Can SWTOR be Saved ?

[DarthMaulUK]

I think that the game is beyond rescue. With Tera doing well and Guild Wars 2 around the corner(rumours have it June 28th?!) - SWTOR needs a miracle.

 

They only have ONE option to save the game and its this -

Go free to play - with server merges, x-server support - offer free trial with a new mount and be creative for a change. Put the WAR back in Star WARS....

[Maxkardinal]

Can SWTOR be Saved ?

No it can not.

 

I think this will be the first MMO ever closed because of unprofitability after 6 monthes. Sadly.

[LilSaihah]

No it can not.

 

I think this will be the first MMO ever closed because of unprofitability after 6 monthes. Sadly.

 

How long did APB last?

[Nyla]

I think the damage is done. I think many MMO players have already been through the "wait and see, it will get better" dance in other games and just have little to no desire to do it again with this game. This game will fall of into niche status and be lucky to have 200k playing.

 

The MMO player base refuse to accommodate developers which employ a "pay to beta" model while the developer finishes the game. Good for the players. This type of game development was always negative for the players and its refreshing to see the players as a whole start to reject this with such passion.

 

Bioware should have known better than this and it proves it doesnt matter how big and renowned the developer or budget....

 

DO NOT RELEASE A GAME UNFINISHED AND EXPECT THE PLAYERS TO EMBRACE IT WHILE YOU ATTEMPT TO PLAY CATCH UP AND FINISH IT.

 

Lesson to be learned here for other developers of MMO's in the future for sure.

 

While I agree it seems players have a problem with that, I disagree it's a bad model (except for the bugged content).

 

With this model, devs can release a MMO sooner and focus the new development based on late beta and launch feedback. If they are reactive enough, it's a great way to answer to the main wishes of the community. The fact this model was badly used in some MMOs doesn't mean it's a bad model, there's a big difference between design and intents on one hand and implementation and results on the other.

 

 

The thing to note is that the consequences of wanting a "finished" MMO at launch will be less MMOs developped and it will take longer to release them. So from around 5 years, it will probably need 6 or 7 years to add all the "necessary" features others games have. As the investments will be bigger, it will be seen as more risky so they will choose to focus on less risky and more profitable games.

 

If players think it's better, fine.

[Jamus_Divinus]

I think that the game is beyond rescue. With Tera doing well and Guild Wars 2 around the corner(rumours have it June 28th?!) - SWTOR needs a miracle.

 

Tera has less subs than SWTOR by far and yet Tera is 'doing well' but 'SWTOR needs a miracle'.

 

I don't see the logic in what you wrote. Do you?

 

Back OT, I still don't believe this game needs to be saved. Some added sandbox elements would be nice but this game does what it set out to doesn't it? Isn't this what themepark MMO's are like? I'm a sandbox fan with TOR being my first themepark.

[Ashlian]

I think that the game is beyond rescue. With Tera doing well and Guild Wars 2 around the corner(rumours have it June 28th?!) - SWTOR needs a miracle.

 

They only have ONE option to save the game and its this -

Go free to play - with server merges, x-server support - offer free trial with a new mount and be creative for a change. Put the WAR back in Star WARS....

 

And yet it's amazing how many of my guild members have gone to play D3 then come back and said well, that was fun, we'll make it a night a week like we do BF3, but it's not exactly an MMO, is it? And the people that will enjoy GW2 are not exactly the people who would be the market in the long run for SWTOR to begin with. I, personally, wouldn't touch GW2 with a ten foot pole. But hey, speak for us all, do. I know a lot of people who have no intention of playing GW2, simply because we don't like cutthroat PVP. Strangely, there's a lot of us out there who find it stressful rather than enjoyable to be constantly battling other players rather than the game itself. We're hardly a lost demographic.

 

I absolutely think BW must close servers and consolidate the population if the game is to last, but to predict gloom and doom failure over the arrival of apples to oranges games that a lot of people playing might not even find attractive in the least /shrug. Obviously, the people touting them the most loudly are the ones for whom they're the best fit. More power to you and have fun playing. I'll continue to enjoy SWTOR, though I do, sincerely, urge the devs to get off their butts and consolidate the servers.

 

Not every gamer needs the game to be perfect off the bat. I think it's a little ludicrous to expect that in any MMO, and the gamers expecting the developers to achieve that are the ones who will be doomed to wander eternally from game to game in disappointment when a little patience might reap some rewards. But that's an attitude that's been around a lot longer than the last few years, and I've watched plenty of friends game hop to every "BEST GAME EVER." Funny how it never actually was the best game ever and they left after a few months for something else. Or, and this was always amusing.....came back to the game they left at the next expac. Gotta love 'em.

[GriffinWook]

I imagine they will consolidate servers before they throw the whole thing in the trash 6 months in.

[Mallorik]

Tera has less subs than SWTOR by far and yet Tera is 'doing well' but 'SWTOR needs a miracle'.

 

I don't see the logic in what you wrote. Do you?

 

Im no tera fan but last i saw teras sub count was just over 700k, if you think thats by far more than what swtor has right now then you need to really sit down and think about it again.

 

Tera also cost 50m, not 200 or 300m so yeah i would say right now, tera is doing better than swtor.

 

Back OT, I still don't believe this game needs to be saved. Some added sandbox elements would be nice but this game does what it set out to doesn't it? Isn't this what themepark MMO's are like? I'm a sandbox fan with TOR being my first themepark.

 

I understand that this is your first non sandbox mmo, so youre probably not used to mmos that add content, Thempark mmos do and need to, and the more subs the more content. So yeah, the game needs to be saved.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Mallorik

[EzoEo]

Im no tera fan but last i saw teras sub count was just over 700k, if you think thats by far more than what swtor has right now then you need to really sit down and think about it again.

 

Tera also cost 50m, not 200 or 300m so yeah i would say right now, tera is doing better than swtor.

 

Tera is only weeks and like every other MMO once the first 30 days runs the population will drop. There is always more people around in the first month due to the new MMO excitement.

 

So stating which game is doing at present is rather pointless. Come back in December and tells what the population is like as I'm certain it will have changed.

[kilosoldier]

While I agree it seems players have a problem with that, I disagree it's a bad model (except for the bugged content).

 

With this model, devs can release a MMO sooner and focus the new development based on late beta and launch feedback. If they are reactive enough, it's a great way to answer to the main wishes of the community. The fact this model was badly used in some MMOs doesn't mean it's a bad model, there's a big difference between design and intents on one hand and implementation and results on the other.

 

 

The thing to note is that the consequences of wanting a "finished" MMO at launch will be less MMOs developped and it will take longer to release them. So from around 5 years, it will probably need 6 or 7 years to add all the "necessary" features others games have. As the investments will be bigger, it will be seen as more risky so they will choose to focus on less risky and more profitable games.

 

If players think it's better, fine.

 

I think players have already spoken out over the 3 years prior to SWTOR launch. Thats what amazes me that they chose to launch anyway. Rift,Aion,AoC,WAR,CO,STO I mean the list reads of like a manual for dummies of what not to do for MMO developers. All of those games launched far to early with developer admitted flaws and inadequacies and the player base rejected this lock step. I was the biggest fanboy you could imagine for this game and thought that if there was one developer that knew better, that could read the tea leaves and interpret the current climate and act accordingly, it was Bioware. Man, I dont know, but there is little question that this will send out shockwaves through out the industry. If it means fewer but more meaningful and well developed games that thats fine with me.

 

This whole thing is too bad. I really mean that. It brings me no joy to be sitting here almost 6 mothns out with the game so mismanaged and the Bioware so out of touch with the community of MMO gamers.

[Mallorik]

Tera is only weeks and like every other MMO once the first 30 days runs the population will drop. There is always more people around in the first month due to the new MMO excitement.

 

So stating which game is doing at present is rather pointless. Come back in December and tells what the population is like as I'm certain it will have changed.

 

Yes that is true, I was just pointing out that the statement was wrong, swtor is not doing better than tera. And that tera needs much much less to survive and put out new content.

[metalgearyoda]

Im no tera fan but last i saw teras sub count was just over 700k, if you think thats by far more than what swtor has right now then you need to really sit down and think about it again.

 

Tera also cost 50m, not 200 or 300m so yeah i would say right now, tera is doing better than swtor.

 

 

So much misinformation... Brain... Can't... Compute!!!

 

First off. Swtor subs are 1.3million. That's just a known fact. Get out.

 

Second, you have no idea how much swtor costs. Estimates range between 80m-500m. The best estimate is closer to 80m.

 

Good god.

 

Just get out.

 

Edit: This isn't directed at the poster specifically. Just that these numbers are being thrown about.

Edited May 20, 2012 by metalgearyoda

[gregordunbar]

Yes that is true, I was just pointing out that the statement was wrong, swtor is not doing better than tera. And that tera needs much much less to survive and put out new content.

 

Tera has been out for over a year in Asia...it is not a new game...and it has not been receiving new content on a regular basis. What Tera needs it will never get...like a story that makes sense. Its story was so bad that even reviews in Japan made fun of it. Tera is a hyped up generic game...SWTOR was a hyped up single player RPG acting like an MMO.

[Maxkardinal]

So much misinformation... Brain... Can't... Compute!!!

 

First off. Swtor subs are 1.3million. That's just a known fact. Get out.

 

Where are all those people?

 

Most servers are light or completely empty. There are 2 server, which hit heavy on weekends, during primetime. And aroud 20 that do standard. And thats a known fact also.

 

Where are those 1 300 000?

Edited May 20, 2012 by Maxkardinal

[metalgearyoda]

Tera has been out for over a year in Asia...it is not a new game...and it has not been receiving new content on a regular basis. What Tera needs it will never get...like a story that makes sense. Its story was so bad that even reviews in Japan made fun of it. Tera is a hyped up generic game...SWTOR was a hyped up single player RPG acting like an MMO.

 

DIS TWEE SAP IS WEIRD. GO KERR ALL DAH TWEES!

 

Honestly, I feel like that game is trolling me by making me kill 80,000 boars.

[metalgearyoda]

Where are all those people?

 

Most servers are light or completely empty. There are 2 server, which hit heavy on weekends, during primetime. And aroud 20 that do standard. And thats a known fact also.

 

Where are those 1 300 000?

 

Jesus Christ people.

 

Quarterly investor call by EA at the start of the month. (this month)

 

How do you guys not know this?

 

Edit: Just google EA quarterly investor call swtor 1.3 million subs.

Take your pick of the first 50 sites about it.

Edited May 20, 2012 by metalgearyoda

[Jurgen-Ferik]

They need to abandon legacy completely and focus on PVP. Edited May 21, 2012 by Jurgen-Ferik

[Maxkardinal]

Jesus Christ people.

 

Quarterly investor call by EA at the start of the month. (this month)

 

How do you guys not know this?

 

Edit: Just google EA quarterly investor call swtor 1.3 million subs.

Take your pick of the first 50 sites about it.

 

Ok. This game is doing great. And community is growing fast.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Maxkardinal

[metalgearyoda]

Ok. This game is doing great. And community is growing fast.

 

The game is doing great.

 

The community is losing players faster than it is gaining them, which is typical of a launch (just look at WoWs launch, lost subs like crazy at the start and all the GW players said it would die)

 

However, the bleeding will slow and eventually it will either settle on a population (look at rift about 6-8 months post launch)

 

If the game continues to develop well people will come back and some new players will start and you will see slow growth (rift today)

 

The doom and gloom people are wrong and the "this is going to reach 5m subs soon" people are also probably wrong. I suspect we will bottom out around 800k-1m and grow slowly to around 1.3m this time next year.

 

If you guys think bioware or EA is worried about this game you are insane. They know they will make money and for them this is a product and they are running a business. Even if this game goes free to play they will continue to make a profit which for them is a success.

 

Edit: Some of you seem to have the idea that their goal is to make you happy or make art. Its not. Its to get your 15 dollars a month or make you buy fancy pets. (lil'kt)

Edited May 20, 2012 by metalgearyoda

[Mallorik]

First off. Swtor subs are 1.3million. That's just a known fact. Get out..

 

The only two known facts about that subject i can come up with is :

 

1: they were counting anyone with a sub, not just recurring subs.

 

2) It lost 400k subs in two months, the 1.3 number was one month ago.

 

So if you believe that swtor has 1.3m subs right now then you have to believe that everyone who had free game time and game trials subbed another month, and that people stopped leaving the game.

[metalgearyoda]

The only two known facts about that subject i can come up with is :

 

1: they were counting anyone with a sub, not just recurring subs.

 

2) It lost 400k subs in two months, the 1.3 number was one month ago.

 

So if you believe that swtor has 1.3m subs right now then you have to believe that everyone who had free game time and game trials subbed another month, and that people stopped leaving the game.

 

So using imaginary figures is more accurate then real figures that are a month old.

 

That's adorable.

 

Edit: You should print that out and put it on the fridge.

Edited May 21, 2012 by metalgearyoda

[Jurgen-Ferik]

1.3 spread out over 30 servers.

 

There are 5 people online on Rakata mind prison on a Sunday afternoon.

[metalgearyoda]

1.3 spread out over 30 servers.

 

There are 5 people online on Rakata mind prison on a Sunday afternoon.

 

its closer to 1.3 spread over 124 (or 126) servers.

[Azumio]

Like was said to people who kept parading around that 1.7 Million number - They inflated those numbers.

 

Look - I got this game during the Christmas launch, with 3 others. *Fun fact, Also got MW3 then and it sits unopened right infront of me *

 

Anyway, two of us bought 6 Month subscriptions. He unsubbed at the end of January and was done with the game. He wasn't really hyped nor was he a big Bioware fan, just a fan of Knights of the Old Republic. Another didn't make it past the free month, he's playing Call of Duty, and the last guy is busy with real-life but when he has time he's in League of Legends (I think that's the name).

 

Two of those can be discounted. One's an FPS junkie, and the other just really doesn't have the time for MMORPGs right now, well at-least a paid one I guess.

 

Anyway, I canceled mine in February, mostly due to a number of factors (I wanted an Sci-Fi MMORPG, I wanted an MMORPG that actually incorporated Story, I was a huge Bioware fan in earlier years etc.) but even I couldn't stand it.

 

Now, the point of this is simple - Me and the guy who bought the 6 Month both count in that 1.3 Million number. Neither of us play anymore. He's in Tera and I'm waiting for Guildwars 2 and The Secret World/ArcheAge.

 

How many more of us are out there? This without including the free players they counted?

 

Let's be brutally honest right now - This game has less than 800k Active Subscriptions. I'd say around 700k right now.

 

This game is on a very familiar path for MMORPGs - The path to Free 2 Play. All that remains to be seen is what the pricing structure will look like. We can guesstimate pretty high since we have two huge money hoarding companies involved (EA, LucasArts). It's not going to be pretty. Not by a long shot.

 

If you are like me, and want that Epic Sci-Fi MMORPG feel, google Otherlands. It's one I'm keeping my eye on right now.

 

As for the "Why aren't you playing TERA; Diablo 3 etc."

 

Well, I played the beta for Tera. I thought it was absolutely beautiful and ran smooth (By contrast, SWTOR has ugly, boring visuals and it runs like a hog). That said, it never hooked me story/lore wise, and I felt like I was playing an Aion sequel. And the only PvP I could get involved in was pointless. You turned Outlaw and attacked whoever. It didn't leave a good impression.

 

Diablo has never interested me. I never played the first two, so picking up the 3rd without knowing the lore and such of the others is kinda stupid, imo.

[gurugeorge]

I think players have already spoken out over the 3 years prior to SWTOR launch. Thats what amazes me that they chose to launch anyway. Rift,Aion,AoC,WAR,CO,STO I mean the list reads of like a manual for dummies of what not to do for MMO developers. All of those games launched far to early with developer admitted flaws and inadequacies and the player base rejected this lock step. I was the biggest fanboy you could imagine for this game and thought that if there was one developer that knew better, that could read the tea leaves and interpret the current climate and act accordingly, it was Bioware. Man, I dont know, but there is little question that this will send out shockwaves through out the industry. If it means fewer but more meaningful and well developed games that thats fine with me.

 

This whole thing is too bad. I really mean that. It brings me no joy to be sitting here almost 6 mothns out with the game so mismanaged and the Bioware so out of touch with the community of MMO gamers.

 

I do agree with you a lot in spirit, but bear in mind this: if any of those games you mention weren't still profitable, they'd have been shut down.

 

Obviously developers and publishers shoot for the stars, but I think most business plans are ready to take into account if a game doesn't do as well as hoped.

 

All that happens is that the development team is matched to the degree of profitability - all the way from healthy dev teams furiously polishing and balancing the game and pumping out regular free and paid content, down to the level of the game no longer being profitable, devs being withdrawn, and the game being shut down.

 

The MMO "community" has got to get out of this silly rut of conceptualizing that every MMO is meant by its developers and publishers to be a "WoW killer". It's just a daft meme that's sprouted up that's probably done a lot of harm - it's like little boys arguing about whether Superman could beat Batman. Kids come on forums and think they're clever by pointing out that a game isn't a "WoW killer" or whatever.

 

Nothing has to be a "WoW killer". In fact, if you look at WoW, Blizzard didn't intend it to be an "EQ killer", they intended to open up a new market by streamlining EQ - they didn't want EQ's players so much as new players.

 

I think this is partly what BW intended, and they partly succeeded, but they also partly failed.