Can SWTOR be Saved ?

[JaeAXP]

I'd be happy for you to let me win, but only because your "facts" are not facts. Fact's normally have data supporting them. To use LOTRO and DDO as examples while discounting Aion, AoC, CoH and CO is illogical.

 

lol, aion pop did rise after it went f2p, so did AoC, CoH and CO and once again for how long it took for the pop to drop is another matter... "sigh" and the graphs are 100% accurate right? show me ur proof that the graph is 100% legit... its a standstill at best.

 

btw, the graphs that was pointed out... doesn't show exactly when that game went f2p its too broad from year to year...

Edited May 19, 2012 by JaeAXP

[Ignicity]

lol, aion pop did rise after it went f2p, so did AoC, CoH and CO and once again for how long it took for the pop to drop is another matter... "sigh" and the graphs are 100% accurate right? show me ur proof that the graph is 100% legit... its a standstill at best.

 

Ahhh, a conspiracy theorist. What makes you think someone would to go so much trouble to falsify data like this?

[JeramieCrowe]

lol, aion pop did rise after it went f2p, so did AoC, CoH and CO and once again for how long it took for the pop to drop is another matter... "sigh" and the graphs are 100% accurate right? show me ur proof that the graph is 100% legit... its a standstill at best.

 

btw, the graphs that was pointed out by someone else lol... doesn't show exactly when that game went f2p its too broad from year to year...

 

mmodata.net (where those charts were from) has been around for a LONG time and is well-respected as a very accurate information source.

[JaeAXP]

Ahhh, a conspiracy theorist. What makes you think someone would to go so much trouble to falsify data like this?

 

not falsify but not saying its 100% accurate.. and here is my proof...

CoH - http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/25/city-of-heroes-rejoices-in-f2p-success-even-as-it-mourns-statesm/

AoC - http://www.gamespot.com/news/age-of-conan-doubles-revenue-since-going-f2p-6328481

CO - http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/17/champions-online-gains-profits-and-players-as-a-free-to-play/

Aion - just went f2p not too long ago, will prove pop rise after numbers are in, thanks.

 

anyother games you need me to prove f2p raises pop? and also revenue (ehhhem bioware/lucas)

Edited May 19, 2012 by JaeAXP

[Ignicity]

not falsify but not saying its 100% accurate.. and here is my proof...

CoH - http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/25/city-of-heroes-rejoices-in-f2p-success-even-as-it-mourns-statesm/

AoC - http://www.gamespot.com/news/age-of-conan-doubles-revenue-since-going-f2p-6328481

CO - http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/17/champions-online-gains-profits-and-players-as-a-free-to-play/

Aion - just went f2p not too long ago, will prove pop rise after numbers are in, thanks.

 

anyother games you need me to prove f2p raises pop? and also revenue (ehhhem bioware/lucas)

 

 

lolz. 3 Online magazine articles that contain no data, just nice little quotes from executives

 

gg

[JaeAXP]

lolz. 3 Online magazine articles that contain no data, just nice little quotes from executives

 

gg

 

ahhh only response you can give me... I proved my point and backed it up, still waiting on yours, show me a game that population has not changed or actully got worse after switching to f2p model? you simply can't... so back to your past post about fact, it is a fact...

Edited May 19, 2012 by JaeAXP

[Ignicity]

Name one MMO executive that would grant an interview with an online gaming magazine journalist, only to admit that their decision to move to f2p was a bad one.

 

I bet you can't.

 

Now, you're going to tell me that because you can't find one that has done that, it must therefore mean that all f2p games are successful.

 

If you cannot accept that those interviews you quoted were nothing more than part of an elaborate PR campaign, then I think were done here.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Ignicity

[JaeAXP]

Name one MMO executive that would grant an interview with an online gaming magazine journalist, only to admit that their decision to move to f2p was a bad one.

 

I bet you can't.

 

maybe just maybe because the answer is none... and yes we are done.

Edited May 19, 2012 by JaeAXP

[Ignicity]

maybe just maybe because the answer is none... and yes we are done.

 

Ok, so in you eyes, all F2P games are successful. Got it.

 

I'm not sure which to be amused by. Naivety or stupidity.

 

If nothing else, at least let me borrow your rose coloured glasses.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Ignicity

[JaeAXP]

Ok, so in you eyes, all F2P games are successful. Got it.

 

I'm not sure which to be amused by. Naivety or stupidity.

 

you should be in politics, really you should... we went from rise in population now to success, and no I'm not saying all f2p games are successful just stating to what i'm been stating that once a game goes to f2p model population rises... geez only thing we agree on is what i was thinking about you... Naivety or stupidity.

[Wayshuba]

People got it into their heads that this game would be a WoW killer, these people these extremely thick people are part of the problem all MMOs suffer from these days most companies are realistic SWTOR was realistic about it but people simply don't care or think to care hating is simply easier.

 

Sorry to disagree but EA has been saying since 2008 they expected this to be a WoW killer. Even so much as claiming they would gain more than 11 million subs. So you can't blame people for this. EA wasn't realistic about this from the beginning and the recent 1.3 million subs number meeting expectations was a severe backpedal from what they were saying all the way up to launch.

[Ignicity]

you should be in politics, really you should... we went from rise in population now to success, and no I'm not saying all f2p games are successful just stating to what i'm been stating that once a game goes to f2p model population rises... geez only thing we agree on is what i was thinking about you... Naivety or stupidity.

 

You go round in circles, yet you still don't see the connection.

 

The larger the sustainable population in an MMO, the more successful it is.

 

You're advocacy to push this game towards becoming a f2p tells me that you think this game would sustain a higher population than it currently has ONLY if it becomes f2p. (An idea I would absolutely disagree with).

Edited May 19, 2012 by Ignicity

[Apeth]

Char transfers. A x server lfg and ranked wz.

 

And this games sorted. Be patient

[Wayshuba]

Yeah, the last reports from bioware is they were claiming a loss from 1.7 million subs to 1.3 and that was back in March, what people and or bioware arent taking into account is the included play time from the box users 60 days is it? and also they are going by subs and not active players, When the next quarter comes out its going to be eye opening several websights and mmo critics sites, are claiming that they data they have been gathering from the dailys SERVER Population (the actual people playing there subs) is estimating the true active community somwhere around 600k now and still falling, so when next statement comes out from bioware and they claim to go from 1.3 million down to 600k they are dangerously close to the 500k sub threshold they need to keep this game profitable (using biowares own words) so im curious when those #s get released just to see how bad it really has gotten in the last 60 days

 

Just a clarification, that 500k subs to be profitable was based on the initially planned $80m development budget, not the $300m+ estimated budget it actually ended up costing. 500k subs will bring in $84m annually on average. If current costs sit at about $24m year, that leaves $60m left to recuperate costs not including profit. Sorry, but EA is not going to accept a 5 years to break even on the game (assuming subs hold at 500k for 5 years). No company would.

 

Reality is, the game NEEDS about 1.8m subs to hold for 12 solid months just to reach break even. Math is not that hard to do.

[BlueFromMoon]

I dont believe in F2P, this game is just ****, sorry if I say this bluntly, but its fail as MMO game. If they go F2P they just buy couple month more thats and yet again everyone leaves.

[JeramieCrowe]

I dont believe in F2P, this game is just ****, sorry if I say this bluntly, but its fail as MMO game. If they go F2P they just buy couple month more thats and yet again everyone leaves.

 

Why are you here? You just joined this month, and have been nothing but negative from the beginning, and pushing TESO.

 

Have you even played this game?

Edited May 19, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Ignicity]

Why are you here? You just joined this month, and have been nothing but negative from the beginning, and pushing TESO.

 

Have you even played this game?

 

I'm guessing previous player that's come back on a trial account.

[JaeAXP]

You go round in circles, yet you still don't see the connection.

 

The larger the sustainable population in an MMO, the more successful it is.

 

You're advocacy to push this game towards becoming a f2p tells me that you think this game would sustain a higher population than it currently has ONLY if it becomes f2p. (An idea I would absolutely disagree with).

 

I go in circles??? here are some games still popular w/ low pop ok?

FF XI, DAoC, Lineage 1/2, GW (some may agree not true mmo), CoH

and of course still going strong w/ low pop Ultima online (cudos for hall of fame)... and might i say all successful...

 

again... f2p model increases pop, for how long varries and it will fall, i assure you it will, thats all i'm stating... f2p will save this game, if they don't... remember SW galaxies? what happened? and again ppl will leave if it goes f2p but i assure you more ppl will play this game and once again "sigh" its a fact.

Edited May 19, 2012 by JaeAXP

[Ignicity]

I go in circles??? here are some games still popular w/ low pop ok?

FF XI, DAoC, Lineage 1/2, GW (some may agree not true mmo), CoH

and of course still going strong w/ low pop Ultima online (cudos for hall of fame)... and might i say all successful...

 

again... f2p model increases pop, for how long varries and it will fall, i assure you it will, thats all i'm stating... f2p will save this game, if they don't... remember SW galaxies? what happened? and again ppl will leave if it goes f2p but i assure you more ppl will play this game and once again "sigh" its a fact.

 

Those games may have been popular once upon a time, but not one of the ones you listed ever managed to get more than 700k active subscribers.

 

It's clear that your "facts" are merely your "opinion".

[JaeAXP]

Why are you here? You just joined this month, and have been nothing but negative from the beginning, and pushing TESO.

 

Have you even played this game?

 

you made my night! awesome, thank you...

[JaeAXP]

Those games may have been popular once upon a time, but not one of the ones you listed ever managed to get more than 700k active subscribers.

 

It's clear that your "facts" are merely your "opinion".

 

with that i'm out, re-check your numbers brother... no more than 700k subs lol, i still can't stop laughing... thats classic.

[Ignicity]

with that i'm out, re-check your numbers brother... no more than 700k subs lol, i still can't stop laughing... thats classic.

 

Perhaps you should check it.

 

http://mmodata.net/

[JaeAXP]

Perhaps you should check it.

 

http://mmodata.net/

 

please stop, seriously just stop lol... agian re-check your numbers... hint: starts w/ an "L" and ends in "ineage"

no hate but much love brother... this was fun night, differences in our ummm lets say beliefs but you have a good night or day... its 7:10 am here and my eyes can't seem to stay up...

 

btw, site and graphs is unreliable... lineage 2 hit 14 mill subs or maybe they don't take asian subs into consideration.

Edited May 19, 2012 by JaeAXP

[Jalez]

DAoC had, and I know my numbers arent rock solid but close.........around 250k-300k subs back in 2003....waaaay before the MMOs hit mainstream, and you needed a.good gaming comp to play DAoC back then, and still do.

 

So 300k subs in 2003, Id say that is equal to almost a million subs in todays numbers at least. I just resubbed to DAoC and.it is MIND BLOWING how that game is way more fun and.in depth than SWtoR. The.DAoC large and smallman 8v8 RvR is straight up addicting with a very high replay factor.

 

The fact that Guild Wars 2 is practically copying alot of DAoC's RvR system(not all of it unfortunately like mass AoE CC and group speed +/stick to group leader)....is a step in the right direction for MMOs to get away from these awful WoW clones.

[gurugeorge]

Don't be so naive. How often do people pay for more than 1 MMO?

 

Of course this game was intended to compete with WoW. How else do you expect them to get people from WoW?

 

I don't think this is true at all. I think the game is somewhat WoW-like because a) there are a certain number of things that people expect since WoW, and b) BW presumably thought they ought not to re-invent the wheel, especially since they had no previous experience with MMOs.

 

What they did have experience with is immersive VO-ed storylines with occasionally interesting moral choices. That's what BW do, that's what they're known for. That's what KOTOR was. Hence, what SWTOR is is "KOTOR with mates", KOTOR with some WoW-like MMO elements tacked on (but also some other MMO elements as well).

 

I think their idea was not so much to take people away from WoW, but rather more like Blizzard's game plan when they started WoW - i.e. open up a new market of players, people who hadn't played MMOs before. (i.e., the history of WoW is that Blizz thought they could attract more people to the MMO market by streamlining EQ's gameplay - it's obviously more complex than that, but that's the gist).

 

Given that, it looks to me like BW wanted to try to make an MMO that was a BW MMO, whose strengths were BW strengths; BW hoped to emulate Blizzard's success by, like Blizzard, but in a different way, attracting people to an MMO genre who might not have been attracted before. Sure, snagging some people from other MMOs including WoW is good, but it wasn't their main focus.

 

And to some extent it's obviously worked. The people for whom this is a first MMO, or the people who haven't actually liked WoW enough to subscribe, etc., etc., are probably the people who are defending this game. Consider, for example, Yahtzee's review, where he (as someone who doesn't like MMOs generally, but liked WoW a bit) says that SWTOR is really an MMO made more for people like him, who wouldn't normally play MMOs.

 

The problem is that the non-BioWare parts of the MMO aren't good enough to retain the extra number of players over and above the newbies BW hoped to attract (the "old hands" as it were). They're good enough in terms of general idea, but they're just not good enough in detail, in depth, in implementation. The WoW bits just aren't WoW enough, they aren't as good as what people have come to expect from WoW.

 

Now, the amusing thing is that SWTOR hasn't behaved quite according to the predictions of the SWTOR-haters. It didn't tank after the first month, it's still not tanking yet. It seems that there are enough people out there who are enjoying it to keep it profitable.

 

My fear is that it's the "old hands" who have been most disappointed with the game. Yes, while you're in the story, it's helluva immersive and very cool, but when you're not in the story, the under-par nature of the MMO side (particularly, but of course not limited to, the difficulty finding teams on thinly-spread servers) is doing a fair bit of damage.

 

So really, it's kind of on a knife edge at the moment. There are obviously a lot of people who do enjoy the game, but whether that's enough to keep the game above the magic million mark, is debatable. Basically, BW took a gamble but it didn't quite pay off. Not totally disastrously, but enough for EA to lose interest and not pump more money into the game, which means, for the players, a "skeleton crew", slower updates, slower bugfixes, etc.,etc.

 

The game could be turned around, but it would take a CCP-style turnaround to do it.

 

(Oh and lots of people play more than one MMO, I usually have 2 on the boil at any given month, sometimes 3, and I hop between them a fair bit. As I hardly ever play single-player games anymore, I can afford to do this.)

Edited May 19, 2012 by gurugeorge