ToR is a success, dont feed no trolls.

[psi_overtake]

I'm going to give you some advice, as someone who has been in your position with the other Star Wars MMO. Don't get attached. In the end how you feel about the game, how much you enjoy it regardless of what people say, how much you want it to stick around is meaningless. Your enjoyment is, indeed, worth exactly nothing.

 

JediElf, let me give you some better advice.

 

In the end how you feel about the game, how much you enjoy it regardless of what people say, is ALL THAT MATTERS. There will be people posting unrealistic hope and others posting doom on the forums, but all their sh*t doesn't matter. All that matters is that you enjoy the game, and that you feel that it's worth paying a monthly fee for.

 

If you're happy when you play this game, then that's all that matters.

[GalacticKegger]

Hmm ya I mean why didnt he get to know the internal structure of the guild before he joined right? You know how welcoming those guilds are to non-guildies grouping with them. I mean come on how can you find out about a guild until you join it. Unless its a real mess you wont hear about it anywhere until you join and see how things go.

A bonus to 1.3's same server LFG (assuming character transfers are in full swing by then) is its potential as a guild recruitment/audition/interview tool. Edited May 24, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Urael]

I'm going to give you some advice, as someone who has been in your position with the other Star Wars MMO. Don't get attached. In the end how you feel about the game, how much you enjoy it regardless of what people say, how much you want it to stick around is meaningless. Your enjoyment is, indeed, worth exactly nothing.

 

WoW. Bitter bitter bleak response. Just wow.

 

I thought I was angry and bitter over the loss of Pre-CU SWG and MxO.

 

JediElf listen to psi_overtake.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Urael

[Cerion]

imo on your side mate but pls dont degrade down to his level and get personal thx;)

 

At some point, when they make it personal, I make it personal. I know I shouldn't stoop to their level, but for them it's the classic bully defense. The bully throws his weight around, teasing, picking fights, ridiculing, just as the hate machine does in these forums...but as soon as you fight back, the bully cries foul, plays the victim-card, and starts pretending to be hard put-upon.

 

It is your thread...I'll try to respect your wishes.

[Typeslice]

Hmm ya I mean why didnt he get to know the internal structure of the guild before he joined right? You know how welcoming those guilds are to non-guildies grouping with them. I mean come on how can you find out about a guild until you join it. Unless its a real mess you wont hear about it anywhere until you join and see how things go.

 

Again, an example of how WoW ruined the perception of guilds. Getting to know the members/guild play-style, etc was the norm in MMOs before having the biggest guild was important.

[Bluerodian]

WoW. Bitter bitter bleak response. Just wow.

 

I thought I was angry and bitter over the loss of Pre-CU SWG and MxO.

 

JediElf listen to psi_overtake.

 

Eh. It is what it is. I don't deny being a angry and bitter person over this whole industry. At least I'm honest about it.

[Typeslice]

I'm about as discerning now as a person can be, being in the school of "To hell with your guilds." Like I said, things always start out fine, and then they start to rot. No thanks. Been there, done that too many times.

 

It's hard life being a pug though. Most people will hold out for a guild group before pugging. It doesn't mean you're a bad player, but choosing to play the game totally rogue has huge disadvantages.

[Rezakh]

Since this seems to be the most current thread that houses all the tunnel-visioned lacking any sense of objectivity fanboys, I would just like to say, "Hi, Fanboys". Hope you're having a great day!

 

Cheerio,

Rezakh (from reality, feel free to come back to Earth anytime you're ready)

 

P.S. The devs really are not gods, as much as you prefer to worship them no matter how many mistakes they continue to make.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Rezakh

[JeramieCrowe]

Fight back?

 

Why? There isn't a problem. Nothing to fight for. Right?

 

Everything is ok. Pretty soon you and Jeramie will be the only people around to tell each other that.

 

The point remains, he made this thread for no reason other than to stir the pot, but this "positive" troll thread is still going strong, I guess BW needed to find some positive affirmation somewhere.

 

I must make some pretty strong and quite relevant arguments to be targeted by you guys. Thank you.

[GalacticKegger]

Since this seems to be the most current thread that houses all the tunnel-visioned lacking any sense of objectivity fanboys, I would just like to say, "Hi, Fanboys". Hope you're having a great day!

 

Cheerio,

Rezakh (from reality, feel free to come back to Earth anytime you're ready)

:: waves :: (thinking Rezakh must not get out much.) Edited May 24, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Bluerodian]

It's hard life being a pug though. Most people will hold out for a guild group before pugging. It doesn't mean you're a bad player, but choosing to play the game totally rogue has huge disadvantages.

 

It means that I haven't seriously raiding anything since Kerafyrm and probably won't change my mind for TOR.

[Urael]

Eh. It is what it is. I don't deny being a angry and bitter person over this whole industry. At least I'm honest about it.

 

I try to be also but I recognise from the tone of JediElf's post that advise like you gave was not appropriate. Empathize, yes?

[ChaosKirin]

I think part of the problem is that so many people are worried about SWTOR failing that they're looking for ways that it IS failing. That is, they get so wrapped up in the what-ifs that they begin to convince themselves that the game is going to fail, and then, in leaving before it crashes, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

It's an interesting phenomenon. If this was the first MMO that ever came out, certain problems that exist for the game would not exist. Low server pop wouldn't be an issue because the creators wouldn't have had too many servers at launch. In anticipating large, steady populations, Bioware/EA created waaay too many servers that are now at low populations. If they'd only had ten to fifteen, everyone would be grouped together.

 

Second, a lot of things people are missing from other games, like rated warzones and group finder, wouldn't be issues because they wouldn't have been invented yet.

 

As people have had a taste of what is possible, they find themselves unable to judge a game on its own merits, and so they make comparisons to other games. SWTOR should have this. Or this. Or this. And then when BW finally says 'okay, we'll do this,' those people say that it's too little too late. It's that instant gratification mentality that is killing the game.

 

SWTOR is a very fun game, and it is relatively successful compared to other MMOs. Its only problem is that it failed to bring in every mechanic from every other game ever made, either through conscious decision or because of technical impossibility. Most unfortunate is that when people scream that they want these mechanics, and then they're added to the game, the same people refuse to return.

 

I wonder if some people just want to see something crash and burn. I feel like the doomsayers on this forum that keep stating that the game is failing only want to see it shut down. It's the only reason I can see for the negativity.

[vaknyuszi]

Since this seems to be the most current thread that houses all the tunnel-visioned lacking any sense of objectivity fanboys, I would just like to say, "Hi, Fanboys". Hope you're having a great day!

 

Cheerio,

Rezakh (from reality, feel free to come back to Earth anytime you're ready)

 

P.S. The devs really are not gods, as much as you prefer to worship them no matter how many mistakes they continue to make.

 

thank you sir for your constructive post, you really shouldnt have written down that here you can always keep these thougts to yourself. Good day, genteleman!

[JeramieCrowe]

OK, I'll wait. Thank you.

 

Of course, as luck would have it, the Dev Tracker only goes so far back. Trying to find if any fan-sites have saved the quote, but some do allude to it, and SR did, too.

Edited May 24, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[vaknyuszi]

I think part of the problem is that so many people are worried about SWTOR failing that they're looking for ways that it IS failing. That is, they get so wrapped up in the what-ifs that they begin to convince themselves that the game is going to fail, and then, in leaving before it crashes, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

It's an interesting phenomenon. If this was the first MMO that ever came out, certain problems that exist for the game would not exist. Low server pop wouldn't be an issue because the creators wouldn't have had too many servers at launch. In anticipating large, steady populations, Bioware/EA created waaay too many servers that are now at low populations. If they'd only had ten to fifteen, everyone would be grouped together.

 

Second, a lot of things people are missing from other games, like rated warzones and group finder, wouldn't be issues because they wouldn't have been invented yet.

 

As people have had a taste of what is possible, they find themselves unable to judge a game on its own merits, and so they make comparisons to other games. SWTOR should have this. Or this. Or this. And then when BW finally says 'okay, we'll do this,' those people say that it's too little too late. It's that instant gratification mentality that is killing the game.

 

SWTOR is a very fun game, and it is relatively successful compared to other MMOs. Its only problem is that it failed to bring in every mechanic from every other game ever made, either through conscious decision or because of technical impossibility. Most unfortunate is that when people scream that they want these mechanics, and then they're added to the game, the same people refuse to return.

 

I wonder if some people just want to see something crash and burn. I feel like the doomsayers on this forum that keep stating that the game is failing only want to see it shut down. It's the only reason I can see for the negativity.

 

100% agree

[Jett-Rinn]

It just...the General boards feel so bleak, and depressing.

 

I want this game to last for a long time, I want to get to 50 with all the classes, and all my alts. I don't want the plug to be pulled tomorrow, or a month from now, or whatever people are cheering for.

 

I want this game to have expansions packs, content patches, and other stuff. I can wait for those because I know Voice Acting can take a bit of time. I'm willing to wait because, it's worth it.

 

Sometimes when I read the General Boards I feel like people want to take this game from me, take it away and shut it down...that my fun, my enjoyment, is worth nothing.

 

Sorry for the long post, I just wish I understood why people are like this on General. As a gamer, it makes me so sad.

 

You need to understand that all MMO forums are inhabited with paid astroturfers, zealots of other MMO's and those who get more joy in spreading misery than they do playing a MMO.

 

If you let them effect you they have won, ignore them use the in game community and fan sites like TORWARS for information and talking with like minded people.

 

I'm pretty certain that with a new CM; how Bioware handles TORchan will change as well so hang in there.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Goretzu]

I think part of the problem is that so many people are worried about SWTOR failing that they're looking for ways that it IS failing. That is, they get so wrapped up in the what-ifs that they begin to convince themselves that the game is going to fail, and then, in leaving before it crashes, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

It's an interesting phenomenon. If this was the first MMO that ever came out, certain problems that exist for the game would not exist. Low server pop wouldn't be an issue because the creators wouldn't have had too many servers at launch. In anticipating large, steady populations, Bioware/EA created waaay too many servers that are now at low populations. If they'd only had ten to fifteen, everyone would be grouped together.

 

Second, a lot of things people are missing from other games, like rated warzones and group finder, wouldn't be issues because they wouldn't have been invented yet.

 

As people have had a taste of what is possible, they find themselves unable to judge a game on its own merits, and so they make comparisons to other games. SWTOR should have this. Or this. Or this. And then when BW finally says 'okay, we'll do this,' those people say that it's too little too late. It's that instant gratification mentality that is killing the game.

 

SWTOR is a very fun game, and it is relatively successful compared to other MMOs. Its only problem is that it failed to bring in every mechanic from every other game ever made, either through conscious decision or because of technical impossibility. Most unfortunate is that when people scream that they want these mechanics, and then they're added to the game, the same people refuse to return.

 

I wonder if some people just want to see something crash and burn. I feel like the doomsayers on this forum that keep stating that the game is failing only want to see it shut down. It's the only reason I can see for the negativity.

 

 

 

I like SWTOR, but it has serious flaws, whilst it had a smoother launch than LOTRO I'm not convinced it was a better game at launch than LOTRO.

 

There's a lot of core ways it could be improved.

 

It fails very badly in staticness (many being active choices - no day/night cycle anywhere) and repetitivity 1 levelling path per faction.

 

Also in RvR (it doens't have any now) and PvP (PvP isn't terrible but the CC system genuinely is, you have to go back to EQ1 to find something worse IMO) - both of which I simply cannot understand considering how many Mythic Devs are in Bioware and that Bioware ran Warhammer Online for 20 months before SWTOR went Live ( they should have had some idea about how to build an RvR basin and CC in PvP from that).

 

 

But I think what's more worrying is EA looks to be following it's WAR method, so if SWTOR doesn't start to claw back subs and get growing in the next 3-6 months, EA will just lay off more and more of the SWTOR team.

[Cerion]

I try to be also but I recognise from the tone of JediElf's post that advise like you gave was not appropriate. Empathize, yes?

 

You're asking him to empathize? The guy that found extreme glee in the firing of BioWare employees? Good luck.

 

p.s. I have him on ignore already.

[Bluerodian]

I try to be also but I recognise from the tone of JediElf's post that advise like you gave was not appropriate. Empathize, yes?

 

I was empathizing. I gave the perception from as realistic a stance as possible. You guys are telling him/her to enjoy the game and give it his/her all. I did that with SWG. Then SWG got ripped out from underneath me, TWICE. Hence where I am now.

 

Should TOR get slapped with the shutdown, many of those that get overly attached to it will end up just like me. Bitter and angry. I'm looking to spare JediElf the potential for that fate. In short, do make my mistakes and don't be like me.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Bluerodian

[LiquidDakrness]

http://torwars.com/2012/05/23/open-tor-policy-the-trolled-republic/

 

 

Greetings once again, Star Wars fans, and welcome to another edition of Open TOR Policy, where I discuss issues of import and interest to our Star Wars: The Old Republic community. Today, I’m setting my sights on trolls, specifically those that contest our particular brand of spaced-based enjoyment is doomed to fail.

If you go to the SWTOR forums – and I’d advise a strong drink before you do – you’re going to see a whole host of threads aimed at convincing readers that STWOR is crashing – hard. “Subs Down 25%”, “Server Population is Dropping” and “Storm Preparation” are just a few examples. They point to seemingly incontrovertible evidence of a downward spiral, such as the fact that subs are down 25% to around 1.3 million and that while EA executives consider SWTOR to be in the “top 10” of their money-making franchises, it’s not in the top 5. Throw in a few words about the recent SWTOR layoffs, not-here-yet LFG tool, low server populations and PvP problems and you’ve got yourself a perfect sh#@-storm of forum woes.

 

To put it bluntly: the forums are a scary, scary, place. But are they right?

 

Let’s crunch some numbers. Most of mine are as real as any you’ll find in the forums – more so in some cases since they come from a place of common sense instead of energy drink and zesty Dorito-fuelled madness, but feel free to disagree (or disbelieve) as you so choose.

 

The highest reported number of subscribers for SWTOR thus far is 1.7 million, so that’s what I’ll start with, and assume that all 1.7 million of those players bought a legitimate copy for an average of $60 (I’m rolling in CE, DCE and regular boxes all in here) - that means $102 million in BioWare’s pockets at the get-go. We also know that subs have dropped to 1.3 million over the last few months, and so to err on the side of caution I’m going to assume that only 1 million players renewed their subs after the free month in December ran out, meaning four months at $15 per month for BioWare, or another $60 million, totaling $162 million made thus far. My numbers here aren’t perfect – they don’t take into account players who came late to the party or have paid for six-month subs, for example, or the free extra month some players were granted in April, but they’re a good baseline.

 

This $162 million isn’t pure profit, of course, since the game cost money to develop. BioWare never did release the actual tally, and I’ve heard everything from costs of $100 millon up to $300 million for the entire development cycle. My personal guess is around $150 million but even if the costs hit $200 million, the company has still made almost all of its money back. If subscribers stay steady at 1 million, BioWare makes $15 million a month and quickly heads into profitable territory, even taking into account overhead and the price of developing new content. In other words, the game is a success.

 

I know, I know – it’s not World of Warcraft. But guess what? Nothing is. WoW is an anomaly, one that showed up at just the right time with the right balance of hard core and casual gameplay and managed to push its way into the mainstream. Other MMOs have actually been successful in making money, both through the sub method and free to play (F2P) but none of them are WoW, and none of them will ever be. Boo-hoo.

 

It’s also worth noting that “mainstream” is a really loose term here, and while WoW enjoyed 12 million subs at the height of its popularity it’s a far cry from the over 70 million copies of Wii Sports sold when Nintendo’s latest console hit store shelves. One million is a decent number for SWTOR, no matter how high the bar set by WoW.

 

Right now, SWTOR is profitable, but it’s really no surprise to me that EA doesn’t consider it a top-5 moneymaker. With massive, yearly sports franchises and nearly-yearly FPS games on their ledger it doesn’t make sense to view BioWare’s outing as the best potential money-maker; the strength of an MMO lies in its longevity, not the number of copies it can sell at day one, and so far BioWare seems on the right track for developing desired and timely content.

 

Trolls will always poke out their heads, bent on convincing forum-goers that SWTOR is in desperate, hopeless trouble and that we should all abandon ship for WoW, Tera, Guild Wars 2 or some other “unnamed, revolutionary, fun, totally awesome MMO.” Don’t get me wrong – there are good threads on the forums, threads that try to address real issues or give credit where credit is due, but there’s also this odd slice of the player-base who are certain in their doomsday convictions, but wobbly on spelling and grammar.

 

We’ve become spoiled, I think, by the sheer volume of information available about every game out there, about every new IP or idea even before it hits the alpha testing phase. All too often the seeds of our opinions take root not on the basis of engaging gameplay or great story or anything we actually do but because of vitriolic or passionate forum posts, many full of suspect or patently misleading data.

 

Am I the ultimate authority here? Should you believe me, and no other SWTOR author? Hardly. Play the game, judge for yourself; decide if you want to keep playing, and paying.

 

Oh, and don’t feed the trolls.

 

creds to the original author at torwars

 

 

EDIT: i agree with those who say, that complaining is not trolling, i have never said i agree with every part of this article.

On the BF3 forum i was complaining all the time beacuse of the false marketing etc....

But we gotta admit that there are a lot of haters on the forums, not only here but on every forum who only use the forums they post in to generate hate.

 

I don't know what game you are playing but, your numbers do not mean anything to me. Just because they have made money off this game does not make it a success, at all. There are about 3 US servers with more than 100+ people on it more than one given time. I can't even see how you can say this game is a success, just because they have made some money, and there are dead servers everywhere. You must be on The Fatman server.

[TUXs]

Of course, as luck would have it, the Dev Tracker only goes so far back. Trying to find if any fan-sites have saved the quote, but some do allude to it, and SR did, too.

 

Neither of those said, nor alluded to, a delay or issue with some fictional tool. Bioware has said the were trying to automate the transfer process, but you're telling people here that 1.2 Legacy 'broke' their tool, hence the delay, which, as far as I can tell, is 100% untrue.

 

No other sources?! No proof for your claims? I'd ask Bioware to confirm/deny it, but we both know that won't happen.

[Urael]

nvm. ... Edited May 24, 2012 by Urael

[ChaosKirin]

I'm on Mind Trick and there are almost always more than 100 people on at a time.

[JediElf]

I'm on Mind Trick and there are almost always more than 100 people on at a time.

 

I love the name of that server! Heck I love the clever names of most of the servers. I dunno why I just do.