More Gunnery nerfs on Test...

[DarthLos]

Gunnery

Cell Charger has been redesigned. While Armor-Piercing Cell is active, there is a 50% chance to generate 1 Energy Cell every 6 seconds.

- It is currently every 3 seconds to generate 1 Energy cell.

 

Gravity Surge now additionally grants an extra stack of Charged Barrel and Charged Barrier, if applicable, with each Grav Round fired.

- This is an extra stacking of Charged Barrel per Grav Round completed, so will stack 2 Charged Barrel per Grav Round instead of just one. Helps a little...

 

Heavy Trooper now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).

- Not ground breaking but still...

 

Of course things can always change on test, I doubt drastically though...

Edited June 6, 2012 by DarthLos

[Dakia]

I was really hoping for . . . . more. These changes are pretty underwhelming.

 

Hopefully, some more things come along during the course of the PTS.

[BobaFaceroll]

Gunnery

Cell Charger has been redesigned. While Armor-Piercing Cell is active, there is a 50% chance to generate 1 Energy Cell every 6 seconds.

- It is currently every 3 seconds to generate 1 Energy cell.

 

Gravity Surge now additionally grants an extra stack of Charged Barrel and Charged Barrier, if applicable, with each Grav Round fired.

- This is an extra stacking of Charged Barrel per Grav Round completed, so will stack 2 Charged Barrel per Grav Round instead of just one. Helps a little...

 

Heavy Trooper now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).

- Not ground breaking but still...

 

Of course things can always change on test, I doubt drastically though...

 

1) There's a dev blog about the class changes. In the blog the change to Cell Charger reads differently, like it works out to be a 100% chance to regen ammo/vent heat every 6 seconds. I suspect the patch notes are merely misleading and that it's still a 2 point trait, and that you can get 100% ammo regen every 6 seconds. This should be a net increase and not a nerf to ammo regen.

 

2) Double stacking of buffs so you have to do fewer Grav Rounds. This makes me happy. Buff.

 

3) Not too surprising. This is an adjustment for PvP (IMO) as an extra 9% incoming healing is pretty huge. Nerf, but it won't hurt anyone in PvE.

 

There's also a large buff to both Gunnery and Assault in the form of the chages to Target Lock. Adding 10%/20%/30% armor penetration to Full Auto and HIB is pretty sexy.

[Tiber_Septim]

And this is the final nail in the coffin.. Canceled sub.

 

It's not an increase, it's a decrease for any decently geared commando (that can crit once every three seconds) during combat. If you're out of combat, you reload anyway. It's practically half the value now.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Tiber_Septim

[NoFishing]

Gunnery

Cell Charger has been redesigned. While Armor-Piercing Cell is active, there is a 50% chance to generate 1 Energy Cell every 6 seconds.

- It is currently every 3 seconds to generate 1 Energy cell.

 

You missed the "per point" part. With 2 points, this is a straight-up boost to our ammo regen of 1 cell every 6 seconds, vs a generate 1 cell if we get a critical hit. So this is a buff, not a nerf.

 

Gravity Surge now additionally grants an extra stack of Charged Barrel and Charged Barrier, if applicable, with each Grav Round fired.

- This is an extra stacking of Charged Barrel per Grav Round completed, so will stack 2 Charged Barrel per Grav Round instead of just one. Helps a little...

 

Heavy Trooper now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).

- Not ground breaking but still...

 

Of course things can always change on test, I doubt drastically though...

 

The biggest problem I have with these changes is it really makes assault much worse than gunnery by comparison. Target Lock granting an extra 30% armor penetration for FA and HiB is in easy reach of gunnery at the base of the assault tree, and since gunnery gets frequent of CoF procs with extra damage, it is even more useful for gunnery than assault. These changes should make gunnery even stronger on DPS. And getting 5 charged barrier and charged barrel stacks easier, there just isn't anything in assault that compares.

 

I like the mobility and feel of assault, but with these changes, it really seems like an even weaker tree for a commando.

[MrSIlverSurfing]

Target lock could actually be a nerf to burst? 30% increase in crit damage is huge burst IMO. I'm curious how this will play out.

[NoFishing]

Target lock could actually be a nerf to burst? 30% increase in crit damage is huge burst IMO. I'm curious how this will play out.

 

I think you confused target lock and deadly cannon. Target lock currently grants 1% accuracy per point.

[RangerBeo]

And this is the final nail in the coffin.. Canceled sub.

 

It's not an increase, it's a decrease for any decently geared commando (that can crit once every three seconds) during combat. If you're out of combat, you reload anyway. It's practically half the value now.

 

You already fully tested this on the PTS and decided to unsub? wow

[DarthLos]

You missed the "per point" part. With 2 points, this is a straight-up boost to our ammo regen of 1 cell every 6 seconds, vs a generate 1 cell if we get a critical hit. So this is a buff, not a nerf.

 

Maybe I did read it wrong. So what your saying is you can stand there with your Armor Piercing buff on not pressing any skills and will regen an extra 2 ammo per 6 seconds?

[BobaFaceroll]

Maybe I did read it wrong. So what your saying is you can stand there with your Armor Piercing buff on not pressing any skills and will regen an extra 2 ammo per 6 seconds?

 

I know it's not well worded so I have to guess until it gets clarified. They way I read it though is just like Cell Generator for Vanguards.

 

2 point talent

1 Point - 50% chance to get 1 ammo every 6 seconds with the right cell active

2 Points - 100% chance to get 1 ammo every 6 seconds with the right cell active

 

This should be a positive change for ammo when you look at an entire fight. Currently Cell Charger won't regen you any ammo if you aren't constantly using rounds or FA. I'll take a constant ammo regen that isn't subject to the RNG, and works while I'm moving or if I have to stop to do something else (like spot heal).

[Delaoron]

Better test it for yourself. I didnt have to use Hammer Shot a single time. No stim active, no consular buff and less stats cause my gear lost its augment slots.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/47059

[NoFishing]

Maybe I did read it wrong. So what your saying is you can stand there with your Armor Piercing buff on not pressing any skills and will regen an extra 2 ammo per 6 seconds?

 

No, not what I'm saying. With the old method, it depended upon whether we got a crit or not, and we had a 0% chance of that extra regen for 3 seconds afterwards. So, on average, assuming raid buffed you have a 38% crit chance, and using grav round, CB, demo round, or HiB, you have an average of getting that proc every 5.4 seconds. Full auto works out better, since it hits 3 times over 3 seconds, giving an average of every 4.6 seconds (ignoring the CD on FA). Hammer shot is the best, essentially guaranteeing a crit occurs, so you can regen an extra ammo every 3.6 seconds. But of course HS damage is quite low, so we'd like to avoid it as much as we can.

 

With this change, no matter what we use, or even not using any abilities, we regen one extra ammo every 6 seconds. It is more consistent, and should resolve the "streaky" problem that BW referred to.

 

EDIT: I failed to explain why I think this is a buff, even if it occurs less frequently on average than the old system. The effect of our variable regen is that if we miss a crit/proc or two in a row is not made up by averaging. We want to stay in the max regen range, and if we don't get that proc for 7.5 or 9.0 seconds, we can burn ourselves quite easily into the lower ranges. Even if the next two procs occur at exactly 3.0s intervals, we will still have lost ammo on average. And if we had to go to HS to get those procs, we will have lost DPS as well.

Edited June 6, 2012 by NoFishing

[Jherad]

I've run some WZs on PTS, and the ammo change is nice. I'm having to use hammer shot a lot less now to maintain good ammo.

 

I feel squishier, but that's partly because they removed all my augment slots (and I think the slight nerf to heavy trooper hurt a little), and partly down to a lot more dedicated PvPers running WZs on PTS at the mo.

 

I'm also pulling some very low total damage numbers at the end - but again, this may be down to better competition, and general changes (eg. You can no longer use on-use relics or adrenals in WZs)

Edited June 6, 2012 by Jherad

[TeganKing]

Gunnery

Cell Charger has been redesigned. While Armor-Piercing Cell is active, there is a 50% chance to generate 1 Energy Cell every 6 seconds.

- It is currently every 3 seconds to generate 1 Energy cell.

 

Gravity Surge now additionally grants an extra stack of Charged Barrel and Charged Barrier, if applicable, with each Grav Round fired.

- This is an extra stacking of Charged Barrel per Grav Round completed, so will stack 2 Charged Barrel per Grav Round instead of just one. Helps a little...

 

Heavy Trooper now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).

- Not ground breaking but still...

 

Of course things can always change on test, I doubt drastically though...

 

Cell Charger/Terminal Velocity has been redesigned to passively restore 1 energy cell/vent 8 heat every 6 seconds.

 

The new note says its now passive not 50% chance

[Daecollo]

Does it still require a stance?

[Freeborne]

And this is the final nail in the coffin.. Canceled sub.

 

It's not an increase, it's a decrease for any decently geared commando (that can crit once every three seconds) during combat. If you're out of combat, you reload anyway. It's practically half the value now.

 

I'm not quite at the "cancelled sub" point yet, but I agree about this:

 

This change is a buff to undergeared commandos, but a nerf to well geared commandos. With set bonuses you can easily regenerate 2 ammo every six seconds using Grav Round. Right now my Grav Round Crit is over 50%.

[pureeffinmetal]

Cell Charger/Terminal Velocity has been redesigned to passively restore 1 energy cell/vent 8 heat every 6 seconds.

 

The new note says its now passive not 50% chance

 

Its a 2 point talent.

 

1 point -50% chance

 

2 points - 100%.

[oaceen]

3) Not too surprising. This is an adjustment for PvP (IMO) as an extra 9% incoming healing is pretty huge. Nerf, but it won't hurt anyone in PvE.

 

it's only a 2-point talent, so it's 6%

 

that said, nerfing it to 4% total would be fine imo. 1% end and 1% inc healing... why even bother with this talent? it's now as use(ful/less) as Advanced Tech, which is a 1st teir talent.

 

Hammer shot is the best, essentially guaranteeing a crit occurs, so you can regen an extra ammo every 3.6 seconds. .

 

i thought it was only 'rounds' and full auto? does hammer shot actually give ammo back on crits right now on live?

 

This change is a buff to undergeared commandos, but a nerf to well geared commandos. With set bonuses you can easily regenerate 2 ammo every six seconds using Grav Round. Right now my Grav Round Crit is over 50%.

 

i'm basically in the same boat, but i agree with NoFishing. it's a more consistent form of ammo regen, so we can set up a reliable rotation that doesn't have to rely on procs, and works even if you're not firing the short list of applicable attacks that give you ammo (basically less of a need to spam grav round)

 

 

 

I'm excited about the buff to target lock and gravity surge.

i do hope they do something about Weapon Calibrations and give us a reliable Plasma Cell proc or something for assault as well though

 

 

something odd from the notes:

Now Gravity Surge/Light ‘Em Up simultaneously increases the number of stacks built by each buff tied to Grav Round/Tracer Missile.

i'm guessing they don't consider Charged Barrier in this (maybe because it also builds on charged bolts?)

Edited June 6, 2012 by oaceen

[NoFishing]

i thought it was only 'rounds' and full auto? does hammer shot actually give ammo back on crits right now on live?

 

Hmm, I don't actually know for certain. Guess it is something to test with a combat log on live.

[Luceon]

The notes have been (and because the patch is still only on PTS) and will be added upon up until 1.3 is finished on PTS and is shipped live. So to follow by the notes right now is foolish, especially if you are going to believe it is going to absolutely just be that little bit, or it may not be removed/altered by the time they release it live. BW has stated many times that the patch notes are not always reliable that are posted for PTS. Yes they give an idea but no one should jump ship yet. Edited June 6, 2012 by Luceon

[BobaFaceroll]

Currently you can't regen amy ammo with Cell Charger if you're moving. Can't shoot most of the things that trigger Cel Charger, can't crit, don't get extra ammo. You don't get extra ammo back if you're using skills besides what triggers Cell Charger either. I like the change. If I know I'm going to have to move soon I can empty my ammo a little more since I know I'll get some back every 6 seconds, no matter what, while I'm moving around. If I have to throw a spot heal I'll still regen extra ammo. I won't have to worry about going on a cold streak of no crits either, which can still happen even with good gear. Yay statistics!

 

I like the change.

[Delaoron]

i thought it was only 'rounds' and full auto? does hammer shot actually give ammo back on crits right now on live?

Nope, and not even Full Auto, cause it's bugged. Atm it's only Grav Round and Demolition Round. So the change is a good one for sure.

[ArchangelLBC]

I would have much preferred they fixed it so Full Auto proc'd the ammo regen appropriately. Barring that I would have like Cell Charger to give it's ammo regen every three seconds so it matches the current max possible regen. As it stands I have a 65% crit chance on grav round when raid buffed which means that most of the time I have no problem getting my 1 ammo every three seconds. There is a point that yes you now get your ammo regen when moving, but if I am moving a lot in a fight ammo isn't an issue. Be honest, have any of you EVER had ammo issues on Gharj?

 

Honestly I would give up cell charger completely if they'd simply remove the tiered ammo regen and make us always generate one ammo every GCD. Maybe let Cell Charger give a boost to this regen. That would solve pretty much all our ammo usage issues. (What can I say? I've been spoiled by leveling shadow).

 

 

I would also prefer if they changed Weapon Calibrations instead of Target Lock. This change seems to be more as a way to justify all the accuracy on Rakata. Target lock is what made it ok to sub out alot of those Rakata enhancements.

 

The only change I'm happy about is the change to charged barrel. It will guarantee that we can get off a fully buffed HiB on every cooldown. This is a VERY minor increase.

 

Overall I find the current patch notes infuriating for one reason:

Additionally in Game Update 1.3, we’ve made changes to improve the gameplay and quality of life of Commando/Mercenary damage-dealing specs. We’ve spent a lot of time playtesting and investigating the concerns of the community, and while Commando/Mercenary damage is largely on target, prior to Game Update 1.3, resource management made performance streaky and a little too unreliable.

 

Until you can show me the math demonstrating that 1 ammo every 6 seconds guaranteed will be better than a chance to generate 1 ammo every 3 seconds for a well geared commando under sustained DPS conditions (again I don't count moving regen since if you're moving a lot you don't have ammo issues anyway), then this is the opposite of a quality of life improvement and now instead of our damage being "streaky and unreliable" it will just be reliably bad.

 

Again, if I didn't likemy guild and raiding with them as much as I do, I would have unsubbed awhile ago. The current iteration of PTS notes only reinforce that belief. Make a demonstrable positive change to our ammo regen, or demonstrate that your current change IS positive for someone with a 65% crit rate on grav round, and nearly 40% on everything else, or else please just leave us alone. We get that you hate us. It'd be nice if you stopped rubbing our noses in it.

[Ganrax]

I'm not quite at the "cancelled sub" point yet, but I agree about this:

 

This change is a buff to undergeared commandos, but a nerf to well geared commandos. With set bonuses you can easily regenerate 2 ammo every six seconds using Grav Round. Right now my Grav Round Crit is over 50%.

 

Yeah that's how I'm seeing it, it's great for under geared Commando's or Commandos that are not stacking the right stats but for geared out Commandos the move from 3-6 seconds is bad. My grav rounds crit more times than not(40% crit raid buffed, 55% for Grav rounds with set bonus) so I was almost always getting an ammo return within 3 seconds and definitely before 6. We were better off before. You had the opportunity to get off 2 procs in a 6 second period and now we are having that opportunity removed for a guaranteed proc every 6 seconds which if you were even decently geared you already had.

[SeloDaoC]

Havent played for a couple of months but have been viewing the forums from time to time

 

This patch will put the nail in the coffin for the few gunnery commandos left

 

1. Still no change to survivability against melee, no change to constantly beeing interupted, or otherwise getting your skills chain interupted by other kinds of cc.

 

2. Still no escape abilities to get away from melee, once you get a melee player on your, their on you until either one of you are dead, 90% of the time its you.

 

3. You dont have to use as many GR now to use HiB and Demo round? sounds nice, only that HiB and Demo costs alot of ammo and youll run out of ammo fast if you use it more often, most player used 3 attacks anyways.

 

4. Burst was the only way to kill anything as a Gunnery commando in PvP, with the nerfs to adrenals and artifacts, well have even less chance to kill someone.

 

5. No nerfs at all to marauders, powertechs, game over

Edited June 6, 2012 by SeloDaoC