>> How To Nerf Marauders Without Losing Subscriber Base

[Alizaro]

Ok, nicely worded to catch the devs attention. Bioware cares about subs right?

 

Your post should have been "how to buff warriors without losing subs"

 

Because I'm not playing my rank 78 jugg again. Yeah, search my post history. Just like any other class in this game I get beat to crap (mostly because of this overrated hype about marauders being op) and probably moreso.

 

I'm impressed with your wording, not with your message. I won't bore you with pages about why marauder isn't op, I'll just remind you wer're playing an mmo.

 

If they nerf my marauder to the level of my jugg they will lose my sub.

[Xerain]

Shall I queue up Yakkety-Sax while we all chase each other around, or should I assume the healer in this scenario is a spaz who stands still while I whack at him?

UR is not a feature while I'm actively DPSing the healer, is it?

Or is this a case of, "At all costs, drop everything and chase the healer ceaselessly until he's dead" as 100% sure-fire all situations win advice for DPS? Can I just tell the enemy team I've got an Op healer stealthed somewhere and they'll leave me alone?

Please... If you want to make a point, make it reasonable.

Ultimately, though - when discussing the scenario: "if a mara has a pocket healer", talking about what happens when that healer is dead (ie, when he does NOT have a pocket healer) is dodging the question.

 

 

 

Healing someone who takes 1% damage is no different than healing someone, let's give some decent mitigation out for kicks, someone who takes 50% damage? You just said that?

Why do you think good PVP healers hate people with zero expertise?

 

If you're chasing a healer pillar humping then you're taking him out of the game and letting your teammates do the work of dps'ing down everyone else. And if that healer calls for peels you're pulling people away from objectives giving you another advantage for your team.

 

Didn't think of that did you? You shouldn't let a healer be sitting in the back free casting.

[Derian]

If you're chasing a healer pillar humping then you're taking him out of the game and letting your teammates do the work of dps'ing down everyone else. And if that healer calls for peels you're pulling people away from objectives giving you another advantage for your team.

 

Didn't think of that did you? You shouldn't let a healer be sitting in the back free casting.

 

Im still blown away at people saying "Sometimes it's best to attack a DPS over a healer". It's completely insanity. If a healer is standing there on his own, that is hilarious. Healers will always burst more often and higher than any single DPS if they are left untouched. It is beyond stupid to just let them sit there and do nothing. The time and DPS wasted on a target getting heals is a double whammy.

 

I understand the have one harrass, and others DPS like their tank or another healer for instance, but anyone who thinks leaving a healer untouched should really change up their strategy.

[Xerain]

Im still blown away at people saying "Sometimes it's best to attack a DPS over a healer". It's completely insanity. If a healer is standing there on his own, that is hilarious. Healers will always burst more often and higher than any single DPS if they are left untouched. It is beyond stupid to just let them sit there and do nothing. The time and DPS wasted on a target getting heals is a double whammy.

 

I understand the have one harrass, and others DPS like their tank or another healer for instance, but anyone who thinks leaving a healer untouched should really change up their strategy.

 

i don't know either man. It confuses me.

[criminalheretic]

 

 

Healing someone who takes 1% damage is no different than healing someone, let's give some decent mitigation out for kicks, someone who takes 50% damage? You just said that?

Why do you think good PVP healers hate people with zero expertise?

 

Yes I just said that. I guess maybe this is because I don't play a healer, but I kind of thought they were supposed to heal people that were about to die? Or are you saying that Marauders or at least their UR is so OP, that healers skip other players to heal the Marauder (from the hey my teammate just popped UR bulletin they get) which makes them OP?

 

Kind of like Marauders are OP, BECAUSE they get heals, which they only get BECAUSE they are OP. I don't really get how the causality works in that little scenario there. So I'm going to stick with my original assessment that any healing a Marauder gets after popping UR, isn't actually part of the ability itself. Also sticking with my other brave but logical conclusion that any class gets a free life, if someone chooses to heal them up to full health from low health.

[evilxpoptart]

You know everytime you whine for a nerf an angel sheds a tear.

[Alizaro]

Redesign Undeying Rage / Guarded By The Force:

However, a team of say 6marauders and 2healers vs 6ranged and 2healers will present a significant problem due to the 20% healing reduction, multiple defensive cooldowns, and everytime they vanish, your target becomes another marauder with the same defensive cooldowns up, and they can interrupt and lockout ranged classes from doing their damage. Obviously, 6 of any class will be hard to go against, but especially classes with multiple defensive cooldowns to delay death. 6marauders on a team might be an extreme case, but I imagine seeing 3-4 on many teams.

.

 

Sorry, just re-read the post. This is part of your argument to nerf marauders/sentinels? Do you really believe when rated warzones come out a really competitive team would be stupid enough to run with 6 marauders and 2 healers and expect to win?

 

6 juggs and 2 healers would be way better and still suck. This post could use some editing.

[Gomex]

Wait this cd we're talking about pure dps class is a last stand where you can dps more than a tank class? UNBELIEVABLE...especially considering the cd's name UNDYING RAGE.

 

For those who are crying about marauders self healing...that's dot spec. They don't heal when dots on you. You know what that means? Mitigate as much dmg as possible.

 

I don't understand what is so hard about saving ccs for your opponent's cds....basic principle of pvp. The Sorcs crying about marauders are probably the same one who use their insta ww/stun for no reason and just try to tank through their dmg while slowed 50%. Pyrotechs cry about their only counter...what's new.

 

EVERY class but marauders have a hard stun...so use it to counter the undying rage or predict early after you blown his trinket...which is likely considering they trinketed something on their last kill.

 

On top of that...the reason why dot spec marauders seem so op atm is because their are rarely any heals in the game smart enough to use dispel...especially under pressure or on others.

 

Learn the class a bit better, it's actually quite easy to kite dot specs and when they realize they have to blow cds everytime to get to you they'll eventually avoid you because they don't want to look bad on dps after the game doing more chasing that hitting.

 

So in general if you're crying about marauders

 

Sorc- heals...dispel at 2-3 stacks preferably followed by a bubble...then start predicting what he's going to interrupt. DPS sorc...please for god's sake don't just sit there and try to force lightning a maurader to death. Get your dots up and use creeping root for distance, keep it mind it doesn't add resolve. Knockback follow by a stun for more distance...ww if he opens on you with a charge.

 

Ops- Dispel/kite and stun/flashbang and /lol while being hotted?

 

Juggs- **** you're a tank class, tank harder

 

Sins- use cds properly..stuns at the right time...forceshroud 3 stacks not just for no reason...vanish after if you have to for a full health regain...

 

Mercs- position better, **** out of the way if you're not on a ledge...seen so many mercs cry about marauders when they're the same ones playing hansolo in a cluster ****.

 

Pyro- **** you counter everything else and do rediculous dmg.

[syntxerr]

Just nerf them into the ground, crush them and keep on kicking while they're down. Make them unable to kill any person without having to at least group up with three other players. Do that and I'll have a nice laugh about all those Marauder players who kept on insisting 'healing is fine'.

[Xerain]

Just nerf them into the ground, crush them and keep on kicking while they're down. Make them unable to kill any person without having to at least group up with three other players. Do that and I'll have a nice laugh about all those Marauder players who kept on insisting 'healing is fine'.

 

I wish healers got nerfed into the ground.

[alcek]

Guardians

 

21k hp on a tank, down to 2 k hitpoints left, like your hypothetical marauder. Pops Enure, Hp goes to 9k out of a possible 28k. Pops WZ medpack, heals to 18800 hitpoints. Used focused defense assuming he gets max benfit 10 seconds, 3% hp per second.

During those ten seconds the Jugg has healed from 2k hp to 27200hp.

just saying.

Very well. Now, will you share the other things you are missing in the big picture? Is that same guardian going to tickle you to death during 1-2 minutes if u stand still? So yes, it is very comparable to the marauders, that can kill you in 5 seconds.

[Derian]

Very well. Now, will you share the other things you are missing in the big picture? Is that same guardian going to tickle you to death during 1-2 minutes if u stand still? So yes, it is very comparable to the marauders, that can kill you in 5 seconds.

 

Marauders can kill in five seconds now. That's new.

[Derian]

Wait this cd we're talking about pure dps class is a last stand where you can dps more than a tank class? UNBELIEVABLE...especially considering the cd's name UNDYING RAGE.

 

For those who are crying about marauders self healing...that's dot spec. They don't heal when dots on you. You know what that means? Mitigate as much dmg as possible.

 

I don't understand what is so hard about saving ccs for your opponent's cds....basic principle of pvp. The Sorcs crying about marauders are probably the same one who use their insta ww/stun for no reason and just try to tank through their dmg while slowed 50%. Pyrotechs cry about their only counter...what's new.

 

EVERY class but marauders have a hard stun...so use it to counter the undying rage or predict early after you blown his trinket...which is likely considering they trinketed something on their last kill.

 

On top of that...the reason why dot spec marauders seem so op atm is because their are rarely any heals in the game smart enough to use dispel...especially under pressure or on others.

 

Learn the class a bit better, it's actually quite easy to kite dot specs and when they realize they have to blow cds everytime to get to you they'll eventually avoid you because they don't want to look bad on dps after the game doing more chasing that hitting.

 

So in general if you're crying about marauders

 

Sorc- heals...dispel at 2-3 stacks preferably followed by a bubble...then start predicting what he's going to interrupt. DPS sorc...please for god's sake don't just sit there and try to force lightning a maurader to death. Get your dots up and use creeping root for distance, keep it mind it doesn't add resolve. Knockback follow by a stun for more distance...ww if he opens on you with a charge.

 

Ops- Dispel/kite and stun/flashbang and /lol while being hotted?

 

Juggs- **** you're a tank class, tank harder

 

Sins- use cds properly..stuns at the right time...forceshroud 3 stacks not just for no reason...vanish after if you have to for a full health regain...

 

Mercs- position better, **** out of the way if you're not on a ledge...seen so many mercs cry about marauders when they're the same ones playing hansolo in a cluster ****.

 

Pyro- **** you counter everything else and do rediculous dmg.

 

Of course it is. People blow their CC on the dumbest things. You should not waste your CC on just trying to kill random joe jedi. I never CC just for a kill unless it's an important kill in a 1v1 situation, I'll be running from point A to B and catch a random sorc stun that does absolutely nothing to harm my intentions. Then when I'm crushing their face in as they stand there trying to tank me they have nothing to stop it lol.

 

I save my CCs for situations like a Trooper Healer bubble, but I guess it's ok for Sentinels to have to save their CC for these situations because Healers need to be pampered.

[V-Serp]

I wish healers got nerfed into the ground.

 

I don't think there will be any nerfs to anyone anytime soon. Bioware is happy with the balance right now. Also I don't know that I want to see them try to change the balance, as rather than fixing balance Bioware only makes classes boring to play. How does anybody win when Bioware just removes classes from the fun pool?

 

I'd rather have broken but fun PVP than allegedly balanced and boring PVP.

 

Honestly I think that's the real issue. At least that's what it is for me. I'm effective with every class, but some of them are just more FUN to play than others. For a skilled player, Marauder is probably the most fun class because it gives you the most variety and versatility and so it winds up being the most fun to play.

 

Also I came to realize that I just don't like MMOs. I bet the majority of people complaining are the same way but they just don't realize it yet. There's nothing wrong with moving on and playing something you do enjoy, or not even playing games at all. Personally I love reading and watching sports/movies. You don't have enough time in the day to do everything so you need to prioritize what you do want to do, and you should always do what you enjoy the most and what is best for you.

[Xerain]

I don't think there will be any nerfs to anyone anytime soon. Bioware is happy with the balance right now. Also I don't know that I want to see them try to change the balance, as rather than fixing balance Bioware only makes classes boring to play. How does anybody win when Bioware just removes classes from the fun pool?

 

I'd rather have broken but fun PVP than allegedly balanced and boring PVP.

 

Honestly I think that's the real issue. At least that's what it is for me. I'm effective with every class, but some of them are just more FUN to play than others. For a skilled player, Marauder is probably the most fun class because it gives you the most variety and versatility and so it winds up being the most fun to play.

 

Also I came to realize that I just don't like MMOs. I bet the majority of people complaining are the same way but they just don't realize it yet. There's nothing wrong with moving on and playing something you do enjoy, or not even playing games at all. Personally I love reading and watching sports/movies. You don't have enough time in the day to do everything so you need to prioritize what you do want to do, and you should always do what you enjoy the most and what is best for you.

 

If you mean that marauder gives you more buttons to work with, we could go with sniper too if you want a ranged class.

[Altruismo]

Yes I just said that. I guess maybe this is because I don't play a healer, but I kind of thought they were supposed to heal people that were about to die? Or are you saying that Marauders or at least their UR is so OP, that healers skip other players to heal the Marauder (from the hey my teammate just popped UR bulletin they get) which makes them OP?

I'm not saying Marauders are OP at all, I'm saying why I think UD should have -99% healing, I ought to be able to discuss that since it's mentioned in the first post of this thread, right?

It's a long way from thinking they shouldn't be able to heal during UD to thinking the whole class is overpowered.

 

Im still blown away at people saying "Sometimes it's best to attack a DPS over a healer". It's completely insanity. If a healer is standing there on his own, that is hilarious. Healers will always burst more often and higher than any single DPS if they are left untouched. It is beyond stupid to just let them sit there and do nothing. The time and DPS wasted on a target getting heals is a double whammy.

 

I understand the have one harrass, and others DPS like their tank or another healer for instance, but anyone who thinks leaving a healer untouched should really change up their strategy.

 

Sometimes, a healer can LOS me where he can recover and it may take me ~5-7 seconds to get back into a position where I can damage him.

He may not have LOS on someone else he needs to heal, or he may be dedicating his healing to himself since he's one hit from death and/or has DoTs on him. He could pop back out at any time, it may take him longer to come out than it takes me to burn someone else down, I don't know.

I can risk changing targets and maybe do more damage to them than he can heal before I chase him off again, or even specifically to draw him back out before he's fully recovered .

Or I can spend the time it takes to chase him doing zero damage to anyone.

Maybe he's even in a position where chasing him is certain death, or his team can and will peel my attempt to chase him, but of course I should still single-midedly dedicate all my resources to chasing him, did I get that?

 

There is a huge gap between "leaving a healer untouched" and "chasing the healer is not the best option".

Don't pretend that a Mara being healed during UD can only possibly occur because an entire team has been completely ignoring a healer who's just sitting there free-casting.

 

Anyway, when you're done Hi-fiving each other for teaching me a real lesson in what DPS should be mindlessly doing at all costs, at all times, without ever adapting to what's actually happening, you can rush off to one of the many threads where a healer is complaining that it's unfair that he has stop free-casting to try to kite and LOS you. You can explain to him that he needs to L2P, because while you're chasing him around you're not killing anyone and he's staying alive to heal his team.

Jokes on him right, because nobody would ever do damage to anyone else his team while he's in the WZ somewhere - I heard he's at snow, all 8 of us go now!

 

To the point though, I've said why I think it should be -99% healing, and so far the best counter argument is, "If you knew how to play, that would never happen".

Yeah, I'm unconvinced, guys.

[alcek]

Marauders can kill in five seconds now. That's new.

Force sweep+master strike chained are getting very close to completing this task.

[Xerain]

 

To the point though, I've said why I think it should be -99% healing, and so far the best counter argument is, "If you knew how to play, that would never happen".

Yeah, I'm unconvinced, guys.

 

And so for the best argument i've seen is boo hoo a marauders pocket healer is healing him nerf undying rage! The healer is doing his job is he not? You're allowing the healer to do his job are you not? The fact that everyone is doing what they're supposed to on the marauders side doesn't make an ability overpowered. It makes TEAM WORK that much more valuable. Healers can't keep everyone up and if a situation like that happens where a healer is free casting and a mara pops the UD... GG.

[Roiz]

However, a team of say 6marauders and 2healers vs 6ranged and 2healers will present a significant problem due to the 20% healing reduction, multiple defensive cooldowns, and everytime they vanish, your target becomes another marauder with the same defensive cooldowns up, and they can interrupt and lockout ranged classes from doing their damage. Obviously, 6 of any class will be hard to go against, but especially classes with multiple defensive cooldowns to delay death. 6marauders on a team might be an extreme case, but I imagine seeing 3-4 on many teams.

 

I do believe that making some of these changes will not drop your marauder subscription numbers and should prevent a larger group of subscribers from canceling their subscriptions from Marauder QQ.

 

Actually most of people are happy with current class balance, which is much better than any other MMO. If you cannot beat a melee team playing in ranged team (which is easy to do) learn to play, improve your skills. At the end you can reroll marauder, assasin or juggernaut and enjoy playing melee.

 

It is an illusion then you play against others you often think their class is better. Currently snipers, powertechs and darkness assasins are no way worse than marauders.

[Xerain]

Force sweep+master strike chained are getting very close to completing this task.

 

uh... charge/obliterate 1.5 seconds (3 rage), crush 3 seconds (0 rage), battering assault 4.5 seconds (6 rage), master strike 7.5 seconds (6 rage), smash after master strike ends 7.5 seconds (3 rage).

 

 

5 seconds huh?

[syntxerr]

I wish healers got nerfed into the ground.

 

That's what I'll tell you about Marauders once they're on the ground and have to flee from everyone just looking at them and justify it with the fact that you can still DPS when you follow all the others and attack their targets.

[Xerain]

That's what I'll tell you about Marauders once they're on the ground and have to flee from everyone just looking at them and justify it with the fact that you can still DPS when you follow all the others and attack their targets.

 

Lol too bad healers weren't nerfed to the ground and if you think they are... well have fun being a madness sorc now?

[syntxerr]

Lol too bad healers weren't nerfed to the ground and if you think they are... well have fun being a madness sorc now?

 

Sorry but that's just hot air...

 

Get a Seer to 50, get him into Battlemaster stuff and then duel an equally geared Marauder. I'm sure you won't come back to report your experience here.

Edited May 17, 2012 by syntxerr

[Xerain]

Sorry but that's just hot air...

 

Get a Seer to 50, get him into Battlemaster stuff and then duel an equally geared Marauder. I'm sure you won't come back to report your experience here.

 

Doesn't mean you can't heal...

[alcek]

uh... charge/obliterate 1.5 seconds (3 rage), crush 3 seconds (0 rage), battering assault 4.5 seconds (6 rage), master strike 7.5 seconds (6 rage), smash after master strike ends 7.5 seconds (3 rage).

 

 

5 seconds huh?

If you start counting after the charge lands, it is getting pretty close. Also no one says that you start from 0 rage.

Edited May 17, 2012 by alcek