Guardian need a buff

[dcgregorya]

Sorry, but your extrapolated experience is ********.

 

A Defense Guardian does maybe 2/3rds the damage of a Shield Vanguard. And it's melee, not ranged.

 

It's so ridiculous that you would equate being able to defeat a sniper with a sentinel, scoundrel or vanguard with it being easy for a guardian.

 

Honestly, from your play history, it looks like you've just been a FOTM reroller. You're only missing a Shadow/Assassin.

 

My first class was marauder, second was gunslinger so save it. I do have a shadow, I rolled my scoundrel after 1.2. I also have a commando and a guardian, just haven't ranked him past 35 yet. My guardian guildies dominate and I've dominated since level 11 on every class I play. Because instead of crying here that I need more tools (that I already have), I actually use strategy.

 

Anyway, if you want to continue being bad, by all means, continue being bad. Roll around in tank spec with no tanking gear and complain that snipers hit you for too much damage.

Edited May 31, 2012 by dcgregorya

[LiveandDieinLA]

Guardians have heals now? Lolwut?

 

And if you're talking about waiting to get out of combat to heal, that is just as equally dumb. First, it takes forever, and secondly, you're not contributing to your team and you basically just self CCed yourself for 10+ seconds. All while the sniper is destroying your teammates.

 

Oh btw snipers are the direct counter to sents. If you're 100% beating snipers on your sent, than the snipers on your server are *********** terrible.

 

yeah actually guardians have self heals now on a 45 sec cd.

 

Its called patch 1.2.

[dcgregorya]

Guardians have heals now? Lolwut?

 

And if you're talking about waiting to get out of combat to heal, that is just as equally dumb. First, it takes forever, and secondly, you're not contributing to your team and you basically just self CCed yourself for 10+ seconds. All while the sniper is destroying your teammates.

 

Oh btw snipers are the direct counter to sents. If you're 100% beating snipers on your sent, than the snipers on your server are *********** terrible.

 

Endure Pain + Medpack? Getting out of combat is fast if he hasn't dot'd you. As for snipers vs sentinels, all you have to do is land pacify while they're casting ambush and camo on their root/knockback (or let them cast ambuhs if you've pacified them) and you win 100% of the time. Amazing how -90% accuracy makes an accuracy based spec miss. Every sniper fight is like this : knockback, rotation, dodge when they are almost dead. So I kill their accuracy, hide during the knockback or let them cast if they have the accuracy debuff, pop rebuke and beat them up, blade storm & force sweep once they pop dodge, stasis if they series of shot without having entrench running.

 

To kill someone all you need to do is get their HP to 0 before yours, it's not rocket science. You don't have to completely shut people down or perma stun them or avoid all their attacks - just enough to win the fight.

Edited May 31, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Sir-Coffee]

yeah actually guardians have self heals now on a 45 sec cd.

 

Its called patch 1.2.

 

I feel bad for you.

[Smashbrother]

yeah actually guardians have self heals now on a 45 sec cd.

 

Its called patch 1.2.

 

Except you need to take damage for the heal to activate, so you can't LoS that sniper and heal yourself.

 

PWND

[LiveandDieinLA]

Thats true.

 

Ever try popping focused D when you have a dot ticking on you?

 

I'm not trying to be a ********, I am just honestly curious

Edited May 31, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA

[Smashbrother]

Endure Pain + Medpack? Getting out of combat is fast if he hasn't dot'd you. As for snipers vs sentinels, all you have to do is land pacify while they're casting ambush and camo on their root/knockback (or let them cast ambuhs if you've pacified them) and you win 100% of the time. Amazing how -90% accuracy makes an accuracy based spec miss. Every sniper fight is like this : knockback, rotation, dodge when they are almost dead. So I kill their accuracy, hide during the knockback or let them cast if they have the accuracy debuff, pop rebuke and beat them up, blade storm & force sweep once they pop dodge, stasis if they series of shot without having entrench running.

 

To kill someone all you need to do is get their HP to 0 before yours, it's not rocket science. You don't have to completely shut people down or perma stun them or avoid all their attacks - just enough to win the fight.

 

Endure pain isn't a heal, and the fact that you suggest using it at the start of a fight shows you're a baddie. Medpacs at the start of a fight are also more proof you suck.

 

It doesn't matter if you have a dot on you or not, it still takes like 10 or more seconds to get out of combat.

 

You must really be fighting some terrible snipers from your description.

[Smashbrother]

Thats true.

 

Ever try popping focused D when you have a dot ticking on you?

 

I'm not trying to be a ********, I am just honestly curious

 

You're assuming you'll have a dot on you. Most snipers are marksmen and don't use dots because it messes with their 5 sec roots. Secondly, dots tick every 3 seconds, and ****** FD lasts only 10 seconds. So at most you'll get 3 heals, which is nothing.

 

And finally, FD requires 4 focus to activate and 1 focus each time it heals. When a sniper opens on you, and you LoS him, you will not have enough focus to even use FD, much less maintain it the whole time.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Smashbrother

[dcgregorya]

Endure pain isn't a heal, and the fact that you suggest using it at the start of a fight shows you're a baddie. Medpacs at the start of a fight are also more proof you suck.

 

It doesn't matter if you have a dot on you or not, it still takes like 10 or more seconds to get out of combat.

 

You must really be fighting some terrible snipers from your description.

 

Read the thread. The question was how do you heal after LOS'ing a sniper that opens on you. And yes it takes 10 seconds to get out of combat. Is that a long time in a 15 minute warzone?

 

I get that you're trolling, but then again I'm not here crying that I need boosts, I do just fine no matter what I play. You'll note I post on pretty much every "wah I need mohr power" thread because IMHO the game is pretty balanced right now with one or two notable exceptions.

 

All this thread has proven is that most people who post on the forums asking for buffs for guardians and ever other class either don't understand their class, don't understand the enemy's class or don't understand how to PVP properly. You have half the thread saying defensive stats are useless and any sniper will tell you they aren't. You have half the thread saying guardians are too easy to kite while they have a spammable snare. It goes on and on with the badness. Back and forths like this are why people just say L2P because if you invested half this time in learning to play your class or playing the classes that you think are so overpowered you'd be a much better PVPer.

Edited May 31, 2012 by dcgregorya

[RobNightfall]

I have all AC except operative, not all are 50. I can do more damage and get more kills in WZ on every other class. Playing sniper, sage, assasin and powertech get more damage and kills with less skills and efforts. Marauder is also better at damage and kills with the same skills and efforts.

 

This may honestly be an issue of play style then. If you're great at everything but one class, the problem really can be you. This is not a learn 2 play post, it's simple truth. I can't play a guardian worth a damn, but I can play a jedi shadow without an issue. If you're bad at one particular class, you may just be bad at that class lol.

[kweassa]

If you look at a sniper, they do on average around 1400DPS. My shield vanguard does 1000DPS. His armor rating is 50% damage reduction to a sniper's 25%. My shield rating is 45% with another 54% absorb when my rotation is followed and another 12% defense chance. I more than have the tools to out-damage that marksman sniper in a 1vs1 and where the skill comes into play is making sure I can maintain range to do my full DPS and avoiding incoming damage while out of range. The gear situation changes a lot though if the sniper is lethality, wherein DPS and HP becomes a lot more important than shield chance and armor rating.

 

You don't really have a clue as to what kind of 'spec' a fully defense committed Guardian/Jugg has, nor seem to be able to separate a typical Soresu-Offensive G/J with defense G/J.

 

It's a similar situation with juggs versus that same marksman sniper. You have a *LOT* more HP than him (about 30% towards BiS). Your armor rating is much higher and a marksman cannot bypass that even with his armor debuff (he has armor penetration of 20% only on ambush, which will only make up about 15-20% of his damage - it is not nearly as significant as you'd think). If he's stacking accuracy to get around your defenses he's losing crit. If he's stacking crit, only his crits are going to go around your shield and they can still be dodged and your defense rating becomes much more valuable again along with your armor rating. If you're dying to marksman snipers as a tank geared Jugg you're failing at maintaining melee range and pressure by a significant margin, which means you're being outplayed.

 

Pick your gear and your spec to deal with your opposition and then play *TO* that gear and spec. There's nothing wrong with tanks vs DPS, most tanks however choose to not put on tanking gear and thats why they fail. Just having tanking gear btw doesn't mean you can stand out in the open and absorb everything coming at you. You still need to control incoming damage if your goal is to 1vs1 people.

 

Yep.

 

You really didn't read any of the stuff I've written concerning a Jugg/Guardian fully committing himself to the defensive.

 

[vimm]

I play a full Vengeance as well and I really enjoy it. People will complain in huttball but my response is to tell their teammates not to stand on ledges and it will greatly reduce my power level. I also love how people still don't understand how people don't take unstoppable into account. Everytime i leap and someone blows a knockback or i see a powertech pull effect fall off i feel like i found a 20 dollar bill.

 

I don't like where the tank tree is, it def needs a buff. Make shielding/defense actually do something (in a way that doesn't also buff tankassassins anymore than they already are). Vengeance Juggs could use a small buff to their DoT damage. It doesn't have to be too much but 200 and 400 damage over 6 sec is weak, espically at the cost of 2 action points to get it to 100%. I am fine with where rage is at, Although i never played it before they made the changes to smash so i don't really know where it was before.

 

I can't play Juggernaut without Unstoppable in PvP; it's so good, lol. People burn CC pretty much every time I use charge.

[denpic]

I Really Enjoy playing my vig guardian

And don't think they Need a Buff I see them as a support class dps or

Tank spec using Gaurding and taunts sustained damage and finishing off players

I can 1v1 most classes and solo cap Nodes all the time

also when teamed with a healer or a dps with high burst can really

Mess folks up

 

Also don't rate performance by damage in a good wz with healing I avg around 250k - 300

Which is Low compared to others but it all single target no aoe padding (referring to vig)

My dispatch crit around 4.5k which is plenty to finish someone off

 

I can't See the need for A Buff without loosing some utility

As For Defenses we have plenty between force choke, push leap awe and shield Will Give Ample Time To Stall for reinforcements

Edited June 1, 2012 by denpic

[Knockerz]

I play a Guardian as my main and don't think they need a buff. The problem is a shadow and maura are both op and need a nerf. If maura want to do the damage they are doing they need to be more of glass canon. There is no reason why maur/sentinel should have more survivability in pvp while having more damage than a jugg/guardian. Either sentinel do less damage or their survival needs to be nerf. I don't mind doing less damage than a sentinel, but its a one sided when sentinels outclass guardians in both survivability and in damage. That's just begging Guardians to reroll sentinel. Shadow players are also op for the same reasons that sentinels are op. They do too much damage while retaining too much survivability. Edited June 1, 2012 by Knockerz

[dcgregorya]

You don't really have a clue as to what kind of 'spec' a fully defense committed Guardian/Jugg has, nor seem to be able to separate a typical Soresu-Offensive G/J with defense G/J.

 

 

 

Yep.

 

You really didn't read any of the stuff I've written concerning a Jugg/Guardian fully committing himself to the defensive.

 

 

Way to say nothing at all. Check it out I can quote and say nothing too.

[kweassa]

Except you need to take damage for the heal to activate, so you can't LoS that sniper and heal yourself.

 

PWND

 

Conceptually, that's to be considered more of a flat damage reduction with limited charges(10), rather than a hea... since anything over around 400~600 damage will be hurting you more than you are healed for.

[kweassa]

Way to say nothing at all. Check it out I can quote and say nothing too.

 

What's there is to say anything about, when you haven't even read the basic premise that Guardians/Juggs that go full defensive are under discussion?

 

Everything I've talked about so far, is about full tank-mode G/Js who do not go down the path of taking offensive gear or offensive build/spec. With heavy restrictions into Focus building and generating, as well as 0 offense boost a real defense/immortal G/J hardly goes over 1,000dps, and cracks lower than 5k damage even when all three rounds of Mster Strike/Ravage hit. Even on 3 consecutive crits, it deals something like 1.6k + 1.6k + 3.2k, which is the figures I was already reaching when I was lv45 with a Sentinel.

 

Ofcourse, going into fully defensive investment has its repercussions, and the pathetic damage count is to be expected. Nobody's complaining about that. The complaint is that the extra defense provided through such heavy investment and large sacrifice, does not make the defensive Guardian/Jugg build any more survivable than any other offense-oriented G/J build - at least, to any meaningful lengths.

 

Hence, I've mentioned that the full-defensive build works at the 1-49 bracket with limited effect, when the enemies you are going up against have generally lower crit chances and overall damage capacity, as well as lower average accuracy . Once after the lv50 bracket, even with relic boosts the defense rating will not stop damage long enough to bring down someone with your pathetic damage..... actually, you can't even hold long enough to keep someone else alive, when you're receiving DoTs that come in unmitigated 1.2k per pop every second.

Edited June 1, 2012 by kweassa

[dcgregorya]

You don't really have a clue as to what kind of 'spec' a fully defense committed Guardian/Jugg has, nor seem to be able to separate a typical Soresu-Offensive G/J with defense G/J.

 

 

 

Yep.

 

You really didn't read any of the stuff I've written concerning a Jugg/Guardian fully committing himself to the defensive.

 

 

Way to say nothing at all. Check it out I can quote and say nothing too.

[kweassa]

Way to say nothing at all. Check it out I can quote and say nothing too.

 

Then I'll just simply mention, "try playing one before commenting". Common response even you'd understand.

[Smashbrother]

Read the thread. The question was how do you heal after LOS'ing a sniper that opens on you. And yes it takes 10 seconds to get out of combat. Is that a long time in a 15 minute warzone?

 

I get that you're trolling, but then again I'm not here crying that I need boosts, I do just fine no matter what I play. You'll note I post on pretty much every "wah I need mohr power" thread because IMHO the game is pretty balanced right now with one or two notable exceptions.

 

All this thread has proven is that most people who post on the forums asking for buffs for guardians and ever other class either don't understand their class, don't understand the enemy's class or don't understand how to PVP properly. You have half the thread saying defensive stats are useless and any sniper will tell you they aren't. You have half the thread saying guardians are too easy to kite while they have a spammable snare. It goes on and on with the badness. Back and forths like this are why people just say L2P because if you invested half this time in learning to play your class or playing the classes that you think are so overpowered you'd be a much better PVPer.

 

First, you really shouldn't be posting on these forums if you don't even know what a heal is. Enure/endure pain is not a heal. The health disappears when the cd wears off. Second, 10 seconds in pvp doing nothing is a REALLY long time (in order to get get OOC you literally can't do anything). The fact that you don't understand this indicates you're not very good.

 

The funniest thing about your posts though is that you say you do fine no matter what class you play. Of course you do, you play a sent, vanguard, and scoundrel. You play all overpowered classes. Gratz?

[corebit]

If Guardians are fine like many of you are claiming.

Then Vanguards/Powertechs and Shadow/Assassins need a nerf?

 

Cause everything Guardians do these ACs can do a lot better.

[MorgothQuick]

The only thing Guardians/Juggernauts need damage buffs for are bringing their damage over time attacks up-to par with what a sentinel/marauder does (but with one saber).

 

Other than that they're pretty balanced, although I would like it if force leap/intercede removed snares/slows, so they could actually escape/get to their target (ofc this would have to be used tactically as both moves have cds, and said snares/slows could just be re-applied). Currently roots are the bane of the Guardian/Juggernaut, and can easily be killed while rooted by ranged.

[Werdan]

If Guardians are fine like many of you are claiming.

Then Vanguards/Powertechs and Shadow/Assassins need a nerf?

 

Cause everything Guardians do these ACs can do a lot better.

 

I've never seen a Sin or PT leap/push/leap/Intercede their way from mid to nearly the goal line in the matter of a few globals. I've also never seen them AOE crit for 6K. I've also never seen one with 30k health either that took 4 people about 30 seconds to kill.

 

I think you should reword that last line to anything a poorly played class can do a well played one can do better. I already have 4 level 50's. I don't feel like leveling another right now. Once 1.3 comes where we can tweak xp gains a bit I'll make new toons of all these so called UP classes and make people QQ about how OP they are.

[Dracosz]

I'm honestly considering starting my stream up again just to show how wrong most of you whiners and naysayers are. If only queues would pop, maybe I would give a damn. As is, the only WZs I seem to get in are after I raid >_>

[Dracosz]

If Guardians are fine like many of you are claiming.

Then Vanguards/Powertechs and Shadow/Assassins need a nerf?

 

Cause everything Guardians do these ACs can do a lot better.

 

False in every regard. Assassin tanks don't have the same degree of control that juggernaut tanks do nor do they have the same degree of overall map mobility. PT tanks and Sin tanks really only edge out juggernaut tanks with regard to overall damage.

 

Juggernaut DPS actually have a better capacity to protect than sin and pt dps due to the fact that they have a low opportunity cost to switch to soresu and toss out guard. Taunts are something that all 3 share in common so differentials in that regard are really just relegated to overall player skill. Both juggernaut DPS trees have very strong mobility and provide strong single target burst (multi-target in rage's case). Vengeance's overall damage is as good as PT damage and while the burst isn't as strong as sin burst, juggernauts can last a lot longer in the fray than either PTs or sins.