Pekish Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I think it's time to face it all the post i read on how to make this game better all sound old school. Some people say "but UO had reward/punishment system" and "DAOC had 3 faction" and bla bla bla PVE RVR GVG craft gear cross-server... not 1 original idea If 10 year ago it was time to move on from the reward/punishment system (dont mind some people want it back, it makes no sense nowday) it is time to move away from the reward/reward system, and pay attenction i am saying move away from reward system not from advancment system. MMORPG is about advancment and change that's why i don't buy the idea of some new game where they think you need to remove advancment... its' not anymore an MMORPG in my opinion and dividing advancment from PVE/PVP (another old idea) is in my book another fail to me it's like okey we give you 2 game in 1 box some play one some play the other... I think the future is integrating the 2 comunity no dividing them even more. ( i totally hate the idea of PVE and PVP server) NEXT GENERATION MMO will be based on "FUN FACTOR" fun factor is a 3 dimensional curve that exist on these 3 axes x) TIME y) BALANCE z) COMMUNITY TIME this weekend i go play tennis with a friend is (FUN) everyday i train 8h playing tennis and this weekend my friend ask me to go play tennis (again) no matter how much i love playing tennis i punch him in the face (NO FUN) letting a player overdose one activity (usually because of reward) spoile the game very quickly any activity like any skill need a diminishing return over time in order to help player to experiment every aspect of the game with moderation BALANCE this weekend the best tennis player in the world invited me to play tennis i couldn't catch 1 ball (NO FUN) letting player face impossible challenge is not fun (and you dont get any better at tennis if u dont catch any ball) the system has to be made to divide for example PUG from PREMADE and raking player in order to better match them. There will always be situation of disparity bigger then ideal (some would call it challenging some would still hate them) I am sure not system is perfect but with a system well though out IN ADVANCE (not added AFTER) you can go a long way to fix it COMMUNITY this weekend i play tennis with my friend everytime i do a mistake he laugh at me and/or insult me (NO FUN) This is really on us guys community is very important in an MMO and we are failing as much (if not worst) then the programmer lately i have not seen a decent MMO lately but i didnt see any decent COMMUNITY either (okey LOTRO is an exception) We cannot expect better MMORPG if we cannot give better community. Edited May 23, 2012 by Pekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JollyRogers Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I don't like tennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 sux it's pretty fun ^_^ i like soccer too do you prefear i switch it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well hate to break it to you but MMORPGs have always been about community! You ask any of the original Neverwinter Nights players what they remember most about that game and 7 out of 10 will say "The Community" every single time. So putting community into the next gen MMORPG isnt really all that ground breaking or new of a concept! Asfor the rest, thats your opinion. Personally being invited to play tennis with the best player in the world sounds like great fun to me, regardless if I can hot a return or not! Simple reality is next gen MMORPGs will be about graphics, the template of what makes a successful MMORPG will never change, just the tech level and tools available to make it will change! It all starts with community and branches out from there. As TOR learning, with out a in game community, its hard to keep players playing once they absorbed the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tloops Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) tennis is horrible,and soccer is worse Edited May 23, 2012 by tloops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) difficult crowd ^_^ no tennis no soccer... it is groundbraking because as now no programmer has been able to create any system that actively involve the community those are guideline and i can assure NONE of the modern MMO has been made giving any instrument to the community to shine what they give us is a railroad to follow or an empty canvas to draw from zero the 2 extreme so in my book it's revolutionary enough plus i dont see anybody ever on a forum calling out the COMMUNITY to make the game better is always a crying whining that the DEVS have to do this have to do that Again way more revolutionary then the usual suggestion you read on here. Edited May 23, 2012 by Pekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 So you want sandbox (assuming off the railroad complaint) Its been tried and failed badly every time! UO? Popular till it got competition SWG? Crash and burn Eve? Going strong as a very niche market game Fact is Sandbox has a worse record then themepark/railroad! Well this forum not good honestly. You got a mix of haters and people that point out real issues and then throw in the fanbois that attack anyone that has a single thought different from them. ITS A MESS. But if you can ignore the haters and fanbois, there is allot of good ideas presented here! Problem is EA isnt using any of them. As said in first post, TOR has no community inside the game and thus cant keep people subbed. So rather then putting in community building concepts, they keep adding fluff and content. Content great but no developer can create content as fast as players can eat it up, which brings us back to no community to hold them in game after the content chewed up. Fluff, Im a huge fan of fluff, but it doesnt keep a player subd. Never has and never will, its fluff. EA needs to start reading the ideas here that are presented to keep players in game when the content used up. Build a community, create interaction! Again, none of this new or rocket sceince. MMORPGs always come down to community first, PVE second, everything else 3rd. The games that try to change that template go to the way side and die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 no the 3 feat i expressed are not bound to any sandbox/themepark type of game i am fine with themepark as long as the 3 thing that make it fun apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 so you just want to go and have fun without any effort... Just wait until you discover alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talorya Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Fun is subjective... But things that will help MMOs in the future, -Rotational events instead of "quests". -Freedom of choice for players (from appearance to progression style). -Active developer presence in games via scheduled events. We've done enough of "go here and kill X things" and then return to the guy and repeat every few steps. Things need to happen when you're in the area, not because you've talked to some random guy somewhere. Have a stock of things that you can swap out, so while this week this area's doing this, you can swap it out to something else next week, so people constantly have something to look forward to no matter how long they've played. Players need to have more freedom in how they choose to play, and less emphasis on the structured linear method we've been getting for years. Let the players make however they want to look like, wear whatever they want to wear when they want to, and play through the game by choosing to do whatever they decide to dedicate themselves to. If the developers actually play the game with the community, participate or conduct ingame events, you'll see immediate feedback on what to do next, what the people can handle and what they expect to see in other content. If the developers are always sitting in the office and mess with the codes and play on their own builds, you're going to be more and more detached from the people who are playing the game. Forums aren't enough, it's only the few select people that aren't in the game that are posting, so why not get feedback directly from the currently active players more often. A few things to help MMO futures, though doubtful these will be taken and applied anytime soon for most titles in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agemnon Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 A next generation mmo will look like real life on highest settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think it's time to face it all the post i read on how to make this game better all sound old school. Some people say "but UO had reward/punishment system" and "DAOC had 3 faction" and bla bla bla PVE RVR GVG craft gear cross-server... not 1 original idea If 10 year ago it was time to move on from the reward/punishment system (dont mind some people want it back, it makes no sense nowday) it is time to move away from the reward/reward system, and pay attenction i am saying move away from reward system not from advancment system. MMORPG is about advancment and change that's why i don't buy the idea of some new game where they think you need to remove advancment... its' not anymore an MMORPG in my opinion and dividing advancment from PVE/PVP (another old idea) is in my book another fail to me it's like okey we give you 2 game in 1 box some play one some play the other... I think the future is integrating the 2 comunity no dividing them even more. ( i totally hate the idea of PVE and PVP server) NEXT GENERATION MMO will be based on "FUN FACTOR" fun factor is a 3 dimensional curve that exist on these 3 axes x) TIME y) BALANCE z) COMMUNITY TIME this weekend i go play tennis with a friend is (FUN) everyday i train 8h playing tennis and this weekend my friend ask me to go play tennis (again) no matter how much i love playing tennis i punch him in the face (NO FUN) letting a player overdose one activity (usually because of reward) spoile the game very quickly any activity like any skill need a diminishing return over time in order to help player to experiment every aspect of the game with moderation BALANCE this weekend the best tennis player in the world invited me to play tennis i couldn't catch 1 ball (NO FUN) letting player face impossible challenge is not fun (and you dont get any better at tennis if u dont catch any ball) the system has to be made to divide for example PUG from PREMADE and raking player in order to better match them. There will always be situation of disparity bigger then ideal (some would call it challenging some would still hate them) I am sure not system is perfect but with a system well though out IN ADVANCE (not added AFTER) you can go a long way to fix it COMMUNITY this weekend i play tennis with my friend everytime i do a mistake he laugh at me and/or insult me (NO FUN) This is really on us guys community is very important in an MMO and we are failing as much (if not worst) then the programmer lately i have not seen a decent MMO lately but i didnt see any decent COMMUNITY either (okey LOTRO is an exception) We cannot expect better MMORPG if we cannot give better community. You pretty much discribed Titan. Blizzard's upcoming MMO. It will be very casual friendly and have easy access for players to have..guess what?....fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I applaude and agree, also this is what I said in the "WoW Killer, Really?" thread quoted below. It´s true, everyone knows it, and game companies not evolving the MMO concept are supposed to fade out in the dark meaningless memory of mediocre MMOs. No one´s thinking Titan will be WoW 2.0. It´s intended to co-exist with WoW. Blizzard would be stupid to do that same old stuff one more time anyway. Honestly, it´s about time the MMORPG genre as it was popular the last decade dies a quick and painless death. EVERY other genre, I mean EVERY other genre has evolved over the years, except the dreaded button mashing gear grinding brainless concept of MMORPG. Not following the TOR beta or any early reports on it, I was taken by surprise how incredibly oldschool TOR was designed. Compared to SWG it was a backstep in innovation. But hey, there are still games coming out following the very same old WoW concept, which in fact was already dated and ripped off even older games, when "Vanilla WoW" came out. Looking into the future of MMOs - all I read about Titan, it´s about to become a massive multiplayer RPG/FPS in a new lore universe and it will be revolutionary and focusing on social aspects. That is what I expected from TOR and they failed, next year we´ll see if Blizzard fails too, but I doubt that. Edited May 23, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkip Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think you ended your post prematurely. You have a premise but what about the PVE vs PVP and bringing those two together etc... Some people just don't like to PvP... ever... my partner hates PvP in any way shape or form, so a game that had forced PvP she wouldn't play ergo I wouldn't play. She's not the only person in the world he feels that way. I enjoy meaningful PvP where you aren't stun locked to death. Amongst my friends whom I also game with there is even more varied opinions, games like WoW, and SWTOR that have optional PvP attempt to cater to both crowds. A little more concrete ideas on how that would be implemented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 A next generation mmo will look like real life on highest settings LOL, way tech going, it really might Agemnon! I found RIFT stunningly amazing to look at on the highest settings. The Nature rifts opening up on max graphic setting where absolutely stunning. I really do beleive the next gen MMORPG everyone talks about is far more about graphics and tech level then it is about game design! MMORPGs are pretty much in a holding pattern till we come out with the current sci fi stuff we see on TV (Holosuit, Centari (the BSG spin off), ect) where you plug into your imagination (now thats when sand box will FLOURISH). I mean you can mess around with the difficulty settings "for casuals" or "for normals" or "for hardcores" all you want. The mechanics pretty much stay the same from game to game now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) A next generation mmo will look like real life on highest settings Next gen is already today, if you want something where the game looks closer to real life there is the other EA MMO Secret World. And hey they even trashed the MMO concept and did something new - I´ve already been a happy camper on last beta weekend investigating Illuminati codes and searching bible texts for hints on how to solve the next quest This is what I call innovation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czuyqh_0Rvo Spoiler warning! Solved it on my own, I´m freakin´ Robert Langdon ! And in TOR you only need to run to your next map marker... Edited May 23, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This forum is for the discussion of SWTOR.l. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discosoc Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I honestly think the next big MMO will be on consoles; PC developers seem to be focused on reaching WoW's level of success, which was mostly an exception. I had hoped Bethesda Soft could be the leader in such a trend, especially with Oblivion and Skyrim seeming to be console focused, much to the annoyance of PC users. Unfortunately, it looks like Elder Scrolls Online is just another WoW clone. Historically, there were 3 things holding back any sort of console MMO, none of which are problems anymore: 1. Too few buttons on controllers. Traditional MMO's are based on the hotkey paradigm for combat, using many icons and hotkeys for various abilities. That type of gameplay is starting to show it's age, which makes for a perfect chance at action style combat to pick up, something controllers are good for. 2. Unreliable internet connectivity. Internet access on consoles has only recently been accepted as normal since halfway through the current generation. Since PC's were the internet machines, they were the focus for internet-based games. With pretty much every console having wifi built in now, and most homes having access to it (those that can afford consoles and subscriptions), this restriction is no longer valid. 3. Poor graphics. Cutting edge graphics used to be exclusive to the PC gamer, with consoles being very limited in comparison. The current generation of consoles have only recently really started to fall behind, however. This is because games are being aimed at consoles first and ported to PC's last. As such, the bar for graphics capabilities is more or less bottlenecked at what consoles can deal with. PC's might get better resolutions, but that only goes so far. Even more to their favor, MMO's are rarely known for cutting edge graphics anyway. The next truly big MMO will be on consoles. Mark my words. Edited May 23, 2012 by discosoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) This forum is for the discussion of SWTOR.l. Surprise, to point out what´s missing in TOR it´s sometimes necessary to discuss what other games did differently / better.. Edited May 23, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Next gen is already today, if you want something where the game looks closer to real life there is the other EA MMO Secret World. And hey they even trashed the MMO concept and did something new - I´ve already been a happy camper on last beta weekend investigating Illuminati codes and searching bible texts for hints on how to solve the next quest This is what I call innovation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czuyqh_0Rvo Spoiler warning! Solved it on my own, I´m freakin´ Robert Langdon ! And in TOR you only need to run to your next map marker... I tried TSW. Was'nt impressed. Ether with the combat or other things. Not for me. And Titan will be nothing like TSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I honestly think the next big MMO will be on consoles; PC developers seem to be focused on reaching WoW's level of success, which was mostly an exception. I had hoped Bethesda Soft could be the leader in such a trend, especially with Oblivion and Skyrim seeming to be console focused, much to the annoyance of PC users. Unfortunately, it looks like Elder Scrolls Online is just another WoW clone. Historically, there were 3 things holding back any sort of console MMO, none of which are problems anymore: 1. Too few buttons on controllers. Traditional MMO's are based on the hotkey paradigm for combat, using many icons and hotkeys for various abilities. That type of gameplay is starting to show it's age, which makes for a perfect chance at action style combat to pick up, something controllers are good for. 2. Unreliable internet connectivity. Internet access on consoles has only recently been accepted as normal since halfway through the current generation. Since PC's were the internet machines, they were the focus for internet-based games. With pretty much every console having wifi built in now, and most homes having access to it (those that can afford consoles and subscriptions), this restriction is no longer valid. 3. Poor graphics. Cutting edge graphics used to be exclusive to the PC gamer, with consoles being very limited in comparison. The current generation of consoles have only recently really started to fall behind, however. This is because games are being aimed at consoles first and ported to PC's last. As such, the bar for graphics capabilities is more or less bottlenecked at what consoles can deal with. PC's might get better resolutions, but that only goes so far. Even more to their favor, MMO's are rarely known for cutting edge graphics anyway. The next truly big MMO will be on consoles. Mark my words. I think you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Regarding games (and a lot of other things) I really love this Bill Cosby Quote: "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." It´s pretty obvious, SWTOR tried to "please everybody" by being like any other MMO which had more than 500.000 subs. Problem: It´s not 2008 anymore, the concept is old, the game looks, performs and feels like 2008. Take a look at Dust 514 - what an awesome idea to connect a PC sandbox game to a console action shooter set in the very same sandbox! Kudos to CCP for being innovative. As well as Funcom for taking on the MMO genre for something new in TSW. Bioware really needs to realize it´s time to expand TOR by some revolutionary game experience. Hint: Voiceovers in a MMO are NOT revolutionary in 2012, nice, but not revolutionary. Edited May 24, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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