30m Is Not An Advanated In SWTOR

[Cempa]

To a player a Bounty Hunter is a class and when considering which Advanced Class to pick they look at the trees/abilities. Lets look at Pyro, designers seem to have assumed that Mercs are ranged and Powertechs are short range, which technically is true but is drastically diluted inside a WZ and 10m might as well be 30m!

 

There is nothing a Pyro Merc brings to organized PvP that another build can not do better...Yet designers assume its ranged so give it lower proc chance on snaring the target and require it to cast! 30m in organized PvP might as well be 10m the advantage of 30m is just far too small with all the charges and pulls and high amount of movement.

 

Lets be honest, how long against a good team will a Merc or Sorcerer be allowed to free cast?

 

I think you get my point, 30m might as well be 10m....Look at maps, in objective based PvP you are either allowed to free cast from +20m or you need to be within that 10m to 15m radius of attackers.

 

BW needs to look at how much weight they have given 11m - 30m because right now it seems its over weighted and they have over compensated melee for it.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Cempa

[Frostbyt]

10m, it's the new 30m

[johnyangelo]

What about meelee classes have ranges skills up to 25m, ranged 30m and snipers 40m...? I mean It is possible with sniper to use terrain as adavntage with maximum range, but what about dps mercenary ... when hes 30m away; melee class like sentinel can just jump on him. So...

[Bartes]

What about meelee classes have ranges skills up to 25m, ranged 30m and snipers 40m...? I mean It is possible with sniper to use terrain as adavntage with maximum range, but what about dps mercenary ... when hes 30m away; melee class like sentinel can just jump on him. So...

 

you sound as if all sniper/GS skills had 40m range. Only 2 skills have that range if you have PvP armor set bonus out of which 1 is just disrupt.

[BambulaGTS]

But they have dispell and healz.

 

Y?

[kronomandar]

... when hes 30m away; melee class like sentinel can just jump on him. So...

 

CC and run away?

the charge might not have a huge cooldown, but it still has a cooldown, it cant be spammed

melee have gap closers, ranged have gap openers. i suggest you start using them from time to time.

 

also, learn to kite. and no, you dont know how to kite effectively. no matter how much you believe you do.

the number of truly effective kiters on any given server can be counted on one hand. the melee players get to know who those players are very quickly, because they are so frustrating to fight.

if you have problems with melee classes, you clearly are not one of those good at kiting.

[Cempa]

Running away and kiting in an objective based PvP game!

 

You know how they balance ranged vs melee, it seems to me in this game they over compensated melee if you consider all the roots and snares.

 

Melee in this game have a much easier time staying in range and mitigating....Carnage Marauders can root a target x3 times in a row for 3 sec each time, that's 9 sec! 9 sec of uninterpreted burst from a duel wielding melee class.

 

Assassins in tanking stance either dps build or hybrids and in dps gear, 30m stun, a knock back a 30m mezz and can cover 30m in 2 sec via Force Speed as well as go IMMUNE to x2 schools of damage! If tank spec they also can pull from 30m...

 

Pyro BH PT 10m DoT snare -CGS- and it can be kept up all the time as long as you are within 10m and they get a 30m stun and a 30m pull!

 

The list goes on, snares, roots, pulls, ranged stuns and all from melee classes!

You say kite but you forget that inside a WZ its 8v8, one of his other buddies is going to chain root, stun or pull you back!

[Rohns]

Running away and kiting in an objective based PvP game!

 

You know how they balance ranged vs melee, it seems to me in this game they over compensated melee if you consider all the roots and snares.

 

Melee in this game have a much easier time staying in range and mitigating....Carnage Marauders can root a target x3 times in a row for 3 sec each time, that's 9 sec! 9 sec of uninterpreted burst from a duel wielding melee class.

 

Assassins in tanking stance either dps build or hybrids and in dps gear, 30m stun, a knock back a 30m mezz and can cover 30m in 2 sec via Force Speed as well as go IMMUNE to x2 schools of damage! If tank spec they also can pull from 30m...

 

Pyro BH PT 10m DoT snare -CGS- and it can be kept up all the time as long as you are within 10m and they get a 30m stun and a 30m pull!

 

The list goes on, snares, roots, pulls, ranged stuns and all from melee classes!

You say kite but you forget that inside a WZ its 8v8, one of his other buddies is going to chain root, stun or pull you back!

 

there is purge, cc breaker you too have stuns and roots

and BTW exatly because is 8v8 your buddy can knock him back stun/ root him too

[Smuglebunny]

I have no idea what this thread is about after reading the title and first post...

 

Are you saying range is OP or Melee is OP?

 

What does advanated mean?

Edited May 31, 2012 by Smuglebunny

[Renita]

To a player a Bounty Hunter is a class and when considering which Advanced Class to pick they look at the trees/abilities. Lets look at Pyro, designers seem to have assumed that Mercs are ranged and Powertechs are short range, which technically is true but is drastically diluted inside a WZ and 10m might as well be 30m!

 

There is nothing a Pyro Merc brings to organized PvP that another build can not do better...Yet designers assume its ranged so give it lower proc chance on snaring the target and require it to cast! 30m in organized PvP might as well be 10m the advantage of 30m is just far too small with all the charges and pulls and high amount of movement.

 

Lets be honest, how long against a good team will a Merc or Sorcerer be allowed to free cast?

 

I think you get my point, 30m might as well be 10m....Look at maps, in objective based PvP you are either allowed to free cast from +20m or you need to be within that 10m to 15m radius of attackers.

 

BW needs to look at how much weight they have given 11m - 30m because right now it seems its over weighted and they have over compensated melee for it.

 

Ok, so I am a little confused by this post. Do you think ranged has a disadvantage over melee in pvp? Or just that powertechs are better than mercs? Or just that a specific spec Pyromerc isnt viable?

 

While I cannot speak to the differences between powertechs and mercs or any specific specs, I will say I know some vanguards and commandos who are very effective in pvp, and I know some who aren't so effective, it really boils down to the player I think. I think in pvp if you enjoy your class and all it has to offer you will play it better, so if you don't enjoy your class I may suggest you reroll a class you do enjoy. I mean you pay for the game, you should be having fun.

 

If the discussion is ranged vs melee I think they both have advantages and disadvantages. I would disagree that people only fight in short range in pvp. I see a lot of ranged using their full range, myself included. That's not to say that they don't get into the thick of things, after all, if ranged could stay at ranged the whole game melee wouldn't stand a chance against them.

 

Melee is also very valuable in pvp because they have so many useful tools, pushes, pulls, leaps. Tanks are amazing assets in pvp, and I feel like ranged and melee have the same dps potential. Not to mention hybrid tanks who can have top protection, top dps, top medals in a match.

 

Now all that said, if you play a ranged character smart, you can be an ultimate defender, not letting anyone cap a node on you. Or you can be a distraction for that stealthy on your team you see sneaking behind the enemy to cap a node. Or in huttball you can dominate from the rafters making sure to keep mid clear, or by staying ahead of the ball carrier while still able to provide support, so they can either leap or pass to you.

 

I am a level 50 gunslinger. I feel I have to pick when I need to fight from full range, or when I need to be in the thick of things. but my range is certainly helpful when stopping a capper in the last second, something that is more difficult for a melee class. I also feel I have won plenty of fights against melee even if they get close enough to attack me, so I don't feel they are over tuned to the point that if they are in melee they win, but if you are at ranged you win.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Renita

[Uchoo]

Running away and kiting in an objective based PvP game!

 

Melee in this game have a much easier time staying in range and mitigating....Carnage Marauders can root a target x3 times in a row for 3 sec each time, that's 9 sec! 9 sec of uninterpreted burst from a duel wielding melee class.

 

You say kite but you forget that inside a WZ its 8v8, one of his other buddies is going to chain root, stun or pull you back!

 

That Carnage Marauder is going to root you 3 times? Good thing he's only capable of doing damage for 6 seconds on a heavy armor target, let's make that 4.5 seconds because you have to wait for the GCD to finish on Gore before you can do anything. If he gets a 4s stun on him, that's .5 seconds of effective damage he can deal (if timed properly).

 

As for the "The rest of his buddies will CC you to make sure you die!" Well pal, your team can do the same. You get pulled, you can get counterpulled back to you by a sorc. You're getting focused? Intercede, Guard and taunt come to mind. Teamwork actually takes you pretty far in this game, they even balanced healers around it in 1.2.

[richardya]

Inside a WZ and 10m might as well be 30m!

 

Why is that?

 

If you choose a target that is 30M away and he has to run towards you, you should be able to get two attacks off before he gets to you assuming a gap closer CD is not up.

If you chosse a target that is engaged with a teammate the chances are he will stay in engaged with that teamate as you free cast.

If you use the map right, rafters in hutball, ledge in civil war etc you can get many attacks off before they get to you.

Range alone means you can attack people by an objective and if they want to fight you they have to leave the objective.

Free casting is doable often. Other teams often concentrate on healers or the melee swinging a light saber at them.

You also have other abilities.

 

You need to play other classes to see their strenghts and weaknesses and not just concentrate on your weaknesses, this is very common in the forums.

[TomC]

Running away and kiting in an objective based PvP game!

 

You know how they balance ranged vs melee, it seems to me in this game they over compensated melee if you consider all the roots and snares.

 

Melee in this game have a much easier time staying in range and mitigating....Carnage Marauders can root a target x3 times in a row for 3 sec each time, that's 9 sec! 9 sec of uninterpreted burst from a duel wielding melee class.

 

Assassins in tanking stance either dps build or hybrids and in dps gear, 30m stun, a knock back a 30m mezz and can cover 30m in 2 sec via Force Speed as well as go IMMUNE to x2 schools of damage! If tank spec they also can pull from 30m...

 

Pyro BH PT 10m DoT snare -CGS- and it can be kept up all the time as long as you are within 10m and they get a 30m stun and a 30m pull!

 

The list goes on, snares, roots, pulls, ranged stuns and all from melee classes!

You say kite but you forget that inside a WZ its 8v8, one of his other buddies is going to chain root, stun or pull you back!

 

This post makes me sad. Apparently, no one is afraid of my Guardian.

[anticept]

you sound as if all sniper/GS skills had 40m range. Only 2 skills have that range if you have PvP armor set bonus out of which 1 is just disrupt.

 

Nope what he means is that snipers with cover mechanic can use range at will there is no charge to close the cap like jumping from ballspawnpoint to catwalks so they have to either be pulled there or charge to a friendly target(jugg/grdn.) or take walk. While merc is chargeable at the same distance

[RenegadeSLX]

30m not an advantage? See you in rated newb.

[ComeAndSee]

It comes down to map design.

 

Civil War - Mostly open except near the caps. "castle" raised land formations on the east and west basically force you to get into melee range. Middle has upper platforms for ranged, but it's easy to get LOS.

 

Huttball - Ranged play ground. You can easily sit on the ramps and make full use of your range.

 

Voidstar - Favors attacking team. Defenders have limited positions to hide behind that aren't exposed so attackers have more positions to maneuver and hide. It's like a 360 degree battleground that is more of a mid-range battle.

 

Nuvare Coast - Bunkers are basically bottle necks. Not much LOS obstacles and it's a "reverse slope defense" on the south. Favors ranged if you can get on the high ground.

Edited May 31, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Groncho]

It comes down to map design.

 

Civil War - Mostly open except near the caps. "castle" raised land formations on the east and west basically force you to get into melee range. Middle has upper platforms for ranged, but it's easy to get LOS.

 

Huttball - Ranged play ground. You can easily sit on the ramps and make full use of your range.

 

Voidstar - Favors attacking team. Defenders have limited positions to hide behind that aren't exposed so attackers have more positions to maneuver and hide. It's like a 360 degree battleground that is more of a mid-range battle.

 

Nuvare Coast - Bunkers are basically bottle necks. Not much LOS obstacles and it's a "reverse slope defense" on the south. Favors ranged if you can get on the high ground.

 

100% this

pls read this before posting nonsenses

[johnyangelo]

CC and run away?

the charge might not have a huge cooldown, but it still has a cooldown, it cant be spammed

melee have gap closers, ranged have gap openers. i suggest you start using them from time to time.

 

also, learn to kite. and no, you dont know how to kite effectively. no matter how much you believe you do.

the number of truly effective kiters on any given server can be counted on one hand. the melee players get to know who those players are very quickly, because they are so frustrating to fight.

if you have problems with melee classes, you clearly are not one of those good at kiting.

 

Dont give me attitude. MM sniper is not for kiting and I was speaking generally. I'm not even saying it's op or anything. Stun and run is answer to everything, so it's good that I have like 500 of them to use them every time.

[kronomandar]

Dont give me attitude. MM sniper is not for kiting and I was speaking generally. I'm not even saying it's op or anything. Stun and run is answer to everything, so it's good that I have like 500 of them to use them every time.

 

how often does your sniper actualy get charged? you know, since you got that whole cover mechanic that makes you unchargable in the first place.

if someones closed the distance to you, they've done it the hard way. and you just sat and watched.

 

all this thread comes down to is ranged crying that they can't attack with impunity. sometimes they have other players attacking them too! omg wont somebody think of the children!

[johnyangelo]

how often does your sniper actualy get charged? you know, since you got that whole cover mechanic that makes you unchargable in the first place.

if someones closed the distance to you, they've done it the hard way. and you just sat and watched.

 

all this thread comes down to is ranged crying that they can't attack with impunity. sometimes they have other players attacking them too! omg wont somebody think of the children!

 

I'm not getting charged often. But it's about mercenary. Sniper is ok. But mercenary shooting mechanics is very similar to sniper (channeling, activation time) but when there is sniper in cover 30m away and next to him mercenary, he will get charged, because for some reason charge has same range as range dps. So after all only thing what merc can do is kite. Why wouldnt be possible to have charge on 25m to get mercenary actuall advantage as range, since merc's range openers can be hardcountered by charge.

 

I dont feel it is broken right now, nor I'm playing merc/commando dps. It just crossed my mind.

[Astarica]

With the exception of Huttball, 10m is further away than 30m because various gap closers cannot be used on someone within 10m. It takes longer for any class with a charge/grapple to get to you if you're 9.9m away from him compared to 30m.

 

People need to realize 9.9m is the furthest someone can be away from you in this game, unless you're a Sniper.

[johnyangelo]

With the exception of Huttball, 10m is further away than 30m because various gap closers cannot be used on someone within 10m. It takes longer for any class with a charge/grapple to get to you if you're 9.9m away from him compared to 30m.

 

People need to realize 9.9m is the furthest someone can be away from you in this game, unless you're a Sniper.

9.9 > 4m ... hmm and for melee classes there are quite a lot of abilities with 10m range.

[Revelationjp]

edited:

 

Ignore me, was in a bad mood and being rude for no good reason.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Revelationjp

[Vodrin]

This post makes me sad. Apparently, no one is afraid of my Guardian.

 

Or my jugg. It's ok with me though, as it lets me get more kills.

[Invictusthetaru]

I agree, mercs need something. I feel like I have all the tools to deal with melees effectively on my slinger. Not to mention I get an interrupt, so mercs don't stand a chance against my class.

 

The only thing mercs have over slingers is a ranged stun, and even that can be obtained in the middle slinger/sniper tree. Mercs need something. All they have is a ****** defensive cooldown and a knockback that helps them for a few seconds.