[Guide-Video] Shinarika 9 and Introduction to 23/1/17 and 13/28 "Arika" Hybrid

[Xinika]

I'm sold, will you marry me?

 

I'm already engaged, sorry ! But I hope you find the information useful.

 

Very very nice videos.

Sorry for my english but is it possible to explain the rotation for

Both builds ?

I try to understand but i 'm a noob and i like original builds.

Thanks a lot for your answer.

 

For 23/1/17, you basically want to use Force in Balance> Project> Double-Strike> Shadow Strike (On Proc)> Rinse and Repeat DS preferably to keep getting procs of Particle Acceleration. Project should be almost immediately used when it's up.

 

0/13/28 is FiB > Breach > Project > Double Strike > Shadow Strike (On Proc). Best part about this build is the great flexibility in it's useage and no "real" set order. So let's say you go with this order, then this is the burst order. After this order is complete, you can start using DSx2 for circling shadows w/ project to maintain stability and DPS upkeep.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Xinika

[KetchumA]

I think you might be the best shadow/assassin I've seen play this game. I like the fact that you keep trying different specs. Just a quick question, what kind of gear setup are you looking at for each spec?

[Kllashaa]

0/13/28 is FiB > Breach > Project > Double Strike > Shadow Strike (On Proc). Best part about this build is the great flexibility in it's useage and no "real" set order. So let's say you go with this order, then this is the burst order. After this order is complete, you can start using DSx2 for circling shadows w/ project to maintain stability and DPS upkeep.

This is probably the best spec I've seen you propose. I like it for the following reasons:

• Internal damage on FiB and FB.
  
  
• Heavy reliance on force damage.
  
  
• Good mix between 4m, 10m, and 30m range attacks.
  
  
• Easy force management.
  
  
• Swapping Spinning Kick (Stasis) for instant Force Lift (pro - Force Lift range; con - killer on resolve bars, especially around pugs).
  
  
• Pairs well with the 4p Stalker set bonus.
  
  
• Not telegraphed unlike 31 Infiltration and 31 KC. You can see the damage from both 31 specs coming a mile away, and it's annoying getting KBed through Resilience. 31 Balance Sage/Shadows are not scary due to the predictability of the setup and lack of burst.
  
  
• Can't be cleansed.
  
  
• Kiting friendly, especially with 2p Stalker + 15% movement bonus.
  
  

 

 

I haven't tried the spec yet, but on paper, it looks competitive with 31 Infiltration for filling a DPS role, particularly given that you can spend most of the fight at Powertech range.

 

The places where I'd be tempted to switch points would be:

• One point out of Circling Shadows and into Masked Assault. DPS Shadows and Assassins get blown-up immediately on my server, and getting rid of the healing debuff on Force Cloak and having on-demand force regen with Blackout seems useful to enable chaining FiB -> Project -> Force Breach -> DS/SS -> Project -> Spinning Strike without running out of force.
  
  
• Celerity to Security Breach for more frequent internal damage. This is bias on my part, as my server has a lot of heavy armor types running around.
  
  
• Possibly find a way to fit Shadowy Veil in. Boosting armor rating from Light to Medium rating definitely helps, especially with how fast TTK is now.
  
  

 

 

How does 13/28 do in duels vs competent 31 KC/Darkness dps-geared tanks?

Edited May 17, 2012 by Kllashaa

[OysterCatcherr]

Ok, I have spent a day or so using the 13/28 build and it gets a solid OK from me.

 

I am doing about 40% less damage than I was with my previous 7/3/31 balance build. What I will say though is that bursting healers down is a fair bit easier - WHEN I have force potency. When FP is on cooldown, I find I am much less useful damage-wise, and my decreased survivability becomes more of a problem.

 

I disagree with Shinarika that this is a particularly interesting build to play. As she says, it is essentially FiB, FB, Project, DoubleStrike, ShadowStrike - much different from the almost entirely situational full balance play. That said, adding shadowstrikes into my game is fun, and the damage done with increased points put into the infil tree is pretty damn good.

 

Improved stealth and stealth speed is an absolute boon on all maps, but especially in huttball. I found I was much more useful being able to slip past nearby foes with much less chance of being detected. I really miss the 30m root though, it meant I was much more useful defensively and it was much harder for enemies to kite me.

 

All in all I would say it is a decent spec. I am definitely going to continue trying it out over the next couple of days, and see if I can redress some of the faults I have found through practise. That said, full balance is still much more fun for me, and I find I do a lot more damage with it too (and I am not a tab forcebreach spammer),

[Kllashaa]

I am doing about 40% less damage than I was with my previous 7/3/31 balance build. What I will say though is that bursting healers down is a fair bit easier - WHEN I have force potency. When FP is on cooldown, I find I am much less useful damage-wise, and my decreased survivability becomes more of a problem.

 

I disagree with Shinarika that this is a particularly interesting build to play. As she says, it is essentially FiB, FB, Project, DoubleStrike, ShadowStrike - much different from the almost entirely situational full balance play.

I agree that high-end Balance play has a lot more going on. I've been looking for an alternative to 31Infil for a front-loaded burst spec, as I've been seeing a lot of healers and dps tanks, but not much in the way of good DPS.

 

Do you find yourself holding onto your FB, FiB, etc., rather than using them on CD? You might be getting better numbers on Balance because you're used to using the abilities more indiscriminately. I tend to find Balance and Madness players pour out as much damage as possible, and let other DPS seal the kills.

 

My biggest complaint about the build is the same one you have; it's just not that deep to play. My gut instinct also tells me that a 35% crit/75% surge/rest into power stat balance is probably preferable, to get to 40% crit and to maximize non-force attacks (DS/SS) which don't benefit from FP. That makes the downtime between the skills less onerous. The key abilities are on the following CDs, which still seems slow:

FB - 15s or 12s (talented)

FiB - 15s

Project - 6s

 

As a point of comparison, Watchmen Sentinels are on the following, which benefit from persistent damage:

Cauterize - 15s / refreshable

Overload Saber - 12s

Merciless Slash - 12s / 10.5s / 9s

 

I guess there's DS/SS filler in between, but even with the Infiltration Tactics proc, I don't find SS doing significant damage except on light armor. 3/3 Technique Mastery would help a bit with that, but not at the cost of losing 3/3 Mental Scarring.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Kllashaa

[Kllashaa]

Adding in a spec (7/17/17) which Koskilicious proposed in the 'put your spec to the test' thread, which I think looks clearly superior to 13/28, and is similar to a tri-spec I've been working on. You lose the awesome FiB AOE crits, but gain a boatload of survivability. I really love 20s Force Speed.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McMZrGbRz0MZf0cRrM.1

 

Compared to 0/13/28:

 

Loses:

- 30% crit damage on FiB

- 10% damage to melee (TD)

- Dot damage buff that only benefits teammates & +1 force whenever a dot hits on a FiB target

- 15% damage reduction on dots

 

Gains:

- 20s Force Speed (from 30s)

- 45s Resilience (from 60s)

- 45s Blackout (from 60s)

- +50% force regen on Blackout

- Can be healed through Force Cloak

- 2m Force Cloak (from 3m)

- Medium Armor equivalency through Shadowy Veil

- +6% damage buff on DS & 9% armor pen (seems like it would effectively replace TD and have 100% uptime)

- 9% armor pen would also benefit kinetic attacks (seems the consensus is that armor does mitigate kinetic/elemental attacks?)

 

I think we might be onto something

Edited May 17, 2012 by Kllashaa

[Xinika]

Adding in a spec (7/17/17) which Koskilicious proposed in the 'put your spec to the test' thread, which I think looks clearly superior to 13/28, and is similar to a tri-spec I've been working on. You lose the awesome FiB AOE crits, but gain a boatload of survivability. I really love 20s Force Speed.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McMZrGbRz0MZf0cRrM.1

 

Compared to 0/13/28:

 

Loses:

- 30% crit damage on FiB

- 10% damage to melee (TD)

- Dot damage buff that only benefits teammates & +1 force whenever a dot hits on a FiB target

- 15% damage reduction on dots

 

Gains:

- 20s Force Speed (from 30s)

- 45s Resilience (from 60s)

- 45s Blackout (from 60s)

- +50% force regen on Blackout

- Can be healed through Force Cloak

- 2m Force Cloak (from 3m)

- Medium Armor equivalency through Shadowy Veil

- +6% damage buff on DS & 9% armor pen (seems like it would effectively replace TD and have 100% uptime)

- 9% armor pen would also benefit non-internal attacks (seems the consensus is that armor does mitigate non-internal force/tech attacks?)

 

I think we're onto something

 

I won't say superior, just seems like a tradeoff of damage for defense and trading Burst for DPS. Which ends up defeating the purpose behind the build, which is to pursue a consistent flow of heavy burst damage. I have yet to try this one that's presented, but, from what I have done on my experimenting with this class so far, anything outside Combat-Technique builds that's struggling for defense always falls short. The only makeup for it is damage and heavy damage at that.

 

I'll give it a shot since it's in the other thread already.

Also, why not this?

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McZuGbRZfbcRrR0b.1

 

That gives the benefits of being melee heavy-damage, however my issue with melee damage is that it's subjected to deflects/armour. Best part about internal/kinetic damage is the ability to bypass these defenses.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Xinika

[Pizzel]

The 13/28 is an awesome spec IMO. To me I put up very consistent nice burst damage. Not as bursty as full Infiltration but there is no wind up for the burst. I am putting up very high numbers with it. 500k easy in matches that end early. I think in some long drawn out Hutt or voidstar 700k with a lot of kbs is doable. Now damage isn't everything. I'm a big believer of that.

 

I have had a harder time in 1v1s against certain classes. Particularly another shadow and especially marauder. If they get lots of high crits before I do I'm toast. Then the problem is escape. If force lift, slip away and speed is on cd I'm toast. It is rare but does happen in a hectic match. I would say if u like to Rambo this isn't the spec for u. But if u wanna be more of a battle sage and run with groups u can really contribute to downing healers and wiping the other team repeatedly.

 

Also I don't raid much but when I do dps I think this will be my spec. I need to parse or see someone's test but I think with all the disconnects for melee in this game I think it can be a superior raid build to full Inf.

 

Now I'm not that experienced with full balance so it could be much better for PVE. Any clarification would be welcome to me.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Pizzel

[Kllashaa]

I won't say superior, just seems like a tradeoff of damage for defense and trading Burst for DPS. Which ends up defeating the purpose behind the build, which is to pursue a consistent flow of heavy burst damage.

 

I'll give it a shot since it's in the other thread already.

Also, why not this?

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McZuGbRZfbcRrR0b.1

Interesting spec. I'd imagine you could get some hefty DS/SS crits through that. On one hand, you lose the big burst from FiB (4p Stalker, FP into FiB->FB->Project for 1v1s is really nice), but on the other hand:

- DS/SS/Project will be hitting harder with Technique Mastery

- DS will be hitting harder with Applied Force

 

I'm ambivalent between 2/3 and 3/3 Infiltration tactics. I played 27/1/13 for awhile so I'm used to dealing with 1 IT. I recently switched to 2/3 IT and the proc is up very frequently, and last night, procced itself again.

[Xinika]

The 13/28 is an awesome spec IMO. To me I put up very consistent nice burst damage. Not as bursty as full Infiltration but there is no wind up for the burst. I am putting up very high numbers with it. 500k easy in matches that end early. I think in some long drawn out Hutt or voidstar 700k with a lot of kbs is doable. Now damage isn't everything. I'm a big believer of that.

 

I have had a harder time in 1v1s against certain classes. Particularly another shadow and especially marauder. If they get lots of high crits before I do I'm toast. Then the problem is escape. If force lift, slip away and speed is on cd I'm toast. It is rare but does happen in a hectic match. I would say if u like to Rambo this isn't the spec for u. But if u wanna be more of a battle sage and run with groups u can really contribute to downing healers and wiping the other team repeatedly.

 

Also I don't raid much but when I do dps I think this will be my spec. I need to parse or see someone's test but I think with all the disconnects for melee in this game I think it can be a superior raid build to full Inf.

 

Now I'm not that experienced with full balance so it could be much better for PVE. Any clarification would be welcome to me.

 

Another thing to mention about 13/28 is that it favours a very, shall we say... seductive playstyle? You have to be smart to know how to make your way around with it. Baiting enemies and popping up behind healers to unleash hell. This is a high offense build with a low defensive output. It's geared for players who can handle that power output and understand their weaknesses defensively. I'm a very tactical-offensive player. I tend to lure enemies to their unpredictable deaths.

 

It doesn't play like Balance.

It doesn't play like Infil.

It doesn't play like KC.

 

Perhaps some of you may need more time or it's just not the right style for you. Outside the pitiful survivability of infil, the burst was FAR too predictable. Anyone knows how and when to shut down an infiltration Shadow, the playstyle of it is so one-dimensional and easily counterable. 13/28 provides you with being unpredictable and in PvP, being unpredictable is the #1 thing.

[Boarg]

Some comments on the hybrid specs getting mentioned... 0/13/28 and also the 7/17/17.

 

 

First, I would just note they're not really "new" ideas necessarily…both have been hashed out and tried by other folks in the past. What's new at least for 0/13/28 is someone skilled making a good video of it.

 

 

0/13/28:

 

The main advantage of the spec is really the offensive playstyle more than anything else. There's lots of buttons to push that all pop out a fairly big number. It has low setup because FiB and Breach can be used any time they aren't on CD, but there's still some because Project is still pretty terrible damage/force in that spec without circling shadows stacks (2x Double Strike) and you're generally going to need to use Double Strike or Saber Strike to have Find Weakness procs available.

 

The downside is honestly it isn't competive overall sustained damage with either Balance or even Infiltration. Even though it has several seemingly good buttons, the damage/force of those options is less than what the pure specs get. In other words, it can't get as much damage out of a given amount of force, and we're a force limited class. Widening the gap is that it has less force than either of the pure specs because it doesn't have Profundity, nor can utilize Sharpened Mind at all (no dots). No One with the Force, either. So, in the long run, it has less force and gets mildly less total damage out of the force it does have.

 

It's just good in 4 and 5 GCD windows going in with a full bar…less or more than that, and it falls behind damage wise.

 

The other thing that personally bothers me a lot is that nearly any PvP spec must have either Slow Time, Subduing Techniques, or Sever Force. Otherwise, it's a utility gimp spec that relies on teammates for control instead of being a control provider. It's much more valuable to be a control provider than a control moocher. Vanilla Force Slow alone is pretty much garbage.

 

 

7/17/17:

 

It suffers from all the same issues as 0/13/28, except that it's worse. Tier 1 of Kinetic tree is very weak on value, except for Technique Mastery being solid only for specs that run Force Technique. Elusiveness is good, but it's not worth burning 5 points in tier 1 to reach it. Kinetic tree's high value skills are in tiers 3 through 5, and a little at the top.

 

 

 

Anyway…I'm not saying these are bad specs. A skilled player could definitely play with with lots of success and fun. A player could definitely find them preferrable to play even because of playstyle and fun. I'm just saying they can't objectively keep up with the pure specs. The only hybrid spec that legitimately keeps pace with pures in overall value is the 23/x/1x variations.

[Boarg]

...infil, the burst was FAR too predictable. Anyone knows how and when to shut down an infiltration Shadow, the playstyle of it is so one-dimensional and easily counterable. ...

 

Honestly, I have to put that on the shoulders of the Infiltration player. It's their choice whether or not to go predictable or not.

 

I actually use it to my advantage when playing Infiltration to bait people into doing things... Like, 2x CS on a Kinetic tank, and bait their Resilience CD. I can then CC their CD away with Low Slash, or damage them with weapon damage abilities like Shadow Strike, Saber Strike (to build procs and Force), and have my big hitters still ready with Force Potency knowing they are now protected from being countered.

 

I usually have a real solid feel for which players will try to do anything to counter me...fact is, most don't have enough awareness, sadly.

 

The other thing is, lots of times, there isn't much opposing players can do to counter in a WZ setting even if they do know it's coming. Their AC may not really even have a legit counter or the few they do have are on CD already.

[Boarg]

Also, here's another variation of the same playstyle as those two other hybrids...

 

0/24/17

 

The main advantages are:

 

More Force (Profundity)

More Control (Subduing Techniques + Low Slash + Containment)

More Survivability (Kinetic Field + Shadowy Veil + Jedi Resistance)

 

 

It gives up a tad of burst compared to Shin's version losing some melee bonus and FiB crit multiplier boost, however it does offset that with some Exit Strategy stacks for bigger Breaches. However, out it should actually do more sustained/total damage due to having more Force. In practice, the superior control will boost real world damage quite a bit....as well as theoretically being alive longer.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Boarg

[Kllashaa]

I actually use it to my advantage when playing Infiltration to bait people into doing things... Like, 2x CS on a Kinetic tank, and bait their Resilience CD. I can then CC their CD away with Low Slash, or damage them with weapon damage abilities like Shadow Strike, Saber Strike (to build procs and Force), and have my big hitters still ready with Force Potency knowing they are now protected from being countered.

This might've been realistic pre-1.2, but with the operative and scoundrel buffs, I'm regularly seeing 2-3 WH geared operative healers when a wz has 2-4 premades in it (not uncommon on my server). Due to how the mechanics work, you've got about a 1-2 second window to kill before that operative healer is right back up to 70%+ health. Competent sage healers are getting more and more uncommon. Unless BW reworks the expertise and healing formulae, front-loaded burst on demand and teams that know how to assist spike damage is now the name of the game.

 

Having played on a few servers, though, the level of competition on most servers is so low that the above likely only applies to the handful of competitive pvp communities remaining (Swiftsure, Fatman, etc.).

 

I don't think your assessment of 7/17/17 is accurate, either. If you look at my pros/cons list above, the only significant damage you lose from 13/28 is +30% crit damage on FiB and +10% melee damage on TD. The melee damage is made up for in the 1st tier of the KC tree, and 7/17/17 gains drastically reduced cds down the board on virtually all generic defensive/utility abilities.

 

Against really good opposition, the challenge with any non-combat technique spec is having enough balance between damage and cds, so that you don't need to be babysat for half the wz. That's what makes sentinels so strong, and why 31infil shadows are falling increasingly out of favor.

 

That said, I agree with your point that 31Infil should be the baseline we compare damage specs against. I am not a fan of balance due to the lack of burst. High-level organized PVP play is about front-loaded spike damage through assist trains, not pressure damage.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Kllashaa

[Boarg]

This might've been realistic pre-1.2, but with the operative and scoundrel buffs, I'm regularly seeing 2-3 WH geared operative healers when a wz has 2-4 premades in it (not uncommon on my server). Due to how the mechanics work, you've got about a 1-2 second window to kill before that operative healer is right back up to 70%+ health. Competent sage healers are getting more and more uncommon. Unless BW reworks the expertise and healing formulae, front-loaded burst on demand and teams that know how to assist spike damage is now the name of the game.

 

Having played on a few servers, though, the level of competition on most servers is so low that the above likely only applies to the handful of competitive pvp communities remaining (Swiftsure, Fatman, etc.). ...

 

Well, I guess you can say it's not realistic, but I do it everyday playing Infiltration, so I don't think there's any way you could convince me that what I'm doing isn't actually happening. As for the healer specific situation, I generally handle that with target switches. I don't just telegraph to the healer that I'm about the burst them (unless there's nothing they will be able to do about it.) I'll burn on one of their dps or their tank first to do any needed setup, then hard swap to the healer with all my procs up and CD's up...they have no warning whatsoever and are busy healing other targets. The other option is to hold back while doing the setup...do just enough to get them to use up their tools getting themselves back up to full, and then lay the real burst into them after their good stuff is gone.

 

I don't think your assessment of 7/17/17 is accurate, either. If you look at my pros/cons list above, the only significant damage you lose from 13/28 is +30% crit damage on FiB and +10% melee damage on TD. The melee damage is made up for in the 1st tier of the KC tree, and 7/17/17 gains drastically reduced cds down the board on virtually all generic defensive/utility abilities.

 

Against really good opposition, the challenge with any non-combat technique spec is having enough balance between damage and cds, so that you don't need to be babysat for half the wz. That's what makes sentinels so strong, and why 31infil shadows are falling increasingly out of favor.

 

That said, I agree with your point that 31Infil should be the baseline we compare damage specs against. I am not a fan of balance due to the lack of burst. High-level organized PVP play is about front-loaded spike damage through assist trains, not pressure damage.

 

This part is all reasonably debatable, and mostly hinges on how a particular player executes.

 

That said, the main power of these builds are chaining Breach and FiB without any hard setup constraints other than just being off CD. The first teir of Kinetic talents does nothing for this, and are low value/point in any case. They're not even banging on the door of being 1%/point skills for sustained damage. I think you're probably overvaluing them. Yes, the cooldown reductions really are good. But, cooldown reductions of that sort don't boost your maximum possible effectiveness. It's kinda like the Power vs. Crit arguments. One spec boosts floor performance (no CD's) and max performance (biggest results with CD's) while the other gives CD's more often. I tend to get better WZ results with the earlier because of how WZ dynamics flow...it gives a stronger initial clash, and then roll with numbers advantage from there. The later tends to be better for WZ's that you are already losing.

[Kllashaa]

Good points. Wzs are a lot about momentum, and I can see an argument both for maximizing front-loaded burst vs. losing a bit on the damage to drop all your cds by 10-25%. A player at 1% deals just as much damage as someone at 100%, and every wz, I see situations where if I could've hit 1k harder, that player would be dead instead of casting a heal or another 4k damage ability. The preference also probably depends on whether the player solo or premade queues a lot. 13/28 would be more tempting in premade setting, while 7/17/17 and other variants may be better solo.

 

I hope they manage to get cross-server ELO wzs in before the end of the year. I play and played regularly with people considered to be the best PVPers on Ajunta Pall (RP-PVP) and Swiftsure (PVP), and the style of play and competency of players on both servers are markedly different, even despite famous players on Ajunta Pall like Taugrim. It makes apples-to-apples comparisons on these kinds of posts difficult, since one server regularly has people queueing in raid gear and 200 expertise, while the other has multiple premades of full WHs who are pretty good at taunting, peeling, and spiking. It's amazing how different the style of PVP play varies by server.

 

I'm getting a bit bored of 31KC, so I'll probably experiment with some of the hybrid infil/balance builds, as I don't like playing 31Infil without a guard. I will say that 30-35% unbuffed crit seems important on a hybrid DPS spec, as a lot of its strength comes from consistent and heavy bursts of internal and kinetic damage; even on a 75s CD, I don't like being too reliant on force potency, which is one of my annoyances about DPS-geared 31KC.

 

For me, anyway, the hybrid DPS spec is interesting since it allows for 10m play, just like a Powertech. It's too bad Force Slow is so lousy on a Shadow. At least with 2p Stalker, FB, Project, and FiB, I can kite Sents around.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Kllashaa

[Xinika]

Just a heads up, 13/28 is very good 1on1. Seeing posts about being afraid v mara/pt and you absolutely should not be as 13/28.

[anstalt]

Spent last night pvping with the Arika build. Its was certainly very interesting, will play it a bit longer and see how I feel but here is initial feedback (i mainly play 5/33/3 inf):

 

1) I miss low slash! Whilst I've gained force-lift as an easy to use CC, it uses up too much resolve so when fighting healers this is quite a bad thing (unless they are bad...)

 

2) Loving FiB but it feels like padding for warzone numbers. Didn't manage to get in to a voidstar, was mostly huttball last night but I was easily getting 300k+ in huttball whilst focusing on objectives. However, I didn't feel like I was killing people easier, in an average fight it was more a case of using FiB instead of project, but both had similar damage. Obviously helped in AoE situations but on a 15s CD it isn't that great, a single Sage/Sorc healer negates the damage.

 

3) Force Management. Better short term, worse medium term. Due to lower cost of double-strike, force management was easier in the short term. However, I missed not being able to use blackout! So, longer fights I felt quite force starved compared to inf.

 

4) Less Burst. think this will come down to practice but without +30% to project (from CS) and without exit strategy, my burst was substantially less. With no healers to interfere it didn't matter, I'd still kill them, but when healers were involved it was easier for them to heal through my damage as it was more spread out rather than all front-loaded on project / fb

 

 

I'm looking forwards to getting in to some voidstars and seeing what I can do. Definitely not a pve build but was fun in pvp last night.

[FMLDestroyer]

Well, it's at least half-way comforting that infiltration hasn't slipped their minds. That spec could use more help than any of the other two right now.

 

QFT, I will weep with joy the day full infil isn't garbage anymore. It's the spec I wanted to play when I rolled shadow.

[Illyean]

tried 23/1/17 last night and was very pleased, had not played my shadow for some time and he is only in vanilla BM survivor gear but even so this spec seemed to play well for me

[Siouve]

Hello i'm french and Iloveyour vid I played 23/3/15 and I switch to 0/13/28 recently after watched your vid. I think this spec is the most interresting spec because use internal damage and has good burst + the Aoe force in balance.

But I have a question:effect "increasing the amount of damage the targets suffer from your next 10 periodic damaging abilities by 20%. Lasts 30 seconds" of force suppression it is considered whith the damage of shadow technique.

Sorry for the mistakes

Thank's

[Xinika]

tried 23/1/17 last night and was very pleased, had not played my shadow for some time and he is only in vanilla BM survivor gear but even so this spec seemed to play well for me

 

Yeah, I'm definitely seeing 23/1/17 for competitive PvP. It's a very powerful spec.

[Phlem]

Quick question for you Shin.

 

What do you think about taking 1 point out of Mind Ward and putting it into Force Strike? It would seem to me that it would work out better having a proc instant cast Mind Crush to go in conjunction with Force Suppression increasing periodic damage?

[Xinika]

Quick question for you Shin.

 

What do you think about taking 1 point out of Mind Ward and putting it into Force Strike? It would seem to me that it would work out better having a proc instant cast Mind Crush to go in conjunction with Force Suppression increasing periodic damage?

 

You're not using Force Technique, so it's not possible for that proc.

[Superstaroo]

Can I ask about the 23 1 17...

Why WOULDNT I drop 1 in force lift and force pull.. and add those points in shadow strike or get better force regen. Would the latter allow me more hits with project or ss and give more burst??

 

Force lift is still alright at 4 seconds.And personally I don't use force pull too often through choice