Marauders....

[-Fal-]

Carnage because the run speed increase from predation is the single most amazing thing in the game!

[aRtFuL]

Annihilation is probably overall the best against good players. Carnage is definitely the best against the average player you'll run into in a warzone though.

 

Which honestly is enough for me to give Carnage the nod actually, at least in terms of "how quickly can I win WZs and get comms".

 

You actually get less badges as carnage because carnage is such a single target spec. Doesn't matter if you do more damage than the next guy. You just can't get some of the badges Anni can get.

 

Carnage is actually best in huttball on defense and assist offense. Because:

1. You don't get focused most times

2. Your predation is damn fast, and your force camo is a snare escape so if your opps snares you from trying to get to the ballholder, they can't.

3. Your 2 roots are absolute killers in defense. So many times in huttball where I stopped the opposing team right before the last ramp or even just before the goal line and kill them, and having the opps yell at you for being a "fxxxing carnage" is the best complement of being carnage spec, imo.

 

I feel as if carnage is a fair bit more gear dependent than anni though, which is probably another thing to consider.

[VictorLototskyy]

1. You don't get focused most times

If you're good marauder against good team - there would be big mark over you all the time telling everyone 'kill this bastard'.

2. Your predation is damn fast, and your force camo is a snare escape so if your opps snares you from trying to get to the ballholder, they can't.

Predation, yes, one of the biggest advanteges. Camo? I find 6 seconds with improved speed much more usefull than snares off.

3. Your 2 roots are absolute killers in defense. So many times in huttball where I stopped the opposing team right before the last ramp or even just before the goal line and kill them, and having the opps yell at you for being a "fxxxing carnage" is the best complement of being carnage spec, imo.

Roots are usefull at hutball, but it's not that breaking deal advantage. You still have choke, roar, charge. After playing both specs for a pretty long time, I find 'sitting on target' much easier with rupture root and 1m charge rather then carnage roots.

 

It looks like most of the commenters here are theorycrafting and didn't reach that level of skill at pvp when they can start giving advices which is a bit sad. If you're good player and enemies know your capabilies, it's much more harder to be usefull (especially 1v1/1v2) with carnage rather than annihilation. Enemies know what you can do, they stun/push after gore in 8/10 cases. It's like you wait for assasins CD's to kill him or interrupt a right heal at operative to break his chain.

 

You may say that warzones are 8x8, but reality shows that it's still 1v1/1v2/2v3 etc mini fights most of the times, when you can just do more with Annihilation.

 

I'm not saying that Carnage is bad, it's good and it's fun to play, but Annihilation just better at the moment.

[aRtFuL]

If you're good marauder against good team - there would be big mark over you all the time telling everyone 'kill this bastard'.

 

Note that I was only talking about huttball - most times teams in huttball focuses on getting the ball moving and keeping the ball carrier alive and moving/passing. They generally don't waste time to pay attention to individuals.

 

All other wz of course, you pretty much get focused from the getgo. Which is why I usually don't jump head first into a fight (or jump head first and use force camo offensively - jump and disappear right away to confuse).

 

Predation, yes, one of the biggest advanteges. Camo? I find 6 seconds with improved speed much more usefull than snares off.

 

Again, only in reference to huttball. Other wzs I will not waste camo like that.

 

Roots are usefull at hutball, but it's not that breaking deal advantage. You still have choke, roar, charge. After playing both specs for a pretty long time, I find 'sitting on target' much easier with rupture root and 1m charge rather then carnage roots.

 

Roots are actually superior in huttball because it is not affected by the resolve. All the other methods you mention builds or affected by resolve, which is not a good thing (especially since a ball carrier usually pretty much have full resolve bar by the time they get to the last ramp).

 

There are so many times that I see carnage's 2 roots ruined the opps game when the carny mara is on defense.

 

Again, all these is just in reference to huttball, which I've mentioned specifically, and somehow this point still seems to be missed in replies.

 

Also, I personally found that comments such as below:

 

It looks like most of the commenters here are theorycrafting and didn't reach that level of skill at pvp when they can start giving advices which is a bit sad.

 

Only makes one's comment LESS valid because really, this is a forum, hardly anyone here knows or even played against each other; we don't know where each other "skill level" is at. All you can see is their personal opinion. Now you might agree or disagree with it, but it doesn't necessarily reflects how they actually plays. Their opinion isn't necessarily inferior just because you don't agree with it.

 

I'm sure a decent player can make any classes/specs work, if your goal is not solely wz comms/badges/damage dealt. Usefulness is not always reflected in the scores, rooting and snaring people and allowing you teammates to catch up on them is not reflected in the scores at all. There are so many factors to consider, thus the simplistic view that it is possible to see one's "skill" from forum comments is a big fallacy.

Edited May 23, 2012 by aRtFuL

[UGLYMRJ]

I'm seeing the good and bad... I respec'd just to finally see for myself. I loved Carnage and heads up it's a beastly skill tree. The roots are really helpful and the big hits are great for taking down enemies quick. The one thing I miss about Carnage most is the rotations... I can get kills with carnage with my eyes closed and I feel like Annihilation is more of an adjust to game kind of tree. Which I have to say is a good thing. I am far less predictable and even better than that... when targeted by multiple ppl I can survive A LOT longer. I miss having the roots but with the shorter charge CD and a better camo... closing the gap isn't a problem at all. I liked Carnage with a lot of healers on my back but for over all DPS and survivability... Now that I have seen both sides I prefer Annihilation. Not a huge change in WZ stats... still in top 5 for DPS normally only now I get some side heals and I feel like I stand a better chance now when outnumbered. Edited May 23, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Daemos]

For me personally I have found that in PvP situations Annihilation works best. I normally PvP solo, so I have no back up, but when I do find a healer and I run as Annihilation I am unstoppable. It takes 4 people attacking me at once or one REALLY well geared and well played Maurader to take me down. The guy hits like a truck. 3 seconds and your dead, no matter who you are. Anyways I digress...

 

In PvE however I have found that I do far more damage and bring much more utility to the raid as Carnage. Case and point is Heavy Fabricator on Hard Mode. We ran with me as Annihilation spec, and took him to 5% before he enraged. Then I respec'd and we ran it again with the exact same people doing the exact same thing, and never hit his enrage timer. The only difference was my spec. The reason for this is that Carnage is much more burst damage and so on most of the end game fights where you need that fast burst, it will out perform Annihilation. Overall damage on a boss that just stands there and takes your hits will probably go to Annihilation, but there are almost no fights in the game like that. Most require you to do something, then switch over and take care of something else, then back to the boss and pour as much damage as possible into them and then go back to the other stuff. With Annihilation the dots continue to tick but the damage is much less than the burst you get from Carnage.... Plus with Carnage you are constantly getting Berserk up which adds to your Massacre spam which just pushes your damage thru the roof.

 

TLDR: PVP Annihilation is better when solo. PVE Carnage is better due to boss mechanics and huge burst.

[UGLYMRJ]

For me personally I have found that in PvP situations Annihilation works best. I normally PvP solo, so I have no back up, but when I do find a healer and I run as Annihilation I am unstoppable. It takes 4 people attacking me at once or one REALLY well geared and well played Maurader to take me down. The guy hits like a truck. 3 seconds and your dead, no matter who you are. Anyways I digress...

 

In PvE however I have found that I do far more damage and bring much more utility to the raid as Carnage. Case and point is Heavy Fabricator on Hard Mode. We ran with me as Annihilation spec, and took him to 5% before he enraged. Then I respec'd and we ran it again with the exact same people doing the exact same thing, and never hit his enrage timer. The only difference was my spec. The reason for this is that Carnage is much more burst damage and so on most of the end game fights where you need that fast burst, it will out perform Annihilation. Overall damage on a boss that just stands there and takes your hits will probably go to Annihilation, but there are almost no fights in the game like that. Most require you to do something, then switch over and take care of something else, then back to the boss and pour as much damage as possible into them and then go back to the other stuff. With Annihilation the dots continue to tick but the damage is much less than the burst you get from Carnage.... Plus with Carnage you are constantly getting Berserk up which adds to your Massacre spam which just pushes your damage thru the roof.

 

TLDR: PVP Annihilation is better when solo. PVE Carnage is better due to boss mechanics and huge burst.

+1 on all of the above

 

Also I notice, even tho on paper Carnage should do more DPS over all... with shield/absorb etc in PvP I notice that Annihilation usually will put up higher numbers. I assume simply to the fact that my screams and parts of ravage often seem to get soaked up even with adrenals and relics popped.

[Lady_Alyria]

I started Anni for PvE and thought I was godly, specially with a heal pet. Got into PvP and died like a floppy fish every 10 seconds. Switched to Rage and now I'm less of an embarrassment in PvP, but really I think I just suck at playing a Marauder. I have a merc, sorc, and op that easily do well in PvP, the only other time I struggled this hard is on my slinger all while people are crying maras need to be nerfed for being overpowered, where is all this bloody power? I could use it.

[UGLYMRJ]

I started Anni for PvE and thought I was godly, specially with a heal pet. Got into PvP and died like a floppy fish every 10 seconds. Switched to Rage and now I'm less of an embarrassment in PvP, but really I think I just suck at playing a Marauder. I have a merc, sorc, and op that easily do well in PvP, the only other time I struggled this hard is on my slinger all while people are crying maras need to be nerfed for being overpowered, where is all this bloody power? I could use it.

 

I've only played 2 classes so far... and my first being a Marauder. So what I'm told is they're one of the more complicated classes to play 'well'. Of course everyone will tell you they're the best, but from experience and consistently putting up good numbers and seeing some of my guildies putting up some beastly numbers themselves. (Guildies also being where I got the info from and the guy who said it is a BEAST at any class) Anyways, what I was getting at is there is more involved and I know from previously running carnage spec and now annihilation... timing is EVERYTHING. Knowing when and how to use abilities... especially without a stun and 0 KB's. It is def a unique style of play... you have to know what to use and when. Ravage for instance on carnage is A LOT more effective after gore... a smart player would save it until a gore CD is done. Most don't. At the same time ravage in annihilation spec should be used as filler and not a primary... most don't do that either. each spec is so much different from the other and then the class itself playing so uniquely changes the game a lot. Do not play a marauder with the same mentality you would your other characters. You have tools... they're just not the ones you're used to.

[Daemos]

I've only played 2 classes so far... and my first being a Marauder. So what I'm told is they're one of the more complicated classes to play 'well'. Of course everyone will tell you they're the best, but from experience and consistently putting up good numbers and seeing some of my guildies putting up some beastly numbers themselves. (Guildies also being where I got the info from and the guy who said it is a BEAST at any class) Anyways, what I was getting at is there is more involved and I know from previously running carnage spec and now annihilation... timing is EVERYTHING. Knowing when and how to use abilities... especially without a stun and 0 KB's. It is def a unique style of play... you have to know what to use and when. Ravage for instance on carnage is A LOT more effective after gore... a smart player would save it until a gore CD is done. Most don't. At the same time ravage in annihilation spec should be used as filler and not a primary... most don't do that either. each spec is so much different from the other and then the class itself playing so uniquely changes the game a lot. Do not play a marauder with the same mentality you would your other characters. You have tools... they're just not the ones you're used to.

 

You are absolutely right. There is a huge difference between playing a class and playing it well. I have seen MANY Marauders who play their class ok, but they will NEVER top damage, I have also seen this is other classes as well. A key example in our guild is we have one Assassin who destroys damage, I mean the guy is up there just wrecking things. When we made the mistake of putting him and myself on one of the Tanks in Denova we had ours to 15% while the other was still at 35%. And that was with us stopping dps so the other tank could catch up. Obviously a stupid mistake and it was my fault since I was leading the raid. That said we then turned around and put him and I on different tanks and destoryed it. Anyways, his damage is amazing. We also have another Assassin in the guild who.... how to say this nicely..... Should delete his character and unistall the game. The guy is nice enough but he just has no idea how to play his class. We wiped in EV normal mode a few months back on the duel of the fates encounter. Now anyone who has done this will tell you that the fight is a joke. Its a 1v1 fight between you and someone else. 8 bosses, 8 people, and if you hit someone elses boss you do 0 damage the rest of the fight. If you heal someone else you do 0 healing or damage for the rest of the fight. So its just a 1v1 fight. That said this guy couldnt kill his target. When we asked him what his problem was he said and I quote "I cant backstab the target so I cant do any damage." This is a key example of a bad player.

 

Sadly there are many like them. But there are also really good players. And a good player will always be able to do things that the normal players will look at and say "He's overpowered, he needs to be nerfed." That isnt true, it just means that he is a better player who knows how to utilize all of his skills.

 

TLDR: Good players make the class look overpowered, bad players make the class look underpowered.

[Lady_Alyria]

I've only played 2 classes so far... and my first being a Marauder. So what I'm told is they're one of the more complicated classes to play 'well'. Of course everyone will tell you they're the best, but from experience and consistently putting up good numbers and seeing some of my guildies putting up some beastly numbers themselves. (Guildies also being where I got the info from and the guy who said it is a BEAST at any class) Anyways, what I was getting at is there is more involved and I know from previously running carnage spec and now annihilation... timing is EVERYTHING. Knowing when and how to use abilities... especially without a stun and 0 KB's. It is def a unique style of play... you have to know what to use and when. Ravage for instance on carnage is A LOT more effective after gore... a smart player would save it until a gore CD is done. Most don't. At the same time ravage in annihilation spec should be used as filler and not a primary... most don't do that either. each spec is so much different from the other and then the class itself playing so uniquely changes the game a lot. Do not play a marauder with the same mentality you would your other characters. You have tools... they're just not the ones you're used to.

 

LOL, I don't just faceroll the keyboard, I do read the powers, see how they work together and figure out my rotation accordingly. Both my merc and sorc have dps based on paying attention to when procs go off. I would say my issue is gap closing, I seem far better at creating gaps than closing them, which is probably why the Rage tree makes me suck less I get a second gap closer. I think another problem is I'm used to looking down, at cool downs and procs, a mara has to pay far more attention to whats going on around them in pvp than ranged do, which would also explain why I was mighty mighty in pve and suck horrifically in pvp, Mobs have the common decency to stay where I left them. I would say that I'll get better with practice, but I doubt it, it seems too far from what I'm used to for me to do well at it.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Lady_Alyria

[UGLYMRJ]

So its just a 1v1 fight. That said this guy couldnt kill his target. When we asked him what his problem was he said and I quote "I cant backstab the target so I cant do any damage." This is a key example of a bad player.

 

 

TLDR: Good players make the class look overpowered, bad players make the class look underpowered.

 

I know the fight... and I LOL'd HARD ! Such a cake fight but I hear ya... I've dueled Marauders when I was still in recruit and they were full BM... and then laughed when they're like ***? How are you still at 60% HP. LOL! But yeah... anyone who can't do that fight with ease... or ANY elite fight... which I also hear ppl complain about should do some homework. If you're playing your class well you should be able to 1v1 an elite heads up... up to at least 3 levels above you.

[UGLYMRJ]

LOL, I don't just faceroll the keyboard, I do read the powers, see how they work together and figure out my rotation accordingly. Both my merc and sorc have dps based on paying attention to when procs go off. I would say my issue is gap closing, I seem far better at creating gaps than closing them, which is probably why the Rage tree makes me suck less I get a second gap closer. I think another problem is I'm used to looking down, at cool downs and procs, a mara has to pay far more attention to whats going on around them in pvp than ranged do, which would also explain why I was mighty mighty in pve and suck horrifically in pvp, Mobs have the common decency to stay where I left them. I would say that I'll get better with practice, but I doubt it, it seems too far from what I'm used to for me to do well at it.

LOL @ faceroll... another thing people don't think about with marauder and you MAY have the same problem especially being used to playing ranged chars. Most use cloak to escape but it can also be used as a gap closer. If you are still having problems spec annihilation and you get some shorter cooldowns with force charge making it even easier to keep that gap tight.

[Lady_Alyria]

LOL @ faceroll... another thing people don't think about with marauder and you MAY have the same problem especially being used to playing ranged chars. Most use cloak to escape but it can also be used as a gap closer. If you are still having problems spec annihilation and you get some shorter cooldowns with force charge making it even easier to keep that gap tight.

 

That's how this started, I was specced Anni but with the constitution of wet tissue paper I didn't live long enough to drop that massive damage.

[UGLYMRJ]

With the baby self heals that come with annihilation you should be living longer. Depending on level but i would roll rage/carnage until level 40 and then respec to annihilation.

[Lady_Alyria]

With the baby self heals that come with annihilation you should be living longer. Depending on level but i would roll rage/carnage until level 40 and then respec to annihilation.

 

Yeah, I'm only 25 on my mara, and I do see the merits of anni. Berserk popping every 30 seconds, etc. But I was so busy fish flopping and dying horribly I usually died before I could get my first Berserk off which shows how utterly useless I was, I am not used to ranking last in pvp.

[bassfu]

Carnage

 

1. Everyone else is pretty much Anhilation/calling for its nerf

2. The roots

3. I liked the name of the tree.

4. Kills in 4-5 globals.

5char

[UGLYMRJ]

Yeah, I'm only 25 on my mara, and I do see the merits of anni. Berserk popping every 30 seconds, etc. But I was so busy fish flopping and dying horribly I usually died before I could get my first Berserk off which shows how utterly useless I was, I am not used to ranking last in pvp.

 

I would stick with it... once you figure it out it's a great class and fun class. Search 'annihilation' on the forum and the first thread that pops up should be a good annihilation guide. Give you something to start with and then make it your own over time.

[Lady_Alyria]

I would stick with it... once you figure it out it's a great class and fun class. Search 'annihilation' on the forum and the first thread that pops up should be a good annihilation guide. Give you something to start with and then make it your own over time.

 

I did, I watched this video of a annihilation mara, he showed you what to push, when to push it. It just didn't work for me. Rage works better, I'm not at par with my other characters in pvp but I'm a lot closer than I was with anni.

[Daemos]

I have heard a lot of people say that Annihilation is the way to go for leveling. For me personally I couldnt stand it. I died all the time, hit like a wet noodle, and felt completely weak. So I switched to Carnage for lvling and once again felt like an unstoppable killing machine. IMO in pre 50 pvp Carnage is better than Annihilation. You dont get your highest burst attack in Annihilation till you are 41 anyways. Where as with Carnage you can jump in, gore, ravage, and force scream all at relatively low lvls and do massive damage. The only thing you get new in Carnage at 41 is that you replace your slash attack, dont remember the actual name, with Massacre.

 

Honestly tho, the class has been pretty well balanced. I cant speak for Rage because I really do not enjoy the play style and so havent played it much at all.... That said I believe that the differences in the survivability, damage, and overall effectiveness of the class are so negligible that whatever playstyle you have and whichever Skill tree you are most comfortable with will be the best for you.

[Animaras]

I have heard a lot of people say that Annihilation is the way to go for leveling. For me personally I couldnt stand it. I died all the time, hit like a wet noodle, and felt completely weak. So I switched to Carnage for lvling and once again felt like an unstoppable killing machine. IMO in pre 50 pvp Carnage is better than Annihilation. You dont get your highest burst attack in Annihilation till you are 41 anyways. Where as with Carnage you can jump in, gore, ravage, and force scream all at relatively low lvls and do massive damage. The only thing you get new in Carnage at 41 is that you replace your slash attack, dont remember the actual name, with Massacre.

 

Honestly tho, the class has been pretty well balanced. I cant speak for Rage because I really do not enjoy the play style and so havent played it much at all.... That said I believe that the differences in the survivability, damage, and overall effectiveness of the class are so negligible that whatever playstyle you have and whichever Skill tree you are most comfortable with will be the best for you.

 

This ^ It's not an argument of which spec is the best, but which spec fits YOUR play style. Being comfortable in your skills/spec makes for smoother PvP action and better execution of skills and rotations. If you're stumbling a lot, going "Ahhh, should've done this..." Then maybe a different spec will benefit you more so than originally thought.