Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Kunitsukami]

Who didn't down Ragnaros. I have magical rainbows that shoot out of my *** when I fart. I am saying it on the internet where I don't have to have proof so it must be true. Also to know that you had "X" amount of DPS sustained is an admission that you had access to a parser. You're a smart guy:)

 

Of course I had access to a parser... I have an educated opinion, I used about 6 add-ons at any one time during WoW. You really are just undeniable small minded.

[ShotByBothSides]

Old chestnut, same reply as for the past many years.

No thank you, never please.

 

It leads to nowt but poor behaviour and there is enough of that already without adding another weapon for the "we are elite at a video game players". I think you will find that the majority of the subscribers to this game will be perfectly happy without it.

 

Some of the fun with games of this type is to work out for oneself what makes me/you better or worse at something. I would rather puzzle that out over time than rely on a statistical tool, which may be inaccurate too.

[BrianDavion]

I don't get the fascination with DPS numbers in MMOs, quite honestly DPS is in my experiance the least important thing in raids. if your DPS is slightly slower you're still gonna take the boss out if your healers and tanks are on their game, and useally it's obvious when they are

[Chosenxeno]

So basically the position on the WoW players here is the 'not very veiled threat' to BW that if they don't implement what they desire, they will leave and kill their game. Because, after all, WoW players are the MMORPG population, and if they left, there would be no player base. That is a very static statement. It doesn't take into consideration a growth in playerbase for SW:TOR as a result of such things as marketing strategies, having a theme which attracts a SW fanbase who would not necessarily be MMO players previously. I'm sure there are contingency plans in place for if and when the WoW players decide to pull the plug.

 

 

Those growing players are a MAJORITY WOW visitors. What part of WOW Players are the MMO base/ Population are people not getting? I'm not threatening them i'm just saying the bulk of their population right now are Visitors from Azeroth. That's a fact. You need only to scan the forums or join a Guild. It was the same in Rift. Rift started with 100 servers. It was in a less buggy state than Sw:TOr but it lacked Addons and Macros.

 

This debate happened on their forums too. Why do you think that game is about 70 to 80 servers shorter than it was at launch? People went back to their MMOs(not just WOW) that had the stuff in it already. Newer MMOs had better step their game up.

 

Macros,UI Customization, LFD in some form all need to be in the game out of the box. Or people will go back to playing their games with Dated Graphics that "plays" better than yours.

[Chosenxeno]

Raiding is very niche. Always will be.

 

I've raided since EQ.

 

Raiding my have been Niche in the days of the Almighty EQ but that has changed. Everyone wants to try their hand at it. Welcome to 2012 where Raid Browsers exist.

[jeepoverland]

Yes.

 

Reason: I think the MMO world has spoken and said that if you cannot tangibly tell a group/raid's performance in the form of numbers.....then your MMO is doomed to a life of mediocrity at best, or F2P which is worse.

 

Why is WoW's community so large? A big part is due to the fact that there are elite guilds, recognition for epic achievements and so on...it gives the other 99% of the player base something to shoot for, something to be jealous of....

 

Fact is, elite guilds will not exist in a game where you cannot actually see how good or bad someone's healing or DPS is. People WANT #s, Graphs Charts......many people will say they dont.....but those are the same people who will leave your game when the people who don't suck end up leaving. FACT.

[Chosenxeno]

Of course I had access to a parser... I have an educated opinion, I used about 6 add-ons at any one time during WoW. You really are just undeniable small minded.

 

Oh another "Addons made the game too easy for me".

My Response: Turn them off then you know you can right?

Your Response: but my guild says I have too waaaah

My Response: Then don't join a guild that requires Addons. You know you don't have to join them right?

 

Thing you secretly know in your hear of heats: Those Guilds have the best purples and the best players.

 

 

There. I've done the work for you so we needn't speak:p

[Chosenxeno]

Yes.

 

Reason: I think the MMO world has spoken and said that if you cannot tangibly tell a group/raid's performance in the form of numbers.....then your MMO is doomed to a life of mediocrity at best, or F2P which is worse.

 

Why is WoW's community so large? A big part is due to the fact that there are elite guilds, recognition for epic achievements and so on...it gives the other 99% of the player base something to shoot for, something to be jealous of....

 

Fact is, elite guilds will not exist in a game where you cannot actually see how good or bad someone's healing or DPS is. People WANT #s, Graphs Charts......many people will say they dont.....but those are the same people who will leave your game when the people who don't suck end up leaving. FACT.

 

Someone who gets it. *applause*. I saw this happen to Rift. They need to listen to the Raiders in MMOs not the "MMO of the Month" crowd. WOW players are here and they wanna stay. Help us to help you lol

Edited January 8, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[GalacticKegger]

Yes.

 

Reason: I think the MMO world has spoken and said that if you cannot tangibly tell a group/raid's performance in the form of numbers.....then your MMO is doomed to a life of mediocrity at best, or F2P which is worse.

The 15% of the MMO world that grinds end game anyway according to WOWprogress.com. 15% isn't much of a voice. Edited January 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Gohlar]

Yes.

 

Reason: I think the MMO world has spoken and said that if you cannot tangibly tell a group/raid's performance in the form of numbers.....then your MMO is doomed to a life of mediocrity at best, or F2P which is worse.

 

Why is WoW's community so large? A big part is due to the fact that there are elite guilds, recognition for epic achievements and so on...it gives the other 99% of the player base something to shoot for, something to be jealous of....

 

Fact is, elite guilds will not exist in a game where you cannot actually see how good or bad someone's healing or DPS is. People WANT #s, Graphs Charts......many people will say they dont.....but those are the same people who will leave your game when the people who don't suck end up leaving. FACT.

 

Couldn't disagree more.

 

Spoonfeeding your players is neither necessary or good imo. Not everyone is in a hurry to trivialize the game as fast as they possibly can.

 

Don't be afraid to figure things out on your own. This attitude of NEEDING to cheat is ridiculous.

 

There is already a game that tells you what to do, how to do it, where to do it and when to do it. We don't need another. I've been raiding since EQ. Easy mode is LAME.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Gohlar

[Kunitsukami]

Oh another "Addons made the game too easy for me".

My Response: Turn them off then you know you can right?

Your Response: but my guild says I have too waaaah

My Response: Then don't join a guild that requires Addons. You know you don't have to join them right?

 

Thing you secretly know in your hear of heats: Those Guilds have the best purples and the best players.

 

 

There. I've done the work for you so we needn't speak:p

 

You tend to like to create as much fiction and lies to suit your own purposes as possible don't you. What you're spewing would tend to be known as bile and your mindset may be known as arrogant and ignorant.

[Hy_C]

I'm going to agree that they do need to implement a Combat Log and the ability to use Mods in this game, but I will disagree on the fact that they should use their time and resources on other things rather than their own "Recount". They have plenty of support from mod makers that are very capable and ready to jump on these things.

 

To those that disagree on there being a "Recount", there are many things that the Combat Parsers are needed for. As an Officer of a Raiding guild in WoW and SWOTR there are many things I need to look for in our member's performance. Not only would I like to know if I'm performing to my utmost ability there are many other mechanics and such in raid bosses that I need to know if my raid members are pulling their weight.

 

Some examples of this would be if there are any adds or such in a raid boss. I need to know if my dps are actively switching to these adds and killing them. I need to know if my raid members are popping cooldowns, standing out of fire, etc. Another thing is bosses with Enrage mechanics, if my raid dps is not pulling enough and we keep hitting enrage how will i know who's messing up? I can't simply kick the lowest geared because in reality he could have been the one pulling the most dps.

 

These are only a few examples of why there needs to be Combat log with Parser in this game. It could be one made by Bioware or by a third-party, there just needs to be one.

[Alexthree]

I was going to respond to the "99%" thread but it closed so I suppose this is as good a place as any to post my views on the subject.

 

 

Apparently people don't want mods. Some people do, however. Thing is, they're completely optional. It's something you go get outside the game and install manually. Nobody will ever be forced to use them, and the addition of mods will have no effect on anyone who doesn't want them.

 

Sometimes mods give the developer an idea for a new feature, if enough people want it it's added. This is a good thing.

 

I've heard people say, mods/damage meter etc will make the game easier. Which is ridiculous, it will just give hardcore players something to mess with and theorycraft over. Just like a combat log. How does it affect casuals, if some players are raiding more efficiently? Just as some players live for the story, and some enjoy playing the economy, some like to theorycraft and work out optimal gear and rotations.

 

 

Mods don't make the game easier. They might make things more concise, or provide information in a way we can understand it. They might give players more options, and ability to control the way they play the game. Just like macros, which don't let you faceroll but rather give you more customisation.

 

People say "we don't want mods/damage meters/theorycrafting!" and all I hear is "stop liking what I don't like!" As long as such things are optional who the hell cares? The only people who should get an opinion are the ones who WANT it. The ones who don't can turn it off.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Alexthree

[Gohlar]

od thing.

 

I've heard people say, mods/damage meter etc will make the game easier. Which is ridiculous, it will just give hardcore players something to mess with and theorycraft over. Just like a combat log. How does it affect casuals, if some players are raiding more efficiently? Just as some players live for the story, and some enjoy playing the economy, some like to theorycraft and work out optimal gear and rotations.

.

 

I hate to break this to you but making it really, really easy to be optimal makes the game a LOT easier.

 

I don't know how you could even suggest it doesn't. It's not up for debate, it's a fact. They trivialize the game, it's literally what they are designed to do!

Edited January 8, 2012 by Gohlar

[Chosenxeno]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

Spoonfeeding your players is neither necessary or good imo. Not everyone is in a hurry to trivialize the game as fast as they possibly can.

 

Don't be afraid to figure things out on your own. This attitude of NEEDING to cheat is ridiculous.

 

There is already a game that tells you what to do, how to do it, where to do it and when to do it. We don't need another. I've been raiding since EQ. Easy mode is LAME.

 

 

LOL @ needing to cheat. Do you know what recount is at all?

[Maeleena]

FYI OP, but Recount IS the damage meter that everyone hates. It isn't needed, as it only is used for people to flex their epeens.

[Gohlar]

LOL @ needing to cheat. Do you know what recount is at all?

 

Used it for years.

 

You want the game to tell you how to play. It's like getting a hint. You feel you cannot play without the game literally showing you what to do.

 

I don't get it. Why are you in such a hurry to be done with the game?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Gohlar

[Hy_C]

People say "we don't want mods/damage meters/theorycrafting!" and all I hear is "stop liking what I don't like!" As long as such things are optional who the hell cares? The only people who should get an opinion are the ones who WANT it. The ones who don't can turn it off.

 

When I try to put myself in their shoes, the only reason I can see to not play to the best that I can is either they don't care to be the best that they can be or that they don't want other to judge them for not being a good as they could be.

 

From my perspective if I'm going to be bringing someone to the raid it's because they're playing to the best that they can. I'm not going to bring someone who does less dps because they don't care to be better.

[Alexthree]

I hate to break this to you but making it really, really easy to be optimal makes the game a LOT easier.

 

I don't know how you could even suggest it doesn't. It's not up for debate, it's a fact. They trivialize the game, it's literally what they are designed to do!

 

 

They don't trivialise the game, they add something that currently doesn't exist.

 

 

It's not about making it EASIER to be perfect, it's about giving you the ability to find out how to be perfect. With no combat log, meters or anything to track your damage aside from watching flytext you'll never be able to optimise.

 

 

You are seriously deluding yourself if you think combat is remotely interesting right now. Adding a competitive nature to the game is not the bad thing. And, remember, you don't HAVE to be competitive.

 

Why do you care how I play the game? "Stop liking what I don't like!" is all I hear. If it is optional, you can turn it off. If it doesn't exist, I don't get it. There's a way for both of us to have what we want- why do you feel the need to argue against that?

[jeepoverland]

I hate to break this to you but making it really, really easy to be optimal makes the game a LOT easier.

 

I don't know how you could even suggest it doesn't. It's not up for debate, it's a fact. They trivialize the game, it's literally what they are designed to do!

 

Just because you can tell how much dmg or healing you're doing DOESN'T make things "easy mode" like you suggest. If that were true then a large portion of people who play WoW woudl be good and reach end game content. Fact is, most people are major suck tards and even when their MODS tell them they suck....somehow they continue sucking!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

If you want this game to succeed you MUST cater to the 15% that you claim reach end content/raid/want to know their % its those 15% that the other 85% and spending their $$$$ and time to try and be like that will keep this game alive..

 

 

Your quote about not wanting to play a game that tells you what to do, where to go and when to do it......are you F*ing kidding me....no game has ever directed you where what and when to go MORE than this game except for maybe Warhammer Online.........ANOTHER Bioware game.

 

L2reality

[Gohlar]

When I try to put myself in their shoes, the only reason I can see to not play to the best that I can is either they don't care to be the best that they can be or that they don't want other to judge them for not being a good as they could be.

 

From my perspective if I'm going to be bringing someone to the raid it's because they're playing to the best that they can. I'm not going to bring someone who does less dps because they don't care to be better.

 

You are missing the point I think.

 

It makes the game a lot easier. I realize you guys want to look everything up, follow a spread sheet and be done with everything as fast as possible. I just want to know why I guess.

 

It's a lot more satisfying if you do it yourself, you only deny yourself accomplishment by trivializing everything.

 

 

They don't trivialise the game, they add something that currently doesn't exist.

 

 

It's not about making it EASIER to be perfect, it's about giving you the ability to find out how to be perfect.

 

 

Exactly! It's supposed to be SO easy to be perfect! That's the majority of the game right there, why use a tool to do it for you? It makes a huge difference in terms of difficulty. If it made no difference you wouldn't care!

Edited January 8, 2012 by Gohlar

[jeepoverland]

You are missing the point I think.

 

It makes the game a lot easier. I realize you guys want to look everything up, follow a spread sheet and be done with everything as fast as possible. I just want to know why I guess.

 

It's a lot more satisfying if you do it yourself, you only deny yourself accomplishment by trivializing everything.

 

Because your method of thinking keeps players engaged in a game for maybe 90 days.....after that they leave.

[Alexthree]

When I try to put myself in their shoes, the only reason I can see to not play to the best that I can is either they don't care to be the best that they can be or that they don't want other to judge them for not being a good as they could be.

 

From my perspective if I'm going to be bringing someone to the raid it's because they're playing to the best that they can. I'm not going to bring someone who does less dps because they don't care to be better.

 

Exactly. It feels like the 'casual' community (with regards to raiding, combat, etc) doesn't want to have that separating.

 

In WoW you had an 'elite class' of guilds and then everyone else. So maybe people who were the 99% there don't want that again.

 

Which, if the case, is kind of sad. That's a weird insecurity thing that shouldn't be part of this discussion. I hope that's not the reason people would argue this. I was self-made-mad worked my way up to the top in WoW and it was fun for me to do that. I liked having something to aim for. I played the non-raid scene for a long time as well, and enjoyed that too. Why can't people just play the game they want and let others do the same?

[Gohlar]

Exactly. It feels like the 'casual' community (with regards to raiding, combat, etc) doesn't want to have that separating.

 

 

Coming from EQ it's strange to me to see so called "hardcore" players ask for tools to make things easier for them. I mean WoW was just pathetic after a while with recount and dbm, but I guess figuring it out yourself is too much work?

 

Crazy...

Edited January 8, 2012 by Gohlar

[Alexthree]

You are missing the point I think.

 

It makes the game a lot easier. I realize you guys want to look everything up, follow a spread sheet and be done with everything as fast as possible. I just want to know why I guess.

 

It's a lot more satisfying if you do it yourself, you only deny yourself accomplishment by trivializing everything.

 

 

Do what yourself? I don't understand. Spam keys until the monster is dead? Hope you're doing good with no way of telling?

 

Tell me this- do the SAT's make it easier to do math? No. They tell you how good at it you are. A test tells you your strong and weak points and where to improve. It lets you try different things until you achieve the desired result.

 

With no way to test yourself, no gauge, you're really just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. How is SCIENCE 'easier' than random guesses?