Bioware did listen to the fans.

[Angedechu]

In those dark days, we often hear people stating that ''Bioware did not listen to the fans''

 

Issue is, companies do listen to fans. They always listen. It's just that more ofen than not, they don't listen to the right fans.

 

Example from the top : Warcraft. ''People'' (aka individuals loudly complaining on forums) said that the game was way too easy with WOTLK heroics. Cue to CATA tough heroics and sub dip. Also, people complain loudly that LFR is way too easy, but that don't prevent it to keep going strong after six months. (1)

 

(1)That LFR and WOTLK heroics are ''easy'' is a matter of debate. They are easy if you have a competent tank and healer....

 

Biioware listened to fans asking for no LFG, ''since it destroy communities''. I imagine very well a CM seeing walls of posts and saying ''Gee, all those guys ask for no LFG, and we don't know much about MMOs, maybe it's the way yo go'' . Bioware listened to fans asking for more servers.

 

And about balance, there is a saying from Louis XIV

 

''Each time I'm generous, I'm making ten angry and one ingrate'' (IE, I make ten people jealous and the one guy want more)

[Amendial]

I think that is the one thing that people are missing right now: Bioware is making the first entrance into the online game market. I understand that WoW was the first MMO for Blizzard, but they had some kind of experience with an MMO type game in Diablo 2. Give Bioware some time to get a feel for the MMO world before you condemn them. I like what I am hearing from the company and I am excited to see how the game will evolve throughout the rest of this year.

[Korusus]

Biioware listened to fans asking for no LFG, ''since it destroy communities''. I imagine very well a CM seeing walls of posts and saying ''Gee, all those guys ask for no LFG, and we don't know much about MMOs, maybe it's the way yo go'' . Bioware listened to fans asking for more servers.

 

This is what I don't get. Where did this idea start and why in the world did BioWare not only listen to it, why are they still listening to it. First of all, modern MMOs like SW:TOR are not built on the strength of their communities because they aren't designed to be, this is not Ultima Online or EVE. Second of all, communities don't work out so well without you know...people.

[Sammm]

No matter what, some players will always keep reminding us about all the bad things and mistakes Bioware did with SWTOR. We know this is coming, someone will reply something like "Oh yeah?! You think they listen to the fans! Well, may I remind you about... " They know we get their point after the upteenth time but they'll keep repeating about it again and again. Anyway, I'm so happy I just have to enjoy SWTOR and not having to deal with them on a daily basis.

[gregordunbar]

"the fans" = all of the fans

"some fans" = some...of the fans

 

They did not listen to "the fans".

 

Sorry, I hate it when words are not used properly when it comes to something like this...just like when I hear a politician say "the American people" yet are only talking about what small amount of Americans hold their view.

[ryathal]

you are right about not listening to the right people for suggestions, but you chose a bad example.

[Angedechu]

No one is liking my kickass french saying....

[Amendial]

You cant listen to all the fans, its impossible. Even reading the thread about cross server FP queueing, it is split heavily between those who want it and those who do not want it. There is never a solution that fits the build of listening to all the fans. You have to pick and choose and then go with it. I support the choice to not do cross server for PvE.

[Frostvein]

In those dark days, we often hear people stating that ''Bioware did not listen to the fans''

 

Issue is, companies do listen to fans. They always listen. It's just that more ofen than not, they don't listen to the right fans.

 

Example from the top : Warcraft. ''People'' (aka individuals loudly complaining on forums) said that the game was way too easy with WOTLK heroics. Cue to CATA tough heroics and sub dip. Also, people complain loudly that LFR is way too easy, but that don't prevent it to keep going strong after six months. (1)

 

(1)That LFR and WOTLK heroics are ''easy'' is a matter of debate. They are easy if you have a competent tank and healer....

 

They were easy after the first two or three times through.

 

Problem was, they were designed for people wearing normal dungeon level gear - ilvl 187. Due to the ridiculously out of control item level scaling that existed in WOTLK, you had people wearing ilvl 277 (me) that were doing more damage then most 5 man groups were capable of doing at the beginning of the expansion when they were actually somewhat challenging for your standard 5 man pug. (remember all the people quitting Oculus?)

 

Yes, people complained that Wrath was too easy, because it became too easy. It was in terms of most instance difficulty (Naxx 2.0 was a joke, so was ToC and most of ICC) and how the rampant ilvl explosion made everything that came before the most recent patch a huge joke. They asked for more Uld type raids and better scaling.

 

Cata comes out, and the difficulty might (I say might) have been a tad bit harder, and because they changed threat modifiers and people didn't have 90 ilvls of cushion to fall back on, they wiped.

[Sathid]

There is no need for cross server LFG,server LFG is fine (I bet most people dont use it)

 

I have played EQ2 for seven years and it wasnt until last year that server LFG was introduced and after people had used it a few times they stopped because too often you would have too many of one class etc.

 

What i would very much like to have is group voice,EQ2 has had that for years my EQ2 friends and guildmates would say in General "Lking for 2 DPS for such and such" we would get some tells and let them know that we require people to have voice and if you dont wish to talk that is fine but we want you to hear us and you wouldnt believe the amount of people we met,we even set up a chat channel and whenever i signed on there would always be 5 to 20 people on in that chat from many guilds that we became friends with due to voice.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Sathid

[Darkulous]

No matter what they do you can argue that they're listening to the fans - LFD or no LFD. Not sure what this thread proves.

[Saltydogg]

I think that is the one thing that people are missing right now: Bioware is making the first entrance into the online game market. I understand that WoW was the first MMO for Blizzard, but they had some kind of experience with an MMO type game in Diablo 2. Give Bioware some time to get a feel for the MMO world before you condemn them. I like what I am hearing from the company and I am excited to see how the game will evolve throughout the rest of this year.

 

SO SOSOSOSOSOSOSOOSOOSOS Wrong. This is not the first MMO EA has put out. How come everyone forgets Warhammer. That project failed for the same reasons why TOR is failing now.

[Keadil]

No one is liking my kickass french saying....

 

I thought it was a great choice, and a brilliant summary of the MMO fanbase.

[Drudenfusz]

I don't think BioWare made the bad decision because some people on the forums said they would like to have it that way. BioWare made stupid decisions because they have now clue how to handle an MMO.

[Darkulous]

I don't think BioWare made the bad decision because some people on the forums said they would like to have it that way. BioWare made stupid decisions because they have now clue how to handle an MMO.

 

Exactly. This game lacks multiplayer features. Kinda makes sense considering BW is a (was) Single-Player Developer.

[GalacticKegger]

In those dark days, we often hear people stating that ''Bioware did not listen to the fans''

 

Issue is, companies do listen to fans. They always listen. It's just that more ofen than not, they don't listen to the right fans.

 

Example from the top : Warcraft. ''People'' (aka individuals loudly complaining on forums) said that the game was way too easy with WOTLK heroics. Cue to CATA tough heroics and sub dip. Also, people complain loudly that LFR is way too easy, but that don't prevent it to keep going strong after six months. (1)

 

(1)That LFR and WOTLK heroics are ''easy'' is a matter of debate. They are easy if you have a competent tank and healer....

 

Biioware listened to fans asking for no LFG, ''since it destroy communities''. I imagine very well a CM seeing walls of posts and saying ''Gee, all those guys ask for no LFG, and we don't know much about MMOs, maybe it's the way yo go'' . Bioware listened to fans asking for more servers.

 

And about balance, there is a saying from Louis XIV

 

''Each time I'm generous, I'm making ten angry and one ingrate'' (IE, I make ten people jealous and the one guy want more)

Personally I have no problem with LFG, especially when Bioware is combining a same-server tool with allowing subscribers to migrate to more populated/preferred servers. That was a move that made sense to many save maybe those who expect a massage with their automatic epic loot drops.

 

Same server means more accountability for one's actions while allowing small groups & soloers to experience advanced content without having to spam chat. The current LFG tool works, but it isn't intuitive enough for most who are used to 2 clicks and your in a queue to use. The new system isn't a WoW or LOTRO clone, it's a major leap forward for the current system.

 

But to your point I think Bioware's "cave in" that prompted them to be more cautious with how they deal with petulant mobs was when they placated nerd rage rants over login queues during early access by adding 6 dozen new servers at launch. IMHO it was that move that thinned the server populations out enough to create the issues we have now. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.

 

Coming full circle, the character transfer system combined with 1.3's same server LFG tool makes sense.

Edited May 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Alexi_son]

Well, here's what I want:

 

I want no LFG tool. I don't even want a GUI to tell me who among my guildies or friends are online.

 

I want open world dungeons with hordes of people all fighting over spawns and camp-spots, and roaming mobs that can path through an area and agro all their friends from the next camp over.

 

I want trains, honest to Goodness old-fashioned trains where a motivated player hellbent on making it to the exit of a dungeon can agro half the zone and drag it behind him to the zone in, where ungrouped people are waiting and LFG for a camp spot when one opens up -- and I want those trains of mobs to then agro on whoever's there at the zone in instead of becoming unhittable and running back to wherever they came from.

 

And corpse runs, I want corpse runs - naked ones, where if you die inside a zone, say deep inside a dungeon or area, you have to sneak back to your corpse naked, or you lose all the gear you've ever worked for.

 

And if someone kills you in PvP - they get to loot an item off your corpse - an item you've worked for and earned.

 

And my character needs to eat and drink - and I should have to carry food and water with me, and if I don't have food and water, or it's on my corpse, and I'm naked and trying to run back to my corpse - then my character should get hungry, and possibly starve, and suffer negative penalties - or even die if I can't get him to food in time.

 

THAT would be a game worth remembering - and foster a community.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Alexi_son

[GalacticKegger]

Exactly. This game lacks multiplayer features. Kinda makes sense considering BW is a (was) Single-Player Developer.

That's funny. Go 3 threads down and the complaint is that the game lacks soloability because too much of it requires grouping. Sucks right & sucks left. Zero them out and it's all opinion.

[Xannis]

In those dark days, we often hear people stating that ''Bioware did not listen to the fans''

 

Issue is, companies do listen to fans. They always listen. It's just that more ofen than not, they don't listen to the right fans.

 

Example from the top : Warcraft. ''People'' (aka individuals loudly complaining on forums) said that the game was way too easy with WOTLK heroics. Cue to CATA tough heroics and sub dip. Also, people complain loudly that LFR is way too easy, but that don't prevent it to keep going strong after six months. (1)

 

(1)That LFR and WOTLK heroics are ''easy'' is a matter of debate. They are easy if you have a competent tank and healer....

 

Biioware listened to fans asking for no LFG, ''since it destroy communities''. I imagine very well a CM seeing walls of posts and saying ''Gee, all those guys ask for no LFG, and we don't know much about MMOs, maybe it's the way yo go'' . Bioware listened to fans asking for more servers.

 

And about balance, there is a saying from Louis XIV

 

''Each time I'm generous, I'm making ten angry and one ingrate'' (IE, I make ten people jealous and the one guy want more)

 

I have no issue with the lack of a "dungeon finder" feature in SWTOR, in fact I wish they wouldn't implement it. It's not going to be cross-server so it will fail like most decisions they have made.

 

The problem with groups in SWTOR is the group size itself of 4. It should be 5 or 6. A group size of 4 really screws up the ratio between tanks/healers and dps. The day BW decided on a group size of 4 in lieu of larger groups they killed the game.

[Sathid]

I have no issue with the lack of a "dungeon finder" feature in SWTOR, in fact I wish they wouldn't implement it. It's not going to be cross-server so it will fail like most decisions they have made.

 

The problem with groups in SWTOR is the group size itself of 4. It should be 5 or 6. A group size of 4 really screws up the ratio between tanks/healers and dps. The day BW decided on a group size of 4 in lieu of larger groups they killed the game.

 

Not with dual spec coming.

[Darkulous]

That's funny. Go 3 threads down and the complaint is that the game lacks soloability because too much of it requires grouping. Sucks right & sucks left. Zero them out and it's all opinion.

 

Someone's opinion rings more true though. The multiplayer features in this game suck. The GTN? Awful. The Guild Interface? Pathetic. The current LFD? Laughable. Even the Chat Window is lousy.

 

As for the complaint with soloability? You can get to level 50 solo and that's not opinion.

[Darth-Malice]

They sure did listen to there "fans" after 400,000 communicated strongly though quitting the game.

[Kalfear]

I think that is the one thing that people are missing right now: Bioware is making the first entrance into the online game market. I understand that WoW was the first MMO for Blizzard, but they had some kind of experience with an MMO type game in Diablo 2. Give Bioware some time to get a feel for the MMO world before you condemn them. I like what I am hearing from the company and I am excited to see how the game will evolve throughout the rest of this year.

 

NWN was AOL first MMORPG attempt, million dollar + a month bussines in the 90s

UO was Origins first MMORPG attempt,

EQ was Verrants first MMO attempt,

DAoC was Mythics first MMO attempt

WOW was Blizzards first MMO attempt

 

Fact is most successful MMOs were someones FIRST ATTEMPT!

 

So no, I dont give Bioware leeway because they should have learned from all those titles before it and not make the same mistakes.

 

The areas EAoware is coming up short in are areas already tried and tested in previous MMORPGs. EAowares voice and story worked well, its the standard MMO mechanics that this game is short on.

 

And actually, Mythic released DAoC and Warhammer and has been beside EAoware since day one so you cant really call this a "first" as they had plenty of experienced workers and mangement to draw knowledge from.

 

So tired of this "Its EAowares first MMO, let them stumble around blind for a year" attitude.

 

Its not acceptable that they missed so many key MMORPG elements in their game. Just like it was unacceptable that Rift was so mind knumbingly easy when it launched.

Both titles suffer from not doing their homework of the genres history.

 

And sorry, while I know now a days its trendy to forgive everything and low expectations on everyone. I dont buy into that mentality. You get credit by doing it right, effort is not enough when your charging any fee at all.

[GalacticKegger]

Someone's opinion rings more true though. The multiplayer features in this game suck. The GTN? Awful. The Guild Interface? Pathetic. The current LFD? Laughable. Even the Chat Window is lousy.

 

As for the complaint with soloability? You can get to level 50 solo and that's not opinion.

I've played MMORPGs since UO. Play enough of them and one of two perspectives occur. Either: (a) unrealistically expect every new MMO to include the best of the best features from every MMO that's preceded it, or (b) temper expectations based on having been there and done that.

 

I agree that the game needs improvement in every area you mentioned. But laughable? Soloing to 50 can be done if most H4s and all flashpoints are skipped. Anyone who says they can solo those level appropriate is selling more than their opinion. But that's just my opinion.

Edited May 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Lightstrake]

I want something that was useful in WoW: Trade Chat. It connected everyone from every city in the server. Wait a second, we don't have major cities.

 

All I want is major cities and towns. I never got the chance to play SW:G, but I hear it's player-made towns made it incredible to pass by and see them. In WoW, I enjoyed living and eventually controlling the area of Goldshire. (I was their leader)

 

All I care about it using the Senate Tower, Imperial City (forgot what they called the Dromund Kaas town), Imperial and Republic Fleets as major cities FOR now.