Is Gunnery as bad as they say?

[Koru]

Of course the forum isn't the best cross section of people to test from but it seems from these forums that commandos are broken. I really love the idea of a gunnery commando, should I wait until they fix them? Or is it not as bad as the whiners would have you think?

[NateJB]

There will always be whinning when people cant play the class that is no longer overpowered or easy anymore. But in my opinion gunnery spec is fine. Edited May 29, 2012 by NateJB
misspelling

[Ryat]

I enjoy the Gunnery. Have no issues with it. Mind you I don't PvP with that character but I don't see anything "broken".

[Hudgaar]

Gunnery is -not- fine in pvp. Enjoy standing still and spamming grav round the two times it takes soemnoe to go hey, free kill and then kill you. Perhaps if you enjoy running back to battle more often then standing and fighting, gunnery may be the spec for you.

 

Or if you enjoy being a gimped, non vanguard, powertech assault pyro. You might find enjoyment in the assault spec.

[Koru]

Is it fine in PVE?

[Hudgaar]

I don't pve, only pvp, so I couldn't tell you.

[Reavana]

Is it fine in PVE?

 

Yes. It does fine in PvE. It might be a few percentage points behind other Ranged Builds, but I have been able to complete everything I have thrown at it with my Gun. Commando.

[Gyronamics]

Gunnery is fine.

 

In campaign it can do over 1600dps and for clearing pve content even 1000dps is fine.

 

Raid experience and discipline is what really matters.

[CaptFalc]

Its a fun class to play, you'll never not be wanted/needed in a raid as you pack a punch. Like the others stated though, PVP can be difficult, but they're fixing our class so maybe this will all change anyway.

[HTPRO]

pvp = bad

pve is doable but I like assault more due to better ammo management and better dps while moving

[NeverRose]

I don't really care about PvE so from PvP perspective...

 

 

Gunnery is unplayable against any competetive premade.

[ArchangelLBC]

I only PVE and for that I quite enjoy it. Lots of fun, and so far it seems we've been able to take on everything we've been asked to.

[MrSIlverSurfing]

I think they are ok in PVE. They are terrible in PVP IMO and I would much rather have a sent in my group. Edited May 31, 2012 by MrSIlverSurfing

[MustangKing]

Gunnery is fine.

 

In campaign it can do over 1600dps and for clearing pve content even 1000dps is fine.

 

Raid experience and discipline is what really matters.

 

i would love to see it do 1600 dps i really would ive maxed my guy as much as i can with full raid buffs and exotech stim on i am over 2200 aim i never have an ammo issue because i learned my rotation a few hammer shots and your ammo is basically always full but that being said 1600 is pushing it

[Poe_]

Pre-50 pvp Gunnery is fine - 50 pvp it needs help.

 

Utterly viable and a dps leader in PvE (at least the potential to be such!).

 

Even in PvP btw, if you know how to LOS, and pick your targets accordingly, you're fine. Just a very tough class to be really good at, so many folks say 'broken in pvp.'

[Midden]

Yes it is perceived as bad at the moment:

 

My Gunnery gets excluded from Guild events if there is a "better class" available:

PVE: excluded from guild hard modes... because no interupts, they rather take Gunslingers:

PVP: and again they rather take Gunslingers for range DPS option if that option is available.

 

A lot of this is so called perception. I think it does ok.

 

The Gunnery is easy to play and good for solo stuff.

[Boufsa]

PVE: excluded from guild hard modes... because no interupts, they rather take Gunslingers

=> Gunslinger can't throw a rez combat. When someone die and both healers are too focused healing to make it themselves, the help of the dps commando is appreciated.

=> Gunslinger can't scan for fufus. In many fight this abilitiy is really appreciated

=> Gunslinger can't dispel physical dots, and the sages can't either. Once again the dispel from the commando is really appreciated.

=> Last but not least, commaondos can mezz everything every 45s, while gunslinger are limited to robots.

Plus there seem to be a weird latency with the gunslinger's interruption activation which makes it less reliable.

 

=> For all those reasons I am not excluded when competing with a gunslinger for a hard mode

 

 

PVP: and again they rather take Gunslingers for range DPS option if that option is available.

 

Commandos are viable in pvp, but they require much more skill than in pve and most players can't adapt. See the guide in my signature.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Boufsa

[oaceen]

A lot of this is so called perception.

 

i think that this is the root of the problem personally.

 

 

for ops, all the commandos in my guild switched to assault (or to vanguard) except me. i love assault for PVP and still use it for ops sometimes (especially for fights where you have to constantly run around), but gunnery i think is better.

and that said, i've been asked more and more lately to heal instead of dps. no one ever says 'we really need your dps for this, we'll find another healer.' it's the other way around.

if commandos didn't have that dual role, i'm not sure if i would even have one.

 

when i do dps, i do just fine, but my commando dps has been replaced by shadow, vanguard, gunslinger, and guardian dps in ops groups so that i could heal instead.

 

 

 

for pvp, i got assault. i haven't bothered with gunnery since i was about lv40.

if they just added to curtain of fire full auto being immune to pushback and interrupts, it wouldn't be so bad.

the feature wouldn't even be unique. my tanking shadow's telekinetic throw is immune to pushback and interrupts with the right talents.

and it slows natively without having to spend points on a talent.

on top of that, i can boost the damage by 75% and heal myself for 9%. all of that for just 2 points.

 

for full auto, commandos can slow, boost damage by 58%, and reset the cooldown every 6s.

all of that for 6 points.

 

i suppose being able to reset the cooldown is a feature commandos have that shadows don't, but telekinetic throw is on a native 6s cooldown.

 

 

 

gunslingers can go under cover and make themselves immune to interrupts, leaps, pulls, ability pushback, and, for up to 20s of every minute, immune to all forms of CC

 

 

 

gunnery can be locked down and has literally no defense against it other than a 75% reduction in ability pushback.

combat medics can make themselves immune to interrupts and ability pushback 12-15s every 3 minutes. that's it.

assault has absolutely nothing. and with the way the trees are setup, for me i have to choose between 75% ability pushback reduction to full auto and charged bolts by going 10 into gunnery OR 3% ranged/tech crit from 3 points in combat medic.

 

commandos can of course use charged bolts after grav round is interrupted for charged barrier, but you're still losing out on cell charger and charged barrel.

assault can still get the free HIB from full auto as long as it at least starts to fire.

combat medic has other heals.

the fact is though, commandos rely on so many cast-time abilities and has no defense, while other classes that don't even rely on them (shadow) have amazing defenses for it, and gunslingers can make themselves a stationary platform of death.

 

 

 

 

i know there are lots of other things to consider, and imo gunnery is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, but the perception is that commandos can be shutdown completely in pvp and other classes just do just as much if not much more dps (and more easily) in pve

Edited June 5, 2012 by oaceen

[oaceen]

=> Gunslinger can't throw a rez combat. When someone die and both healers are too focused healing to make it themselves, the help of the dps commando is appreciated.

=> Gunslinger can't scan for fufus. In many fight this abilitiy is really appreciated

=> Gunslinger can't dispel physical dots, and the sages can't either. Once again the dispel from the commando is really appreciated.

=> Last but not least, commaondos can mezz everything every 45s, while gunslinger are limited to robots.

Plus there seem to be a weird latency with the gunslinger's interruption activation which makes it less reliable.

 

=> For all those reasons I am not excluded when competing with a gunslinger for a hard mode

 

 

 

 

Commandos are viable in pvp, but they require much more skill than in pve and most players can't adapt. See the guide in my signature.

just throwing this out there and tying it to my above post, yes a commando can do all of those things, but there's no reason to take specifically a dps commando (unless you desperately need a 45s CD on your mezz, which i would find ludicrous) over a healing one if you need an anything mezz / in-combat rezz / physical cleanse, etc.

and of course a healing commando would be better suited for the rezz/cleanse anyway.

 

and i'm assuming by 'fufus' you mean stealthed targets. other than HK-47 and some trash pulls in denova, i don't see any need for a stealth scan. even then, it is not at all required or even all that helpful (since the stealth is so short).

on top of that, assault vanguards do it better anyway.

[azhrione]

I think the viability of Gunnery is heavily dependent on your team in both PVE and PVP. For example in PVP I try to carry around a friendly Vanguard, Tank or Assault spec, does not matter. They have two roles in regards to keeping me up and running, taunting and harpooning any Marauder/Assassins that get in too close. My job is typically to keep him in Focus and Alt-T whatever target he is working on then BURN. I will also toss an occasional heal, cleanse, CC if needed, but the coordination makes us both better. We have had WZ where we both topped 450k damage and 80 kills each with zero deaths.

 

Sage works as well, but requires a little more skill on the Sage's part since they cannot get funky with the bad guys. Hybrid Sage works best, and their role is keeping a shield on me, CC, and rescue if I get charged by Melee. Sage tends to work better with another Sage or a GS, and I prefer to have a friendly Vanguard.

 

In PVE it is no different, if your server has enough people to be doing 16 man Ops, then I am not surprised you are being excluded since a GS is almost always better than a Gunnery Commando in PVE. However in 8 man Ops it is hard to replace what a Gunnery Commando brings, specifically Grav Vortex , Tech Cleanses, off heals, and superior DPS all in the same package.

 

It may be easy to claim that the need for others to support their role makes Gunnery not viable, but that is a short sighted picture and good players will always trump class balance.

[Jherad]

I We have had WZ where we both topped 450k damage and 80 kills each with zero deaths. .

 

So not 600k then, which is what the Vanguard I regularly run with hits (in fact, it is an unusual match where he doesn't hit 500k in our premade). There is a sniper we play against fairly frequently who often does more.

 

There is very little a gunnery commando can do that another ranged class can't do significantly better. Heck, I've seen Juggernauts do 450k.

[azhrione]

So not 600k then, which is what the Vanguard I regularly run with hits (in fact, it is an unusual match where he doesn't hit 500k in our premade). There is a sniper we play against fairly frequently who often does more.

 

There is very little a gunnery commando can do that another ranged class can't do significantly better. Heck, I've seen Juggernauts do 450k.

 

Comparing a sub par class with an over powered class already due a nerf isn't really fair, and raw numbers are not really the point here. Still I'll take a good Gunnery Commando over an average Vanguard every time.

 

Heck I've hit 600k with my Commnado as Assault, big numbers are not an indication of viability just that the other team had good healers and the game went long.

[Blindfreak]

Commando DPS for PVE is good atm. I have run Denova as both Gunnery and Assault, and Gunnery wins out, but Assault is still competitive.

 

I run MoxParser to keep track of how i am doing in raids, and for Gunnery, burst sessions get me anywhere from 1850 to 2k depending on if i am able to stand and blast away or if i have to move. Sustained i do 1500-1700. The higher end of that all depends on if i am able to Stand and blast or if i have to constantly move.

 

Assault runs about 200-300 lower on average for both burst and sustained for me, but then i don't really run Assault very much.

 

Commandos are competitive right now, even if we are on the lower end of the bracket atm. The nerfs we received were justified to a degree, but i do think bioware took it a little far. One time on Garj 16m NMM back in Feb we were running 5 Gunnery commandos, and this was when Gunnery benefited from other Gunnery commandos armor debuff. I got a 16k Demo round crit. Even i have to say that is WAY to OP. That fix was entirely justified.

 

After that i was doing 8-9k Demo round crits. And then came the Demo/Grav/Chraged nerf. Those imo were NOT justified to that degree. Nerf it a little bit, but dont nerf it by 40 frekin percent. Screw the whiners in PVP who QQ cause they get 3 or 4 shot by us Gunnery commandos. When they brought those nerfs because of pvp ************ and then the reckless expertise buff, i stopped pvping, so my viewpoint on pvp is a little outdated, but i digress.

 

Gunnery/Assault ARE competitive right now in PVE. If anyone tells you otherwise, ignore them. If your guild tells you you cant come to a raid because you are commando DPS, gquit and find a guild that will take you for being a good PLAYER, not a guild that will take you for being a certain class. Guilds like that NEVER last.

 

Just my two cents.

[Boufsa]

no reason to take specifically a dps commando over a healing one if you need an anything mezz / in-combat rezz / physical cleanse, etc.

and of course a healing commando would be better suited for the rezz/cleanse anyway.

 

Ok so you are saying that rather than forming a group with 2 tanks 2 heals 4 dps, you will take 3 healers 3 dps rather than taking a commando as the 4th dps? Stop joking, there are fights where both healers are already very busy keeping their tank and the raid and don't have time for in-combat rezz or physical cleanse, and as I said all healers can't do physical cleanse.

 

Some examples:

• if you go to karraga nightmare with two sages as the healers, you will need a commando dps do the physical cleanses against jarg & sorno or have very strong sages which don't bother about mana.
  
• on Denova HM on boss 1 et 2, healers are very busy and don't have time for in-combat rezz, that's a job for a commando dps.
  
• in the eternity vault in the step two of the fight against soa in nightmare mode, the easier way to go through is to ask the commando dps to switch to assist healer on the main tank while the healers will be in the air, in jail or running to take their lightining ball.
  
• In any boss fight if both healers are dead, the commando can switch to heal mode to finish the fight, for example in the fight against zorn and toth's supervisor, if both sages were taken out during the end of zorn and toth's fight.
  

 

From you further replies I can see that you are focused on the stats, but a very optimized commando can do even more dps than any other regular dps that didn't take a lot time in optimizing like most of them do because they don't feel like they need to. Take time doing some math, read the forum, analyze your combat logs, switch some augments in your armor, and once you are fully optimized, you will be on par with your friends and when BW will re-up the commando you will be unrivaled. FYI I am currently on par with the strongest dps of my guild and I can do much more than them and their pure dps for the success of the fight with my cleanse and in-combat rezz abilities which makes me indispensable, and I have been from all the raids lately.

 

About the pvp I will let you check the guide from my signature, but let me tell you one thing: a commando which would do great numbers in terms of dps on the scoreboard would probably be a bad commando, because in most BGs, commandos have to do a lot of little tasks that don't leave big marks on the scoreboard, but are still very usefull for their team and can lead to the victory without them even realizing you were the one making them win.

 

IMO you are the most responsible for your guild not taking you in the raid since you yourself think like them instead of trying to surpass the class limitations by work and over-optimization.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Boufsa

[oaceen]

Ok so you are saying that rather than forming a group with 2 tanks 2 heals 4 dps, you will take 3 healers 3 dps rather than taking a commando as the 4th dps?

oh, grow up.

 

i'm not QQing about commandos. i made a valid counter-argument for the sake of discussion and nothing else, and you're making a bunch of counter-arguments to things i never said or even implied.

if you read my posts in this thread, you would know clearly my position.

 

 

but these:

IMO you are the most responsible for your guild not taking you in the raid since you yourself think like them instead of trying to surpass the class limitations by work and over-optimization.

From you further replies I can see that you are focused on the stats

show that you have obviously NOT been reading my posts.

Edited June 6, 2012 by oaceen