neillien Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yes! I don't care about how much DPS the other player is doing... if they are nice people I'm glad to have them with me. I want it purely for my own self-evaluation... I like to push myself to get that little bit extra performance, and it gives me a tool to let me know if rotation ABC works better than rotation DEF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinij Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Recount was the worst thing to happen to WoW. Classes were actively discriminated against because it was public knowledge that they deal 10% less damage during moving fights. I never want to see gearscore and recount in the game. It causes all kind of immersion-breaking retardation and douchebaggery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmah Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Recount was the worst thing to happen to WoW. Classes were actively discriminated against because it was public knowledge that they deal 10% less damage during moving fights. I never want to see gearscore and recount in the game. It causes all kind of immersion-breaking retardation and douchebaggery. It is a tool. Do not blame the tool or deny it from people who would use it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripenfelter Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Recount was the worst thing to happen to WoW. Classes were actively discriminated against because it was public knowledge that they deal 10% less damage during moving fights. I never want to see gearscore and recount in the game. It causes all kind of immersion-breaking retardation and douchebaggery. I agree...No do not want! It creates elitism and I don't need elitist in something I enjoy. It's a game and as long as the objective is met it doesn't matter how it's done. Edited January 7, 2012 by gripenfelter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 No! It creates elitism and I don't need elitist in something I enjoy. It's a game and as long as the objective is met it doesn't matter how it's done. And what if the objective isn't being met, and it isn't being met because someone is doing very bad dps or is falling behind in heals? How exactly do you address that issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Because the raid leader brought player Y, he is a bad raid leader. Not standing in fires is a given in plenty of guilds raids. Let me throw another scenario. Player X does 5000 DPS and player Y does 3000 DPS. They are the same class with the same level of gear. Neither stand in fires and get themselves dead or any other raid members dead. Without dps meters there is nothing seperating these two, theres virtually no way to tell. So raid leader brings player Y because of seniority and is non the wiser that hes actually worthless. But you have no way of knowing if that player will stand in the fire or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raknier Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 YES. It's very needed. The people who are totally against it are usually the people who end up on the very bottom of the recount. In all honesty, who likes to be terrible? No one, but that doesn't change the fact that it's cheating the better players, who put effort into learning their class and rotation, from achieving the best. I have no respect for people who don't want a damage meter. The only logical reason why they wouldn't want one is because they know they're terrible, and they don't want everyone else to know. In summary. Low-skill players: Don't want it. High-skill players: Want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nope. It's not needed for any content in the game. Combat Logs will be back in sometime (soon?) and people will be able to parse damage/performance/fights to their heart's content outside of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 number crunching is fine and everything, and a great help for ppl that want to write guides and stuff. but for us mere mortals that don't have a CPU where our brain should be. dont his just suck the fun out of the game? i mean i don't really look forward to the day the groups start kicking ppl because their 10% less efficient than they could be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianoia Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 No recount. Combat logs will be nice. I'd like a threat meter more, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laiov Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I do support this. Two reasons: 1. It's hard to improve if you don't know how well you're doing, and you don't really know how well you're doing without some kind of real-time log to quantify performance. Here's an example. Last night we were pugging hard mode BT. We barely killed the second to lass boss because he was enraging. We then failed repeatedly to kill the lass boss due to enrage. It was clear that this was a DPS problem. But which of us needed to step up his game? Was it me? Was it the Sorc? No logs, no way to tell. Eventually the Sorc was replaced with a BH and we killed the boss with absolutely no problem next pull. Had the Sorc not had a guildie in the group who recognized that he didn't really know what he was doing, the group might have just folded instead. 2. I think raid boss fights would be extremely repetitive without some kind of real-time log to quantify performance. Raid boss health pools are huge, as a necessity, which means your DPS abilities have no apparent impact beyond that your group either beats the enrage timer or it doesn't. So DPSing a raid boss with no DPS meter is a lot like pushing buttons that do nothing for five minutes while you dodge mechanics around the room. I can't speak for others but that would bore me, at least. Edited January 7, 2012 by Laiov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillien Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yes! I don't care about how much DPS the other player is doing... if they are nice people I'm glad to have them with me. I want it purely for my own self-evaluation... I like to push myself to get that little bit extra performance, and it gives me a tool to let me know if rotation ABC works better than rotation DEF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 But you have no way of knowing if that player will stand in the fire or not... Recount actually tells you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I have no problem with meters. I have a problem with the people who use them who decide that in order to get to the top of the DPS they will spam AoE regardless of whether it is needed or appropriate or not and will race to start DPS before the tank. You should hear their QQ when they die from their own stupidity I have a problem with people who will not do their job of interrupting or moving out of the fire because they are too concerned with their position on the meters. I have a problem with idiot healers spamming their top heal (again AoE) because somehow they think healing is the same thing as DPS. I have a problem with idiot raid leaders who judge a player by where they are on the meters and promote the behaviour I have described above. I have no problems with the meters.. Unfortunately the majority of the MMO players I have met apparently have some sort of mental must be top of meters types. These idiots are the same people who come crying to the forums to nerf content because it is too hard for them.. Already seen some of it people qq'ing because the class quests are too hard because they fail at interrupting. They come crying then content gets nerfed/dumbed down because they fail. They fail because they do not want to work at something to become good at it but expect everything to be there in front of them and they try and be all smug going I shouldn't have to work to be good at a game.. goddammit.. go back to WoW I have no problem with meters. To discourage the type of people above I am happy to say NO to meters. mad? Edited January 7, 2012 by corbanite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaslapu Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I reject anything that makes this game feel like WoW. So no, I don't support recount, or whatever it's called. Take your gs and raid parses back to WoW. Or better yet, go play a real PvP game, BF3, MW3...jeezuz the list just goes on and on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripenfelter Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) And what if the objective isn't being met, and it isn't being met because someone is doing very bad dps or is falling behind in heals? How exactly do you address that issue? You do by figuring out the problem and teaching others how. What happens with dps meters is if someone isn't very good, the meter shows it and elitist kick them from the group. Instead of helping that person get better. Nobody wants to be terrible and everyone wants to enjoy them game. DPS meters allows selfish kids to be e-thugs instead of doing what's right and showing others how it's done. Plus it tends to segregated classes. Players get left out because of poor classes and that's not something they can control. Edited January 7, 2012 by gripenfelter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I reject anything that makes this game feel like WoW. So no, I don't support recount, or whatever it's called. Take your gs and raid parses back to WoW. Or better yet, go play a real PvP game, BF3, MW3...jeezuz the list just goes on and on... I hope you aren't looking forward to end game content then, cause I got some bad new for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You do by figuring out the problem and teaching others how. What happens with dps meters is if someone isn't very good, the meter shows it and elitist kick them from the group. Instead of helping that person get better. Nobody wants to be terrible and everyone wants to enjoy them game. DPS meters allows selfish kids to be e-thugs instead of doing what's right and showing others how it's done. It's not my job to teach people how to play the game. Sorry. If I had to help every single person who didn't know what they were doing I wouldn't actually have any time to play the game at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's not my job to teach people how to play the game. Sorry. If I had to help every single person who didn't know what they were doing I wouldn't actually have any time to play the game at all. So then it is ok for me to kick you for doing sub par dps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) So then it is ok for me to kick you for doing sub par dps? If I'm not performing my role as I should be, and it's hindering the group , then yes, you should kick me. Edited January 7, 2012 by Griminal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) So then it is ok for me to kick you for doing sub par dps? what if my DPS is low because I am doing my job of interrupting, moving out of the fire and switching to kill adds? Should I be kicked then because my DPS is lower than the idiot who stands still and spams his rotation against the boss? meters encourage bad gameplay from a lot of people.. not better Edited January 7, 2012 by corbanite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripenfelter Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's not my job to teach people how to play the game. Sorry. If I had to help every single person who didn't know what they were doing I wouldn't actually have any time to play the game at all. Then don't be the teacher....but you can't be the judge and jury either. People pay money to play this game to enjoy it, not to be ruined by elitist e-thugs. I tell you what..I'll support a dps meter if you support them not giving groups the ability to kick players and huge penalties to people who leave the groups because they think their group sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 what if my DPS is low because I am doing my job of interrupting, moving out of the fire and switching to kill adds? Should I be kicked then because my DPS is lower than the idiot who stands still and spams his rotation against the boss? DPS meters encourage bad gameplay from a lot of people.. not better Like I said, if you aren't performing your role as you should be and it's hindering the group, then yes you should be kicked. As well as this person standing in fire and doing more dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 these post above this about kicking ppl not doing good dps. or its not certain ppls job to teach others how to play, is exactly why this feature is not fun, its a system like this that causes LFD to be required to get a group. due to the fact that no1 will group together unless they have never played together before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) what if my DPS is low because I am doing my job of interrupting, moving out of the fire and switching to kill adds? Should I be kicked then because my DPS is lower than the idiot who stands still and spams his rotation against the boss? I disagree with allowing meters. For my own good I would like to see what I do, but I dont need to see yours. Meters and addons are bad for the community. People need to learn how to play with crutches. As per your question, booting anyone with low dps is really selfish. EDIT: Also, my class has 3 dps specs (marauder) Why should I have to play the spec that everyone else plays because it does 1% more damage?? Meters lead to cookie cutter specs. Edited January 7, 2012 by darthdoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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