Drom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It is not typical for any MMO to have a server transfer system at launch. That would be silly. So not sure why you think a server transfer system should have be worked on in beta. Have you seen launch of ANY AAA MMORPG game with monthly fees in last 4 years? They all came up with transfers far to late. Server transfer should be launch day feature. Locked, but ready to be slowly pushed live after 1 free month and then fully accesible for everyone in later stage ( for ex. 2 months ago in SWTOR) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It's amazing that they didn't plan this ahead of time. Almost all MMO's have transfers available now. Server transfer software was tested in closed beta. So, it was planned ahead of time. Not sure what happened to it, suspecting Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Imagine you get transferred without your gear, or with legacy broken, or without your companion affection, or your character GETS DELETED. You may want to re-think your stance. Lets say that happens to 3% of the population. That would be bad and for those people you would have to have a team that would have to do a recovery service for them. However, the majority of the population would be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agarwaenn Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Imagine you get transferred without your gear, or with legacy broken, or without your companion affection, or your character GETS DELETED. You may want to re-think your stance. This. Their internal testing team better up their game. If this launches broken, it will hurt there sub numbers even more than waiting a few extra weeks. Edited June 1, 2012 by Agarwaenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnis Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Then you need to be completely clear. Are you completely finished with Dev., and are now into the Testing phase (completely different phase). Or, are you "just about finished" with the Dev. phase and have not started testing yet? Basically what does "just about finished" mean? Hours, days, weeks? Also, based on your past track record with internally testing things (see mini patches that are not put on the ptr as evidence), the community has very little faith that this will be tested properly/completely. "Just about finished up on the development side of things." "Just about." Why are you asking if they're completely finished with the development phase when he comes right out and says, "just about finished?" And seriously, asking whether they're "hours, days, weeks" away from finishing? I suspect you already know why that is a pointless question to ask. Please stop speaking for "the community." You don't speak for me. I didn't ask you to speak for me, nor has anyone else. You have very little faith this will be tested properly. Others will agree with you on that. Many others will not. Very few, however, will agree that every single mini-patch that is released needs to be on the PTR, though, as there isn't a single game out there, whether in North America, Asia, or Europe, that tests their mini-patches on a PTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agarwaenn Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Server transfer software was tested in closed beta. So, it was planned ahead of time. Not sure what happened to it, suspecting Legacy. I was in closed beta, and this was not tested. They tried to give us premades, but that failed horribly. Bugged toons, unstable server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Imagine you get transferred without your gear, or with legacy broken, or without your companion affection, or your character GETS DELETED. You may want to re-think your stance. Back in SWG I transfered (for MONEY!) my character to populated server and lost items worth about 100 mill in process. Some were recovered by GMs but about 80% were lost and still better then be stucked on empty server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolfs Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 What part of "testing" don't you get? It's not that they're still trying to code it. Coding's done. It needs to be tested internally, and tested, and tested until it works flawlessly. Because a bugged transfer system will not be tolerated by the community. Actually the cycle is more like a game of hot potato. With the coding team passing a build to the testing team that passes the build back to the coding team with a list of bugs or approves it for release. To say they code it, they test it, it is done is not how it works. There is a reason there are over 7000 builds for each release of Microsoft Windows. 7000 times the code team has told the QA team test this. Granted many of those builds are feature incomplete but it gives the QA team things to test and fail. Until they arrive at the build the QA team says is good enough. No software has been or ever will be perfect when it is as big as Windows or SWTOR. I suspect the character transfer software will take fewer than 7000 builds. Community team correct me if Bioware works differently than my experience. In my experience to say there is a code phase test phase debug phase, just does not reflect software development, these things happen as close to the same time as a software house can make them work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I was in closed beta, and this was not tested. They tried to give us premades, but that failed horribly. Bugged toons, unstable server. yeah, that infamous endgame content testing/fixing server.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agarwaenn Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 ", as there isn't a single game out there, whether in North America, Asia, or Europe, that tests their mini-patches on a PTR. so you are saying they shouldn't strive to be better than everyone else? Should not want to be an innovator instead of a follower? Their internal testing team misses a lot of stuff. Until they get better people, yes, all mini patches should be tested for a few days on the ptr. Putting untested, buggy patches into Live games HAS become the norm, sadly, and because gamers like the one above accept it, we all suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Lets say that happens to 3% of the population. That would be bad and for those people you would have to have a team that would have to do a recovery service for them. However, the majority of the population would be happy. Lets say that happens to 97% of the population. That would be really bad and for those people you would have to have the whole team doing a recovery service for them. However, the minority of the population would be happy. Speculation and hyperbole go both ways. BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Lets say that happens to 97% of the population. That would be really bad and for those people you would have to have the whole team doing a recovery service for them. However, the minority of the population would be happy. Speculation and hyperbole go both ways. BJ In my original post on this matter I stated "some bugs" as in few, small impact, or minor. You are mischaracterizing what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnis Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 so you are saying they shouldn't strive to be better than everyone else? Should not want to be an innovator instead of a follower? Their internal testing team misses a lot of stuff. Until they get better people, yes, all mini patches should be tested for a few days on the ptr. Putting untested, buggy patches into Live games HAS become the norm, sadly, and because gamers like the one above accept it, we all suffer. There's striving to be better than everyone else, and then there's needlessly wasting money on pointless things. Testing every single mini-patch on the PTR is a needless waste of money. No other game does this for a very good reason, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmith Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 this threat in in flames but, can my questions on page 28 be answered plz ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi_overtake Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) In my original post on this matter I stated "some bugs" as in few, small impact, or minor. You are mischaracterizing what I said. Just because there are few bugs doesn't mean that they're all minor. A bug could be character deletion for all players with special characters in their name. it's minor, as not many people have those characters, but it's still a high-impact bug. Anyways, this thread's been derailed. New Comm team, when might you expect the devs to be posting on their own blogs? I think you said before that some are in the process of getting approved, so you think in the first couple weeks of this month? Edited June 1, 2012 by psi_overtake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasmeadows Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 So since you all have characters that you play, your opinion counts too. So lets get this started. What would you add to the legacy system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 HELL YEAH !! Finally !!! You guys probably must have read some of my posts regarding communication between your side and ours so, you know how I've waited for this to happen !! I can't wait to know who's going to be responsible for the PvP community I'll be following every step he'll make xD Sad no one of you plays Sorcerer.... You fail to experience the true power of the Dark Side! just messing around, now to serious matters: first, I suggest you to change dev tracker if you're going to be active on the forums something more.... structured, organized, I dunno, scrolling down dozens of posts searching for the information we want to know (PvP, Crew Skills, Space, you know this better than me) might become hard. second, how are you going to handle forum organization ? I've only recently took active role on the forums (as I've said somewhere, when things are going on the right direction, people don't come to forums and play the game, when things aren't so good, people come here complaining that's my bet on why there's so much whining) but I see an huge number of posts regarding the same thing, posted by different people (I've done it myself). I noticed you started to close threats and redirecting people to the threats. Are you planning on changing the subsections structure of the forum so people can search for what they want faster? I mean, I need to try to guess by posts title (and there are some that don't say nothing at all about the threat) if it will be referring to something I want to know... third, how will the policy regarding future updates on the game and communication with us? Will you remain almost silent about what features are you thinking about implementing ? I know it's good to surprise costumers and I've already posted my thoughts about this regarding PvP so I won't extend here, but (that's only my opinion and it counts for what it is) I couldn't care less about Legacy (with all the insane prices I still haven't bought anything) when Ranked isn't deployed. Could be that the people developing Legacy don't know how to implement Ranked, I don't know. Will you ask for our opinion on some developing features ? (They have in the past. I don't see why that wouldn't continue. Really glad 3d space won that poll) forth, I've seen you're going to sticky posts with news so everyone can read them, but I still think I shouldn't hope some costumer who follows twitter to have the kindness to come here sharing important details that are posted there. Not to mention 3rd party interviews but those are harder to miss. (I asked the same thing. They are going to see if they can make a compilation of all their tweet/Q.A/interview on a sticky updated by them or something) finally, I have no idea why pools aren't allowed anymore, as someone said on a post this week, some people see topics and just don't give their opinion because they don't want to write an answer. Giving a vote is a lot easier. Even if the pools were made by you, allowing to figure out the general community feelings about some hardly discussed topics (I've been on some regarding RWZs and if PuGs should or shouldn't be allowed to queue for them just as an example) so it could be more controlled. I've seen an interesting topic on PvP asking for people to vote for their favorite WZs in order. It's funny to see that generally people like the WZ that requires faster reactions and it's the only one where DPS/Healing/Tanking isn't the most crucial aspect of winning or loosing. But the threat poster needs to have a huge work to see every single reply and update the threat. So, there are advantages on pools but for some reason unknown to me, they were removed for us. Will any of this change ? Thanks for reading everything (I read every single one of your posts here so I think were even ) and let's make this game the epic game it has the potential to become! I was able to answer 2 of the 4 for you. :X hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmith Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I was able to answer 2 of the 4 for you. :X hope that helps. cool, tks now only 3 missing. Still wanted some clarification on the third point though Edited June 1, 2012 by wolfmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfindreams Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Just a piece of feedback, I think by in large people would prefer estimated dates that have to be revised later than no date/clue. I.E. Saying "1.3 is currently estimated to be early June" and later having to say "This is taking longer than estimates, and we are now looking at late July" rather than "when 1.3 comes out which we aren't going to tell you when, nyah!" Things with a solid date always seem to come up faster and the impression of waiting when it is "any day now" or "early summer, hey its early summer now!" is much worse for the relationship than just being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranid Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 so you are saying they shouldn't strive to be better than everyone else? Should not want to be an innovator instead of a follower? Their internal testing team misses a lot of stuff. Until they get better people, yes, all mini patches should be tested for a few days on the ptr. Putting untested, buggy patches into Live games HAS become the norm, sadly, and because gamers like the one above accept it, we all suffer. First most mini patches are to take care of exploits or to rectify a bug. They aren't going to tell you what the exploits are so there is no need to test them on a PTS. The bug they will get immediate feedback from those that the bug affected. (not everyone is affected by the bug). Second, everyone is not going to go to the tests server to test minor patches. They barely get the few they have to go there and test major patches as it is. Most people want to keep plugging along on the main servers because well the test servers don't mean anything. Are you signed up on the test server to test patches? Have you applied to have your character transferred there for the 1.3 test?\ Which by the way is most likely how they are going to test the transfer process. If the tool doesn't work like it should then they will manually transfer the characters so you can help test 1.3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlink Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Congrats everyone, I have a question about how the information transfer process is going to be handled from now on.. Will we still be seating at the edge of our seats, waiting for a possible weekly friday update, or will there are plans for a different format of communication ? Also, if you guys are basically a buffer between us and the developers, are there any plans to make it so we will be able to actually see what requests are being forwarded to the development team, and what they have actually thought about it.. like a developer q&a, but in a more informal way.. for example like a thread that can be kept updated by you guys.. Just to keep the communication process open.. or even introduce a sort of a bugzilla like system where people could actually comment on bugs and report them in an open matter.. or even a feature request tracking system, with same purpose of open communication Because i don't know how everyone else, but I've felt like being in the dark about the upcoming changes and long term plans beyond what was announced in the patch notes and developer dispatches.. and i know its hard to be locked into one definitive thing.. just thinking there should be more information available to players.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Just a piece of feedback, I think by in large people would prefer estimated dates that have to be revised later than no date/clue. I.E. Saying "1.3 is currently estimated to be early June" and later having to say "This is taking longer than estimates, and we are now looking at late July" rather than "when 1.3 comes out which we aren't going to tell you when, nyah!" Things with a solid date always seem to come up faster and the impression of waiting when it is "any day now" or "early summer, hey its early summer now!" is much worse for the relationship than just being wrong. I would agree with this if it weren't for the fact that the forums exploded with "Bioware is doomed! Swtor is dying! 1.2 Delayed = End of days! EA killed my dog!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastus Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Jeez...some of you folks are cold as ice. Give the team some freaking time to adjust. At least they're trying to reach out. You ever play a nexon game? You don't know what bad customer service is until you have, so take it easy and have some patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parali Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Greetings, We just wanted to pop in here and remind everyone that this thread is for players to discuss the Community Team blog, and we'd appreciate it if the discussion stayed on-topic. We know that the players are eager to discuss the upcoming server transfers and Online Community Manager Joveth Gonzalez' post, so you might want to continue that conversation here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=469501 Thank you for your cooperation! Edited June 1, 2012 by Parali typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Jeez...some of you folks are cold as ice. Give the team some freaking time to adjust. At least they're trying to reach out. You ever play a nexon game? You don't know what bad customer service is until you have, so take it easy and have some patience. Oh... my god. I had forgotten about nexon. I put in a ticket in vindictus. I stopped playing 2-3 months after that. 8 months after I placed the ticket I got an email response saying "We will look into this". It was like a copy and pasted auto response. I was baffled. But back on topic, This change in management is just another reason bioware has great customer service which many of us take for granted. Edited June 1, 2012 by metalgearyoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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