Varicite Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The weird thing is that although I know this I don't make a beeline for the PT. I can't prove it but it feels like the games where the enemy has a dominant PT as opposed to a dominant Marauder/Tankasin are easier to win. I think this is because Mara/Tankasin are the ones who are making the hard kils (against protected healers). A well protected healer is protected by both tank and DPS. That is, he has Guard but he also has guys killing whoever is on him. PT only have DPS, so they get killed by the healer's protective DPS. Mara/Tankasin can withstand the protective DPS while chasing down the healer. PT are certainly very good at mashing relatively low value targets, i.e. random mid tier DPS. But Mara/Tankasin aren't bad against them either, and games are never won by how fast you can melt a Sniper or Juggernaut's face. It's definitely helpful but the game is rarely won on just that. I think this bears repeating, because it's very important when choosing a class for a role. This is the exact reason that I am not using my Pyro PT for this very same role in high end play. Yes, it is a VERY good class, and it brings excellent damage. However, that's only part of the equation, as Astarica has mentioned, and you need a DPS class that can stand up to a heavy focus fire to actually put a dent in that healer. If you die before you can do that, then you are worthless as a DPS whose primary function is to negate healing. If you can't do your main job well, I don't really care what else you bring to the table, because it's not what I need from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Unless you are very skilled a sage/sorc is destroyed by a decent mara/sent. As hybrid spec we get toasted(don't stand a chance). We need to have root(severe force) to compete with melee atm. Stop being silly...You guys should be ashamed. I guess I must be very skilled then, heh. Pts are way worse for me than maras. I don't understand how you can possibly get killed by a solo mara of any spec, since you have tools to counter literally every single thing they can do. Did you read the link in my sig? . edit: after some thought, possibly, possibly a combat sent could do it. But it would take extraordinary timing. And he couldn't use leap as an opener. Edited June 19, 2012 by Superawesomerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I guess I must be very skilled then, heh. Pts are way worse for me than maras. I don't understand how you can possibly get killed by a solo mara of any spec, since you have tools to counter literally every single thing they can do. Did you read the link in my sig? . edit: after some thought, possibly, possibly a combat sent could do it. But it would take extraordinary timing. And he couldn't use leap as an opener. Are you talking about a fight where both of you are literally in the middle of nowhere? I can see a Sorc winning that some of the time. If there's anyone else involved, the Mara will just hit someone else while he's rooted. It's possible the Mara might die first but he'll definitely come out ahead in terms of who he managed to hurt/kill before he died. It's relatively easy for a Sorc to lose someone with a 4m range, though unless you plan on healing the damage done by the melee, you're sort of just passing the buck to another victim instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Are you talking about a fight where both of you are literally in the middle of nowhere? I can see a Sorc winning that some of the time. If there's anyone else involved, the Mara will just hit someone else while he's rooted. It's possible the Mara might die first but he'll definitely come out ahead in terms of who he managed to hurt/kill before he died. It's relatively easy for a Sorc to lose someone with a 4m range, though unless you plan on healing the damage done by the melee, you're sort of just passing the buck to another victim instead. No, any fight. As a healer, obviously I'm going to be on the periphery somewhere. So it's relatively easy to kb the mara somewhere where he will do no damage. Plus, if you knock him away, less chance stray. Aoe will break your root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I guess I must be very skilled then, heh. Pts are way worse for me than maras. I don't understand how you can possibly get killed by a solo mara of any spec, since you have tools to counter literally every single thing they can do. Did you read the link in my sig? . edit: after some thought, possibly, possibly a combat sent could do it. But it would take extraordinary timing. And he couldn't use leap as an opener. I guess you like professor will profess your class sucks to avoid nerfs. I don't care reality is we all know you just look dumb...without root against a decent not even skilled mara/sent we don't stand a chance. You are bad if you think sent/mara is ok the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I guess you like professor will profess your class sucks to avoid nerfs. I don't care reality is we all know you just look dumb...without root against a decent not even skilled mara/sent we don't stand a chance. You are bad if you think sent/mara is ok the way they are. Actually, you're just as bad as Walsh, except I don't even remotely agree with you. So, Gratz on being worse than Walsh, there must be some kind of award for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTREDEN Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I can't believe this thread is still going. Please restart it after 1.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Actually, you're just as bad as Walsh, except I don't even remotely agree with you. So, Gratz on being worse than Walsh, there must be some kind of award for that. Lol there is its called being you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 No, any fight. As a healer, obviously I'm going to be on the periphery somewhere. So it's relatively easy to kb the mara somewhere where he will do no damage. Plus, if you knock him away, less chance stray. Aoe will break your root. In that case the Marauder is already walking into the equivalent of 'danger zone', i.e. deep in your side and far away from his own. As a Tankasin I get smashed pretty hard when I go in deep to chase the enemy healer too. Anyone deep in enemy territory is obviously fighting at some pretty nasty disadvantage but somebody's got to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I can't believe this thread is still going. Please restart it after 1.3 From its worthless beginnings it grew into an actual reasoned debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 In that case the Marauder is already walking into the equivalent of 'danger zone', i.e. deep in your side and far away from his own. As a Tankasin I get smashed pretty hard when I go in deep to chase the enemy healer too. Anyone deep in enemy territory is obviously fighting at some pretty nasty disadvantage but somebody's got to do it. So my team will jump on him, I win either way. He attacks someone else, I dispel and heal, or yank if carnage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsalcedo Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 According to my PvP data, this nerfs my Shadow self-healing by 45%. It is also reduces our mitigation (excluding Internal/Elemental dmg) by 9%. Yet Marauders/Sentinels still get to do MORE healing than us + 3x the dps + have better survivability with insane cds + have better PvP stealth . . . Pvp stealth is 20 seconds long stop complaining. Shadows get a perma stealth and a vanish if used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsalcedo Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 The only class that was close to marauders level of overpowered in pvp was the shadow tank and thank god they are being fixed. The question is how did the sent/mara avoid the nerfbat? We all know it is coming, the only people that do not believe that it is coming is the marauder. They believe they are balanced and fine. Hell I even started a marauder and even at lvl 18 I am already abusing people with just cloak of pain having a 50% uptime. I would love to see yer leet skills at 50 with actual good gear see how good u are. Mauraders are fine if they use the cds cc run away and have a pyro buddt burn em down. Shield isnt up for that long.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastabuds Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I am sure this has been said before in the many pages and post about mara/sents but ill say it again from my pov. I have a 50 marauder and just finished lvling my sorc to 50 and now have almost full BM gear for it i have full Bm gear and 2 wh sabers for my mara so i do know something of what i am talking about. Marauder is fine the way it is, IT DOES NOT NEED A NERF. I have played against many a counselor that knew *** they were doing and they kited my butt all over the wz and there wasn't much i could do. The reason for this is they knew everything i was going to do and could simply counter it. This is why i started playing a sorcerer since i wanted to know how come they could contain me so well. Now i am doing to mara and sents what was done to me. Now granted if my cds are down and my shield as well i am screwed. But the same is true vice versa. I used to hate when i read people say that i needed to l2p and that others did as well. The sad thing is those people were right if you know *** you are doing and the mara or sent is geared the same as you i feel you have a 50/50 shot every-time least i know i do now. This is not a reply saying u suck i am great but if you really have that much problem with mara/sents you need to role one and learn it after that u will know how to deal with it. Hell i have even won a few fights against some pub sents that i know for a fact were better geared they just were not rdy for the fact i knew there class as good or better then they did. If you are sucking or losing more than you feel you should u need to look inside yourself and ask am i doing all i can before you start qqing on a forum no wonder why BW doesn't listen to most of us. Edited June 20, 2012 by rastabuds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordKursk Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Maras/Sents do not need a nerf End of Discussion..... If I can easily kill a marauder on my commando and my jedi sage there is no reason the entire QQing population can't do it either. Is it the fact that you have to actually try instead of sitting back and pressing buttons like the below quote: "Oh another marauder I guess I'll give up trying to fight them until they get a nerf they don't need but I need because I shouldn't have to try to be good at PvP to kill a mara/sent that's just asking to much of me..." The above quote is to the QQing population. AND I DO NOT HAVE A MARAUDER OR SENTINEL! So no I am in no way bias to those classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Maras/Sents do not need a nerf End of Discussion..... Oh crap, he said end of discussion... I guess that's it boys, pack it up and go home. Nothing further to see here. I guess there's no further room for debate, and everyone has a warm fuzzy feeling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Oh crap, he said end of discussion... I guess that's it boys, pack it up and go home. Nothing further to see here. I guess there's no further room for debate, and everyone has a warm fuzzy feeling now. I think that warm fuzzy feeling yer feeling is me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustybucket_ Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Nerf Powertechs and Vanguards.....nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarfunkz Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 mara/sent is fine, except for the dots from anni/watchman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Nerf stunlocking ops more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Nerf stunlocking ops more like. They will, the relic change is going to affect stunlockers more than the FOTMS, which are guilty for the TTK after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebornlos Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 If you want to be the only one in the thread that doesn't understand basic PvP meta, feel free. It's like asking for scientific data proving the sky is blue. Just step outside and look up. In the legal world, it's often called "established fact." PvP matchups are essentially a race at heart. Inherently, the one that runs the fastest, wins. The problem is, no one runs the same speed for the whole race. Burst specs are sprinters that only go fast for brief periods. Sustained damage specs are more like endurance runners. When the races transition to long distances (long ttk's) then that favors the endurance runners (sustained damage specs like Annihilation/Watchman.) Scientific data actually proves that the sky is not blue but violet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 UGLYMRJ is a noob for not using aoe mezzz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaya Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 The more i play the game the less op mara's seem (yes i play one, i play more or less every spec). The biggest nerf you could give watchman is a decent ui for dispels - you stop deadly saber you stop most of his damage and most of his healing, stop master strike and you stop another massive chunk of damage, neither are difficult to work around. Throw a slow on him with the dispels and they're pretty irrelevant really. They're pretty easy to shutdown. This is generally considered the best spec. Combat, get him off your back when armor pen is up (learn to recognise the buff) and again, not THAT big a deal. They'll still do damage but its pretty much operative level sustained outside this. Master strike tends to get used during the armor pen buff so you counter one you counter the other. They have much better group utility due to roots which are great for setting up focus fire and peels but really it seems no one has any particular issue with the spec. Maybe im wrong but they certainly aren't a popular spec on my server. Focus, dont play it often. Focus Guardian seems better to me. I have no opinion on them really other than they dont give me much trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) UGLYMRJ is a noob for not using aoe mezzz! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I was waiting for this... I think I assumed it didn't work for PvP like pummel strike. NEVER USE IT!!! Edited June 21, 2012 by UGLYMRJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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