Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[aenena]

I stated this earlier.

 

Recount should be used on "In game Target dummies" where you can refine your dps and healers can use the same area for focus healing refinement. In raids I do not like them. As they make bad and awful players worse. Because they are so focused on trying to keep up with the top dps that they stand in fire, acid, etc.

 

Which leads to wipes and anger. Now if anyone in the raid can have it. It should be only the raid leader and his/her assistants and not postable to the general raid. It is the only way I could ever accept it. I do not want it shown in public chat. I do not want it in dungeons or anything else. Just those two examples no more.

[Colobulous]

Recount should be used on "In game Target dummies" where you can refine your dps and healers can use the same area for focus healing refinement.

 

Dummies are useless, should be removed from the game because they mislead people way too often.

 

In raids I do not like them. As they make bad and awful players worse. Because they are so focused on trying to keep up with the top dps that they stand in fire, acid, etc.

 

Funny, I use Recount to point out when they take the damage they don't need to take.

 

Which leads to wipes and anger. Now if anyone in the raid can have it. It should be only the raid leader and his/her assistants and not postable to the general raid. It is the only way I could ever accept it. I do not want it shown in public chat. I do not want it in dungeons or anything else. Just those two examples no more.

 

You can't stop people from posting whatever they want in public chat, and I don't want it restricted to leaders, I dislike that whole concept as it is.

[Colobulous]

This is not about visibility, this is about exposure. And game policy. The signal effect of anything done in this direction will be huge. And that must be known on some level.

 

And excluding it wouldn't have the same impact? Besides, why do you think the game wouldn't be built with intentional consideration for combat performance?

 

If anything, I'd rather people stop trying to kid themselves over it.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[Nakraka]

recount or any other dps/healing meter is the ONLY mod i run or would run. I use it to see how much damage or healing i am doing. mods make games too easy!

[Amanda_C]

Recount is a tool that can display a number of statistics. It provides a good deal of information that is particularly useful when trying to progress through end game content. Why wouldn't you want a tool like that?

 

If the reason you are opposed to Recount is because jerks might misuse it, that is a poor reason. Jerks misuse loot systems, general chat, and addons. The solution is not to eliminate the possibility of loot systems or addons or general chat. The solution is not to play with jerks.

 

I would love to have a tool that could help me to analyze what I or my fellow party members am doing during end game progression. Recount does that.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Amanda_C

[Chrilin]

I'm a Min/Maxer

 

It's actually part of this type of game I enjoy. So Recount is a really good tool for me.

 

I understand some of the reasons against recount, but For me it seems things like gear score are worse. Peeps play at different levels and gear score only tells part of the story.

 

That being said... Everyone is entitled to their own play style, and as long as addons don't give a player an unfair advantage I'm cool with them.

 

Fingers crossed for tomorrow, Oct 5 preorder

[copter]

If the reason you are opposed to Recount is because jerks might misuse it, that is a poor reason. Jerks misuse loot systems, general chat, and addons. The solution is not to eliminate the possibility of loot systems or addons or general chat. The solution is not to play with jerks.

 

So you basically want to give the "jerks" more tools to abuse?

 

Why not make all of the servers PvP too? That way we can get abused no matter what we do. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

[CorvusKahn]

I dislike the Recount addon as seen in WoW. As such I would be strongly against any similar system in SWTOR. I don't like being booted from groups if my DPS is lacking. Nor do I like people constantly bragging about how good their own DPS by posting the information during a group.

 

So, no thanks.

[Colobulous]

Oh. I didn't actually expect that much hostility from your response, but it does still warrant a reply.

 

You might try less hostility in your reply yourself then.

 

And I have found it very detrimental that people do not perform well in a group because of a narrow vision of a DPS meter. More as a rule than an exception. But I assume this is the difference in our experiences which leads to the reasons we say yes or no to this question in particular.

 

Perhaps, but unless you want to conduct a thorough survey of the population, otherwise I don't see how we could resolve it in those terms.

 

Me? I'm just going to accept that the game is going to have challenges that are measured in combat mechanics, and if there's somebody who focuses on the meter too much? Well, they're just as much a problem as those who want to ignore performance and do whatever they want.

 

Later on you will accuse me of reading the convenient parts, when I merely stated from the beginning that you were using the phrases and words to pick that suited your purpose of downgrading a whole argument. As if it was not even worth debate. Which is just fine, I was just pointing it out because I hoped you'd addressed the point itself.

 

If you wish me to reply to something, instead of making remarks like this, stick to what you have to say. Bring up the point again, it's much more effective a tool.

 

Oh don't be like that. You're just as much a hypocrite in the same boat. Your sentences are beating around the bushes and serve the purpose of trying to make you look as 'being right' in an argument between opinions. There are no facts to back up the want/need for a parser, only opinions. If you truly disagree with that, then we're both wasting our time here.

 

Uh, no. Don't try to hide behind the "It's just an opinion" claim. There are statements of preference, and statements of fact. Prefer what you like, but when you claim "facts" and "interpretations" well, you may be called to answer for them.

 

Contradicting yourself, when the sentences are originally intertwined. See above about the hypocrisy.

 

See typo. See typo fixed.

 

I am familiar with the trinity system and I do realize it does play a part in this. I was stating my observation of DPS classes having a wider role than just nuking down whatever. The fact that you could pull off Flashpoints and Groups without a tank made me fall in love with the mechanics. I understand you didn't quite have a similar experience from the quote below.

 

Oh, I had the similar experience with not needing a tank. It was with a DPS zerg instead, though, nothing productive or innovative.

 

I do not recognize ToR in this. Which is probably the root of our disagreement.

 

It's the ToR I've seen so far. I don't consider it preferable.

 

Please, no martyrdom or patronizing acts. It makes me feel hostile because I'm inclined to interpret it as a last resort of stupid people and I'm quite sure you're not such a thing. Let's keep this civil, pretty please?

 

I'm not sure how you took it that way at all.

 

I just reflected on how I'd prefer a log over observation, with what I consider a whimsical statement.

 

But if you want to be civil, try to avoid characterizing my remarks.

 

This. I have no idea where you got this idea.

 

From your words, they replied to mine, with WOW as an example, when I didn't bring it up, and didn't come across as your observations, but as a statement that it was not the best, which had nothing to do with what I've said, and doesn't even come close to my true opinion on the subject of WOW.

 

My remark was:

 

Actually, every game needs a lot of it, it keeps the game fair and balanced. Otherwise people will be breaking it, because it won't be set up properly.

 

Your reply started talking about WOW, being popular, but not the best, which really wasn't directed to what I was saying at all, but just about WOW for some reason.

 

I was using WoW before as a comparison, I never claimed that you had said anything about it. The reason I used it as a comparison is stated on the thread with a word 'recount'. Since damage parsing with the option to share seems to be a big of a thing to you, I had to draw from what experience I've had. I have to admit that WoW is the only game that I have played that parsing was such a big a deal. That's my reference, not yours. I've no idea where you got the impression I said anything otherwise.

 

You might want to try other games then, or more experience with understanding the design and theory of games. Then you might understand why I neither mentioned WOW.

 

It's not important, it's not even a good example of how to do it.

 

On the contrary! I have no problem accepting it. I know it's not compatible with mine, but your patronizing attitude also in former threads about the parser has left a certain impression of not budging an inch about your opinion. I do not expect nor wish to change your mind. Just open it to other you'll be playing with for a hopefully long time.

 

I sense there's a personalization to your discussions. Here's something you might want to consider:

 

I don't have that kind of thing towards you. I don't look at your name, or think of you in this argument.

 

Please respect me as a person enough to leave me out of the argument.

 

So far it's been pretty much what I've been hoping for. Fortunately for now you can't really tell me what it will or won't be. And sorry about the WoW, didn't realize it was such a downer-subject. My reference was truly only because of the thread title, which is still the subject we're discussing.

 

I consider it descriptive, not determinative.

 

Martyrdom again? Or just conclusions of a delude mind? I do not wish to change your mind nor do I have any need to control anyone. I think I've written in a less provocative way than you have.

 

Hardly. You just called me deluded. That's quite provocative.

 

This is somewhat uncharacteristic of me, since I believe provocative text can be most rewarding with an intelligent partner to debate with; it draws the lines better. Now we are only going in circles here though. I wish to play with everyone when given the opportunity. I truly wish everyone felt the same way, but that's not likely to happen.

 

Why would I want to play with everyone? There's plenty of people I won't choose to play with, and that's fine with me.

 

And some people, I might enjoy some things with, but not others.

 

Works fine for me.

 

My most important personal point to not allowing mods at all and not introducing a shareable parser to the game is actually very simple; I wish that the people who feel the need for them would become frustrated in the end and quit for some other game that suits their needs better. That's very selfish but I think that I would enjoy the game more without such people. However, I do not force this on others nor do I wish for anyone to think the same way. But you have to give some room for other opinions than yours too, you know?

 

But you are wanting to force something on others, so...no, you aren't giving room for other opinions. You're doing your best to drive others away. That's what you just said.

[Sharn-]

I dont really care, I really dont think recount and UI mods hurt the game at all. Its the boss mods and mods that monitor your cooldown and tell you when to use abilities that make MMO's design bosses like Yogg that are just completely not fun and a chore.

[Colobulous]

So you basically want to give the "jerks" more tools to abuse?

 

Jerks abuse with or without tools.

[Kazter]

I didn't even bother reading the thread, but this is a tired (albeit necessary) discussion. I totally agree that we need a GOOD damage meter. I have always been an avid "minmaxer" and the greatest tool we can have is a damage meter.

[Intrepid]

Recount or anything similar is not needed. The game is not designed around such tools.

[djst]

 

Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

 

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

 

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

 

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

 

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

 

With Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.

 

 

Without Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)

-

EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

 

EDIT UPDATE:

-

During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

 

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!

 

I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly.

 

No . Why ? This isn't wow . When it comes to end game content you can tell if someone isn't pulling their wait . I only started using damage meters in wow in wotlk and mostly to help my game . I just hate wow kiddies flash dps meters in a raid or dunegon purley for ego when dmg meters dont take into account you saving there *** when they pull agro from over dpsing .

[McVade]

Pros and cons. Lots of pros and cons. For every reason I see to have a version of Recount in game, I see one not to have it.

 

Whichever way it goes, I won't shed a tear.

[MortisMortavius]

Absolutely!

 

Anyone who doesn't want any sort of meter at all (in or out of game) might as well be mashing buttons because they'll never know how well they are performing.

[rkopczak]

no

 

/thread

[MortisMortavius]

I will simplify the question:

 

Do you want to know how well you are performing so that you can improve or not?

[Sernon]

And excluding it wouldn't have the same impact? Besides, why do you think the game wouldn't be built with intentional consideration for combat performance?

 

If anything, I'd rather people stop trying to kid themselves over it.

 

Combat performance is linked to adaption and a will to improve, not tool dependencies. And the impact of not making a recount into an official feature, comes with someone making a program to let you use it in the background instead. Like has always been done.

 

I don't see that as a problematic process, since it works for any other MMO I have played. This thread is the unnatural one, all things considered. For it wants to place a secondary feature up there with primary functions, and promote dependencies that shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

...

[CorvusKahn]

I will simplify the question:

 

Do you want to know how well you are performing so that you can improve or not?

 

No.

[Amanda_C]

So you basically want to give the "jerks" more tools to abuse?

 

Why not make all of the servers PvP too? That way we can get abused no matter what we do. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

 

The point is that "jerks" will abuse any tool, even chat channels. Is that a good reason to exclude a good tool, like Recount?

[MortisMortavius]

No.

 

Perfectly reasonable, not everyone does...

 

Next question:

 

Do you think those people who do want said feature should not have it just because you don't want it?

[ViridianFox]

Honestly I don't know. I'm very torn about the whole thing. On one hand I can understand why bioware doesn't want to add addons to the game. But I think if they implemented their own version I wouldn't mind too much.

[smitysmit]

Recount is an addon i like to use in WoW to get an idea of my own DPS and if its improving or not as i get new gear. I'd never use it as a reason to kick someone from a party, but thats just me. So i wouldnt mind ToR having an equivalent system available.

 

Just as long as we never see an appearance of a ToR frickin' Gearscore. That add-on was the bane of WoW for too long. It let *******es get away with being rude, it made the game lag more as it wasted bandwidth transmitting. Just ugh.

i hated gear score but now its i level lmao.

[CorvusKahn]

Perfectly reasonable, not everyone does...

 

Next question:

 

Do you think those people who do want said feature should not have it just because you don't want it?

 

Yes.