Seeing lots of Snipers these days...

[Shadow__]

You use pulse after they open out of camo, not before. If you can see them you still have leg shot, flash grenade, nutt kick and in some specs the knock back with aim shot. 20% damage reduction isn't really a lot, and if you are kiting the mara in and out of cover 2-3 times there is a very good shot it will drop off.

 

As said many times, at 50 everything changes. Low lvl pvp is not balanced and snipers are actually very strong before 50. At 50, you will NOT kite a mara who has a spammable 12 seconds 50% slow, force camo to break root and can easily trinket your 2nd cc/knockback since their resolve will be full by then. That is of course assuming you knock them far enough(more than 10 meters). Good maras (emphasis on good, many fotm rerolls running around these days) destroy any sniper/gs 1v1. They have superior damage and way better survivability with many cds to cripple your weapon damage as well as tech attacks. As said many times before in this thread, snipers countering maras is a complete myth. They are simply more viable than commandos/mercs atm and many people want the legacy 5% crit buff so they level one. Plus, the smuggler story is really good (agent is 2nd worst in the game imo).

 

Edit:

I wasn't in SWTOR beta but as I understand it, the cover mechanic has been borked since it was first introduced. I'd recommend and personally bind the Crouch ability instead; it immediately gives cover where you are and is quite useful in voidstar especially for positioning yourself near the middle as opposed to rolling backward out of range to attack.

 

Same, I use crouch instead, take cover is very situational. That being said, crouch is still extremely buggy (try doing it on any non level terrain ,the legs of the NC turrets with their meager slope are enough) and it bugs out with "unknown effect result" error. It's also NOT instant, takes around 0.3 seconds or so. This can be easily tested by binding something like a grenade to the same key as ambush in cover bar. Press that key quickly after pressing crouch and you will throw a grenade instead of casting ambush.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Shadow__

[HurricaneXXIV]

As said many times, at 50 everything changes. Low lvl pvp is not balanced and snipers are actually very strong before 50. At 50, you will NOT kite a mara who has a spammable 12 seconds 50% slow, force camo to break root and can easily trinket your 2nd cc/knockback since their resolve will be full by then. ).

 

Leg shot doesn't doesn't use resolve. The snare isn't a large issue. You aren't kiting in the same fashion a PT would. You leg shot and move to a new spot and plop into cover to stop the use of charge. Even if you are moving at 50% speed you still are moving faster than the Mara who is reduced to zero.

 

The combat tree is the only tree that breaks snare with camo. So really very few Mara's even have this ability.

 

If you are playing the match right the sent should not be starting in melee range against you.

Edited May 30, 2012 by HurricaneXXIV

[Shadow__]

Leg shot doesn't doesn't use resolve. The snare isn't a large issue. You aren't kiting in the same fashion a PT would. You leg shot and move to a new spot and plop into cover to stop the use of charge. Even if you are moving at 50% speed you still are moving faster than the Mara who is reduced to zero.

 

If the mara starts the fight in melee range against you the sniper chose poor positioning.

 

If you use leg shot, he just force camos onto you. If you knockback after, he can either pop a defensive cd, or if he was smart and you are obfuscated, just wait it out. Even if you do 10k-12k burst before he is back on you (not gonna happen as anything but MM spec and him being bad), after he is back in melee range you will die before the 12 sec cd on leg shot is up or shortly after. Again, talking about decent maras here which are fairly rare given all the fotm rerolls. Bad ones you can often 100-0 before they get to touch you.

[unixbomber]

As said many times, at 50 everything changes. Low lvl pvp is not balanced and snipers are actually very strong before 50. At 50, you will NOT kite a mara who has a spammable 12 seconds 50% slow, force camo to break root and can easily trinket your 2nd cc/knockback since their resolve will be full by then. That is of course assuming you knock them far enough(more than 10 meters). Good maras (emphasis on good, many fotm rerolls running around these days) destroy any sniper/gs 1v1. They have superior damage and way better survivability with many cds to cripple your weapon damage as well as tech attacks. As said many times before in this thread, snipers countering maras is a complete myth. They are simply more viable than commandos/mercs atm and many people want the legacy 5% crit buff so they level one. Plus, the smuggler story is really good (agent is 2nd worst in the game imo).

 

Edit:

 

 

Same, I use crouch instead, take cover is very situational. That being said, crouch is still extremely buggy (try doing it on any non level terrain ,the legs of the NC turrets with their meager slope are enough) and it bugs out with "unknown effect result" error. It's also NOT instant, takes around 0.3 seconds or so. This can be easily tested by binding something like a grenade to the same key as ambush in cover bar. Press that key quickly after pressing crouch and you will throw a grenade instead of casting ambush.

 

Combat is the only trait line that is going to give the ability to break roots and is generally the least used spec from most marauders / sentinels I've seen. Good maras are not always going to destroy good snipers as good snipers, at least that I have played against and with, are very good at using the terrain to their advantage and can often have you dead or close to it before you ever reach them.

 

Crouch isn't perfect but have found it substantially better, definitely a lot of room for improvement.

[Shadow__]

Combat is the only trait line that is going to give the ability to break roots and is generally the least used spec from most marauders / sentinels I've seen. Good maras are not always going to destroy good snipers as good snipers, at least that I have played against and with, are very good at using the terrain to their advantage and can often have you dead or close to it before you ever reach them.

 

It doesn't have to, just has to be timed right so he can't finish the big nuke cast/channel cull etc. Snipers do not have a 1 second gcd cooldown, so they can only do so much. If the mara is close to dead before he reaches the sniper, the mara is bad and did not manage his cds properly (or, did not los away forcing the sniper to move).

[unixbomber]

It doesn't have to, just has to be timed right so he can't finish the big nuke cast/channel cull etc. Snipers do not have a 1 second gcd cooldown, so they can only do so much. If the mara is close to dead before he reaches the sniper, the mara is bad and did not manage his cds properly (or, did not los away forcing the sniper to move).

There are a lot of variables in this game where my experiences may not reflect yours so I'll agree to disagree on some aspects. Between pacify and a few other tricks, you can be effective and likewise have seen some dirty things done by snipers who have earned my respect.

[xJACKTHERIPPERx]

Snipers kick butt, wonder how longer till the kiddies cry nerf?

 

dear god i hope not. ive been playing a sniper since day 1 of early access, and they are in a good spot after the 5% increase to some skills recently.

kinda nice to see that other people are seeing sniper as a fun class to play. i always felt so alone lol

[IamScarap]

Walking up you take fire. Yes, this is bad and you shouldn't do this but since the topic is about actually fighting 1vs1 you have no choice. You're legshot. You take and it move on? Get close and get KB'd. shot some more. you're now back. stun. sniper repositions. You can break it with CC-breaker. Well, now you're mezzed for 8s. Sniper is now far way again. And he still has a kb-root. If you have 390 centering and the speed buff you can "force speed" in maybe, but then you get the Kb+root and the other Kb and a root are finishing with their CDs. And they are lighting you up the whole time while you struggle just to stay in attack range. What am I getting wrong? How do you deal with snipers. Details, please.

 

I love how, in this example, you take two knock backs, the 8 second mez, and the four second stun. Just that Knock Back from Aimed Shot and the 8 second mez will put you at full resolve, and Leg Shot lasts two seconds if you're getting hit. You also have saber ward which gives you a 50% chance to completely negate Leg Shot and Aimed Shot, as well as Force Camo which lets you get close after htey've blown their stuns and KBs, or leap if they get too far, and a snare to ensure they stay in range. You should also out dps them, since marauders just do amazingly high DPS in melee range, and if saber ward is up half of a Sharp Shooter's attacks aren't going to hit anyways. If things get REALLY hairy, you've still got Undying rage, and in those 5 seconds if you can't take the gunslinger down you're more likely mistakenly hitting your auto attack on each swing.

[Krystaf]

I don't see as many hard counters in this game as I have seen in past MMO's. Snipers have all the tools needed to counter a Mara. We also are the class that picks medium armor melee off quite easily.

 

Sniper/GS has the tools, but so do maras. Their defensive cd's are extremely effective against MM/SS sniper/GS and the damage, if they get to apply it, drops sniper/GS really fast since snipers/GSs can't clean dots. And we must remember that it's rarely 1vs1 where sniper gets to control just the mara. In situations where more players are involved maras have the upper hand imo. Anyway, if both mara and sniper have all cd's up, I'd say mara wins against ss/mm spec on a flat ground (or at least can disengage at will, something that sniper can't do). Just my opinion though.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Krystaf

[Digtahk]

It may sound counter intuitive but the only terrain a sniper has even a remote chance against a marauder is a wide open piece of flat ground (Apart form the narrow railing situational in huttball) . You are able to use all your CC abilitites at max range and cover pulse is sure to knock them back the full distance. Voidstar offers too many Pillars where a marauder can LOS on their approach going on the balcony in civil war is great when there are lots of defenders around but if you were solo guarding it vs a marauder you would be toasted in seconds they would camo with predation up the ramp and stand between you and the wall effectively nullifying your knock backs and its game over.

 

As mentioned earlier the most realistic chance a sniper has is if they are engineering spec in an open piece of ground they can leg shot at 30 meters throw down Orbital strike and plasma probe on top of themselves slow the marauders approach with inter probe and then hunker down and duke it out. Use evasion on ravage and save your knockback for when they use UR.

 

This fantasy that snipers are an anti marauder class is complete rubbish, your tanks (Assassins and Juggs) should be the ones picking up marauders while snipers pick off anyone who looks wounded.

[Krystaf]

It may sound counter intuitive but the only terrain a sniper has even a remote chance against a marauder is a wide open piece of flat ground (Apart form the narrow railing situational in huttball) .

 

True, but in my mind I was thinking about the railings and balconies that are snipers best friends. I find it a bit strange that there are so few maps with these "height differences". Most maps are just flat ground and LOS elements. Not very sniper friendly.

[Bartes]

True, but in my mind I was thinking about the railings and balconies that are snipers best friends. I find it a bit strange that there are so few maps with these "height differences". Most maps are just flat ground and LOS elements. Not very sniper friendly.

 

ummm but balconies may as well be sniper enemy (and his whole team). I once decided to camp balcony on Voidstar and defend bridge extenders with some AoE. Someone jumped up to me, then another, then another and it ended in spawn camp at our doorstep lol. Not fun.

[Krystaf]

ummm but balconies may as well be sniper enemy (and his whole team). I once decided to camp balcony on Voidstar and defend bridge extenders with some AoE. Someone jumped up to me, then another, then another and it ended in spawn camp at our doorstep lol. Not fun.

 

But they can't jump you if you're in cover, unless they cc you out first. If you use Hunker Down you are impossible to jump to.

 

Anyway, your example seems like a really rare (and funny) occasion

Edited May 31, 2012 by Krystaf

[Renita]

The 1 button wonders that used to spam grav round/tracer missiles moved to classes that either have instant casts (powertech) or are outright uninterruptible (sniper) so now instead of grav/tracer spam we have 1 button wonders spamming snipe or flame burst.

 

Any gunslinger/sniper you see spamming one button is playing horribly and will not only do less dps, but will also be out of energy so fast. I have played a gunslinger since early access and fell in love with the class. It is the most fun I have ever had in an mmo.

 

It was extremely underplayed at launch because people didn't want to deal with the cover system. Most people thought, and some still think that cover prohibits our effectiveness in pvp. Lately people are coming to discover the same things I discovered when I first started playing the class. It is extremely fun to play and cover actually gives you a lot of advantages in pvp one of my favorite being that while you're in cover you cannot be leaped to.

 

To be honest, I am glad to see more gunslingers now. At launch, I felt like I was the only gunslinger in any pvp match. It always made me sad.

[Bartes]

But they can't jump you if you're in cover, unless they cc you out first. If you use Hunker Down you are impossible to jump to.

 

Anyway, your example seems like a really rare (and funny) occasion

 

yeah, it was my mistake to start XS Flyby before I hit cover/hunker.

 

It was fun but just imagine all the hate in /ops ^^

[Ossos]

Engineering Spec Sniper....best kept secret in the game.

 

 

 

Ooop!

[Groncho]

They are strong against melee but they are not so hot against ranged. I do alright against them as a balance sage (grant it in the <50 bracket). Its nice to have a class around that counters melee so well, cuz pvp is a bit to melee heavy as is right now imo.

 

the worst opponent for a sniper

*Tankasin / Shadowtank

*operative / scoundrel

 

rest is doable if time up ur cd's

[FreedonShadow]

Lol, it's funny because I was powertech in the beginning, reached 50, and then started as sniper. Now everybody says both classes are OP. It kinda bugs me to look like somebody who rolls classes FOTM.

 

Well, anyway, my point is the following. Snipers are not OP, if the other classes play properly. I admit killing other players when they are bad is way easier with sniper, because sometimes they don't even notice you xD.

 

Here, I try to give you some context on how to counter a sniper at least Marskman specced:

 

-Sniper is very difficult to play, first of all. Nevertheless, the difficulty, is not on the skills, the rotation or the resource management. It is very difficult, because you have to be aware of everything around you, and position yourself in the correct place. Miss somebody too near, place yourself wrong, and you probably end up dying fast.

 

-Yes, I guess the answer to the above point would be, if you die 1vs1 you are bad. Well, maybe. I do not wish to imply that I am askilled pvper. But the point is, that if you get caught at melee range, a player who knows what he is doing can kill you easily. SO:

 

Guidelines for killing us:

 

-Never Never Never Never, run at us from distance, on open field. I'm sorry but that's idiotic. Most of solo kills I get are because people see me, and start running toward me from 35m range.

 

-Be creative! Look what we are doing, where we are aiming. You probably can get us from behind with just a little observation.

 

-Use the terrain. The point of the sniper is not spamming skills. Is using the terrain. Where are we? Probably above your heads, shooting at you, and since you are fighting with some melee class, you don't even notice we're bursting you down. A wise positioning can go a long way defeating a sniper. Clear example: Man, don't stay on the ledge on huttball. You'll be knocked down and shot to death. Position yourself where the knockback can't throw you off the ledge.

 

-Don't mindlessly spam cc. We have a cc immunity, but you can clearly see when it's popped up. Just don't go ccing any sniper in cover, because if they know what they are doing, they probably have cc immunity up.

 

EXTRA- Counter cc immunity: We must stay still. Force us to move, any way you can. Break LoS, run for an objective etc... The first natural response then is to feel safe and move closer to a point where we can keep shooting. Keep that in mind and you can use that moment of vulnerability.

 

-Stealth is a pain for us. Get behind us and start spamming. If you play interrupts cc, and high dmg abilities you can probably win. Moreso, if you knock us out of cover you can get help from rangeds on your team, or even have somebody leap at us. This is certain death then.

 

 

I hope Im not missing anything useful. To sum up:

 

-People who think sniper is OP, is because they don't think while fighting.

-Sure, some places are better for us. Huttball is our strength, and some in alderaan too. Positioning in novare coast or voidstar is really difficult, as you have to be sitting in the open, where attackers can come from everywhere.

-Playing a sniper correctly, is difficult, unless you are up against people who only try to kill stuff.

 

Overall Conclusion: Warzones are not about killing, are about objectives. Try to kill everyone, get lured away etc... you die. And in that conditions is where the sniper shines. Lone, running, focused on killing targets. Keep your group together, go for objectives, and keep the above guidleines in mind.

 

Last comment: I don't care if you agree, or not with what I said, or if you think I must L2P. This is just my experience, and when I face snipers with my Powertech (Which, btw, is not a pyrotech), this works most of the time. Of course, you cannot expect to be fail-proof, there's always randomness involved, and other factors like teamates, gear gap, and, yes, definitely the skill of your opponent.

Edited May 31, 2012 by FreedonShadow

[paul_preib]

Lol, it's funny because I was powertech in the beginning, reached 50, and then started as sniper. Now everybody says both classes are OP. It kinda bugs me to look like somebody who rolls classes FOTM.

 

I wouldn't worry about that, basically at this point

 

Sorc- Chain lightning from wrath procs too strong pre 1.2, bubble, force speed, friendly pull still get some attention

 

Powertech-- Too much burst

 

Assassins-- Too much survivability/utility paired with respectable dps

 

Marauders-- Too many defensive cooldowns for this much damage

 

Operatives-- Stunlock burst and sub 30% healspam

 

Juggernaut-- AOE burst (dps specced) or sheer huttball carrying beastliness (immortal)

 

Merc-- Tracer spam or 1-2-3 burst of tracer + two instants is too much

 

Sniper-- Burst + defensive abilities + cannot be leapt to

 

 

All classes have been argued at OP at some point already. Some (merc, sorc) are seen as being in a bit weaker state right now, but can still net complaints here and there anyway.

 

Sadly I somewhat fit your description too as someone who picked his characters with no considerations towards what was "zomg-leet" at the the moment yet still come off looking like a fotm-er

 

Sorc- Knew it would be my first character from the moment I read all the class descriptions. I wanted the most traditional caster-esque class and this was it making me run warzones at the height of lightning spam/wrath chain lightning complaints

 

Commando-- Friends rolled a republic guild on a different server and I wanted to level a character there. Took a sage to 18 before realizing working on my mirror right away was just kind of boring, for ops purposes guild was lightest on ranged dps and I wanted one that I could respec healer time to time, so commando was the only option, hit 50 right around the time I saw grav-round complaints start to peak.

 

Sentinel-- Two ranged dps classes so for a third I wanted melee or short range. Not fond of tanking and didn't see much point to rolling a jugg without being tank spec so no matter what of the three short range options (shadow/vanguard/sentinel) I'd end up with one that's considered a FOTM class right now, sentinel won just because after the fairly simplistic rotations of the commando I loved the idea of spamming a large number of keybinds like a hyperkinetic monkey.