Smashbrother Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 And? Vanguards and PT's are the only other tank (not including Assassins), and they have only one real defensive CD that reduces damage by 25% and we can only use it once every two minutes. When you don't have your defensive abilities up, you are still tanky because of your shield generator, higher passive damage reduction, and increased dodge chance. First off, tank stats are mostly worthless. Secondly, tank vanguards have better overall dam mitigation and more dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Great thing for Guards/Juggs will be, if Riposte reflect back on enemy not only melee attacks, but ranged and force (lightning) attacks too - like in movie Obi-Wan or Mace Windu reflect back blaster fire and force lightnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Zorth_ Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You must be terrible at playing a jugg.. As a tank I can keep half the enemy team busy with all my CD's up, defending a node until my team mates come and help. As a DPS I can kill healers in 5 seconds, I have great tools for interrupting their casts and insane damage. The Jugg is perfect as it is, BW should either buff the other classes so that we don't stomp on them or nerf the juggs just by a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHRAL Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I think they should have just left Guardian alone in 1.2 because we were doing fine and didn't have many complaints about anything. People who are saying that they do too much damage don't understand that the people who get those numbers practice for months with different specs to be as good as they are, most guardians and juggernauts can't do that type of damage. Plus, I never had trouble killing any guardian with my sorcerer, and the sorcerer was considered "squishy" at the time. I hope Bioware sees this thread and changes the Guardian back to how it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzel Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Problem is guardian has a very high skill threshold. Similar to sage healers. They have a much tougher time excelling. On the 2 servers I've been on now the only guards who do well are in my guild for dps and maybe a couple Imps so far. Yea the tanks can live a long time but the dps guys are usually way under what assassins vanguards Snipers and marauders can do. focus spec puts up big number though. I'm close to full Wh as a shadow in all specs and I never seem to have problems with Juggs. I'm not saying to give them a big buff but especially compared to dents they seem weaker. Even on my dps sage I can kite and kill 2 quite frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veeius Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 You're doing lower damage, but you gain: mitigation, guard, the ability control team damage, plenty of CC, mobility. Seriously, read this guide already. Not for nothing, but it annoys me greatly when people say that tanks have guard, taunts, cc, mobility and so on - JUGGERNAUTS have all of that, reguardless of spec, though, technically they don't have a cc, they have a mezz. And when spec'd they have an instant stun (instead of a channel that also stuns the juggernaut). if you're going to tell someone they need to learn the class, I suggest you do so as well. Also, fyi, mass taunt doesn't lower an entire teams dps unless they are extraordinarily stupid. Juggernaut/guardian tanks don't get as much as you think for the dps they lose. They actually could stand a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) You must be terrible at playing a jugg.. As a tank I can keep half the enemy team busy with all my CD's up, defending a node until my team mates come and help. As a DPS I can kill healers in 5 seconds, I have great tools for interrupting their casts and insane damage. The Jugg is perfect as it is, BW should either buff the other classes so that we don't stomp on them or nerf the juggs just by a little. Actually, this would be a perfect example to why the tank stance/form/skill + DPS gear combo needs to be nerfed, and much of the defensive performance that allows such feats, to be moved exclusively to defense skill trees and/or made possible through exclusively tank gear, not DPS gear. IMO, the amount of mitigation provided by Soresu (through armor boost), needs to be tied to the defense/shield rating. Either that, or the current defense/immortal tree needs some kind of skill/talent that allows extra mitigation tied with defense/shield rating so that people using full tank gear can have a very noticeable effect into tanking performance - an amount fully high enough to compensate for the pathetic little damage we can dish out. This principle basically stands for all classes with a tanking tree - PT/Vng, Shad/Sin, Guard/Jugg Thus, the current fotm of Guardian/Jugg build - tanking form + DPS gear, they don't need any buff. If anything they need a slight nerf (which, is happening in 1.3, although 6% loss in damage is like... meh...). The Guardian/Juggs who need a buff are those who are using tanking form + tanking gear - since the effect of defense/shield rating is so pathetic in PvP right now. We don't want damage, we don't want any extra utility. If we take a high investment into defense/immortal tree, and if we use tanking gear, we'd naturally expect to be able to withstand enemy attacks that more efficiently than the hybrid defense+vigilance or immortal+vengeance. Since that ain't true currently(well, it's a bit true in the 1-49 bracket...), that's what we'd like the "real" tanky Guardian/Juggs to become. Edited June 17, 2012 by kweassa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applekirks Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) a vigilence guardian=a weaker sentinel The ability to taunt isnt going to kill/save anyone faster Using soresu to guard in vigilence=a tanksin with lower damage with no stealth Edited June 17, 2012 by applekirks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikeryo Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) they shoudl rip off some survivability cooldowns from mara/sent and give them to jugg/guardian. a vigilence guardian=a weaker sentinel The ability to taunt isnt going to kill/save anyone faster Using soresu to guard in vigilence=a tanksin with lower damage with no stealth don't underestimate the power of charge/intervene. Edited June 17, 2012 by Rikeryo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berulo Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Just my two cents, I've been playing Tank Guardian and have done quite well for myself in pvp. The key to it for me anyway, is being the "team player." I found I always performed my best using my tanking abilities to mitigate the proper dmg from teamates at the right times. Situational awareness is huge (like any properly played class) and also naturally, don't worry about doing dmg, your a tank and it's not the job. My only dmg focus, was to apply my armor debuffs on enemies in an engagement that needed to be focused, and laying the proper stuns/mezzes etc. So for me, Tank Guardian has been alot of fun and I've had success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Just because guardians are not op, it doesn't mean they need a buff... they're perfectly fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Just because guardians are not op, it doesn't mean they need a buff... they're perfectly fine This !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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