DPS tactics for EC

[riddyl]

Ok, so I'm wondering about a couple of situations specific to Explosive Conflict (8-man story mode) for a Hybrid (1/12/28) sorcerer.

 

1. Stormcaller and Firebrand. When dealing with the adds under the shields, what is the most effective way of DPSing them down? Should I be casting Affliction on all 3 then FL and CD on a single target, or just focus on one at a time?

 

2 (and my main problem). Kephess. When dealing with the Baradium Bombers what is the most effective way to DPS them down? At the moment I just use my standard 'rotation' (AF>DF>CD>FL), but is there a better way to generate the burst damage needed? I also try to pop a cooldown per bomber: adrenal, then a relic, then recklessness (is the best use of a recklessness cast 2x FL still?).

My guild has trouble with this phase of the fight (and I suspect its not my DPS at fault) but anything I can do to eke out a few more dps will help.

 

Any answers for my glut of questions out there? I suppose the answers to the above could apply to other situations in PvE as well (eg. Heavy Fabricator).

[schnopsnosn]

For the adds at the tanks:

I always electrocute the first one, use Tumult(non-crit 2k, crit 3,8k for me) and burn the rest of them down with Shock and FL.

 

For the Baradium Bombers I put Affliciton on him as soon as I see him(I'm usually the first to spot him), then follow up with DF and CD(Wrath-proc up) and then burn the rest down with FL and an occasional Shock.

[pureeffinmetal]

1) Mass Affliction. I always do this. Affliction is critical to your build to procc Lightning Barrage which is your only source of burst.

 

2) Not much else you can do. Sorcs are not a really burst class. Personally I would respecc Lightning if I were you if your guild is struggling on this fight. Lightning offers more reliable burst than the other speccs, and will give you the force to spam AOE during the add phase.

[xenofire]

^^ what this guy says...

 

Hybrid or madness really suck at kephiss. Too much burst DPS required, throughout the fight it's "target switch and burn, target switch and burn". It's almost the anti-hybrid/anti-madness fight.

 

You'll like lightning better on the tanks anyways. Affliction all three targets, get a force barrage proc, ones pretty much dead, thundering blast the other, tap lightning strike a few times and then starting dotting things in other peoples bubbles and predot the tanks, and never worry about force.

[Larry_Dallas]

Well, ditch the hybrid for one thing. You're sacrificing damage to gain, well, nothing.

 

What Xenofire and pureffinmetal both said is pretty much bang on. I roll madness normally because of its strength, utility and relative survivability in pvp, but always respec lightning if we're going to run EC, for all the reasons they just said.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[riddyl]

^^ what this guy says...

 

Hybrid or madness really suck at kephiss. Too much burst DPS required, throughout the fight it's "target switch and burn, target switch and burn". It's almost the anti-hybrid/anti-madness fight.

 

You'll like lightning better on the tanks anyways. Affliction all three targets, get a force barrage proc, ones pretty much dead, thundering blast the other, tap lightning strike a few times and then starting dotting things in other peoples bubbles and predot the tanks, and never worry about force.

 

Interesting, I suppose I always just looked at the mathematical standpoint that Hybrid is best without taking the fight mechanics into account.

 

I think I will re-spec to lightning, but what sort of Crit/Surge/Alacrity numbers should I be shooting for? My best estimate is Crit Chance around 35%, Crit Multiplier around 70-75% and then activation speed of 7-10%. How does that match up to what you run?

 

Thanks for all the input guys!

[xenofire]

Interesting, I suppose I always just looked at the mathematical standpoint that Hybrid is best without taking the fight mechanics into account.

 

It's also only a mathematical standpoint from a perfect world case.

 

In WoW arcane mages are slightly more dps than fire, but nobody plays those because they're so much harder to "play perfect", it's not practical. In reality, fire will do more damage almost every fight just because of the human error factor, so regardless of the math fire performs better.

 

That's kind of what I've experienced with madness or hybrid too, because force lightning is your filler and yet so much of your damage, so every single tick has it's importance and your rotation/dot sequence require little room for error to maximize.

 

Lightning is far more forgiving and in my opinion actually require more intuition and more intellectual play to do correct, and doesn't have the high fluxuation based on human error.

[Pontuz]

Well I parse 1350 in a 3/7/31 build on the operations dummy.

After reading this thread and some other ones concerning EC HM I switched to a 3/31/7 build.

Now I know I don't have the timing down pat like I do in madness but I parsed 1111 dps @5minutes.

(all parses done with all 4 class buffs, rakata stim & adrenal, using the energy matrix relic & campaign power relic)

 

36.1% crit, 75.8% surge, 8% activation, 828 bonus dmg (working on it) and 2072 WP.

 

Is it just simply my gear that's keeping my from parsing higher or am I just that clumsy with the lightning rotation?

My goal right now is to be able to parse 1500 by myself.

 

I use this priority list:

 

Affliction

Thundering Blast

Crushing Darkness

Force Lightning (with Lightning Barrage )

Chain Lightning (with Lightning Storm )

Lightning Strike or Force Lightning

 

Any help is appreciated.

[Kiishim]

I also changed to lightning spec and saw a 200 dps decrease just like you. I had the same rotation as you. I don't think it's wrong, I just think I'm a little clumsy at activating it still. I've been looking for some real numbers on an Ops dummy from somebody who is fluent with both builds.

[pureeffinmetal]

3/7/31 Madness is going to Parse better on the dummy because more of its damage isn't mitigated by armor.

 

Once you're in a raid Lightning will overtake Madness with armor debuffs present.

 

Strictly speaking 1/12/28 Hybrid theoretically has superior single target DPS in a Patchwerk fight (no such fight exist in game atm)

 

Furthermore in Denova each boss encounter has either 2 boss mobs, or several situations where the ability to use AOE in terms of resource capabilities is going to put your DPS Ahead.

 

With a 3/7/31 Madness Build you only have Death Field which is mediocre AOE - and you'll destroy your force pool using Force Storm. You'll also find it draining to Multi-DoT with Madness, especially if you try to keep Creeping Terror on 2 targets.

 

1/12/28 or 0/13/28 Has the Force and possibly more AOE options. You can definitely keep multi-affliction up however. Force won't be as bad as Madness but not as good as Lightning

 

With a 3/31/7 Full Lightning Build you have DPS that scales very well with armor penetration, unlimited force to AOE (and possibly off heal and/or use static barrier at will) and second-to-none AOE damage capabilities.

 

Operation Target Dummy testing isn't everything. That being said here is my Lightning Parse. I was also lagging and screwed up a bit, or it would have been higher.

 

At the end of the day if Lightning still feels clunky to you - don't play it. Theoretically all builds are within 1% of each other for DPS. Therefore you should specc the specc you are most skilled and have the most fun with.

 

 

36.1% crit, 75.8% surge, 8% activation, 828 bonus dmg (working on it) and 2072 WP.

 

I use this priority list:

 

Affliction

Thundering Blast

Crushing Darkness

Force Lightning (with Lightning Barrage )

Chain Lightning (with Lightning Storm )

Lightning Strike or Force Lightning

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

My crit and surge are about the same, within a percentile. Activation speed as well. I am however running 975~ bonus damage with 3 stacks of Conduction and raid buffed. (don't remember my damage without it)

 

Don't use force lighting unless its procc'd.

 

Still your DPS should be waaaay higher than 1100 with that gear. Maybe its just unfamiliarity with the Specc but I always am very close with my parses. A month or so back I believe I parsed 1490, 1500 and 1510 with Lightning/Madness/Hybrid respectively. You shouldn't be seeing 200 dps losses from any specc change.

Edited June 14, 2012 by pureeffinmetal

[Pontuz]

Thank you very much for your feedback.

 

I do believe that lightning just isn't intuitive for me yet. Though I think once it is, I will enjoy playing it more than madness, I just have to keep messing with it.

 

Looking at your parse however I see that your average Thundering Blast hits for 4377. Mine was around 3900.

So I would say my lagging behind in power is hurting me quite a bit.

 

One of our inquisitors just learned the schematic for the MK1 implants so I'm hoping to get 2 crit crafted ones from him. That would add 71 power each plus 18 willpower each from the augments. So that should be a step in the right direction

 

 

Ty again for your feedback, I will keep working on it.

[JDotter]

Thank you very much for your feedback.

 

I do believe that lightning just isn't intuitive for me yet. Though I think once it is, I will enjoy playing it more than madness, I just have to keep messing with it.

 

Looking at your parse however I see that your average Thundering Blast hits for 4377. Mine was around 3900.

So I would say my lagging behind in power is hurting me quite a bit.

 

One of our inquisitors just learned the schematic for the MK1 implants so I'm hoping to get 2 crit crafted ones from him. That would add 71 power each plus 18 willpower each from the augments. So that should be a step in the right direction

 

 

Ty again for your feedback, I will keep working on it.

 

 

I'm sitting on 1150 power and 1918 WP and my TB's don't hit for 4377. believe those are majority crit

 

 

EDIT: Just saw 97% crit success. I'm only my bracers (armoring drop) and headpiece (they are quite ****** though) from my bis for madness, them I'm going to play around more W/lighting.

Edited June 14, 2012 by JDotter

[pureeffinmetal]

I'm sitting on 1150 power and 1918 WP and my TB's don't hit for 4377. believe those are majority crit

 

 

EDIT: Just saw 97% crit success. I'm only my bracers (armoring drop) and headpiece (they are quite ****** though) from my bis for madness, them I'm going to play around more W/lighting.

 

I messed up one of my casts. Thundering Blast should have 100% Crit rate.

[xenofire]

Lightning will feel very clunky at first when you play it, and you'll be forced to make "decisions" about what to cast, which is really not the case with other specs. It takes a good amount of time to become acclimated.... but once you do it should be within 1% of hybrid, if you play hybrid perfectly-- which I personally don't think is realistically possible.

 

Madness will perform better by yourself without armor debuffs.... In a 16 man raid on a target dummy I did madness and parsed about 1450 a few times, and did lightning and was parsing over 1550 up to 1600. This was in full rakata, before any upgrades, on the PTS.

[Kiishim]

I got the Ops dummy and tested my dps as hyrbid spec and I saw I was doing about 1350 dps. So I switched to Lightning again to compare and I started out at 1100dps, ouch. But I tried over and over to get the rotation better and I'm sitting at about 1306 so far, and still getting the rotation down.

 

Now I wondered why I wasn't getting 1500 numbers like a lot of other people. Well I noticed most of people who commented say they have about 32% crit WITH the agent buff. I have 32% WITHOUT.

 

So can people who use lightning clarify that they have about 27% crit without agent buff and dump the rest into power?

 

Also, I only have inquisitor and warrior buffs for when I did my parses, I don't have agent. So these numbers are with 32% crit, not the 37% I normally have.

 

Do most of you recommend going only to about 27% crit without agent buff and dumping into power, or going 32% crit without agent buff? Any feedback is appreciated.

[xenofire]

Try and get 300 crit, alacrity, and surge, and then sink the rest into willpower and power.

[AshlaBoga]

I just respeced from healer sorc to dps and used the 1/12/28 spec for Story EC.

 

The DoTs were lovely, but I think that given the prevalence of bosses that require burst damage (which sorcs really don't do that well to begin with in comparison to Snipers) that the 3/31/7 works better here. Sure it's not as good solo, but if you're focusing on clearing HM EC then you're not exactly focused on playing solo are you?

 

That being said, what's the ideal 3/31/7 rotation for the Bombers on Kephess?

[Whizzer_]

Well I dont know about optimal, but:

 

Affliction

Relic Use (power or alacrity)

Thundering Blast

Crushing Darkness

Force Lightning until something procs or Cooldowns of TB or CD are done

 

I try to keep a Chain Lightning Proc from the fight (shielded Mobs, robots) before, so I get some extra burst after Affliction.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Whizzer_

[JDotter]

Try and get 300 crit, alacrity, and surge, and then sink the rest into willpower and power.

 

I'm at 280 (alacrity) 285 (surge) 44 (crit) and just parsed 1850 on the nar shadda, world boss, granted that takes no movement I considered it to be a test dummy W/loot.

 

Going to run SM Denova with the current stats on Monday and see how everything goes and decide to switch the stats or not.

 

What do you use as your second relic? I'm currently using campaign power and the ****** internal proc, I'm re-running dailies and I'm thinking either the kinetic proc or alacrity, was also thinking using a cube.

Edited June 16, 2012 by JDotter

[AshlaBoga]

I tried 1/12/28 but ended up doing 980 dps in NIghtmare EV and decided I just HATED that spec. Mind you, Soa and Gharj were bugged so I guess I probably could have done more like 1100 dps, but that's definitely not want I wanted in NIghtmare EV. Switched to 3/31/7 and did 1270 first boss of Nightmare EV and 1350 on the second boss. So I think that Lightning is better than Madness for most Ops. I haven't used madness in EC, but I think that Lightning is the way to go on EV, KP and EC. Edited June 17, 2012 by AshlaBoga

[TechTony]

I tried 1/12/28 but ended up doing 980 dps in NIghtmare EV and decided I just HATED that spec. Mind you, Soa and Gharj were bugged so I guess I probably could have done more like 1100 dps, but that's definitely not want I wanted in NIghtmare EV. Switched to 3/31/7 and did 1270 first boss of Nightmare EV and 1350 on the second boss. So I think that Lightning is better than Madness for most Ops. I haven't used madness in EC, but I think that Lightning is the way to go on EV, KP and EC.

 

I just can't do it anymore. How you feel about a spec does not make the spec bad. Show some parses and let us see if you played the hybrid spec correctly before you go spouting opinion as fact.

[CecilPaladin]

I just got back from a hiatus from the game (before 1.2's release). I tried EV / KP / and the new EC with my old 13/28 hybrid spec and I definitely miss Wrath + Chain Lightning. I petitioned for them to even reduce the damage (no 20% buff and even a reduction in dps if they allowed us to keep the CL proc) because it gives us so much flexibility in terms of AoE and even casts. But I lost that battle.

 

Anyways, the runs I've been on feel a bit odd without CL procs. I was debating using Lightning Strike at all if the extra damage was worth it or not. I just installed MOX though so I'm still figuring out the parsing. On a training dummy I ranged anywhere from 1100 dps to up to 1390 dps using the 13/28 hybrid spec.

 

What I still like about it is the simplicity. Going through EC for the first time in a PuG in SM it was much easier with my memorized hybrid play. If I had to watch my Lightning spec casts along with everything else going on then I probably would have died a few times. What I like most about the hybrid spec is the ease of use and that it's still pretty decently effective. Even the simucraft's say that the hybrid pulls a bit head of the other specs and I'm ok with that.

 

Until someone comes along and says lightning is the definite winner, I think I'll stick to hybrid for now. If they ever decide to un-nerf Wrath + CL than I'd be a very happy camper.

[Daellia]

Even the simucraft's say that the hybrid pulls a bit head of the other specs and I'm ok with that.

 

Actually, the latest Simcraft results show Lightning ahead of Madness by about 3%, and Hybrid behind Madness by about 1%. This does, however, assume 3 armor debuffs, which is no longer possible in 1.3 I suspect the specs are relatively even, though Lightning might still have a slight edge on raw DPS.

 

That said, Lightning has a massive advantage when it comes to burst, force efficiency, and AoE, all of which are very important for current raid fights.

[CecilPaladin]

Was just in a 16 man EC group with multiple sorcs. The only other sorc that had similar gear to me was a lightning spec. I'm currently still the 13/28 hybrid spec and we both used MOX. We were competing with each other for the boss fights, on some he pulled slightly a head others I did.

 

I'd say we were basically tied all night so in my opinion, both are valid. Go with the one you like playing with and don't worry about it imo. Unless your guild is having issues on HM EC or something and have asked you to respec, I think you're going to be ok.

 

Btw Daellia, I think sithwarrior.com still has the bit about the hybrid spec pulling slightly ahead in simulations. Might want to update that sticky? Well unless that point is moot because you can't stack armor debuffs anymore.

[Daellia]

Btw Daellia, I think sithwarrior.com still has the bit about the hybrid spec pulling slightly ahead in simulations. Might want to update that sticky? Well unless that point is moot because you can't stack armor debuffs anymore.

 

Ya, I've been putting off updating the OP until 1.3 hit and we have updated SimC numbers, which should be any day now.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Daellia