Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I also want to mention that I'm sure the LFG tool will add value. While I have nothing against it, it's just not a feature whose lack has impacted me in a great way. I dont think it in itself has had a very big part in the reason why people left this game, but if you combine it with all of the other modern mmo features that they left out and/or said they were not going to add they had a very large impact on people leaving this game, by making it that much harder to find groups to do flashpoints and heroics at 50 and while leveling. People can say mmo players have become lazy and i agree, but if you force people to participate in pointless time sinks that add nothing to their game experience except negativity, then they are going to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowAxx Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Personally, I unsubscribed from the game with the release of patch 1.2. I have 30+ days before my playtime expires, maybe a bit more if the free 30 days kicks in after that. I have a number of things which must be fixed/released before I will spend another $.01 on this game and Dual Spec is one of them. Given the drop in server population and the difficulty if building raid groups, Dual Spec is absolutely needed as part of the solution. Also, I should not have to spend an increasingly higher respec cost in order to help my primary character fill a needed role within a raid group. So, Bioware can do whatever it wants, but if they want any more $$$ from me, they have some work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Well, I'll be a devil's advocate against my own thread. It will make people stick to a smaller group of people more since they can more efficiently fill roles, instead of venturing out meeting a larger pool of individuals (my current method). LOL, i appreciate it. We can just by pass the current arguement that mmos sense of community does not exist anymore out side of guilds since community is what it is to alot of different people and i dont want to argue about that here. And your arguement is a good one, and probably what the devs had in mind along with trying to get more people to roll alts. But while it does make people look for other people outside of their group to find a new person to fill a role. More often it leaves someone from that group out who cannot fill a role or even worse the whole group logs off disapointed that they could not find someone to fill their group. Dual specs have worked really well in games like wow and Rift, while not totaly removing the need for people to look outside their group for others to fill roles, Lets face it, the people that feel comfortable being a healer or a tank are alot less common than dps. With dual roles you give those people who do feel comfortable doing both to do just that and help fill groups and help the game a better experience for more people. Dual specs also help what you mentioned, if you have 7 people wanting to run EV and you can only find a dps, well then someone in your raid can switch to heals or tank and the raid can continue. Edited May 18, 2012 by Mallorik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fhrosty Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I really believe that this attitude is the single biggest reason that this game is in the state it is now. Unfortunately, it's not developer arrogance. It's the rich, pushy sponsors pressuring the sales team for unreasonable dates while the game is still being built, because "the sooner the better" for them, then the sales team pressuring the dev supervisors for dates until the devs finally reluctantly give a modest date range, then the sales team cherry-picks and sugarcoats to come up with a best-case half-truth to feed back to the sponsors to keep them from pulling out. Meanwhile the devs run into additional challenges and problems along the way that delay the coding. Then the sponsors decide, "if you can make the 30th, then you can push harder and make the 25th", so they apply more pressure. Then the CEO agrees. Now the devs are expected to do more with less time, until the point comes where they have to sacrifice some features to get others working in time, and everyone ends up adopting Facebook's motto that "Done Is Better Than Perfect". And if the devs had the people skills to work the sales team and sponsors better and play the "game" to keep their workload at a reasonable level, then they wouldn't be devs; they'd be managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Unfortunately, it's not developer arrogance. It's the rich, pushy sponsors pressuring the sales team for unreasonable dates while the game is still being built, because "the sooner the better" for them, then the sales team pressuring the dev supervisors for dates until the devs finally reluctantly give a modest date range, then the sales team cherry-picks and sugarcoats to come up with a best-case half-truth to feed back to the sponsors to keep them from pulling out. Meanwhile the devs run into additional challenges and problems along the way that delay the coding. Then the sponsors decide, "if you can make the 30th, then you can push harder and make the 25th", so they apply more pressure. Then the CEO agrees. Now the devs are expected to do more with less time, until the point comes where they have to sacrifice some features to get others working in time, and everyone ends up adopting Facebook's motto that "Done Is Better Than Perfect". And if the devs had the people skills to work the sales team and sponsors better and play the "game" to keep their workload at a reasonable level, then they wouldn't be devs; they'd be managers. My disapointment with the developers isnt that they didnt have all of these things at release. Its that even after release they refused to embrace these new features. things like cross server lfg tools, The last time we heard anything from devs on that subject, they were against it, that to me is either arrogance or just plain ignorance. And a combat window is not some technical nightmare that they needed time to add to the game, it was probably more of a problem to exclude them from the game that it would have been to add them. That to me was just the first sign that these devs didnt really know what they were getting into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 IM all for dual-specs but only for the fact itll help with the grouping problem we have in the game. With dual specs, we'll have many more tanks and healers ready to go to fill a need. Otherwise I couldnt care less, as much I hate being forced to play a pet class, they do improve the efficiency of leveling with healers and/or tanks to where I actually dont mind leveling as one. Still, since this (1.3) IS going to be the patch for grouping improvements ... dual spec should really be in it. Even if saving an entire configuration set (shortcuts, keybinds, etc) isnt ready on time, they should at least TRY to get the saved dual specs out by then so players can switch specs on the fly without having to pay or re-do the spec every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) the sales team pressuring the dev supervisors for dates until the devs finally reluctantly give a modest date range, then the sales team cherry-picks and sugarcoats to come up with a best-case half-truth to feed back to the sponsors to keep them from pulling out. ^^This happens in so many industries it's not funny. I've seen it more from a CS perspective but cleaning up sales messes are typically not what you would call fun. Apologies to any sales people but they often have a tendency to be pushy and can ask for unreasonable things quite often. They also often do not have qualms about throwing somebody like a dev or CS 'under the bus' or make empty promises to either save their own behind or to pad their commissions by making more sales. Guess who gets the heat when the customer is mad as hell?? If you guessed Customer Service that is 100 points for you!!! Ding ding ding!!!! Once again, apologies to any ethical sales people out there but I've experienced this first hand all too often... Edited May 18, 2012 by Monave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSarynn Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I'd also rather have a dual-spec feature than a LFG dungeon-finder feature. At the very least, until they actually release a dual-spec feature, they should remove the cost of respecs entirely. Right now I have to do dailies just to fund my respecs. It is getting to be very annoying and I only switch between two builds (for PvE and PvP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malynn Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I love this game, but I REALLY REALLY want dual spec. Of course, we'd need a gear switch ability with it. Please.... *makes puppy eyes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qonor Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Too lazy to quote many of the awesome posts above...but yeah, my guild has always had too many tanks...sucks to always have to ask one person to sit out when they're all cool people. I love this game, but I REALLY REALLY want dual spec. Of course, we'd need a gear switch ability with it. Please.... *makes puppy eyes* I really hope when people mention dual-specs, stuff like gear switching is automatic. Why do something half-assed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I swear, no one has any patience these days. I asked for it a month ago. What's taking them so long getting into the game? IIRC, WoW didn't have dual specs for two or three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qonor Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 I swear, no one has any patience these days. I asked for it a month ago. What's taking them so long getting into the game? IIRC, WoW didn't have dual specs for two or three years. Yes, but it's not fair to compare a 2004 MMO to a 2011 one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypsezero Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Dual spec is not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qonor Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Dual spec is not needed. A lot of things aren't needed. Doesn't mean people want them any less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdob Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I believe they are trying to address the largest concerns for the majority of the player base first. 1. Transfers 2. LFG 3. Ranked/World PVP 4. ? I don't know what else is on the list, but dual-spec is lower than those, I'm betting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I stay the same spec all the time. it's not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balrizangor Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I'd rather have this than the LFG tool. Then again, I have no issue finding people to group with. Maybe people have just adjusted and gotten used to creating new alts to fill different roles? But the community wanted LFG more. Also, they said Dual-Specs were coming, just later on. Why would they mention something that they have already said won't be in for a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parali Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Greetings, We know that many players in our community are eagerly awaiting dual spec. Lead Game Designer Daniel Erickson mentioned this feature in a recent Weekly Q&A: Lovarboy: Will we get dual spec with Game Update 1.3? Daniel: Unfortunately, no. Game Update 1.3 is being kept a bit leaner to get the Group Finder and the next stage of Legacy in the game as fast as possible. After that we’ll be returning to some bigger updates and we’re hoping dual spec makes it for the next one. We hope this gives a little more insight into when this feature will make it into the game. We thank you for your patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) I stay the same spec all the time. it's not needed. Ofcourse, because a few people wont or cant fill different roles its just better for the game to not allow it or make it alot harder for anyone else to do it and help people do the content that was made for them. Id really like to know what roles people prefer who are for or agaisnt dual specs. In my experience in wow it was the full time healers and tanks who were against dual specs and i dont really care about the opinion of someone who doesnt mind making the game less enjoyable for others just so they themselves have an easier time getting groups. I am primarily a tank, and i have a healer alt, but i switch to what we need and what would be best for the raid and i dont think its a good thing for a game to punish someone with a money sink to do that. Edited May 18, 2012 by Mallorik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelDranoel Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 So that people can do GROUP CONTENT as intended? Why should we travel all the fraking way to the fleet to respec, then walk to the ship, fly back to the planet where the group quests are to do it in another spec? No wonder why people hate this game. You are right, you should not have to switch but simply find a player who is already in that spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qonor Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Greetings, We know that many players in our community are eagerly awaiting dual spec. Lead Game Designer Daniel Erickson mentioned this feature in a recent Weekly Q&A: We hope this gives a little more insight into when this feature will make it into the game. We thank you for your patience! This helps, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) When I read this I thought either you're new to MMOs or well....I don't know because dual spec is kind of the norm. Many people also like to have a PvP and PvE spec if they do a lot of both. I know since there is not much to do at 50 you may wonder what's the point of having 2 specs when you have trouble doing anything with 1 spec but at least you'll make it easier to find groups when ready to fill two roles rather than one. It would make grouping and finding groups that much easier. LOL, Im FAR from new to MMORPGs (21 years and counting) and I dont see a need for dual spec either! Frankly from what Ive encountered in Rift and TOR when PUGing, most players could do ALLOT better if there was no dual spec and they actually learned and understood their classes and abilities! You are right, you should not have to switch but simply find a player who is already in that spec. Exactly A player that leveled his/her spec up, learned all there is to learn about it Mastered the single build Edited May 18, 2012 by Kalfear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vfrost Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 LOL, Im FAR from new to MMORPGs (21 years and counting) and I dont see a need for dual spec either! Frankly from what Ive encountered in Rift and TOR when PUGing, most players could do ALLOT better if there was no dual spec and they actually learned and understood their classes and abilities! Exactly A player that leveled his/her spec up, learned all there is to learn about it Mastered the single build Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qonor Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) LOL, Im FAR from new to MMORPGs (21 years and counting) and I dont see a need for dual spec either! Frankly from what Ive encountered in Rift and TOR when PUGing, most players could do ALLOT better if there was no dual spec and they actually learned and understood their classes and abilities! Exactly A player that leveled his/her spec up, learned all there is to learn about it Mastered the single build Your idea works flawlessly if everyone that you play with has matching schedules and is online at the same times. When they're not, there are group composition issues. Also, sometimes you just want to group with a particular person. So what's more important, the person or the class they play? The way around this is for everyone to have a couple of level 50 alts that are interchangeable, which is the way my guild has been moving when we do have group composition issues for operations. Edited May 18, 2012 by Qonor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mautics Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 the real reason that we don't have dual spec is the same reason as everything else, bioware has behaved like a very arrogant company with arrogant devs, art department, programmers, and marketing, believing that because they have been given the star wars ipo, it would "force" customers to play the game the way that they want us to play it. Now they seem "deer in the headlights" dumbfounded that their customers need to be sold a good product with good features that they want to pay for. ^ qft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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