1.3 Arsenal Changes -So far-

[Enkaizu]

Before I begin, I know these are a work in progress and I'm not trying to make this a QQ thread. I want Bioware to see this in the hopes that their design choice, at least in what they say of making Merc damage better, is not derailed. I want Merc dps to be higher and their survivability to be better in pvp. Please do not post if you just want to start a flame war.

 

 

Terminal Velocity has been redesigned. While High-Velocity Gas Cylinder is active, there is a 50% chance per point to vent 1 Heat every 6 seconds.

After confirmation this is a mistype and it is 8 heat every 6 seconds versus the current 8 heat on crit with a 3s internal CD. Good change

 

 

Pyrotech (Mercenary)

Advanced Targeting has been redesigned and now gives Unload and Rail Shot 10% of armor penetration per point.

The only annoyance I find is with this change losing 3% accuracy but overall a dps gain.

 

Light 'Em Up now additionally grants an extra stack of Tracer Lock and Power Barrier, if applicable, with each Tracer Missile fired.

 

I like this one, a lot. This means we get our damage reduction up faster and can pull off Rail Shots faster with 5 stacks. The only issue I have with it is that I never had 5 stacks until Rail Shots CD was just about up, but this will account for seconds shaved off of re-using a 5stack RS. Good job Bioware on this one.

 

Custom Enviro Suit now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).

 

Seeing as how every other class that had this talent also got the same nerf, this one I am indifferent on.

 

I will try and keep this updated and as accurate as possible for the community and devs, should they choose to read this.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Enkaizu

[Areaz]

Ok guys, seriously, READ THE PATCH NOTES. THERE IS NO CHANGE TO HVGC'S ARMOR PEN. ALL THEY ARE CHANGING IS THE WAY TERMINAL VELOCITY, A TALENT IN THE ARSENAL TREE, WORKS.

 

Sorry for the caps, but all the people flipping **** for no reason need to chillax.

[rotatorkuf]

Before I begin, I know these are a work in progress and I'm not trying to make this a QQ thread. I want Bioware to see this in the hopes that their design choice, at least in what they say of making Merc damage better, is not derailed. I want Merc dps to be higher and their survivability to be better in pvp. Please do not post if you just want to start a flame war.

 

 

Terminal Velocity has been redesigned. While High-Velocity Gas Cylinder is active, there is a 50% chance per point to vent 1 Heat every 6 seconds.

 

Currently Arsenal spec is very efficient at venting heat all on it's own and only gets easier as you increase your crit%. The problem I see with this change is that in order to get extra heat venting, you chose to forgo 35% passive armor penetration (a considerable nerf). Seeing as how the heat venting is for lack of a better word, unnecessary, this is only going to drop Arsenal Merc dps even lower. To compensate for this change we get ....

 

Pyrotech (Mercenary)

Advanced Targeting has been redesigned and now gives Unload and Rail Shot 10% of armor penetration per point.

 

This talent excited me at first until I gave it some thought. We lost 35% armor penetration to all of our attacks as Arsenal and we regain 30% armor pen to only two of our abilities, granted Unload is a high priority ability, it's a net loss. Also, this talent currently grants us 3% accuracy. While this is an annoyance to some, I use the 3% accuracy talent in order to stat Power/Crit/Surge higher than I normally could and losing this talent will cause another dps loss from stats.

 

I realize that change was more than likely targetted towards Pyro, but we'll leave Pyro discussion for another thread.

 

Light 'Em Up now additionally grants an extra stack of Tracer Lock and Power Barrier, if applicable, with each Tracer Missile fired.

 

Now this one is ok, IF I am understanding this one correctly. I assume it means that if the target is not yet at 5 stacks, the target will receive an additional Tracer Lock (granting 3 total, up from 2) per Tracer Missile. I like this change, it's not a huge upgrade but at least it's quality of life change for the better. Thank you Bioware, but please focus on the more important issues concerning Arsenal.

 

Custom Enviro Suit now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).

 

Seeing as how every other class that had this talent also got the same nerf, this one I am indifferent on.

 

I will try and keep this updated and as accurate as possible for the community and devs, should they choose to read this.

 

dude what are you talking about with losing armor pen on arsenal?

 

afaik, they're not changing high-velocity gas cylinder, just the skill that's attached to it (from venting heat on crits, to venting heat over time)

 

high-velocity still has the 35% armor pen

Edited June 6, 2012 by rotatorkuf

[Enkaizu]

Whoops I misread that, my bad. Note to self stop posting just after waking up. I will edit my post.

[rotatorkuf]

Ok guys, seriously, READ THE PATCH NOTES. THERE IS NO CHANGE TO HVGC'S ARMOR PEN. ALL THEY ARE CHANGING IS THE WAY TERMINAL VELOCITY, A TALENT IN THE ARSENAL TREE, WORKS.

 

Sorry for the caps, but all the people flipping **** for no reason need to chillax.

 

exactly!

[mzhou]

you shouldn't even have the 3% accuracy in the first place. If you are full/near-full campaign then you will have points in critical reactions and system calibrations in order to max/min (this has been proven to give you more damage). It breaks down to a trade-off between 4% alacrity or 30% armor penetration. The armor penetration is likely to result in a lot more damage but I guess time will tell.

[Enkaizu]

you shouldn't even have the 3% accuracy in the first place. If you are full/near-full campaign then you will have points in critical reactions and system calibrations in order to max/min (this has been proven to give you more damage). It breaks down to a trade-off between 4% alacrity or 30% armor penetration. The armor penetration is likely to result in a lot more damage but I guess time will tell.

 

I am full campaign and play Pyro in pve. I didn't take the alacrity before hand because it messed up the synergy of the heat regen on crits via misplacing the 3s internal CD vs the cast time.

 

Could you site the source in which it says alacrity was proven to be more damage for arsenal?

[mzhou]

for pyro it might be different but arsenal mercs using simulationcraft see an improvement in dps when forgoing the 2% accuracy for 4% alacrity

[Aerro]

Before I begin, I know these are a work in progress and I'm not trying to make this a QQ thread. I want Bioware to see this in the hopes that their design choice, at least in what they say of making Merc damage better, is not derailed. I want Merc dps to be higher and their survivability to be better in pvp. Please do not post if you just want to start a flame war.

 

 

Terminal Velocity has been redesigned. While High-Velocity Gas Cylinder is active, there is a 50% chance per point to vent 1 Heat every 6 seconds.

After confirmation this is a mistype and it is 8 heat every 6 seconds versus the current 8 heat on crit with a 3s internal CD. Good change.

 

Very good change, you are correct. With the less dependence on crit, we can all focus on more power. I know I can drop down to 35% crit and get back up to nearly 900 power.

 

 

Pyrotech (Mercenary)

Advanced Targeting has been redesigned and now gives Unload and Rail Shot 10% of armor penetration per point.

The only annoyance I find is with this change losing 3% accuracy but overall a dps gain.

 

Losing the 3% accuracy should not be an issue, BECAUSE we were only putting 1 point into it anyways with the Alacrity build. If you were not using that build, you were doing it wrong (unless your gear is questing gear).

 

Light 'Em Up now additionally grants an extra stack of Tracer Lock and Power Barrier, if applicable, with each Tracer Missile fired.

 

I like this one, a lot. This means we get our damage reduction up faster and can pull off Rail Shots faster with 5 stacks. The only issue I have with it is that I never had 5 stacks until Rail Shots CD was just about up, but this will account for seconds shaved off of re-using a 5stack RS. Good job Bioware on this one.

 

You did not have 5 stacks because I am assuming you did not use the Alacrity build, which increased your APM (attack per minute) substantially.

 

Custom Enviro Suit now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).

 

Seeing as how every other class that had this talent also got the same nerf, this one I am indifferent on.

 

This talent wasn't necessary, since we did not get focused on for healing.

 

I will try and keep this updated and as accurate as possible for the community and devs, should they choose to read this.

 

I quoted your message and put MY THOUGHTS under your comments.

[Aerro]

for pyro it might be different but arsenal mercs using simulationcraft see an improvement in dps when forgoing the 2% accuracy for 4% alacrity

 

For the record: Simulation craft sucks.

[Raekor]

900 Power?

 

Interesting. I'm coming up (buffed with no stim) with 757 power, 101.34% accuracy, 35.09% crit, and 73.64% surge. Is there a power/crit enhancement or BH ear piece I haven't seen. Even then surge would probably drop too low.

 

Unless it is still because I am not counting on the extra 198 aim to boost crit so the one crit/surge enhancement can be switched to another power/surge one. Still not up to 900 though, even with a stim added.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Raekor

[Gyronamics]

For anyone interested 8 heat every 6 seconds vs current system....

 

Lets say you have 35% crit rate

+1% tech crit from cunning

+15% from set bonus

 

= 51% crit rate on tracer

 

So in 6 seconds you have two chances to lose 8 heat = (100*(1-(49*49))) = 75.999% chance to lose 16 heat

 

So the current system is: 12.15984 heat every 6 seconds.

The requirement is to be casting non-stop which requires you to root yourself.

 

The 1.3 system is: 8 heat every 6 seconds.

The requirement for that is to do whatever, spam tracer, run about, still 8 heat per 6 seconds.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Quantemoq]

don't forget though that your calculation only works for a guy constantly spaming tm and not using railshot, hsm, dfa, cc, knockback. because those have no chance of venting heat .

 

for people using their full rotation the chances of venting based on crit 16 heat in 6 sec might be a lot lower

 

(not leaving out, that you won't restore heat while interupted nor in cc)

 

also the crit based heat vent is much less consisstant. so you cannot rely on getting back your heat and are either forced to take a risk in getting slightly above 40 heat ,or you go the save route but might loose dps in putting in one unecessary rapid fire

Edited June 7, 2012 by Quantemoq

[Areaz]

Yeah after playing with it some on the PTR, I like the new version better than the old one.

[cortea]

For the record: Simulation craft sucks.

 

It's actually near perfect for Mercs. But if you have evidence of a calculation being wrong by all means let us know and it'll be fixed quick smart.

 

If you don't have evidence, then, well, i'm really not sure what to say. Enjoy.

 

PS: ptr changes will be in the 120-3 release this weekend. Depending on how arpen stacking actually works, it's looking like either a small dps decrease, or a small increase.

Edited June 9, 2012 by cortea

[Swaggz]

It's actually near perfect for Mercs. But if you have evidence of a calculation being wrong by all means let us know and it'll be fixed quick smart.

 

If you don't have evidence, then, well, i'm really not sure what to say. Enjoy.

 

PS: ptr changes will be in the 120-3 release this weekend. Depending on how arpen stacking actually works, it's looking like either a small dps decrease, or a small increase.

 

So pretty much it'll be a boost for Pyro in PvP and a toss up overall for Arsenal?

[cortea]

So pretty much it'll be a boost for Pyro in PvP and a toss up overall for Arsenal?

 

Pyro isn't implemented in the sim, except the base talents used by Arsenal. So no thoughts there.

 

It looks to be just a quality of life change, removing some of the RNG. The terminal velocity change is a slight dps loss, but smooths out the spikiness. Light'em up extra stack is a small dps gain. And the arpen change to advanced targetting depends on how well the raid already has arpen stacked.

 

I vaguely remember devs promising Arsenal a buff to make up for the bugfix dps loss to HSM. I don't see it here yet.

 

edit: we just did a new release for snipers/gunslingers. PTR changes for Merc Arsenal included.

Edited June 9, 2012 by cortea

[Swaggz]

I vaguely remember devs promising Arsenal a buff to make up for the bugfix dps loss to HSM. I don't see it here yet.

 

edit: we just did a new release for snipers/gunslingers. PTR changes for Merc Arsenal included.

 

I remember seeing that as well, mainly along the resource management aspect. Now the thing I don't understand is if they knew the bugfix pretty much killed HSM, wouldn't fixing HSM make more sense? I mean the 30% armor pen is nice, but it seems like BW is avoiding the main problem that they caused initially.

[MisterWiseGuy]

I'm not mad bioware, just disappointed.

 

So far you have made this game a horrible experience for mercenary dps.

 

Cross classes were supposed to be designed as useful for both PVE and PVP.

 

But ever since you changed the armoring on the eliminator set, you've basically made it a chore for Arsenal mercenaries to get geared, since we have to take the mods off a pyrotech dps set to do any real damage. The eliminator set is loaded with way too much accuracy and endurance. I mean hitting the target is important, but i would like to hit the target for some damage, and also since arsenal is supposed to be a dps skill tree, we aren't going to tank anything, so there is no reason to have 20K plus hp. Also, the rapid shots venting 8 heat 50 percent of the time, while useful, is completely unnecessary for end game if you are doing your rotation properly.

 

Also, the skills for close range damage are insufficient. The flamethrower and uppercut are just not enough to finish off the overpowered melee classes, especially since they have interrupts and we do not.

 

So in short: Give us our damage back, get a better stun dart, and stop listening to melee fans who re roll as bounty hunters telling you they know everything. Because clearly they don't.

[ManiacalShen]

Wait, what's this about an alacrity build? I thought that just made us arsenals overheat that much faster and wasn't worth it. At least, that used to be the word on the street.

 

Also, I like the look of these changes. Can't wait.

[Enkaizu]

Wait, what's this about an alacrity build? I thought that just made us arsenals overheat that much faster and wasn't worth it. At least, that used to be the word on the street.

 

Also, I like the look of these changes. Can't wait.

 

As far as current 1.2 goes, it was a slight dps increase vs using the accuracy talent (and less acc on gear).

 

At 1.3, the talent that was restricted by critting on an internal CD is being changed so alacrity will actually be a decent stat in 1.3. Still not as useful as Power though.

[Choffware]

Just so I understand... am I correct in saying that the simulation craft guys believe the new changes in 1.3 are only a marginal gain to arsenal dps

[cortea]

Just so I understand... am I correct in saying that the simulation craft guys believe the new changes in 1.3 are only a marginal gain to arsenal dps

 

Yep.

 

In the sim (you can try it yourself by enabling PTR on the general tab) It's a marginal gain if arpen doesn't stack to 100% in raids, meaning personal arpen additions like this provide extra gain. If they do stack to 100% then in those circumstances it's a marginal dps loss.

 

That's in line with what the devs say about the change here http://www.swtor.com/blog/class-changes-and-balance-game-update-1.3

 

It's a quality of life change to remove spikeyness and get things going more quickly.

 

Arpen debuffs are a bit of a killer for balance right now, especially if it does stack. At some point devs said they were going to fix it in one of those audio sessions, but we haven't heard about it since. It's part of the reason maras and sages are pullnig ahead so much in rankings, and why you don't see bounty hunters or operatives up there as well (because any value from HVGS would be negated, and acid blade for operatives).

Edited June 12, 2012 by cortea

[Swaggz]

Yep.

 

In the sim (you can try it yourself by enabling PTR on the general tab) It's a marginal gain if arpen doesn't stack to 100% in raids, meaning personal arpen additions like this provide extra gain. If they do stack to 100% then in those circumstances it's a marginal dps loss.

 

That's in line with what the devs say about the change here http://www.swtor.com/blog/class-changes-and-balance-game-update-1.3

 

It's a quality of life change to remove spikeyness and get things going more quickly.

 

Arpen debuffs are a bit of a killer for balance right now, especially if it does stack. At some point devs said they were going to fix it in one of those audio sessions, but we haven't heard about it since. It's part of the reason maras and sages are pullnig ahead so much in rankings, and why you don't see bounty hunters or operatives up there as well (because any value from HVGS would be negated, and acid blade for operatives).

 

My question is why couldn't they fix Heat Sigs and HSM on top of these other changes.?.?.?

[Choffware]

because in their mind it's fixed. If you read the dev posts none of them believe there is a current issue with HSM. People presented data based on target dummy practice and the devs "explained" how it's working as intended. five heat sigs only gives HSM a slight damage increase. I just fire it when ever it's up. Edited June 13, 2012 by Choffware