/coop part of the game, and finished the limited end game... in MMO terms or in developments terms for games in general, that means they need more time.

 

But... the development of swtor is wrong for thier future.

 

They are not releasing the right content soon enough. Open world pvp. Illum pvp as a diferent open world pvp. Large BGs. Multi player mini games. Player housing. Crafting that requires exploration or moving to places that are dangerous and might need to capture objectives to get access to resources. 3d space combat. Player made music. swoop racing and pazaak. Dynamic worlds with NPC movement, more alien races, day night cycle (easily done with a linear path of a cycle from point A-B and resets as a simulated day/night cycle since the planets are not really round to need a continuous cycle around an object.)

 

Adding more WZ, ops, races, or lvls is the expected content and is just more of the same. Thats the problem, and a lot of the content needed should be already in game as well.

Edited June 8, 2012 by VegaPhone

[Swe_Profanity]

Yep- you add it up good.

[Crash-X]

 

Adding more WZ, ops, races, or lvls is the expected content is just more of the same. Thats the problem, and a lot of the content needed should be already in game as well.

 

Yet this is what many of the people here have asked for...

 

Also along with the rated warzones, dungeon finder.

 

Also that they are working on bigger things, like big improvements to space and continuing the class stories...

[Devlonir]

Good post, though I don't agree with everything..

 

 

1a: Having done the entire game with my first char together with my girlfriend I can say that doing quests together is a lot more fun than alone. The dynamic of two chars in quest conversations adds some depth no other game has. I enjoy dual levelling more here than in other games really. Not to mention you get a reward for it (Social Points and more Experience). So really, this game motivates group levelling more than most games.

 

1b: I think this point is moot despite you saying it is 'too late' It is going to be here, very soon actually. That's like complaining that the summer of 2012 is horrible and can't become good anymore because the first 2 weeks since 21st of June had bad weather. It is coming and will change a lot. If you are gone by then, that's your problem, not the game's.

 

2a: Agree, I think this mostly comes not from lack of variety out in the world, but more from lack of variety in the places you spend most your time. Both Fleets look much too similar, almost all space ports have the same general design, same goes for orbital stations, etc.. The places you spend most your time after hitting 50 are all copy paste. This is a major mistake in world design I feel and adds a lot to that feeling of boredom many 50s get after a while. Comparison: going from Alliance to Horde you had all new major cities to explore and the general hub Orgrimmar was completely different than the Alliance one.

 

2b: Agreed here, I understand the why's but still a major loss in their part.

 

2c: About pvp balance being broken.. see my sig. About the faction imbalance, currently all warzones except Alderaan can be done against the same faction and in 1.3 so will Alderaan. So this point is kind of uninformed.

 

2d: I'm glad for no addons. Wow.. what a sigh of relief not to have to keep those up to date and all addon related drama I had every patch in other MMO's. Lack of Ready Check though.. big mistake. Also agree on a desire to do more than move around bars. Buff/Debuff tracking is high on my wish list too. But Bioware did announce the current implementation of UI customization is not the final one, so I will be patient and see what happens.

 

3a: Disagree there. I like the Codex more than the silly achievements some other games have. Your comment about it being bolted on is odd, considering the massive amount of time probably gone into just writing all the lore for it. I prefer actual achievements over things like: "kill 100 people in PVP while having this buff". And the Codex system rewards actual achievements in my eyes.

 

3b: I don't miss faction/reputation that much. But it would be a nice addition for a future patch, sure!

 

3c: only 2 operations at launch? I think that is quite a lot actually, especially considering the amount of level 50 flashpoints as well. The real problem here is that so many level 50 content was made absolete so quickly. Hardmode flashpoints were made absolete by a few nights of Operation and there was little incentive for Nightmare modes as well. Some of these things will change in 1.3 and 1.4, but the problem is still there. So really, there is enough to do.. just not enough incentive.

 

4a: Agree with dullness of general MMO crafting, this game is no exception.

 

4b: Really don't agree with this one here. Especially considering the current augment system and what will be changed for it. It is a bit more limited, but it is a unique system TOR has now and I personally like it. It needs some tweaks, like the set bonuses that were done before and the social armor changes that were announced and a few more, but I like the system so far. Personally, I disliked having to spend tons of money and time to make a new item actually better after achieving it because of gemming and enchanting. Now, you can actually start wearing new stuff as soon as you get it and it will be better.

 

All in all, a good post you made. I just don't agree with everything you wrote, though I do see your point of view in most.

[Mindsplitter]

Interesting points, but to me who really dislikes this game - there's no need to break it down with flashy colors & all.

 

This game has failed to deliver. = check

 

This game attracted alot of "oldtimers" like myself. & WoW runners = check

 

All of us was spoiled, me excpeting a 2011+ finished game. Wow players, a new horizon = check

 

None of the points BW delivered, i blame Jeff from Warhammer & DAoC, no cowboy-boots in the world will make up for your intervention in this saga.

 

Here we stand, breaking it down to balance issues & content. This game aint alone with those fights. Thing is, this game totally failed on delivering any of our expectations.

 

My subscription ends on the 18th. I don't see myself even looking back. They did some great things, but where they screwed up, they screwed up big. I also blame the warhammer team, and moreover the management that hired them. They failed in a game so lets give them a bigger game to fail at? Good job!

Edited June 8, 2012 by Mindsplitter

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

It´s all the beginning or the continuation of.. WAITING.

 

I think they´ll get it right and it was released too early, most likely thanks to EA. Another year from now it will (hopefully) be much different from what we have now.

 

Until then.. there is a lot of other nice titles to play.

I´ll be back for the "secret space project"...

[VegaPhone]

Yet this is what many of the people here have asked for...

 

Also along with the rated warzones, dungeon finder.

 

Also that they are working on bigger things, like big improvements to space and continuing the class stories...

 

People are asking for many different things. Also there over a million players, and BW would not know what people want based on the limited aspect of the game.

 

What I mean is BW is using metrics to measures players activities to see how to develop the game on what already exists, instead of making features which are fun, and everyone would enjoy becuase that is also expected content.

 

So the metrics as a measure is wrong, since their test is based on a limited study with a declining population. What I mean by that is... swtor only has WZ as anything working for pvp, but pvp is many things and includes open world pvp, seiging, player housing/guild castles, and some pve and crafting. However, the only thing that is working in swtor is WZ, and illum is broken and the rest is lacking or non existent... and therefore the metrics will based on limited and unfairly simulated situaion of showing people mostly playing wz's becasue there is not much else to do... meanwhile those people are bored because overall there is a lack of content, and feel to the swtor universe to create that great MMO feel. Something beyond the fleet at end game. The metrics that BW uses can not measure what people want due to how limited their test is. Then they have to go by request or by what they know is good and fun content.

 

Its only from opinion, or signs of people leaving that they will know something is wrong. Then they are left with a difficult problem of developing something they are unsure of that will make the game greater or be badly used for thier development. So them making more ops/wz and story is playing it safe and misusing the metrics as proof of good development.

 

A lot of people will enjoy a more dynamic feel to swtor, which they said they will improve so that's good. Open world will be improved as well. However, mini games was only mentioned as something in the future without it being anywhere near close to the future updates or expansions which is also an important feauture to me, and others.

 

So point being, their development from the beginning should have included a working open world system, a more dynamic world as a basic assurance of quality and immerisive feel, and mini games. Then the metrics will better reflect peoples habbits in the game and people will also stay longer which is more benefitial to the test to meaure people, and for the success of the game.

[amnie]

back in beta I grouped ALL THE TIME. I had zero issues finding people to group with within minutes. and for normal quests, not just heroics or if I needed help.

as soon as the game hit the live servers people willing to group magically disappeared. everyone just started whining how apparently they all needed a group finder. they didn't even give the grouping a single chance. they demanded a group finder right from the start.

 

the corridors... heh. agreed. but I actually like it. reminds me of all the corridors in... y'know.. the Star Wars movies.

 

yes, they should have worked on a way to give us non-humanoids aswell. but I also understand why they don't (so far)

a) aparently there are a lot of clipping issues and when they can't fix the problems with Twileks or Miralukans wearing a hat I don't even want to think about other species.

b) basic

c) there are more than enough studies out there that suggest the majority of MMO player still subconsciously (sp) prefer human/humanoid races/species, so given the problems caused by a+b I think for now it's smarter for them to concentrate on fixing current issues before thinking about giving the 'die hard omg actual alien races' Star Wars fans what they want

 

not sure about huttball coming up a lot, that seems like a problem from the past ever since they made all but civil war same faction. and even civil war will soon be same faction (which is actually something that is really, really bothering me, but that's a whole other story)

apart from that, yes, 'actual pvp' is pretty much broken. they are aware of that. I'm not trying to excuse anything here. I personally just hope they are aware of the problems and find a way to fix them (then again i'm afraid this can only happen on future planets as the current planets' design kind of prevent actual open world PVP)

 

I am VERY thankful about the 'lack of add-ons'. while I wouldn't mind UI-costumisation, it's not something I care about. anything else should either be client-based or simply not be allowed.

 

the 'fluff' I kiiind of agree with. I do wish there was more fuzzy stuff to grind such as actual reputation with the different planet folks (kind of like in lotro where you have to grind 'commendations' to raise your reputation and then you can buy fancy stuff like mounts or clothing or sometimes pretty good gear and of course funny titles)

 

the hard modes? well, you in essense only do these because they are ... well.. harder. BW made it pretty clear the hardmodes/nightmare are for raiding guilds, not something you will want to do with PUGs or casual groups (though I'm pretty sure they can be done like that aswell, at least EV and KP)

 

crafting? well I definitely wasn't bored with the crafting in FFXI or LOTRO and I really really really wish TOR had taken some of the mechanics of either game (mainly I love actually having to craft together with someone else like in FFXI or pimping up class specific end-game-gear with a specific crafting skill like in LOTRO)

 

 

and last but not least:

I never played WoW. I am not interested in how 'superiour' WoW is.

Edited June 8, 2012 by amnie

[metalgearyoda]

I stand corrected I'd forgotten about the recent additions. i've removed that point

 

Recent? Wrong again.

 

They were in pre launch ffs.

[Crash-X]

People are asking for many different things. Also there over a million players, and BW would not know what people want based on the limited aspect of the game.

 

What I mean is BW is using metrics to measures players activities to see how to develop the game on what already exists, instead of making features which are fun, and everyone would enjoy becuase that is also expected content.

 

So the metrics as a measure is wrong, since their test is based on a limited study with a declining population. What I mean by that is... swtor only has WZ as anything working for pvp, but pvp is many things and includes open world pvp, seiging, player housing/guild castles, and some pve and crafting. However, the only thing that is working in swtor is WZ, and illum is broken and the rest is lacking or non existent... and therefore the metrics will based on limited and unfairly simulated situaion of showing people mostly playing wz's becasue there is not much else to do... meanwhile those people are bored because overall there is a lack of content, and feel to the swtor universe to create that great MMO feel. Something beyond the fleet at end game. The metrics that BW uses can not measure what people want due to how limited their test is. Then they have to go by request or by what they know is good and fun content.

 

Its only from opinion, or signs of people leaving that they will know something is wrong. Then they are left with a difficult problem of developing something they are unsure of that will make the game greater or be badly used for thier development. So them making more ops/wz and story is playing it safe and misusing the metrics as proof of good development.

 

A lot of people will enjoy a more dynamic feel to swtor, which they said they will improve so that's good. Open world will be improved as well. However, mini games was only mentioned as something in the future without it being anywhere near close to the future updates or expansions which is also an important feauture to me, and others.

 

So point being, their development from the beginning should have included a working open world system, a more dynamic world as a basic assurance of quality and immerisive feel, and mini games. Then the metrics will better reflect peoples habbits in the game and people will also stay longer which is more benefitial to the test to meaure people, and for the success of the game.

 

But they do know this. They have mentioned Ilum several times so it's not like they are ignoring any one part of the game.

 

I think it's more that people are not getting information. We hear all this about "We have something big planned for Space." yet that's all we hear and so all we ever think about is that they are just adding more FPs OPS and whatever else is in the game.

 

But if you follow the interviews you can tell they have more planned for the game that they just aren't willing to share yet.

 

You will learn a lot about the future of this game when GW2 launches. Not that GW2 will steal subs but a lot of MMOs tend to release big info when a competitor is coming to the market. When SWTOR was coming out Rift had a patch ready to, WoW announced Pandas and Pokemon, and even STO made it's big move to F2P likely in hopes of luring some sci-fi fans over from SWTOR.

 

Me personally I think the game is on the right track. There can never be too many FPs and OPS or PVP warzones. There can never be enough companions either (and if they make each extra companion hard to get...awesome!) there can never be enough races to choose from...and more story content, I really hope they continue that and with Errickson(?) saying they wanted this to be the infinite RPG, I have faith they will continue the story until the game closes.

 

Yes the game could use a big update to open world PVP or Space...but those thing take time to make and one of the reasons they hold out saying anything about it at all is because if they say "We are planning on having your ships be able to fly through space freely." then there will be a group here saying "Wow! We can PVP in space!".

 

We'll see, in the meantime you can always unsub and come back.

[Ignicity]

Recent? Wrong again.

 

They were in pre launch ffs.

 

someone forget to take their chill pill this morning?

[VegaPhone]

But they do know this. They have mentioned Ilum several times so it's not like they are ignoring any one part of the game.

 

I think it's more that people are not getting information. We hear all this about "We have something big planned for Space." yet that's all we hear and so all we ever think about is that they are just adding more FPs OPS and whatever else is in the game.

 

But if you follow the interviews you can tell they have more planned for the game that they just aren't willing to share yet.

 

You will learn a lot about the future of this game when GW2 launches. Not that GW2 will steal subs but a lot of MMOs tend to release big info when a competitor is coming to the market. When SWTOR was coming out Rift had a patch ready to, WoW announced Pandas and Pokemon, and even STO made it's big move to F2P likely in hopes of luring some sci-fi fans over from SWTOR.

 

Me personally I think the game is on the right track. There can never be too many FPs and OPS or PVP warzones. There can never be enough companions either (and if they make each extra companion hard to get...awesome!) there can never be enough races to choose from...and more story content, I really hope they continue that and with Errickson(?) saying they wanted this to be the infinite RPG, I have faith they will continue the story until the game closes.

 

Yes the game could use a big update to open world PVP or Space...but those thing take time to make and one of the reasons they hold out saying anything about it at all is because if they say "We are planning on having your ships be able to fly through space freely." then there will be a group here saying "Wow! We can PVP in space!".

 

We'll see, in the meantime you can always unsub and come back.

 

Thats what I am thinking of doing. Giving swtor more time to develop. However, I feel by not being active in some way that I forego any sense of belonging to how the game develops. I think that is part of my reason to staying.

 

1. Its SW so i want the game to succeed.

2. Its a continuation of kotor and expecting the same mini games from that

3. I will miss out on developing feautures of the game, and trying to offer some input, which the PTS is for, but the PTS is for already developed content and not for future content which has not been developed or properly introduced.

4. Been follwing the game for a long time, and I am sad to see a big budget game with great input from many players not make it into release or after 6 months make mention of those ideas in the near future.

 

So when 1.3 comes my sub will be still be going for a while, and hopefully something in 1.3 or future plan changes my opinion before my sub runs out to only be a watcher of the forums until something big comes to the game like the lvl increase, but other content as well. Since an MMO also means being up to date with things and experiencing special events.

 

If i only come for every lvl increase, then I am treating the game like DLC for a single player game, and missing out on raghoul events. So raghoul events are fun, but not enough to justify re-subbing for only that with only ops/wzs being end game and no open world/mini games or alternative long term goals in swtor which are not gear grinds. So missing out on stuff in swtor might make me feel less inclined as well to come back which could be a reason 5 (similar to point 3), and wanting to stay so I dont miss out on anything, since I am that kind of person that missing out on those things makes me not like the game as much.

[MbaxterBeau]

It's the end of the game for you because you don't like it. I hope the perfect game is out there for you. Keep trying things and you will find something you like. Hugs OP

[Lurchy]

Nicely presented very pretty. Nothing that I haven't seen 100+ times before though in the 'Unsubscribers, tell us a few things' thread where this post actually belongs.

[Tahana]

3) Not enough endgame content[/b]

a. No achievements – The “codex” system was bolted on, and whilst I’m not really an achievement go-getter, it gives people a lot to do.

 

b. No faction/reputation system – these can be grindy, but also fun, and again, give us things to do.

 

c. Only 2 operations at launch, with 1 soon after. Actually I rather like the operations, I just wish there wasn’t an “easy mode”, just as I wish that about WoW. I still cannot get it out of my head that once I’ve done it on easy mode, why would I want to do it again with one hand tied behind my back? At least make a couple of bosses only appear on hard modes, so there’s more reason to complete them.

 

So at the title of this section you are stating that there isn't enough end game content, but within the same group you are stating that you wish they shouldn't have a whole level of end game content... What kind of oxymoron is that???

 

You state that you want a grind, but you want to eliminate one of the gear grinds? Again contradict yourself much?

 

I have also played this game since the free beta weekends. I know that it isn't perfect.. But how do you want me to take you? Seriously or as a flake?

[Blackardin]

Not enough endgame content

 

Have you completed all dailies, all FPS, all OPs including nightmare? Have all your datacrons etc. Unlocked all legacy? Fully geared?

 

I've seen people complaining about end-game content that have not even completed story Mode.

[sumuji]

Speak for yourself I'm finding myself playing with others more than any recent MMORPG. Perhaps you're suffering on a low pop server or just waiting for someone to ask you to come along instead of taking initiative. There's a ton of group cotnent in this game and I find I can get in a group for something in an acceptable timeframe when I feel the urge. Whether or not people want to do them on their alts is another thing.

 

As far as crafting and endgame content goes I can't really comment as I don't have a 50 yet, but once again TOR didn't copy WoW. This is just your typical MMORPG recipe that's been used for the last decade. There's way too many ex-WoW players looking for something not like WoW, and they're half-cocked and ready to say a game copies WoW when they don't realize due to their WoW narrow-mindness that the reason a lot of games seem like they're copying WoW is because WoW is just the same old basic MMORPG recipe that games were using before it even went live and continue to mostly release up until this day.It's just the MMORPG bread-and-butter formula and if you're truley looking for sometrhing different I don't know what to tell you except that you'll be waiting a long long time most likely.

[Blackardin]

All of us was spoiled, me excpeting a 2011+ finished game. Wow players, a new horizon = check

 

How is it their fault that you do not understand how the genre functions, did not do the research, imagined all sorts of unrealistic goals, and there became disappointed when they did not meet those goals?

 

I played Wow from day one, raided everything, enjoyed it very much. I read up on this game, understand the genre, know full well that no MMORPG has ever been released complete (or ever will be) as that would contradict the entirety of the concept. I am not disappointed at all. In fact, having alot of fun.

 

This is not their failure.

[Lenny]

I put my all into SWTOR... But now there’s only a handful of people left... they wanted to love it, but they just couldn’t wait for Bioware to get the game up to speed.

 

We are entirely too polite about this.

 

Face the music. SWTOR was a complete an utter failure. I played the hell out of it with a lot of old friends, we gave it a chance, and then another chance, and then another chance until it's dying breath. Everything about SWTOR was disappointing. Whoever designed this game had no idea what the hell they were doing. Totally incompetent, inexperienced, and neglectful of what makes an MMO tolerable.

 

Please stop white-knighting this game. It only has Star Wars to offer and anybody who isn't completely insane realizes this would have been better off as a single-player with some 2-4 player co-op option and possibly multiplayer pvp battlegrounds the way ME3 has it. But for Bioware to dive head first into the MMO market with this kind of crap is absurd, completely absurd. Our money has been wasted on a game that very realistically faces the chance of going f2p (and probably should).

 

So get real, these posts are not whining or doom-saying or even nonconstructive in the least bit. I'll tell you what was nonconstructive, though... this game, the infinite bugs within the game and the terrible response time to pretty much everything wrong within the game from beta, to pre-release, to now.

 

Quote, defend, counter-argue, and enjoy your limited transfers next week. Bioware needs to get their **** together, and these months-behind transfers won't solve the problems that caused everybody else to quit.

 

P.S. This thread's title should be renamed, because the beginning of the end was probably in January or possibly Feb.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Lenny