BG will never be fair as long as

[RogueCody]

I"m Currently on a server where there is 2 guilds that run premade PvP groups and neither are looking for other members for pvp. (I've asked trust me)

 

When they run a group if your in a pug at the time you don't win. PERIOD.

 

Pugs can try to coordinate all they want on chat, but that still will not compare to the coordination of a premade not including there superior class composition (You ever joined a pug with no healer against a premade with one? One guess how it turns out.)

 

Yet again I love the idea of premades and think they're a great and needed thing for MMO games. But sadly the more this game dies and the more Bioware does nothing to fix it the more and more this will turn into a constant premade versus pug scenario.

Again, Premades are not the problem! It's the small population servers that have no choice to play against them over and over and over again. (More and more servers are becoming these every day)

 

I can only imagine the new people just getting to 50 in recruit gear trying to farm gear to be gaining only 40 to 50 Commendations a match as well as losing almost every single game.

 

Bet they're having fun......

[Gloga]

That is so false its funny and there are quite a few good players out there that do know there class well and probably more than Pre-made for the simple fact they don't depend on there buddy Ricky Bobby to heal them.

 

Most means that there are acceptions but they are not in the majority, which is so true that its not funny at all. There are a few puggers I would pick up for a premade. Most can't be bothered to look at chat and don't have a clue what they are doing.

[Tatebomb]

Do you know what most pre-mades talk about in voice while pvping?

- How bad YOU are

- Katy Perry's rack

- Random ********

 

Alot of the time pre-mades arent even IN voice-chat.

 

The fact of the matter is this, people who enjoy pre-mades are simply better at pvp. PUGS have always been bad in every online game since wolfenstein.

 

Also used for talking trash to the premade teammate that just screwed up.

[criminalheretic]

I don't need voice to coordinate with my team. I don't need voice to pick out the best kill order. I don't need voice to peel for my healer or ranged dps. I don't need voice to figure out what the enemy is doing. A team on voice does have an advantage, no doubt, because I can hit my push to talk button and say east instead of making these really really long chat enteries: East, West, center.

 

I would not mind a premade vs premade bracket in normal warzones AFTER they merge their servers. Banning them all together would make me hit the unsubscribe button faster then you can blink.

 

You may not be aware of this, but people in premades hate being around most pugers more then you hate being stuck against us. Most pugers, pug because they are so bad that no decent players will group with them. Most of us don't like to rofl stomp people who can barely hit the power button on their computer let alone be bothered to look up at their chat window for the plan or the incoming calls...or to call them. We want even fights, close matches. We don't want to be grouped with you and we don't want to be grouped against you.

 

And that is the problem, is that I think most premades "should" feel that way, but most don't. Most seem perfectly content to farm PuGs, and instead of doing so with a little dignity, they will spend half the match taunting with emotes or in gen chat.

 

Someone suggest premades only queue against premades = But then we might have to wait longer to play!

 

Someone suggests Premades queue solo to speed things up = But then we would have to play with strangers! This is an MMO!!!

 

Tell me elite teams would rather have some competition, I would say "I hope so."

 

Tell me they hate stomping PuGs as much as the PuGs hate being stomped? Ummm no. Because they are not open to any options that might limit their ability to stomp PuGs.

 

Why should an awesome premade group have to limit their fun just because of population limitations, or insufficient skill on the part of their opponents? Completely valid question without a clear 'morally right' answer.

 

You and your 6 uber elite PVP friends aren't wrong. But you being right just isnt good for the health of the game or the majority of the players.

[GRINnBARRETT]

Pug v premade has always been a source of contention between the two groups. Simply put: they are different play styles that warrant different queues. Hopefully this will arrive with cross-server queuing & rateds. From what I've read (and has yet to be changed by any BW statement), puggers who don't queue in rateds will still backfill premade matches.

 

Here's the rub: MMOs are designed to be played in groups, therefore queue design is always going to favor this set up. You can't do away with premades if you want to be viewed seriously. However, there are more puggers than premaders (probably many more). Therefore, pvp design should allow for both player types.

 

IMO BW should worry less about making rateds the center of the pvp universe & more about getting & keeping subs. You can't fill 8v8 man queues if people have left the game in droves. I think we're in for a big shock when rateds get implemented, but premaders face very long queues. There simply aren't as many premades as people think. Not enough to maintain an entirely separate queue. So expect to get backfilled into their matches unless you queue solo rated.

 

Then again there's always GW2. Serious premaders will queue in the competitive brackets. People who casually group for fun or enjoy rolfstomping pugs will queue for WvWvW. In WvWvW, they'll be so many people running around it won't matter if they're in premades or not.

 

And if that fails, there's always FPS games.

Edited May 17, 2012 by GRINnBARRETT

[Asturias]

I"m Currently on a server where there is 2 guilds that run premade PvP groups and neither are looking for other members for pvp. (I've asked trust me)

 

When they run a group if your in a pug at the time you don't win. PERIOD.

 

Pugs can try to coordinate all they want on chat, but that still will not compare to the coordination of a premade not including there superior class composition (You ever joined a pug with no healer against a premade with one? One guess how it turns out.)

 

Yet again I love the idea of premades and think they're a great and needed thing for MMO games. But sadly the more this game dies and the more Bioware does nothing to fix it the more and more this will turn into a constant premade versus pug scenario.

Again, Premades are not the problem! It's the small population servers that have no choice to play against them over and over and over again. (More and more servers are becoming these every day)

 

I can only imagine the new people just getting to 50 in recruit gear trying to farm gear to be gaining only 40 to 50 Commendations a match as well as losing almost every single game.

 

Bet they're having fun......

 

And Pre-made cause that problem, people will not join matches if they are constintly getting stomped by a Pre-made group so I say for a incentive lets change matches and the daily rewards and see if this increases que times.

 

Also if your on a low pop server and there are people who only do Pre-made matches and you solo que. You will be put on the back buner of the list for a match. The system will automatically take a pre-made group vs a single player who has been waiting longer than a Pre-made.

[evilxpoptart]

This may or may not come as a shock to everyone but, it's possible now with modern day science to get into an established guild that does pvp and also meanwhile make freinds who have a mic.

[Gloga]

And that is the problem, is that I think most premades "should" feel that way, but most don't. Most seem perfectly content to farm PuGs, and instead of doing so with a little dignity, they will spend half the match taunting with emotes or in gen chat.

 

Someone suggest premades only queue against premades = But then we might have to wait longer to play!

 

Someone suggests Premades queue solo to speed things up = But then we would have to play with strangers! This is an MMO!!!

 

Tell me elite teams would rather have some competition, I would say "I hope so."

 

Tell me they hate stomping PuGs as much as the PuGs hate being stomped? Ummm no. Because they are not open to any options that might limit their ability to stomp PuGs.

 

Why should an awesome premade group have to limit their fun just because of population limitations, or insufficient skill on the part of their opponents? Completely valid question without a clear 'morally right' answer.

 

You and your 6 uber elite PVP friends aren't wrong. But you being right just isnt good for the health of the game or the majority of the players.

 

Here's the issue with the two options you give:

 

First in reguards to premade vs premade. On my server there are two guilds that play full premades constantly. They also play at different times of the day, making it so that we don't just have to wait longer to play: we will NEVER play. I am more then open to premade vs premade queues once they fix the population. If they do it before they fix it I'll unsub and never look back.

 

Second: solo queueing. I do solo queue quite often when there aren't many people on in guild, I often give up my spot to another guildy if we have an odd man out. However, never in a million years will I play a game that is pure solo queuing. The frustration is almost enough to make me quit in about 50% of the games I pug. I give a solid plan, no one disputes it...and then they do the complete opposite. Most don't even have recruit gear and charge into 1v1 situations with warheros. When I premade I know at least 3 other people on my team know what they are doing. If I am solo queuing, a lot of the time I have try and herd at least 3 mules, 2 others are running around in level 30 crafted gear, and the final 2 are /sitting on the left turret.

 

Are there teams that get off on roflstomping people who stand no chance: yes I won't argue that. However I think that most teams want even matches and the ones that don't are the vocal minority. Do normal premade groups who are fed up of going against trash teams hate it more: I'd say yes, because those pugers have an option of grouping which they chose not to do then continue to queue up.

 

To your final statement: You take out the option to premade, everyone who pvps in premades quits. That is not healthy for the game. Less grouping = less community (which basically means none at this point) = those of us who only stay around now because of friends leave. Without the premaders on my server: raids die, flashpoints die, all end game content dies. Which option is more healthy for the majority of players?

[Asturias]

Here's the issue with the two options you give:

 

First in reguards to premade vs premade. On my server there are two guilds that play full premades constantly. They also play at different times of the day, making it so that we don't just have to wait longer to play: we will NEVER play. I am more then open to premade vs premade queues once they fix the population. If they do it before they fix it I'll unsub and never look back.

 

Second: solo queueing. I do solo queue quite often when there aren't many people on in guild, I often give up my spot to another guildy if we have an odd man out. However, never in a million years will I play a game that is pure solo queuing. The frustration is almost enough to make me quit in about 50% of the games I pug. I give a solid plan, no one disputes it...and then they do the complete opposite. Most don't even have recruit gear and charge into 1v1 situations with warheros. When I premade I know at least 3 other people on my team know what they are doing. If I am solo queuing, a lot of the time I have try and herd at least 3 mules, 2 others are running around in level 30 crafted gear, and the final 2 are /sitting on the left turret.

 

Are there teams that get off on roflstomping people who stand no chance: yes I won't argue that. However I think that most teams want even matches and the ones that don't are the vocal minority. Do normal premade groups who are fed up of going against trash teams hate it more: I'd say yes, because those pugers have an option of grouping which they chose not to do then continue to queue up.

 

To your final statement: You take out the option to premade, everyone who pvps in premades quits. That is not healthy for the game. Less grouping = less community (which basically means none at this point) = those of us who only stay around now because of friends leave. Without the premaders on my server: raids die, flashpoints die, all end game content dies. Which option is more healthy for the majority of players?

 

That is false because this is a gear progression game and most PvP player like compitition, loot and Pre-made don't bring that to the table unless its Pre-made vs Pre-made like Rank warzones/Battle Grounds. Solo queing is not un-sociable by any nature, matter of fact its more sociable to solo que because the definition of being sociable is inclined to seek or enjoy companionship of others. Most Pre-made groups are anti to let anyone into there group.

 

There is a huge difference between PvP queing and PVE grouping.

[RogueCody]

This may or may not come as a shock to everyone but, it's possible now with modern day science to get into an established guild that does pvp and also meanwhile make freinds who have a mic.

 

Bet it's nice to be on a server that gives you that option.

 

As it stands now if I were to break my leg on the imperial fleet I would die before someone would notice and rescue me.

 

But keep talking about your new modern day science sport. I'd love to hear more.

[beyondkilling]

you can do it too....

[Pestis]

Must be a lot of bad players on your server. Come to Dark Repear. On this server complete PUG groups can roll even the best pre-made teams. Why is that you ask? Because the players on this server actually know how to PvP and understand how to win the WZs. All they use is the OPS channel to communicate. Simple statements like 3 snow, 5 left and such are just enough for these players to win.

 

Having a voice server does not always help a pre-made team because players will call out incs on the voice server and not in the OPS channel. I can't tell you how many times I have seen this cause a turret, bunker or door to get taken.

 

So my advice is L2P. Then you will be able to organize a bunch of pugs and beat pre-mades.

 

Pestis lvl 50 Pyro BH

[Gloga]

That is false because this is a gear progression game and most PvP player like compitition, loot and Pre-made don't bring that to the table unless its Pre-made vs Pre-made like Rank warzones/Battle Grounds. Solo queing is not un-sociable by any nature, matter of fact its more sociable to solo que because the definition of being sociable is inclined to seek or enjoy companionship of others. Most Pre-made groups are anti to let anyone into there group.

 

There is a huge difference between PvP queing and PVE grouping.

 

Yes there is a huge difference between pvp queing an pve grouping....but on my server the people who play more then 4 hours a week to raid are the ones who pvp and raid on the side, or Raid and pvp on the side. You take away premade pvp groups and those players will quit leaving the server deserted other then 4 hours a week where all it takes is one person to quit the raid group and the entire group falls apart because they can't find any replacements.

 

I am not saying that Solo queuing is anti social, and pre-made groups not against letting people join their groups. They are against letting bad players into their groups which lowers their effectiveness. If all there is, is solo queue you will see anti social pvp groups. If you are undergeared but a decent player i can't run a premade to help you gear up for ranked warzones. I'm not going to be able to help you.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Gloga

[Revelationjp]

I feel your pain OP. You're right, but for the wrong reasons. With the population problems, forming your own premades is not near as simple an option as people here let on. I don't know the reason, hopefully it's just not understanding things on our side of the fence rather than a desire to continue their ability to farm us pugers all day long with little effort. I've been playing since EGA, but have always been a PVE player, and thus joined a PVE guild. I recently tried out PVP and became totally addicted. I soon found out however, that the good PVP guilds didn't want me because I'm known as a PVE'er, and the PVP guilds that are advertizing are doing so because they were started by a 12 yr old 4 minutes ago. So, even though I've earned almost my entire BM set in 4 weeks, am at valor 45, have nearly 1000 kills under my belt and 52 MVP votes, none of that matters and I'm queueing solo night after night. I do it because I'm still having fun and I'm stubborn, but I find myself looking around at the start of every match, hoping to see a premade on my team, because at least then I know that some other people know what the heck they're doing.

 

That said, it's not the fault of the premades. In my case anyway, it seems to be a combination of pop problems and elitist attitudes from veteran players. Let's face it, PVP in this game is a skill, but it's not rocket science. Anyone with a little brain power and the desire to learn can do it, and do it well. Pretending that your guild is Delta Force because you're good at PVP is simply childish egocentrism.

 

If PVP'ers really were concerned about the fate of PVP, and really did want a challenge in other premades, rather than only wanting to farm medals from pugs, They'd be more willing to take newbies under their wing and teach them the ropes, and open their guilds to new PVP'ers. Few players are as stubborn as I am, and would have given up after seeing the responses I have.

[NilanVoid]

This thread is so full of fail.

 

-100 Internetz

[Stralk]

Pre-made are allowed to enter a match. Having the ability to use such programs as Team Speak or any other form of voice over interent is a serious advantage in a PvP match. There is no skill envolved when a Pre-made has this advantage over another group who doesn't and the complaints will always show up on the forums as people get frustrated with losing in PvP.

 

BioWARE if you seriously want to make a difference in PvP, allow only ranked Warzones to become group able only. People constantly complain about how great the old days of MMO PvP was but that was because most PvPing was not Pre-made groups or BGs but an all out open brawl and if you had the skill to survive it, it showed.

 

You don't have to agree with me on this which I know most of you won't but lets think about it for just a minute and ask yourself is it really skill, class balance issues or a select group of well cordinated people that have the advantage over another by using a VOI program in matches.

 

If anything Pre-made are getting a free ride in commendation rewards because of this unfair advantage.

 

What needs to happen is the change of how PvP is done for instance.

 

PvP Daily: Should be a reward for pugging in a group and lets see if this changes the outcome of the complaints.

 

Communication is a tactical advantage in every battle, situation and its shown all through history. Its what wins WARS so if another group has a better form of communication 9 out 10 the group with a communication advantage is going to win its the nature of war.

 

I am a PvP player by heart and I love every minute of it but this had to be said and most of you know it.

 

/flame away

 

Couldn't agree more, I join a PvP queue solo, I would like to play against other players who ARENT using TS etc, so it's my team vs them on an equal footing. You want Team vs Team, then there should be a seperate option; why would I want to play vs a TS using team? It's hardly a fair fight, and I don't care how l33t ur.

[Zunayson]

You say there is no skill involved, but you're wrong.

 

It simply raises the skillcap of the game

 

RPGs such as this that are reliant mostly on time invested (Gear, googling rotations and muscle memorying them) have low skillcaps. e.i. There are lots of people better than you and I, but you can only be so good at this game. By using programs, they've increased the skillcap (If someone's bad, they'll still be bad when in a premade, they just get to communicate better). On the flip side, more skilled players appeared more skilled and coordinated.

 

Although you're right; this is annoying to me as well - It's been a month since my weekly - 102/150.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Zunayson

[Chloe]

Pugs don't wanna fight premades. Premades don't wanna fight pugs.

 

Can't wait for rateds.

[Blasphemerr]

I know of probably a dozen of duo's that are "premades" in warzones that don't add the value of premades to their teams. When premades are removed from unranked matches, I wonder what'll happen to friends that aren't able to play in the same warzones together, without being forced into facerollers.

[Lithy]

Honestly, when I lose to premades when I'm not with my group its 90% of the time because I have team mates that don't understand how to pass. Don't call incoming on their doors. Dont call it after they die. Let the ball carrier jump to them in the goal... etc

 

I've beaten premades loads of times with full pug teams but these are names that I know are good, who I like to play with and I know understand the game. Voice increases reaction time by a bit, but on most maps as long as you have skilled players you can compete.

 

Also some premades are worse than pugs

[Isislol]

The fact of the matter is this, people who enjoy pre-mades are simply better at pvp. PUGS have always been bad in every online game since wolfenstein.

 

 

You can't be serious, I've seen tons of rank 70+ players q'ing in a premade because they get murdered when they solo Q. Same with clickers with Conqueror title.

This reminds me of WoW and raiders/BG heroes running premades there till they queued into arena players and got facerolled. Same thing will happen here once rated WZs are live. Many of the "pros" who faceroll undergeared pugs will discover they aren't as good as they think they were versus other coordinated teams.