No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[Evironrage]

Gear checks are an unnecessary, elitist tool that should only be allowed via directly inspecting someone. Anything beyond that is just plain lazy on the raid leaders' parts.

And to answer your question yes I have lead many raids in a few different games. From 40 man raids to 8 man. The onus is on the lead not some updated armory or an in-game tool.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Evironrage

[kilosoldier]

Gear checks are an unnecessary, elitist tool that should only be allowed via directly inspecting someone. Anything beyond that is just plain lazy on the raid leaders' parts.

And to answer your question yes I have lead many raids in a few different games. From 40 man raids to 8 man. The onus is on the lead not some updated armory or an in-game tool.

 

We're talking about the LFG tool

 

There is no "leader"

 

Nice try though.

[Smiri]

There was always a going to be a time when grouping would turn into elitism and gear checks, and I cant say much more than it sucks! Yes people need to be geared enough to do an FP/OP, but who decides how much is enough? Even if there was some gear check tool you can gauruntee that someone in a group will sit there and go "Oh nooooooo, you have a green belt, your not full rakata because your missing that one piece". It's sad, and ruins games (although itll probably be an improvement on the lack of anything happening ever on my server).

I dont know why but i always think back to my WoW days when i hit 70 and started tagging along on my guilds Kara runs. After running it enough to be able to do it with my eyes shut i joined a pug group, and promptly got kicked because i had a couple of green items. Are you telling me that everyone who doesnt have the best gear is going to be a liability?They may have been unlucky with drops but still have more skill than the rest of the group put together.

 

Theres no easy way to solve this, no gear checks = elitism and random group kicks, gear checks = elitism and people struggling to get on that first rung of the ladder gear wise.

 

Actually, ive just realised what im saying, gear levels suck, lets abolish gear and run ops naked.....

[Matte_Black]

Rofl.

 

You want to further filter the 10 total people that will be online on your server by the time this rolls out by having a gear check in the LFG?

 

Is this serious?

 

Total truth.

 

It's probably in your best interest to build up the players who can eventually fill your group. If they are on at the right time and interested in the group content you are, spend a little goodwill and help them gear-up or take a low-probability run at the mission and build up your skill and tactics. Sure beats waiting to group up and at least progresses a fix to the problem.

[JollyRogers]

I think the LFG tool would also be a great time to insert another code into the game. We'll call it "Fair Share". All the raiders who run raids, will have a percentage of their items and credits forcibly removed from them at the end of the run. It will be equally distributed to those who don't run raids. The more a player accumulates through their actions in the raids, and flashpoints, the greater a percentage will be taken from them.

 

It would be a perfect utopia.

[mothear]

Gear checks are an unnecessary, elitist tool that should only be allowed via directly inspecting someone. Anything beyond that is just plain lazy on the raid leaders' parts.

And to answer your question yes I have lead many raids in a few different games. From 40 man raids to 8 man. The onus is on the lead not some updated armory or an in-game tool.

 

Gear checks are unnecessary when you don't run an automated LFG tool to enter the operation, unless you want the operation nerfed to the ground so Billy two toes can clear it in average rated gear of around 106-110. When I hit 50 most of my stuff was level 45-47 blues, which I believe is around 110, but I still had lvl 35 implants and a 102 green belt.

[kilosoldier]

Theres no easy way to solve this, no gear checks = elitism and random group kicks, gear checks = elitism and people struggling to get on that first rung of the ladder gear wise.

 

The gear progression in this game is easy to get started with and easy to get through to where you want to be.

 

Gear drops like candy in this game. The first rung of the ladder is a seamless transition from leveling in into endgame progression.

 

 

 

I think the poster earlier nailed it is saying this argument is really centered around "Mean people are mean" and is emotion driven instead of a logically driven argument.

[Smiri]

I agree that the first rung is a progression from levelling, hell, i just hit 50 with an alt in corellia modded oranges and ran FE hm 5 minutes later, the problem is the people that inspect, dont see the words columni/rakata etc, and instantly assume your undergeared for anything with the letters hm after it

[Matte_Black]

The same can be said about people like you.

 

True enough but, the difference is that I don't join games if I am not willing to play them as they are. I don't expect them to make preferential changes to move away from what was intended and being enjoyed. If a game is too myuch about optimizing at the expense of story or includes alot of exposure to unconsented PvP, I move on and let the guys who enjoy that experience, enjoy it.

 

We may be equal sides opposite on this issue but, you are the one asking for changes to the game I investigated beforehand, bought and am enjoying now.

[Bossa]

The pictures Bioware released of the LFG tool didn't seem to include a gear check of any kind. What is preventing a level 50 in all green gear from queuing up for Devona or HM Lost Island?

 

The last thing we need is spending an hour in a queue for a group only to get stuck in a group that doesn't even have the gear required to complete it and having to start over.

 

Please Bioware don't make the fatal mistake of trying to make the bads happy. A gear check is very important or you will have many frustrated and annoyed players.

I like how not having certain types of gear all of a sudden is what determines a good player vs a bad player...

[ThiborF]

Actually they built it into the system because it was in fact needed.

 

Only because people in a social game seemingly lacked the ability to communicate with one another even though the tools for that were there by all.

[Evironrage]

We're talking about the LFG tool

 

There is no "leader"

 

Nice try though.

We are not talking about a cross server LFG tool. Someone will invariably become the defacto leader to keep things moving inside the instance once it is started. Nice try though

Edited May 22, 2012 by Evironrage

[MasterKayote]

forget gear check, bolster the stats like its done in WZs, the lfg tool shud do that

 

You know ... I like this idea. Give all classes an interupt by level 15 ... Then increase the stats to high level-ish like in the WZ's. Maybe not ideal for heroics+ but it should work fairly well for NM FPs, and the player pool would get bigger for those without having to do xserver.

 

Of course, the gear drops would have to be switched to class specific tokens or chests so players would get gear thats their own level.

 

Gear checks should still be in for HM's and raids though.

Edited May 22, 2012 by MasterKayote

[Evironrage]

Gear checks are unnecessary when you don't run an automated LFG tool to enter the operation, unless you want the operation nerfed to the ground so Billy two toes can clear it in average rated gear of around 106-110. When I hit 50 most of my stuff was level 45-47 blues, which I believe is around 110, but I still had lvl 35 implants and a 102 green belt.

 

It is a same server LFG tool which means you can inspect everyone right outside the raid instance.

[Nijraw]

The pictures Bioware released of the LFG tool didn't seem to include a gear check of any kind. What is preventing a level 50 in all green gear from queuing up for Devona or HM Lost Island?

 

The last thing we need is spending an hour in a queue for a group only to get stuck in a group that doesn't even have the gear required to complete it and having to start over.

 

Please Bioware don't make the fatal mistake of trying to make the bads happy. A gear check is very important or you will have many frustrated and annoyed players.

 

Really, I mean REALLY?

 

I hate to say this but if you want World of Warcraft why not just play World of Warcraft?

[kilosoldier]

We are not talking about a cross server LFG tool. Someone will invariably become the defacto leader to keep things moving inside the instance once it is started. Nice try though

 

Are you really this dense?

[ryathal]

I don't think they would be irresponsible enough to create a LFG tool and not include minimum gear level checks built in. Actually on second thought it sounds exactly like something they would forget to add,which is another feature wow has built in since the beginning of there LFG tool.

[Zataos]

It will probably be a learning experience for a number of people at first, as they begin to realize what they need in terms of gear, specs and tactics for various FPs.

 

I know on the servers I play on, there's already helpful people in place that try to educate players on what they will need for certain things.

 

What we don't need is a tool that allows other players to refuse other players based on something as arbitrary as gear choice. All it does is split the community and form elitism separation.

 

If there was some base score that the LFG tool could automatically use to warn players that they may not be suited for the mission, then that's a different story. Allowing other players, who will absolutely misuse such a system, to exclude players based on gear(or stats, or specs, or hairstyle, or whatever) is a bad idea.

 

Furthermore, I think the comment in the original post of: "Please Bioware don't make the fatal mistake of trying to make the bads happy." Clearly illustrates how and why such a tool would actually be used.

If you want to join in a baseball game would you come to play with a wiffle ball bat and expect your teammates to "let you learn"?

 

You obviously have had bad experiences with group finders, but you simply can't expect players to waste time on you or others like you if you don't even have enough respect for them to come "properly" geared for the content that your trying to play, otherwise you're wasting other people's real life time in having to "discover" that YOU are undergeared and forced to drop you from group and await a replacement.

 

No, gear check is not only a good idea, but an essential one, and it should be at the discretion of the group leader, if you don't like limitations of their group, no big deal start your own.

[kilosoldier]

If you want to join in a baseball game would you come to play with a wiffle ball bat and expect your teammates to "let you learn"?

 

You obviously have had bad experiences with group finders, but you simply can't expect players to waste time on you or others like you if you don't even have enough respect for them to come "properly" geared for the content that your trying to play, otherwise you're wasting other people's real life time in having to "discover" that YOU are undergeared and forced to drop you from group and await a replacement.

 

No, gear check is not only a good idea, but an essential one, and it should be at the discretion of the group leader, if you don't like limitations of their group, no big deal start your own.

 

This is a great point.

 

Who REALLY is the elitist?

 

Person A who plays the game as designed and understands the stat/gear requirements to run instanced content and expects others running with them to play the game withing the design choice dynamics.

 

Person B who doenst care about the way the game is designed and wants to run instanced content undergeared/under powered. Doesnt care that their inclusion could mean the expense of the other player time and effort and is squarely focused on themselves and their own self-entitlement at the expense of everyone else.

[Timesjoke]

True enough but, the difference is that I don't join games if I am not willing to play them as they are. I don't expect them to make preferential changes to move away from what was intended and being enjoyed. If a game is too myuch about optimizing at the expense of story or includes alot of exposure to unconsented PvP, I move on and let the guys who enjoy that experience, enjoy it.

 

We may be equal sides opposite on this issue but, you are the one asking for changes to the game I investigated beforehand, bought and am enjoying now.

 

Well if this is the first MMO you have ever purchased let me help you out by letting you know games like this get regular changes after release as well as patches adding content and bug fixes. Look at any MMO released one year later and you will see every MMO has had a lot of adjustments from original release.

 

If we are going to go by investigation, I saw this game was advertised as a MMO, during the day when I play there are maybe 3 to 4 people on the station and nobody to group with to do group content so in my experience, that does not qualify as a MMO.

 

Clearly the game must go through many large changes just to live up to the original MMO promises.

 

 

So far my game experience has been 99.99% single player, not because I have not tried to find other people to play with but because twice as many servers were created than they needed and my server went ghost town after the first 30 days. So tell me, why am I paying $15 a month for a single player game?

[Skidrowbro]

Does a gear check really matter on the LFG. People will be kicked regardless if their gear is good enough because it still won't be good enough for the elitists to do their speed runs

[kilosoldier]

Does a gear check really matter on the LFG. People will be kicked regardless if their gear is good enough because it still won't be good enough for the elitists to do their speed runs

 

People see right through these flimsy strawmen,

 

Bitter, emotional drivel....

[Mavery]

I certainly hope there will be a gear check added before the tool is launched for the good of all players.

 

Now I'm not suggesting that gear = skill or any ridiculous notion like that. You can be a skilled player that is very under-geared. That said, however, if you're not an upper echelon player, you cannot go into story mode EC or HM LI and expect to succeed in bad gear. It just won't work out.

 

So why do we need the gear check? To ensure the best possible experience for all players in the group. If the player is average, gear plays a huge role.

 

Now if it doesn't happen? One of the following will be very common:

 

• Under geared players will be vote kicked with frequency;
  
• If the above fails, tanks and healers will just drop group and re-queue.
  

 

Based on my own PUGing experiences on my server, I suspect we will have the same queue times as WoW: tanks will be instant and healers very fast or instant. No one wants to spend time wiping so the drop and re-queue by tanks/healers is very understandable. Is this what DPS wants? If you're a good DPS, and you've sat in the queue for almost an hour, just for tanks/healers to bail because one DPS can't cut it because he's under geared for the content?

 

Think about it.

[Skidrowbro]

People see right through these flimsy strawmen,

 

Bitter, emotional drivel....

 

It's called reality

[pure_laced]

I concede your point as valid, but this ability can (and has been) easily misused. When this was introduced in certain other MMO's, it caused a considerable community rift and resulted in a form of 'elitist' exclusion.

 

No it didn't. The gear check in WoW was there to prevent someone in quest greens for queuing up and wasting everyone else's time in dungeons like Grim Batol. Gearcheck addon caused some elitist exclusion, but the actual dungeon finder gear requirement did not. Do you not remember cheesing the gear requirement because it took account items in your inventory as well?