Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Then if you count it that way for TOR, then you must count it that way for every other game. Which means that TOR is still in the nominal launch surge/dropoff curve. Do you really believe that this game has over 1m subs? most conservative estimates ive seen are 800k at best. Its been 2 months since the 1.3 number, and nothing has been added to the game, servers keep shrinking making more people leave, even the "full servers" are shrinking, I really want this game to succeed but power of positive thinking and just lying to yourself is not going to help it. Theres only one thing that can save this game and that is for the devs to realize their mistakes and fix them as fast as they can. And i dont see that when i see a dev say what daniel erickson said, i see a stuborn idealistic single player game developer still hell bent on forcing the mmo player base to bend to his will despite the blinding truth of a catastrophic exodus of the player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) For a company that boasts of story-telling, SWTOR seriously lacks cohesive end game story line. Lack of synergy between class stories is also a massive issue with me. Having played the bounty hunter and Sith Inquistor story lines, I almost feel like I am existing in 2 parrallel SWTOR universe. There are no convergence of story lines. Why am I grouping with this Bounty hunter for this flash point? Beisdes Black Talon, none of the FP really fit into the game - they exist like individual entity. Yes, yes, yes. I mentionned this in another thread last week. I would have killed for intersecting story lines with other players. I was even expecting them to do it because they were BioWare... but alas, no... the Austin team is just Mythic and SOE flunkies. Edited May 30, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Unlike some people, I can look past the low server population. I'm unsubbing and I'll give it another go when they finally get transfers in, I'm just unwilling to reroll. - I would be, too. And I have never advocating rerolling. I've advocated waiting. I've also fully acknowledged that BioWare took way too long to implement this. WAAAAYYY too long. Is it a game breaker for me? No. However, when I was running flashpoints and ops every night, it was crystal clear that those parts of the game were far inferior to the class stories. There isn't a single flashpoint in this game in which I could name every boss encounter by name, because they're that bloody unmemorable. The flashpoints exist in a vacuum that has no place in the world BioWare created because none of the bosses (except for 2) make any appearances outside of the flashpoints. They also only come in more or less three flavors (there are exceptions) generic soldiers, sith/jedi #4965, big assault droid. You have no rapport with any of these bosses prior to fighting them. - One thing I've stated quite a few times is that the endgame FPs, HMs, and Ops are simply too easy. If you had to spend several days just trying to get past a boss, you'd remember them. Almost guaranteed. Also, if the difficulty was on par with other MMOs, people wouldn't be finishing them nearly as fast. Difficulty needs to be increased. Game breaker for me? Nope. There is no villain for players to struggle against as a community (important in a theme park - Lich King, Deathwing, etc). This makes people lose focus because there is no goal after you hit 50 other than grinding gear. Why am I grinding gear? The purpose should be clear: because this vastly evil dude is hitting us on all fronts and is coming down on you to end you, so gear up scrub. This villain's influence should be felt almost everywhere at cap. Every class has their own little villain to hunt until they hit 50, then people unsub or reroll for that reason. - That's a feature, actually. I know, you don't like it, but story buffs like me LOVE it. Soon, though, once the World Arc storyline advances to all-out war, the "vastly evil dude" will be the Emperor. I think it's worth waiting for as we build up to it by experiencing the perspective of several class characters. Again, subjective. PVP? It could be the solution to the second paragraph, but instead it is a meaningless sideshow - but they made a PVE game. I get that. - Yeah. I've ranted several times about OPvP, and the lack of at least some information on that. It's reaching pathetic levels. I ask about what they're currently revamping for OPvP in every weekly Q&A, without a peep about it. Game breaker for me? Nope. I could go on. And this is where we get to the nuts and bolts of my point: it's all personal perspective. It's all subjective. I agree with all of this. Answers in red above. We are upset about the same things, just about. The only difference between you and I is that I don't let a few issues like that cloud the good that is actually in this game. Like Warzones. Those are obviously a big hit with players. The stats at the Guild Summit showed that reality. Again, it's a choice. And no one should be vilified or called names for their personal decision of how they choose to view those fallacies. After all, no developer on the planet is infallible, nor will they ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Do you really believe that this game has over 1m subs? most conservative estimates ive seen are 800k at best. Right now? No, I do not. I agree with the 800k number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 How about Bioware makes two different server types. An MMORPG server for those who want to play an RPG style MMO without X-Server and then an MMO server which will feature just X-Server among the servers that are joined with it. They can also remove all the world content and have everyone start at level 10 on the fleet and they can just hit their magic FP/Ops/WZ button all day long Your narcissism is shinning brightly as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 How about Bioware makes two different server types. An MMORPG server for those who want to play an RPG style MMO without X-Server and then an MMO server which will feature just X-Server among the servers that are joined with it. They can also remove all the world content and have everyone start at level 10 on the fleet and they can just hit their magic FP/Ops/WZ button all day long And this is just one more example of why nobody thinks you are in touch with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Right now? No, I do not. I agree with the 800k number. then what % of subs did you lose if you subtract 800k from 1.7m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talarchy Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Your narcissism is shinning brightly as usual. Just learn that word yesterday did we lol? google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidrowbro Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 And this is just one more example of why nobody thinks you are in touch with reality. Yes, resort to more insults please:rolleyes: The only reason why people are so vocal about wanting the X-Server LFD is because that's all they want to do!!! Run FP's/Ops all day long. They don't care about the quests, they don't care about the world that the developers have created for them. Jesus, people are whining about having a docklng port for "our" spaceships and having to walk ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Right now? No, I do not. I agree with the 800k number. I would peg it around 800k as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) And this is where we get to the nuts and bolts of my point: it's all personal perspective. It's all subjective. I agree with all of this. Answers in red above. We are upset about the same things, just about. The only difference between you and I is that I don't let a few issues like that cloud the good that is actually in this game. Like Warzones. Those are obviously a big hit with players. The stats at the Guild Summit showed that reality. Again, it's a choice. And no one should be vilified or called names for their personal decision of how they choose to view those fallacies. After all, no developer on the planet is infallible, nor will they ever be. Great, we agree. You're just less opposed than I (and the other 700k who quit) to paying a sub fee for an MMO whose massive multiplayer portions don't justify the fee. Shrug. Warzones were pretty fun before 1.2. With the expertise change, they're punishing on a whole new level, and I no longer enjoy them. That's not a game breaker for me though. I didn't buy this game for PVP, and I avoided all PVP in WoW once arenas and resilience went in anyways, so it's not really a stretch for me. Edited May 30, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Yes, resort to more insults please:rolleyes: The only reason why people are so vocal about wanting the X-Server LFD is because that's all they want to do!!! Run FP's/Ops all day long. They don't care about the quests, they don't care about the world that the developers have created for them. Jesus, people are whining about having a docklng port for "our" spaceships and having to walk ffs. Exactly what world are you talking about? The one where there is no reason to ever go back to a lower level zone? It takes all of 3 weeks to clear that content. Edited May 30, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Yes, resort to more insults please:rolleyes: The only reason why people are so vocal about wanting the X-Server LFD is because that's all they want to do!!! Run FP's/Ops all day long. They don't care about the quests, they don't care about the world that the developers have created for them. Jesus, people are whining about having a docklng port for "our" spaceships and having to walk ffs. It wasnt really an insult, i was just pointing out the fact that you post crazy exagerated bs that can and never will happen to try to prove your point because you dont actualy have anything else to back up your arguement. Im vocal about the x server lfg because i think it will save this game, along with all the other things the devs thought a modern mmo didnt need and ignorantly left out. I play a tank as a main and a healer as an alt, and i am in a raid guild, i dont need a tool to get groups for me. but im not some idealistic idiot who would rather see this game fail than change with the times and win back and grow its player base. I know the majority of mmo players are not in progression raiding guilds, i know the majority of players are not hard core rp'rs. I know that the majority of mmo subs come from people who have 2 -3 hours a day to play and when they log on they just want to play a damn mmo, not scream lfg or sit in a que for 2 hours then have to log off discouraged. Edited May 30, 2012 by Mallorik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 You act like it's already created and in. How do you know it couldn't be created to work with that? Well adding characters from other server in non instanced areas would add many layers of issues like general chat, or tagging mobs, synchronizing characters from many different servers in a non instanced zone. I don't say it can't be done but it would be really time consuming to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I would peg it around 800k as well. Yes, 800k for now. Would project it to hit bottom at around 450K-500K by end of this year, where it will stay for a bit. By then EA/BW would have moved off their more experienced devs and designers into other projects and put SWTOR on the back burner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inzuher Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I actually tent to agree a little with the thread maker. Before this game was realist I was so hyped about it, and I continued being through the glories first moths... Now however, I'm honestly starting to get bored and playing less and less. One of the key factures most differently is the lag of players, and I think the X-server LFG-Tool would be a great help, since it allow you to find a group almost instantly. I really want to see this game succeed, and it's making me sad to see it lose subscribes... The three factors that annoy me must about this game is: 1. The lag of players to play with on low population servers (x-server group finder would be great for this + the new server transfer (hope it's free, and that i allows you to move your whole legacy at ones.) 2. Having to repeat the same boring side quests again and again AND AGAIN! I mean when a game is promoting alting as much as this game is, shouldn't they have made the class stories a bigger part of ones leveling experience? 3. The lag of factions beside Empire and Republic, far too many quests stars the conflict between these two, it's getting boring, and it really add to the feeling that the world is small and rather uninteresting. Wow, I might have gotten a little side tracked there.... Anyways the x-server LFG finder would be welcome addition in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWippenberg Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 WoW had to impliment one because people were not willing to pay $25 to transfer off of dead servers. Also after X-LFD came into WoW all world pvp became extinct and zones empty due to the fact that you didn't have to leave your home city. I do not think Bioware will be willing to let $300million or whatever their cost was go to waste with empty zones but I believe the new LFD will be instant teleporting to dungeons so if that's the case they may as well go all the way and make it x-server because they are already breaking immersion by doing it that way World PVP in WoW started to diminish once the first two Battlegrounds were released (Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch). It died when players were able to queue for Battlegrounds inside of capitol cities. This feature was introduced in Vanilla WoW. The devs made an attempt at revitalizing world PVP in the first expansion by introducing a few nodes throughout some zones that would give bonuses to the victor (more experience, access to special vendors, etc). It wasn't long before these objectives became ghost towns. The only way you'll see an influx in planet population and world PVP is if: 1-Warzones are removed 2-Players are required to travel to specific locations to access dungeons You know as well as the rest of us that no developer in his/her right mind will do this. Warhammer Online had at least one section in each zone called "PVP Lakes" with fortresses that could be sieged and nodes that could be captured for bonuses. Successfully taking a fortress yielded a chance for high quality loot and no one walked away empty handed. At the worst you got a sack of coins and could choose between some crafting mats or blue/green gear (more cash if you didn't need to gear and vendored it). In summation, the planets in this game need to have noteworthy things to do if you want to see an increase in planet population and world PVP. As it is, the planets are simply "stages," like you would see in a single player game. A cross server LFG system won't subtract from the planet populations because they're non-existent to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 then what % of subs did you lose if you subtract 800k from 1.7m? Yeah, good call. My mind on that 50% drop post was still stuck in April. My bad. Brain fart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Well adding characters from other server in non instanced areas would add many layers of issues like general chat, or tagging mobs, synchronizing characters from many different servers in a non instanced zone. I don't say it can't be done but it would be really time consuming to do so. No, I meant excluding X-server from area heroics. X-server active for only instanced group content where the "dungeons" can actually be merged in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Yes, 800k for now. Would project it to hit bottom at around 450K-500K by end of this year, where it will stay for a bit. By then EA/BW would have moved off their more experienced devs and designers into other projects and put SWTOR on the back burner. This is the part I don't agree with. Server transfers that are coming in June will have a much bigger positive impact that you give credit. Just read through this thread for the indication of that. (Indication, not proof.) BTW, I link that thread as an indication of the uplift of morale, not saying that people should reroll. It's an indication of the uplift of morale that will occur once transfers are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Yes, 800k for now. Would project it to hit bottom at around 450K-500K by end of this year, where it will stay for a bit. By then EA/BW would have moved off their more experienced devs and designers into other projects and put SWTOR on the back burner. Nah they could still totaly pull this game out of the gutter. If they can get all the key features they refused to add to the game in the first 6 months in and working in time they can atleast stop people from leaving. Then swtor has a trick to get people back to their game that no other mmo, even wow does not have. Jump to lightspeed 2.0 aka 3d space flight. Expansions bring players back to check it out. I think a 3d space expansion would bring back an amazing amount of players, and if the game is up to date and running smoothly when they do that, theyll keep alot of those subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AH-Mael Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I rerolled and hit 50 last night. The server I am on had a way better pop when I started than it does now. It is still decent but I can see a definite decline. Also, what a huge pain to have to reroll and leave all my other characters behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Transfer wont bring me back, Super servers will not bring me back. New zones will not bring me back ether. The only thing that will bring me back will be cross server tools! Swtor needs to get uptday with the modern age mmo market. Game like world of warcraft and Rift are adding cross server tools as fast and they can develop them and swtor is sinking in the mud with there old fashion server community concepts! Rift has cross server chats on their pts, wow has cross server open world zones coming. MMO ( Massively multiplayer online) I want to play wit has many other people as possible not be limited to a small gated community! Swtor fails at MMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Transfer wont bring me back, Super servers will not bring me back. New zones will not bring me back ether. The only thing that will bring me back will be cross server tools! Swtor needs to get uptday with the modern age mmo market. Game like world of warcraft and Rift are adding cross server tools as fast and they can develop them and swtor is sinking in the mud with there old fashion server community concepts! Rift has cross server chats on their pts, wow has cross server open world zones coming. MMO ( Massively multiplayer online) I want to play wit has many other people as possible not be limited to a small gated community! Swtor fails at MMO! Welcome back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Yes, 800k for now. Would project it to hit bottom at around 450K-500K by end of this year, where it will stay for a bit. Wasn't 500k the breakeven target, before any cost cutting measures? Edited May 30, 2012 by Kthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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