Daniel Erickson thinks X-Server LFG is last resort

[siegedeluxe]

Here's a clue, Daniel: I am not looking for some 'last resorts' in your service product. I want the convenience to play with millions of strangers, anonymously over the Internet, with the convenience of pressing a button and the magic happening.

 

This paragraph x100 times. =)

[siegedeluxe]

There is no system of queues where you can choose same server over cross server. Your don't like it, don't use it argument is just stupid and invalid. People want a queue with the transporter and they want to be grouped with players from their own server. Players who will have to be concerned with their reputation, or else risk being shunned by their community. There's no such thing as a cross server reputation. Your chat channels do not travel cross server. People don't know guilds and players from other servers.

 

If a same server grouping tool isn't good enough for you, then don't play this game. How you like them apples?

 

In a few months time when more people have left this game you'll be begging for x-server lfg, and you are going to come to these boards complaining with a fit.

[RocNessMonster]

At least everyone had fun*.

 

WoW didn't need it. Their servers were doing great and still are. SWTOR needs it. TOR's servers are crashing and crashing badly.

 

Whoa whoa, WOW servers are not doing great. The majority of US EST servers contain less then 500 players concurrently. WOW has been losing subs for a year over the same issue as here, dead servers. 200-300 players on your faction isn't massive, my high school had 10x as many enrolled.

[siegedeluxe]

Whoa whoa, WOW servers are not doing great. The majority of US EST servers contain less then 500 players concurrently. WOW has been losing subs for a year over the same issue as here, dead servers. 200-300 players on your faction isn't massive, my high school had 10x as many enrolled.

 

Once MoP get's released... people will come back, it's the nature of the beast.

[Tiek]

i was originally against x server anything. ive changed my mind. and hey mr. erickson, i think its about time to start considering some of those last resorts before its too late.

[Vlaxitov]

Why don't they give you two options. LFG (same server only) and LFG (Xserver). Why they have to settle for one or the other is beyond me. More options>less options

 

The only way to truely do that is to offer seperate server types, one that participates in X-server and one that doesen't.

 

Anything less and people who didn't want X-server are still dealing with the negativities that it brings.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Darkulous]

In a few months time when more people have left this game you'll be begging for x-server lfg, and you are going to come to these boards complaining with a fit.

 

No, they won't be begging because everyone who wants a X-server tool will have left the game. The anti-LFDers are more than happy to have this game all to themselves with a subscriber base of 300k-500k. The question is if BW/EA are ok with this. They made it quite clear, before release, that they wanted WoW type numbers. Sorry to say it, but you're not gonna get WoW type numbers without X-server technology. This game will always have grouping problems without that tool because FULL SUPER SERVERS will still have low peak hours.

[Styxx]

You like WoW and its X-Server LFG.. go play it.

I don`t like WoW.

 

This does not make me or you any more or less right.

 

This is SW:ToR, where logic states that, after server mergers AND cap increase, a same-server tool should work just fine, seeing how most content needs only 4 persons.

 

IF the new merged servers will go empty and the need for X-Server LFG will arise.. that WILL be the LEAST of Bioware`s problem. It might happen or it might not.

 

SO, you see, he is right. It is a last resort problem.

[Kemosobe]

In a few months time when more people have left this game you'll be begging for x-server lfg, and you are going to come to these boards complaining with a fit.

 

And in a few months time after everyone leaves because they are adding a LFG no-brain button, you will be crying for them to remove since all us people who have been staying for you to play with will have left. The LFG tool that was already in the game was useful enough, just people were too lazy to actually use it. You could click that you were looking for a party and people all across the server could see EVERYONE who had that tag on (assuming you knew how to search). It did need some refinement, but it was enough.

[DarthTHC]

And in a few months time after everyone leaves because they are adding a LFG no-brain button, you will be crying for them to remove since all us people who have been staying for you to play with will have left. The LFG tool that was already in the game was useful enough, just people were too lazy to actually use it. You could click that you were looking for a party and people all across the server could see EVERYONE who had that tag on (assuming you knew how to search). It did need some refinement, but it was enough.

 

Manually cranking car windows down works too... but I prefer a car that lets me push a button to do it.

 

There's nothing lazy about taking tedium, unnecessary delays, and boring manual tasks out of a GAME.

Edited May 30, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Styxx]

Manually cranking car windows down works too... but I prefer a car that lets me push a button to do it.

 

There's nothing lazy about taking tedium, unnecessary delays, and boring manual tasks out of a GAME.

 

..and when your cranking mechanism breaks, because the cable innings are made of cheap plastic and your mechanic tells you they sell full kits, not cable knobs... then you`ll miss the good old screw based manual car window.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Styxx

[Kemosobe]

Manually cranking car windows down works too... but I prefer a car that lets me push a button to do it.

 

There's nothing lazy about taking tedium, unnecessary delays, and boring manual tasks out of a GAME.

 

Adding in a no brain party former into the game is not taking tedium out of the game, that was what the original LFG tool was for. The new LFG tool is taking thought out of the game.

 

 

..and when your cranking mechanism breaks, because the cable innings are made of cheap plastic and your mechanic tells you they sell full kits, not cable knobs... then you`ll miss the good old screw based manual car window.

 

And I actually still own a car with manual windows for that reason.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Kemosobe

[Darkulous]

You like WoW and its X-Server LFG.. go play it.

I don`t like WoW.

Believe it or not, people do get bored playing the same game. Those players want to play other games but they want some of the features they enjoyed in WoW to be in this one. It's no different than going from a Toyota with an automatic transmission to a Ford with an automatic transmission.

 

 

This is SW:ToR, where logic states that, after server mergers AND cap increase, a same-server tool should work just fine, seeing how most content needs only 4 persons.

During Peak times you're right. But than BW will be cataring just to the players who are on at peak times.

IF the new merged servers will go empty and the need for X-Server LFG will arise.. that WILL be the LEAST of Bioware`s problem. It might happen or it might not.

 

I do 100% agree with you here. No amount of tools, X-server or not, will save this game if Servers continue to empty out. X-server LFD is not a "Last Resort" feature. It's just dumb to say that.

[Darkulous]

..and when your cranking mechanism breaks, because the cable innings are made of cheap plastic and your mechanic tells you they sell full kits, not cable knobs... then you`ll miss the good old screw based manual car window.

 

I left my driver side window down one freezing winter night in my '66 VW. Got in the next morning and tried to roll it back up and the gearings shattered. I had to drive that old bucket the rest of the winter with my window half way down:(.

 

Everything has the potential of breaking. Than it's just a matter of having the money or not to fix it.

[Gungan]

..and when your cranking mechanism breaks, because the cable innings are made of cheap plastic and your mechanic tells you they sell full kits, not cable knobs... then you`ll miss the good old screw based manual car window.

 

Except not having power windows lowers the resale value, and if you had half a brain you would go to a junk yard to get a used replacement and install it yourself for $50 bucks.

 

People buy new from the dealer and wonder why they get ripped off.

[Kemosobe]

Believe it or not, people do get bored playing the same game. Those players want to play other games but they want some of the features they enjoyed in WoW to be in this one. It's no different than going from a Toyota with an automatic transmission to a Ford with an automatic transmission.

 

And why would they go to an entirely different game made by an entirely different company and think to get the same exact experience? That is like going from Final Fantasy to Mass Effect and expect them to play exactly the same and have all the same mechanics and implementations simply because they are both RPGs.

[Styxx]

Believe it or not, people do get bored playing the same game. Those players want to play other games but they want some of the features they enjoyed in WoW to be in this one. It's no different than going from a Toyota with an automatic transmission to a Ford with an automatic transmission.

Fine and dandy, but they seem to lobby and try make this a WoW with lighsabers. And I don`t like WoW enough to be happy with it.

 

During Peak times you're right. But than BW will be cataring just to the players who are on at peak times.

We have East Coast / West Coast, Europe and Oceanic. This is not fishing in uncharted waters. You have clear timeframes, like the whole EU being covered mostly by 2 hours, with most Western Europe within the same timeframe.

 

If you are off-peak and constantly missing your Continent`s daylight, switch to a more convenient one = East Coast / West Coast, or Oceania. I fail to see your point.

 

I do 100% agree with you here. No amount of tools, X-server or not, will save this game if Servers continue to empty out. X-server LFD is not a "Last Resort" feature. It's just dumb to say that.

In light of the 2 solutions they have, that involve 1.3 mil subs to be condensed in more "Fatman like" servers, it is.

Solutions being server mergers AND introduction of said LFD in the first place.

 

When the new servers will go to the point where you can`t get a group even with LFD, we can guess the game will be down to max 200k subs, at which point it will no longer be SWTOR.. it will be "Bioware`s failed attempt at MMOs"

[Gungan]

And why would they go to an entirely different game made by an entirely different company and think to get the same exact experience? That is like going from Final Fantasy to Mass Effect and expect them to play exactly the same and have all the same mechanics and implementations simply because they are both RPGs.

 

Because the setting of the game and gameplay are still different. A matchmaking feature has nothing to do with how the game feels while you're playing it.

 

All you people are confusing actual gameplay with G.D. UI and back end features.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Gungan

[Darkulous]

And why would they go to an entirely different game made by an entirely different company and think to get the same exact experience? That is like going from Final Fantasy to Mass Effect and expect them to play exactly the same and have all the same mechanics and implementations simply because they are both RPGs.

 

You have a good point there. But EA/BW/LA did market this game as the next big thing. They made no secret that they were targeting WoW. Maybe many of us misinterpreted this. We didn't expect a "classic" MMO in some regards.

[Kemosobe]

Because the setting of the game and gameplay are still different. A matchmaking feature has nothing to do with how the game feels while you're playing it.

 

All you people are confusing actual gameplay with g.d. back end features.

 

So again, why would you go to a different game made by someone else and think it will be entirely the exact same game through and through? Although this was built on the traditional Everquest style of MMO that WoW also used, this is not WoW. Using that other person's comparison to cars, would you also go to a Toyota dealership expecting to get a Toyota built care that looks, feels, and runs EXACTLY like a Camaro (which is built by Chevy BTW)?

 

 

You have a good point there. But EA/BW/LA did market this game as the next big thing. They made no secret that they were targeting WoW. Maybe many of us misinterpreted this. We didn't expect a "classic" MMO in some regards.

 

And this isn't a classic MMO in any regard. Simply because YOU have to actually form the party and talk to people does not at all make this a "classic" MMO. It just means Bioware did not what those in the game. Kinda like some other people have said, maybe you should go back to the game you want this game to be instead of trying to conform this game to meet your standards.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Kemosobe

[JeramieCrowe]

I'm sure there is a miniscule percentage of the population who's brains fell out of their heads when a cross server LFD is introduced, but I think that most good people still tend to be good people. The fact that you suddenly were grouping with a "jerk" every night instead of once a week I bet had more to do with you doing more dungeons per night and less to do with people's brains suddenly falling out of their heads.

 

Most people are decent. But all it takes is 1 person out of 4 to ruin the experience. Or, in the case of Ops, 1 person out of 8. Or 1 person out of 16.

 

This whole debate is subjective and anecdotal. Everyone's experiences differ from the next. I can categorically tell you that, when using a X-server LFG, my personal experiences were about 90% bad. In Rift, for example, when the LFG first came it was same server. The experience at the time was about 40% bad, and people were posting in world or 50 chat the name of the idiot that pulled a stunt and what he did. It became more difficult for that person to get a group. And usually that person's attempt at a defense told the story.

 

Enter X-server. My personal experience is that the bad experience jumped from 40% to 90%, with no way to warn or call out the idiot. That person is more free to pull his shenanigans. Like I said, all it takes is one person.

 

Your experience, as you have related, is totally different. Then again, I have extremely bad luck with RNG, too.

 

So, an X-server toggle is the answer. It present us with choice since the nature of the tool provides anectodal and subjective experiences.

Edited May 30, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Gungan]

So again, why would you go to a different game made by someone else and think it will be entirely the exact same game through and through? Although this was built on the traditional Everquest style of MMO that WoW also used, this is not WoW. Using that other person's comparison to cars, would you also go to a Toyota dealership expecting to get a Toyota built care that looks, feels, and runs EXACTLY like a Camaro (which is built by Chevy BTW)?

 

Are you just going to keep ignoring that successful modern MMOs require often similar back end features?

 

It's the gameplay (combat, questing, etc) that is often the variable factor between different games.

 

Any Toyota and a Camaro both include an engine, brakes, windows, a steering wheel, a chassis, body panels in the most generic sense. That is what a LFG tool is. The way it feels to drive it is the gameplay portion. You could argue that the perfomance level of each part contributes to the overall experience, and it does... but all it shows is that having a lower quality part makes the ride worse: an underdeveloped back end feature in an MMO also makes the game itself worse.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Gungan

[Moondragon]

Gotta disagree with OP. X-Server LFG should be a last resort. Hell, merge servers before that ish happens.

[Kemosobe]

Are you just going to keep ignoring that successful modern MMOs require often similar back end features?

 

It's the gameplay that is often the defining factor between different games.

 

AnyToyota and a Camaro both include an engine, brakes, windows, a steering wheel, a chassis, body panels in the most generic sense. That is what a LFG tool is. The way it feels to drive it is the gameplay portion. You could argue that the perfomance level of each part contributes to the overall experience, and it does... but all it shows is that having a lower quality part makes the ride worse: an underdeveloped back end feature in an MMO also makes the game itself worse.

 

Actually, YOU are the one ignoring everything. You still haven't answered why people would go to a different game made by someone completely different and expect the same experience. A MMO does not need 500 million subscribers to be successful. There are more MMOs on the market than just WoW and most of which are still successful in their own right, even without an auto party former. The reason why WoW is so "successful" is because they changed to target the very simple minded people, and it shows in the community now.

 

A LFG tool is not like windows, steering wheel, etc. It is like an automatic parking system. Not every car has one, and not everyone cares to have one.

 

 

Gotta disagree with OP. X-Server LFG should be a last resort. Hell, merge servers before that ish happens.

 

This right here is what I have been saying since February.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Kemosobe

[Katahn]

Gotta disagree with OP. X-Server LFG should be a last resort. Hell, merge servers before that ish happens.

 

That is indeed the plan as I understand it. The tool as I've heard it described will be exactly like the current pvp matching tool in that you will be teleported to the instance when everyone accepts and returned to where you came from afterwords. Given how large a pain in the butt repeated zoning can be on some systems, I applaud that move. For non-instanced content there will obviously be no teleports, but I'd have to imagine that would be for heroics on the world you're currently on.

 

One mega-server for each playstyle would be ideal - and I hope that's what we end up with. Or maybe one for each of the specialized playstyles (RP and PvP-RP), one or two for straight PvP, and two or three for PvE. Do that by timezone/region and you're reasonably assured of finding a server that has a primetime that fits your schedule and has a playstyle that matches what you prefer.