Can SWTOR be Saved ?

[Anvil]

Honestly i see posts like this all the time usually not long after a new MMO launches and I boggle at the presumption of the poster what askes if the game in question can be saved. Frankly I do not believe swtor is in need of "saving" as the game is not dying nor is it about to close down, run out of players, or suddenly collapse.

 

We have hit the normal lull that all A grade MMO's experiance after the initial rush of interest settles and the casual players start looking for the next new thing to play. Server merges will arrive, which is also normal and not a bad thing as any MMO of this calibre will have added additional servers to cater for the intiial flood of new players at release. None of this is unexpected, most of us have seen it before and we will see it again. We will see it with all large scale MMO launches as there is an intrinsic number of MMO players who have little or no interest in the IP of the game and will go from MMO to MMO looking to ride the new release thrill over and over again.

 

There are still well in excess of a million subscribers to swtor which in and of itself defines the game as a commercial success. Cartainly the game doesnt need saving. Yes it needs work, yes it needs content, more polish and bug fixes ect.. ect.. but once again this is normal for any MMO. None of this signifies a game in need of saving. It simply indicates that despite the hype pre-release and the size of the project, swtor is still a MMO like other MMO's subject to the same issues that plague all MMO's.

 

So in answer to your question, can SWTOR be saved? I would say no, it isnt in need of saving. Because no matter how many haters, doomsayers or players with a gripe say so the game is very much alive and kicking and there are more than enough lovers of the IP to ensure it remains so for a very long time indeed.

 

For better or worse. Only you can decide.

[siegedeluxe]

I'd agree with this even more if GW2 wasn't so PvP based. It'll have it's niche with the heavy PvP players, but I'm not sure how it'll keep the people who prefer a good balance of PvE to PvP or who enjoy PvE a bit more. The event style quests look great, but for some reason I see them ending up like they did in Warhammer or the Rift events in Rift. If there's no reason for people to do them, they won't, which tends to alienate the PvE crowd. Also, 3+ hour 5 man dungeons would get old pretty quick. 1-2 hours cool, but there has to be more of a reason to do it over and over other than for looks.

 

5 mans can be equally challenging compared to 10 or 25 mans, it simply a matter of changing your mindset. From what I've seen of dungeons, they look pretty awesome and boss fights do require tact and guile to win. Another reason to play gw2 is that PvP is NOT gear based. You can enter at level (1?) I believe and be on near equal ground against players who are way above your level.

Edited May 18, 2012 by siegedeluxe

[Kleve]

5 mans can be equally challenging compared to 10 or 25 mans, it simply a matter of changing your mindset. From what I've seen of dungeons, they look pretty awesome and boss fights do require tact and guile to win. Another reason to play gw2 is that PvP is NOT gear based. You can enter at level (1?) I believe and be on near equal ground against players who are way above your level.

 

And THAT'S something ArenaNet got right from THE VERY beginning in GW. Gear.Doesn't.Matter. Skill, build, technique, teamwork, etc DOES.

[TheNegotiator]

The game is pretty much fine. There was way too much hype to begin with and Bioware created too many servers. Summer will bring mergers which will probably cause a lot of people to come back, then 50+ story content will be released for Christmas. So 6 months from now server populations should be healthy.

[ZeketheReaper]

I believe this game can be saved by a reverse SOE overhaul patch. For example: in SWG the game had all the meta game, player driven content, amazing crafting and meaningful open world pvp that so many of us crave in the MMOs of this age but we haven't been able to fill that craving since that game and has caused us to be fickle and impatient when the games nowadays have almost none of that at release. I think that if Bioware wants this game to succeed they need to overhaul this World of Warcraft clone into more of a Star Wars Galaxies (pre-cu) clone. So basically I guess I'm asking Bioware to pull a SOE and completely change the game mechanics... I'm totally gonna get flak for suggesting this.

[NastyPagan]

Canceled my subscription. Now I'm not one of those PPL who just had a test run and start raging about the quality of release (Lev. 50 sentinel with full augmented gear) For me as a big Fan of the concept this game was just a big disappointment from the very beginning. I was really trying to like the game but everything starting from killing 100 monsters 99 time (diff skins ofc. , poor and not competitive PVP, unresponsive and bugged game mechanics, finishing with nowadays unbelievable game engine technical issues (permanent FPS issues in PVP, Leaking RAM in 21 Century seriously?) was just to much for me to handle. Now I do understand the policy behind subscription (you bought the game - now even for trying it out you have to buy more game-time even though you maybe already have enough bound to your original game purchase (I know I had!), as the game in its previous and current state was/is destined to fail (I think you know that already, but it is a shame that this bit to late) . .

 

1 - I will definitely not recommend SWTOR to anyone, especially SW fan.

2 - I will do my best that other people would not get misinformed about SWTOR as I did (but I think Bieware will do this better than me - loosing subscribers at that rate speaks for itself about the the quality of the game (and that's a FACT)).

 

The question is - can the TORtanic still be saved? Can it still compete with other recent MMO's and always rely on most dedicated Star Wars community members (play the game only for the concept) as the main source of profit - Absolutely NOT.

 

And let me ask you one more thing - would you play exactly the same game with knights and wizards instead of Jed/Sorr - I know I as well as 40% other ppl would not. Game that is only driven by the concept, has no long lasting game play value and is praising voice-overs as developers biggest achievement, from the very initial stage was and unfortunately still is designed to fail

 

So sad - so true....

[Cherly]

I don't want this post to come off as "screw star wars, this game sucks," or whatever. Im just simply curious if you guys think this game has a future anymore. With the countless bugs and glitches, customer service issues gone unanswered, dying servers, what does bioware need to do to save this game or is it already to late.

 

In my opinion from what I have witnessed is it is to late. I have been a star wars fanboy for life and have been playing TOR since launch back in December. At game launch I remember sitting in que to even get on a server, now im lucky to see 30 people on fleet during peek hours. IMO the leveling part of this game was the best. The story lines with each class were a breath of fresh air compared to traditional mmos. But once you hit 50 the lone "2" operations were laughable at best. Full of bugs that went week after week with no fixes, and "raids" that consisted of 4 bosses. It was extremely underwhelming and even nightmare mode was a breeze for my guild. We had a strong 20+ active members in our guild and consistently did 16man operations 3 times a week. About 2 weeks before 1.2 dropped is when people (at least in our guild) finally had enough. We started seeing players hardly ever logging on, and if they did they were bored in about 15 minutes. Leveling alts seemed to pass the time, until it got to the point where you were the only person on a planet while trying to level and do quests. Forget about running a 4+ heroic on a planet, because there were only about 2-3 people on the planet at any given time.

 

Patch 1.2 drops and honestly I feel that a lot of people were holding out for that patch in hopes it would breathe life into this game again, but it fell very short of doing so. The new raid was an improvement IMO from EV/ KP but, it just simply wasn't enough. The so called "legacy" system was completely useless to any of us endgame players. Its just sad how this game had been anticipated for so many years and this is the end product that we received. Not even 6months into the game and it already is on the verge of dying.

 

My question is this, What can possibly be done to save this game, what can be done to stop the bleeding of thousands of people cancelling there subs every month. Is it to late to save it ?

I hope this game can be brought back with server transfers etc... but i fear its to late, for the proof is in the pudding, I have witnessed a game where I would login to 100+ on fleet getting groups together for flashpoints, leveling, doing operations and pvp, now all i see is people complaining they have been in que for pvp for hours with nothing going on, guilds that have fallen apart due to members losing interest in this game. I truly hope bioware has a fix for this because I feel if something isn't done, and done very quickly, this game will forever be lost and chalked up to another failed attempt to compete with WoW.

 

Any input appreciated, again this thread is not a rant, i Just want to know what we need to do to save/drastically improve this game where its fun and exciting again.

 

without the SW IP.. this game is ****. i am hoping it dies real soon so someone else can have a shot at making a MMO worth the name Star Wars.

[MysteryJoker]

Here's an easy and quick save..... Axe 80 of their servers so the other 40 can be mixed between heavy and standard with a few light servers. They can always add servers later on

[JeramieCrowe]

Here's an easy and quick save..... Axe 80 of their servers so the other 40 can be mixed between heavy and standard with a few light servers. They can always add servers later on

 

That's already the plan. Although, it's 215 servers going to be culled down to probably about half that. Which is basically what you just said, only with correct numbers.

Edited May 18, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Xerkrom]

I honestly don't understand why there are so many freaking servers on the "choose server" list, they should merge a few of them, maybe the community would get better if everyone wasn't so spread out and you could actually get groups for quests and pvp.

[CaptainInsano]

Nah, this game is going down in flames and will be regarded as one of the biggest failures in MMO history. Writing is on the wall. After a 200 million dollar investment, the game sold over 2 million copies based on the Star Wars brand and the good (although recently tarnished) named of the developer. Subs are at about half of that after 5 months not counting idle subs, including the free month that was given out solely to inflate numbers for the investors. Realistically, active subs are probably below 1 million already. We're looking at thousands of more cancellation in the months between now and patch 1.3, then once players learn that 1.3 isn't adding anything significant, thousands more. Keep in mind all of these lost subs were in the absence of any new competition in the MMO space. Once Guild Wars 2 and Mists of Panderia hit, I doubt this game will keep the 500k subs needed to remain profitable. SWTOR will be lucky to see an expansion after EA guts the dev team and puts everything on life support. This is WAR all over again, which isn't surprising since BW Austin dragged some of the old WAR team along for the ride. Hopefully MMO publishers in the future won't be foolish enough to put these people in positions of authority again. If they do they have only themselves to blame.

[Sammm]

I honestly don't understand why there are so many freaking servers on the "choose server" list, they should merge a few of them, maybe the community would get better if everyone wasn't so spread out and you could actually get groups for quests and pvp.

 

It was because of the launch in December 2011. So many players (millions) wanted to play the game NOW (i.e. no queue time) and Bioware decided to add much more servers. Because of that, we ended up with 120+ US servers. After a while (it started around end of Janurary 2012), many players left the game and many servers became lightly populated.

 

Bioware decided to "solve" that problem with the upcoming free transfers + paid transfers in early summer.

 

What you're suggesting has already been suggested countless times by other forum members, myself included. My guess is they'll probably merge some servers eventually if I rely on previous mmos developments.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Sammm

[JeramieCrowe]

It was because of the launch in December 2011. So many players (millions) wanted to play the game NOW (i.e. no queue time) and Bioware decided to add much more servers. Because of that, we ended up with 120+ US servers. After a while (around end of Janurary 2012), many players left the game and many servers became lightly populated.

 

Bioware decided to "solve" that problem with the upcoming free transfers + paid transfers in early summer.

 

What you're suggesting has already been suggested countless times by other forum members, myself included. My guess is they'll probably merge some servers eventually if I rely on previous mmos developments.

 

Slight correction here: BioWare already had server transfer software ready before the game even launched. The plan was to open up a plethora of servers to negate queues, which they did astoundingly well. Not even any major bugs or crashes. Really, the best launch in MMO history.

 

Now, the stated PLAN was to cull the servers back after the much anticipated and expected launch surge dropped off, also as expected.

 

What wasn't expected was a last-minute addition to Legacy that effectively broke that software, thus postponing it for the rewrite.

 

Basically, what you're "suggesting", has been the plan all along.

Edited May 18, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Approbate]

I will continue to play until the end.

 

BioWare please do not kill this game like Sony Online Entertainment killed Star Wars Galaxies.

 

Make us all happy and fix these issues ASAP.

 

You turn this game into a F2P and you might as well become a subsidiary of Sony Online Entertainment.

[Berazad]

No MMO is perfect despite how some of it's more "zealous" fans might want you to believe. People calling it TORtanic for example, I learned awhile back that for the most part people saying that are idiotic and most likely have a million or so GW2 videos liked on their FB / Youtube accounts.

 

Seems like when ever some new MMO is coming out every other MMO instantly sucks and is dying, with GW2 on the horizon the hates turned to TOR angry GW2 fans who'll walk into that game with ridiculously high expectations and most likely end up disappointed such is the penalty for allowing yourself to be caught up in the hype.

 

I remember a post from a guy named Bashiok better known as one of the community managers over at Blizzard Entertainment, he made a post saying that these days people allow themselves to be caught in the hype and that people's expectations are to high these days which is completely correct.

 

People got it into their heads that this game would be a WoW killer, these people these extremely thick people are part of the problem all MMOs suffer from these days most companies are realistic SWTOR was realistic about it but people simply don't care or think to care hating is simply easier.

 

But don't get me wrong this game certainly has its share of problems as all games do but right now they could solve the majority of their problems by merging the low population realms. The game has a future but if it was left to the mindless haters then every MMO right now on the market would be dead.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Berazad

[pilotjosh]

Realistically, active subs are probably below 1 million already. We're looking at thousands of more cancellation in the months between now and patch 1.3, then once players learn that 1.3 isn't adding anything significant, thousands more.

Yeah, the last reports from bioware is they were claiming a loss from 1.7 million subs to 1.3 and that was back in March, what people and or bioware arent taking into account is the included play time from the box users 60 days is it? and also they are going by subs and not active players, When the next quarter comes out its going to be eye opening several websights and mmo critics sites, are claiming that they data they have been gathering from the dailys SERVER Population (the actual people playing there subs) is estimating the true active community somwhere around 600k now and still falling, so when next statement comes out from bioware and they claim to go from 1.3 million down to 600k they are dangerously close to the 500k sub threshold they need to keep this game profitable (using biowares own words) so im curious when those #s get released just to see how bad it really has gotten in the last 60 days

Edited May 18, 2012 by pilotjosh

[pilotjosh]

 

 

And let me ask you one more thing - would you play exactly the same game with knights and wizards instead of Jed/Sorr - I know I as well as 40% other ppl would not. Game that is only driven by the concept, has no long lasting game play value and is praising voice-overs as developers biggest achievement, from the very initial stage was and unfortunately still is designed to fail

 

So sad - so true....

 

spot on right with that quote, if this game didnt have jedis, imperials and wookies, people would not be so quick to defend it saying its a great game, and isnt in need of "saving" if it my juggernaut was reskinned in ORC gear people would actually see this game for what it really is.....

[Berazad]

spot on right with that quote, if this game didnt have jedis, imperials and wookies, people would not be so quick to defend it saying its a great game, and isnt in need of "saving" if it my juggernaut was reskinned in ORC gear people would actually see this game for what it really is.....

Agreeing with people who hate on the game? Do you seriously expect anyone to take a person such as you seriously? Tell me why did you make this thread if your goal was to spread discord? You're part of the problem infecting gaming communities these days.

[kmufc]

My time card runs out in around 15 days i think, been here since early beta 2011.

 

I wont be renewing a sub or time card which is sad as i like the game.

 

The main reason for me leaving is the abysmal game engine this game uses, i should get no big frame drops and random stuttering. For - 5-6 months ive done every i can to make the performance better, i will not waste my time any more with logging in to find one day performance is ok and the next day its a stuttering mess.

 

Bioware's communication is also a major issue for me as well as the CS, i have submitted many tickets since beta and only received back automated responses with the ticket then closed and not had single reply back regarding my problems/ question with the game, this game has by far the worst support with any game ive played by far.

 

Patches seem to either make the games performance worse for me, or the so called devs break other things with the game, this has happened many times now, not good enough im afraid.

 

And lastly server population, BW has left this too late, this should have been a priority and you should have had a backup plan in place for when you released the game that server transfers/ merges could be available straight away. Blaming the overrated Legacy system for the reason why transfers are taking so long is not good enough.

 

I dont honestly think i could trust buying a BW game ever again after SWTOR

 

I could moan some more, but everything ive listed has been mentioned tons of times anyway.

 

To answer the OP question, no, i think this game is past saving, which is a real shame.

Edited May 18, 2012 by kmufc

[Berazad]

My time card runs out in around 15 days i think, been here since early beta 2011.

 

I wont be renewing a sub or time card which is sad as i like the game.

 

The main reason for me leaving is the abysmal game engine this game uses, i should get no big frame drops and random stuttering. For - 5-6 months ive done every i can to make the performance better, i will not waste my time any more with logging in to find one day performance is ok and the next day its a stuttering mess.

 

Bioware's communication is also a major issue for me as well as the CS, i have submitted many tickets since beta and only received back automated responses with the ticket then closed and not had single reply back regarding my problems/ question with the game, this game has by far the worst support with any game ive played by far.

 

Patches seem to either make the games performance worse for me, or the so called devs break other things with the game, this has happened many times now, not good enough im afraid.

 

And lastly server population, BW has left this too late, this should have been a priority and you should have had a backup plan in place for when you released the game that server transfers/ merges could be available straight away. Blaming the overrated Legacy system for the reason why transfers are taking so long is not good enough.

 

I dont honestly think i could trust buying a BW game ever again after SWTOR

 

I could moan some more, but everything ive listed has been mentioned tons of times anyway.

 

To answer the OP question, no, i think this game is past saving, which is a real shame.

To an extent i agree with you on the topic of server population they are doing an abysmal job to address it and they'll only suffer for it. As for the rest i cannot say I've had performance issues that's effected my gameplay.

 

I also agree that the legacy system is over rated they seemed to of hyped this but delivered so little.

[Strages]

Probably can't be "saved", I don't know where the so called million subs are, but even the handful of high pop servers only have at best 1000 people at prime time from what I've seen. My Diablo 3 game(4 whole players) has more players in it than my swtor server does and is probably comparable to the other bottom 80 or whatever crazy amount of servers.

[MbaxterBeau]

The game will only get better and grow.

[Swaggz]

I agree, I have a feeling if drastic changes aren't implemented quickly, there going to have no choice but to go F2P to keep servers alive, cuz at this rate, nobody wants to pay 15$ a month to level a toon in 3 days, and sit around waiting for them to give us new content.

 

If you level a toon in 3 days, then that's your own fault. Go outside and get some sun!!!! lol. Honestly, I think they have more than enough content for a 6 month old game. 3 raids, 4 Warzones, quite a few Flashpoints, etc. Ilum turned out to be a bust, but eh. The major problem is everything else. No character copy system to allow the majority of us to test 1.2. Very few actually tested the heavy handed nerfs done to most classes and they didn't have enough on the PTS to even test ranked Warzones. There's very little to no Dev communication. Even the Dev Tracker and the Q&A seem to only answer "softball" questions. EA/BW is slow to react, yet quick to blame. The CTD issue post 1.2 is the perfect example of this. They seemed to be quick to blame the problem on the customers PC's, yet after 3 weeks they release a patch to fix the problem, which was on their end, and ended up breaking even more. That right there I think is the main problem. Everytime they release a patch to fix something, it ends up breaking more things than it fixed. I know there's going to be bugs in the game, but when they cause more and more with each patch, there seems to be an issue.

 

5 mans can be equally challenging compared to 10 or 25 mans, it simply a matter of changing your mindset. From what I've seen of dungeons, they look pretty awesome and boss fights do require tact and guile to win. Another reason to play gw2 is that PvP is NOT gear based. You can enter at level (1?) I believe and be on near equal ground against players who are way above your level.

 

I guess I'll have to change my mindset but 5 mans just don't seem as big as an 8-10 man would feel. I'm sure the fights would be great, but it just seems small. I do like how there'll be no PvP gear but if there's no real difference in gear outside the looks then what exactly is the "carrot" factor in this game? (Serious question since quite a few keep talking about GW2, so it can't help but peak some interest)

[NastyPagan]

The game will only get better and grow.

 

Power of brainwash - these are not the Jedi's you are looking for.

It is time to take of those pink sunglasses and look at the actual quality of the product. (I heard 90s called they want their textures back).

[Darkrite]

With the summer transfers, will legacy be transferred with your character? It wasn't for the aussie servers...

 

Most likely the flaw in all of this, and the defining reason that server merges are not present is that legacy names were server bound, as are first names, instead of account binding legacy names. Which is possibly another reason that your legacy doesn't transfer to another server. Design flaw that should have been handled during development.

 

Trying to merge with two conflicts like that (instead of the typical one conflict of a first name) is apparently a cesspool for disaster. Why? No idea. I started a thread earlier seeing if people would be willing to relinquish their legacy names and first names for that very reason. I personally would give both up to merge my dying server with another.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Darkrite